DEPUTATIONS TO MINISTERS. The Rotorua Railway. The Land Endowment Question. (From the Auckland " Star.") February 25.

Te Aroha News, Volume I, Issue 39, 1 March 1884, Page 3

DEPUTATIONS TO MINISTERS. The Rotorua Railway. The Land Endowment Question. (From the Auckland " Star.") February 25.

A deputation from the above Company, consisting of Dr. Campbell, Messrs T. Peacock, M.H.R., J. M. Clark, Thos. Morrin, John Batger (diroctors), and Jas. Stewart (Managing Engineer), waited upon the Hons. W. Rolleston (Minister ot Lands) and J. Bryce (Native Minister) at the Crown Lands Office this morning, for the purpose of discussing with the Ministers the questions raised in the Company's memo, dated 7th ult., and getting an answer thereto. That memorandum was as follows : — "(1) In view of the altered state of the native mind pointing to a willingness to sell land now included in the district under the Thermial Springs Act, thus enabling Government to acquire sufficient land to grant to the Railway 30 tier cent, of the cost of construction, the directors propose that Government enter into a contracc with the Company for the construction of the second section of the railway on the basis of the Company receiving from Go vernmen t land equal to 30 per cent, of the cost of construction, in accordance -with the Railway Construction and Land Act. (2) Inasmuch as the second section passes almost entirely | through native territory which cannot be rated, and such rate being lost to the Company, it is submitted that Government is justified in making good the deficiency thus arising by an extra endowment of land, the power to grant such being covered by the Thermal Springs Act; the Government, therefore, to endeavour to acquire from the natives a free cession of land by way of endowment in lieu of rates ; and in the event of the natives declining to grant such endowments without some payment, the Company to provide the funds necessary to fulfil the conditions under which the natives are willing to cede such endowments. (3) The directors beg to be informed whether the Government will be prepared to carry out the proposal now submitted, as it is necessary to arrive at a definite conclusion.— From the directors of the Thames Valley and Rotorua Railway Company (Limited). Auckland, January 7, ISS4." Dr. Campbell, who introduced the deputation, said that they had been appointed with the object of obtaining an answer to the memo, which had been forwarded to the Government. That morning it was true that they had received a letter stating that the Government could not reply until the Ministers returned to Wellington, but as the deputation had been appointed prior to its receipt, they thought it best under the circumstances to seek an interview. They now wished to furnish any further information that might be required, to elicit from the Ministers an expression of their opinion w ith regard to the points set forth in the memorandum. After some further preliminary and ex1 planatory remarks on both sides of no par- ! ticular moment, The Hon. Mr Rolleston said that he was very glad to meet the directors of the Company, and he had no doubt that if they approached the questions they had raised in the way he desired to see them approached, the interview could not but prove to be mutually beneficial. In the first place, he would be happy to explain the position in which the matter now stood. The main feature of the question was the possibility of obtaining a cession of land from the natives. As the Company was aware, the Government had made attempts by means of interviews with the natives, and through having an officer resident for many weeks in their district, to endeavour to obtain cessions of land, and, as often happened in the course of negotiations with the natives, the definite result aimed at, and which the Company desired, was found to be not easily attainable. The Government had been doing its utmost to get settled the question of endowment by cession, but at the same time it had taken other steps to promote the construction of the railway by obtaining, as the Company already knew, a cession of land for the line by purchase. He was pleased to be able to say that, barring the unfortunate point of promptitude which was almost an impossibility in these things, the Govei'nment had progressed steadily, and he thought surely also to some ultimate solution of the difficulty. They had acquired a block of 5,000 acres at Rotorua, and also had a large interest in other blocks. Of course it could not deal with land which did not belong to it, anl he was willing, when the question had progressed to that point that it could deal with the Company, to favourably consider the proposals of a contract. With regard to the second proposal in the memo, in respect to the Gorernment making up the deficiency mentioned by an extra allowance of land, th« position was this : that the Government could only deal in accoi'dance with the law, and any proporal outside the land could not be entertained by the Government. He repeated his assurance that the Government would endeavour to acquire from the natives free cessions of land. ' After some discussion upon points raised by Dr. Campbell and Mr Peacock, The Hon. Mr Bsycje said that the Government had recently acquired some blocks of land, one especially of 5,700 acres in area being good land. He thought it right to add that there were certain other blocks which the Government was almost in a position to acquire, which would be available as an endowment. These would altogether leave the deficiency from the 30 per cent, at £19,000, assuming that it was decided to pay the full 30 per cent He would say that they might not be in a position to acquire the remainder in land. They were, however, endeavouring to acquire land at the present moment, and these endeavours would be continued, and supposing that the Government got into a position enabling it by acquiring land to grant the 30 per cent, to the Company, it was prepai'ed to make a contract to that effect. As to the second Question, he agreed with Mr Rolleston that the Government was not in a position to enter into a contract with regard to it, or rather could not contract under the Railways Construction Act. Mr Clack : It might be a separate contract, seeing that the Government is not bound positively to do anything in it beyond what it now contemplates. Hon. Mr Beyoe : It might be a separate contract, but it could not be under the Railways Construction Act. There was a probability of the full amount being got and being made up, but as Mr Rolleston had said the Government was not in a position to give a binding promise to do what was wanted, but it might do this withuut the promise. It might arrange this matter, as a similar question was arranged with the Manawater people about their railway, viz., "if or when the Government acquire the land it will make up the percentage to the desired limit." It was now endeavouring to acquire land for that very purpose.

Mr Peacock said- that the directors thought that they had a right to be placed in the same position as if the Government already held the land, that is, have the power to rate, but inasmuch &s it was not to be exercisable they should have some equivalent for it, and if the natives were willling to cede land for railway purposes, he did not see why the Government should have any hesitation in taking it. The Hon. Mr Bryoe replied that he had not gone fully into the question, but it was likely to turn out that the Government had not the power of making such an agreement Mr Clark pointed out that the Company within six months would have to face a liability approaching £150,000. [Mr j Stewart, £130,000,] for the line to Lichfield; £60,000 more would be required. £200,000 is statuory cost of the line. Of course, the directors had contemplated the necessity of calling 10s per pound share of the capital subscribed. Then, if the Company went into the market to raise money by debentures to complete this section of the line, all it could offer as security would be the lino constructed with the rating power of the Government and the uncalled capital. Until that was done they could do nothing with the second section of the line, viz., that to Rotorua, which jusfc meant that unless early arrangements ctuld be made which would enable the directors to enter into a contract for the second section, it would have to be abandoned. The Hon. Mr Bryce said Ministers understood this, and it accounted for their anxiety to see the matter settled. He had placed that position before the Maoris. Mr Clark rejoined that unless there was a prospect of some endowments from the natives in lieu of rating, the Company would not be justified in entering into a contract. The Hon. Mr Bryce said that this second question was the difficulty. He saw no way of giving the Company an assurance that would represent a money value, because there was no immediate prospect of getting a gratuitous endorsment, and besides it was doubtful whether the Government had power to give such an assurance. Mr Clark twitted the Government wich having lost the confidence of the natives. Mr Dryce denied this. Mr Clark asked if ministers would allow [ them to test the willingness of the natives to grant endowments, their agent being associated for the purpose with a Government agent. Mr Bryce replied firmly in the negative. After considerable discussion upon this point, Dr Campaell asked if there was any objection to employing a Government agent to move the natives in the desired direction. To this no definite reply was given, the assurance being merely repeated that the Government would continue its endeavours, and still had hopes of success. Mr Clark bantered the Ministers upon this phrase, and Dr. Campbell remarked that the directors would discount these hopes by their slender chances of success. After some further discussion, the interview terminated. Oneiiunga Iron Works. — Messrs Morrin and Chambers waited upon the Hon. Mr RoHeston in reference to the harbour lease at the Manukau for which they had applied, and also the remission of wharfage on raw goods. The matters were now before the Harbour Department. Mr Rollkston promised to push the matter to a speeky settlement when he returned to Wellington.