AMAZING ASSERTIONS

Sun (Auckland), Volume II, Issue 381, 15 June 1928, Page 13

AMAZING ASSERTIONS

Activities of a Councillor STARTLING DOCUMENT READ PERHAPS the most extraordinary document that lias ever been read in the Council Chamber amazed a full attendance of councillors and a crowded gallery at the City. Council last evening. Xot unexpectedly the document concerned Councillor W. H. Hurray and a number of his associates, and covered a number of their alleged activities and statements, mainly concerning Civic Square leases and funds for prosecuting the Murray inquiry.

The statement was received by the Mayor through a firm of. solicitors, and was signed by Reuben jaffe, who was first connected with 1 Civic Square leases. • The statement included the following:— “I, Reuben Jaffe, beg to‘submit to you as requested details of conversations between myself and others, including Councillor Murray and Mr. J. R. Lundon. In December, 1927, as you are aware, I had obtained the leasehold of Lot 5 of the council’s property, commonly known as Civic Square. Fairly shortly after this Councillor Murray called upon me in my shop. He did this on several occasions. He advised me that he would do what he could for me and promised that he would keep me informed of the council’s actions in connection with the lease. “Councillor Murray’s first visit was shortly after I had made a request to the council to extend the period for requiring payment of rent. Possibly it was because of this request for a concession that caused Councillor Murray to see me. He expressed his approval of the council granting me the. concession I desired and said he would do what he could to assist me in obtaining this. INSIDE INFORMATION “I think the second occasion Councillor Murray called was after the council had granted my request for a concession in respect of rent. I think at the time he called I had learned that the council had granted this request. Councillor Murray, however, advised me that the council had conceded what I wanted and informed me that he personally had spoken in favour of the council so doing, and had used his influence to this end. “Councillor Murray advised me that in connection with the further leases of the Civic Square the council was framing better terms because the public would not take up the leases on the same terms as I had done/ Councillor Murray then told me that he would use his best endeavours to see that I got the same terms as the new leases. “So far as my recollection goes the first time that Councillor Murray asked me to contribute toward the funds for his inquiry with the City Council was on the occasion he advised me of the better terms for the new leases. “He did on this occasion definitely ask me to contribute toward the funds Whilst not actually declining Councillor Murray’s request, I made no promises in this connection, avoiding the subject as much as possible.” Mr. Jaffe said he was later asked for a contribution by a Mr. Groos, and said: “Put .me down, for 10s.” “I may say I had no real interest in Councillor Murray’s inquiry, nor any real sympathy with it, but, a few shillings being neither here nor there I felt, in view of Councillor Murray’s visits to me, and his promises, I could hardly refuse some contribution. “After I had been negotiating with O’Brien, I met Councillor Murray in the street, and he asked me to tell him all about it. I informed him at that juncture that I could not discuss anything. Shortly after this, O’Brien’s put in a tender to the council for the sections, as you are aware. This no doubt came to the knowledge of Councillor Murray, for he came to me and led me to believe that he knew ali about the O’Brien deal in respect to Lot 5. “Councillor Murray again stated that I had to give him more money for his funds. I told him that I would not commit myself, and further informed him that I had need of all my money. “Just after this, my employee, Mr. White, told me that Councillor Murray had rung—l being out at the time —stating that he wanted me urgently. “I met Councillor Murray, who took me into his billiard room, and stated that there was some danger of my not getting the same terms as the new leases from the council. “MUST SEE MR. LUNDON” “He told me that I must see Jerry Lundon at once. He also told me that Jerry Lundon was the only one who could advise me what to do. “I said that 1 could not see what Mr. Lundon could do to help me, and thereupon Councillor Murray showed me a lot of papers and records, which Mr. Lundon had prepared for Councillor Murray re council matters, and advised me that it was for my own good I must see Mr. Lundon at once. “Councillor Murray said that Lundon was a capable and energetic man, and had worked for him at times all night. I gathered the impression that the papers and records were produced to impress me with Mr. Lundon’s capabilities. “Councillor Murray was very insistent that I should see Mr. Lundon. I told Councillor Murray that I could not see Mr. Lundon that morning, and an arrangement was made that Councillor Murray and Mr. Lundon should see me at four o’clock on the following day at my top shop. I arrived at the top shop at about 4.15 p.m., and found Councillor Murray and Mr. Lundon there at the time. They were seated in the fitting room. My brother, Mr. Max Jaffe, was present at the interview with Mr. Lundon, Councillor Murray, and myself.

“I asked Mr. Lundon what he wanted me for, and he advised me that he had been to the court with Councillor Murray, and had found out all about my company, and generally knew the position of the transaction. He stated that there were weaknesses in my case —that he desired to help me, and see the thing through for me, and therefore wanted me to tell him all the details, as although he had searched he had not been able to get quite the full details of the deal. He stated that lie desired this information to enable him to help me. I thereupon told Mr. Lundon about the transaction. and this, after I had started to tell him. consisted largely in my answering the questions he asked me. THE MAYOR’S INCOME “During the conversation, after he had learned details, Mr. Lundon said: “ ‘What are the Mayor and town clerk getting out of you?’ ” I was quite amazed at the question, and said: ‘What a wrong question to ask me.* “Mr. Lundon replied: ‘Well, do you

mean to tell. me for one moment that the Mayor can live on his honorarium, and do you mean to tell me that he is not getting something out of this?' I replied: ‘Emphatically no; I am disgusted at your suggestion. I have not spoken to the Mayor privately in my life, nor to the town clerk.’ ” “Councillor Murray did not stay as long as Mr. Lundon, and I think Mr. Lundon made these expressions after Councillor Murray had gone, Councillor Murray stating that he had to attend a councif meeting. QUESTION OF FUNDS “Mr Lundon then got on to the' question of Councillor Murray’s funds, and asked me point-blank how much I was going to give to the funds. I did not like Mr. Lundon’s. attitude, which I found very difficult to deal with. He has a strong personality and was very' insistent in his request. I reluctantly stated.that I might give a £lO note when my matters were finally settled. “Mr. Lundon bluntly said, ‘Promises are no good to me. You must give the money immediately/ This I declined to do. 1 considered the matter had gone quite far enough, and stated that I thought we had better go home. “I took Mr. Lundon in my car as far as the middle of Ponsonby Road and dropped him there. (“I do not suggest that this is more than a precis of what took place, as the interview occupied about two hours. It is, however, a fair criterion of what took place at the interview.”) The statement said that Mr. Jaffe heard nothing for a fortnight, and then got an urgent request to see Mr. Murray, which he eventually did. CR. MURRAY WORRIED “Mr. Murray said he was greatly worried over , the council inquiry business, and that he and Mr. Lundon must have funds to carry on. I declined to contribute, and told Mr. Murray I was disgusted with him for bringing Jerry Lundon into the matter. “Mr. Murray pointed out that I should have difficulties unless I could obtain Lundon’s assistance, but I could not hope to do this without money. “After declining to contribute, I told Mr. Murray that it seemed to me that he was putting up a bluff, and if I had known this I would have had nothing to do with him or Mr. Lundon. We then parted, Mr. Murray asking me not to tell anything about what had happened between us. This I did ~ot commit myself to and simply drove on MONEY OR -T “The general impression left upon me by Councillor Murray during my earlier interviews with him was that he would assist me with his influence as a councillor if I would contribute to his funds. The impression which I gained at the last interview was that unless I contributed to his funds he would use his influence as a councillor against me. This impression was not given by any specific statement, but was gathered from the general run of Councillor Murray’s talk, and from his attitude. “I am prepared to substantiate the whole of the above statement in any way required by statutory declaration, or by evidence on oath if necessary.” (Signed) Reuben Jaffe. The reading of the statement was interrupted by various comments, Cr. Stallworthy in particular supporting the expressions of disgust and amazement made by Mr. Jaffe. The Mayor moved that the statement be referred to the Finance Committee to inquire and report. Cr. Murray: I have listened to this long rigmarole ; . Cr. Stallworthy: It is more than that. The Mayor: Order! “BE REASONABLE.” “I wish you would call impudent councillors to order when they make these remarks,” said Cr. Murray. “It would b© impossible to reply to this tonight. The only statement I can make is that it is inaccurate and untrue. Can I get a copy of the statement? The Mayor: Yes. Cr. Murray: To-night? “Be reasonable Mr. Murray,” was the reply. “Do you want the staff recalled to type it to-night?” Cr. Murray said he wanted the document as soon as possible. The motion was carried.