PARLIAMENT.

Stratford Evening Post, Volume XXXVI, Issue 69, 26 July 1913, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

FRIDAY, JULY 25

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL BILL.

Wellington, July 25

The Council met at 2.30

■ The debate on the Legislative Council Bill was resumed by the Hon. W. C. F. .• Cam cross, who urged impartial treatment of the Bill. He believed that the Government was sincere, but it was the sincerity of an unworthy cause. Ho could not see how any mid course such as suggested by Mr J. R. Sinclair was possible. Either tho Council must be an elective or a nominative body. Partial election and nomination would raise the barrier of caste. Men sitting by virtue of dilrerentrights could not regard themselves as equals. If partial election was admissible, why not the whole? He was no believer in . two elective Houses and was fixed in his preference for the nominative system. He must, therefore, vote against the Bill. The Government had not shown in what respect the Chamber failed that the constitution should be changed. Ha doprecatid the, bitterness display d at partj elections, instancing that of Grey, and warned members of what would bo introduced into ilie electorates and the Council if tho Bill passed. Tho question of an elective Council had never been seriously discussed by the country: The Government came into power on freehold, not on reform of the Council. To be consistent, the Governent mc ! apply the principle of proportional representation to the Lower House, if e-objected to the present method of "Trying it on the dog." The Minister might succeed in passing the Dill, but if so hit. work would bo that of a destroyer.

The Ho:. S. T. George deprecated haste in dealing with the Bill. As a result of its suspension last year, the Minister had considerably improved the measure, Perhaps it it had another year'sr consideration they could make it acceptable to all sides. He was in favor of a nominative second

Chamber, but recognised that democracies preferred elective bodies. He vas prepared to concede that point, but woulu not, however, support any sicond Chamber elected on the sa.m* busis as the popular House. If elected as the Bill proposed, the body reprt*a;ituig largei territory and more petsrlo would inevitably become the stronger Chamber. He advocated * property qualification. He wag opposed to proportions! representation, under which the "ticket" system must prevail. The expense of electrons and numerous ballot papers complicated it. Special representation of the Maoris should not be 'perpetuxoed. The provisions dealing with the Bills passed by one House' and rejected by the other, were absurd, 1- with regard' to money Bills. He would vote for the second reading in the hope that the Btf l would bo knocked into shape by a committee, but he would never vote for a second Chamber elected on the same franchiso as the Lower House

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

The House met at 2.30. FIRST HEADINGS

The Wellington City Empowering Bill (Mr Herdman). and Land Drainago Amendment Bill (Mr Wilkinson), were read a first time. THE COPYRIGHT BILL. The House went into committee on the Copyright Bill, which pasesd through with minor ..amendments.

PENSIONS RECIPR OCITY.

The Hon.. K; iMI JB.ii Fishier! moved the second reading of the Old Age Pensions Reciprocity Bill, which ratifies the agreement, beltveen the New Zealand and Coaunonwealth Governments providing, ion reciprocity in the matter of old, age pensions. The Minister said that tho pension conditions woij easier in Australia than in New Zealand. The proportion Of pensions in ' New Zealand v;.'". l.T'3] in Australia 1.50. In each country the pension was £2O, while in Australia the residential qualification waa 20 years against 25 in this country. A modification wa u proposed in the New Zealand law by tho Consolidation Bill. The conditions here would be much in line with thojo of Australia. It was impassible to get data relating to the proJabie cost of the scheme. In repiy to, : peechqs, Mr Fisher said that .the New ( Zealand, pension* scheme i"ov the year 1912-13 had cost £415,?6Liand ,in,,the sixS,t»ieß ; .of Australia pensions, c05t£2,200,000, which! worked out'at ,abo,ut, the .same as our»j pe*- Shite. There'was no way of] data/relating; |to pensions,' as It was impossible to find out how m£',.jy pppplo,in- would, po^ie/under,the Bill. He.,hflped thatj I lie ] Biilf ;'w,opld., be" the, (forerunner qt ; m/W,, >WP r P Cii 4i agreements; .w ; |th one coriceiming workers' compensation. The Bill was read a second time.

THE PENSIONS BILL. The House resumed at 7.30. ■h s»%#<& Fif» iP-i<Wtis i > mol^ SMB-»btfei«ifOil«Wllaw P* l '' fcfl ■ **&■ Bill by.Uhe IpAJItt&A? tire fn:sU-eatUng;, The ,m«Mi IfaiWW weuo th<?,Rayjnpnt..of ,pensirms,to wfr men.at.the age. of„6Q,-»n4itliP repeal of the income.and property quattiica,tions for military pensions. Other amendments permit.of a break in the residential .qurtlifrcation for- .pensions, the definition of income as applied to old ug.3 and widow?' pensions, the disposition of property by will, tho payment of instalments accruing during December, and an alternative penalty for fraud. The Minister said that no pension fund would be fair which did not recognise the thrifty man. Tho new scheme would cost £70,000 after the first year. The increase in military pensions would involve an expenditure of between £7,000 and £IO,OOO per annum. They proposed to exempt the home in th© computation of incomo, so that a person who.had been thrifty should not be penalised, and the idle person, should receive a pension.- .

Mr G. W. Russell hoped that the House would not support the universal pension scheme, as had been suggested. If that were'adopted, men who were worth hundreds of thousands of pounds would be,found claiming pensions," : and th& whole ' system would break down.

Mr Massey said that he had mad© a promise that, if they secured the Treasury Benches, amendments to the Old Age Pension Act. as wore included in the Bill before the House, would be carried out, and ho had kept thepromise that was incorporated in the Governor's Speech. Ho could further say that all ihe promises of the Government- would bo kept. The Minister replied briefly, and the Dill war; re.id a second turie. The House rose at 12.45 a.m.