THE REV. DR GUTHRIE ON COMPULSORY EDUCATION.

Southland Times, Issue 1218, 4 March 1870, Page 3

THE REV. DR GUTHRIE ON COMPULSORY EDUCATION.

At the annual meeting of the friends and supporters of the Original Eagged Schools, held in the Edinburgh Music Hall on the 21st of December last, the Bey. Dr Guthrie, who has the credit of being the founder of those schools for the destitute poor, delivered an address on the benefits which had been derived from their establishment. The following is the rev. gentleman's opinion on the subject of compulsory education : — It is now about twenty years since, in this very hall, having being convinced, in spite of many predilections to the contrary, \ that no machinery on earth could reach j the hundreds of thousands of the lapsed ! classes in this country unless there was a compulsory system of education, I remember — and it is one of the things in my life I look back upon with gratitude— -on this platform, and in this hal 1 , enunciating and enforcing my views in favour of com ■ puUory education. I was listened to in • ilemu silence, as they say. They were astonished at my views. They had never heard of compulsory education before ; but they had not read John Knox's first Book of Dicipliue. Three hundred years ago John Knox laid down the system of and compulsory education. He was abused maligned as a fanatic j they said he had no heart ; they could not say he had no head ; but Froude pronounces him to havebeenthegreateststatesman of his day (Applause.) Three hundred years ago John Knox laid down this doctrine — and I will give it you in his own words — " Nae man of whatever estate he be — peer or peasant, a laird or the man that drives him, a prince or a beggar — shall be permitted to bring up his own child according to his own fancy, but shall be obliged to give it an education in learning and in virtue." (Applause.) So said John Knox. three hundred years ago, and so said I on this platform twenty years ago. When I sat down I was beside one of the sharpest and wisest men I ever knew, and who is still living, but has retired from public life, and for whose good sense, wisdom, andcharacterlhave the highest respect— l mean Bishop Terrot. "When I sat down at the close of my speech he whispered in my ear, " I see you are in favour of compulsory education." I said, " Yes I am," and whispering, I asked him, " What do you think?" "So am I," he said. (Applause.) " Then," said I, " why do not you, a minister of weight and influence, when you have these opinions, stand up and say so ? Why don't you do that ?" "Ah," he said, "they would think me mad." (Laughter.) Those who in public enunciated views in favour of compulsory education then were regarded as mad ; but they are not regarded now as mad, I am glad to say. (Laughter,) Then, what need is there for compulsory education ? We talk about the glory of England—about the sun of our empire never setting-rthatitisno sooner set on one part than it rises on the other ! Now, here Professor Rogers. A report of his speech states : — " Some time ago he went with Dr Parr (of the Registrar-General's Office) through a calculation as to what might be the number of children between the nges of five and a half and thirteen years in England and Wales, and he j came to the conclusion that they fell very little short of 3,600,000. Out of that , number 1,200,000 were under instruci tion in the schools to which G-overnment aid was accorded ; and if they took an equal number as being educated in private institutions, or in schools which refused the Government grant, he was convinced that it would be an exceedingly liberal estimate. It followed from that calculation that in England and Wales there were 1,200,000 children destitute of the means of primary instruction." Then as to the effects of compulsory education. In Saxony, for some time past, the inhabitants have all been able to read and write. Education !is compulsory. It would not be possible to find throughout the kingdom a child ! that had never attended school. In ! Switzerland, the inhabitants can all read and write, and possess other indispensable knowledge. Nearly all the children, from the age of seven to fifteen, receive a sound education. In * the Canton of Zurich, the proportion of scholars is one iin every four persons ; in the Canton of Thargau, one in five ; in the Canton of Vaud, nineteen -twentieths of the children attend •school. Switzerland expends about Is 7d per head for education, which is compulsory. In all the small States of North Germany education is general and compulsory, and it is "seldom one meets with an illiterate person. In Sweden the proportion of the inhabitants unable ■to read or write is one in the thousand, and one in five attends school. In Wurtemberg there is not a peasant or a girl in the poultry yard, or in the tavern, that cannot read perfectly, and write and cipher. Every village of thirty houses is provided with a school, and all the children attend school. Education there is also compulsory, and in 1838 the proportion of scholars was one to eight of the population. In Holland public relief is withdrawn from all poor families who neglect to send their children to school, and in Norway nearly all the inhabitants can read, write, and cipher tolerably. Onein seven attends schoo l , and education is compulsory. In France the amount allowed by the State for education is about 5d per head. It was stated some time ago that, accordingto official returns, the number of children in this country between five and thirteen years of age — the school age — was four and a half millions who ought to be educated. A calculation had been made that Liverpool and Manchester had 40,000 children not at school, and Birmingham showed similar figures. It came to this that out of 4,500,000 children, well nigh 2,000,000; were receiving no education whatever." I find that wherever education is compulsory the children can all read,

write, and count, and where education is not compulsory the most ignorance exists. In 1858, out of 100 prisoners in the prison at Preston, forty were ignorant of the name of Jesus Christ, and sixty of the name of the Queen ; and when one boy was examined on the senses, and asked what was the use of the nose, instead of saving it gave the sense of smell, he replied, "It's to be blowed." (Laughter.) Now why, my friends, should we not have such a system as that ? I see that an exellent magistrate says he does not like compulsory education — that he does not like anvthingthatis compulsory. No more do I, if it can be done without. You compel a man to feed his child's body. Why not compel a man to feed his child's mind ? You compel children in prison to be educated. Why should you not compel them to be educated out of it ; j and thereby keep them out of it ? You , compel children to be vaccinated ; you j compel millworkers to be educated, and I soldiers to be educated. Then why J should you not compel others to be educated that have as much need of education as they have ? You compel men to pay their debts — which not to do might be a very convenient thing it there was no compulsion ; and why, then, should men not be compelled to pay the debts they owe to the State for all the blessings they enjoy, by educating their children? You compel ladies to tell their age ; and I must say that any lady who submits to that law which compels her to tell her age, and yet i objects to compulsory education. " swallows the cow and worries on the tail." (Laughter and applause.) I have only to say this — that I .am not afraid of the Pope, I am not afraid of the (Ecumenical Council, I am not afraid of the world, or of our country. I have great hopes for our country and for the world. " But then," it may be asked, " if you are so much in favor of compulsory education, why did you not propose to introduce a provision for it in some educational bill ? The late Lord Advocate — r» now Lord Moncreiff — proposed bill after bill, yet you never proposed that attached tp-any of them there should be. q. pr6y^iu>^;jf6r? compulsory education." That is ; quite - true. My reason for that was— that- 1 did not wish to conflict matters more ; I was anxious to take what I could get and look for better times. I never thought of abandoning a good scheme because it was not perfect. I have always acted on the principle enunciated by a tenant-farmer in Caithness, when Sir George . Sinclair was first elected a member of Parliament. " Noo, Sir George," said he, " they have made you a member of Parliament ; and my advice? to you is : — aye be tak\ takin' what you can get, and aye be seek, seekin' till you get mair." (Laughter and applause.) Well, I re joice that these bills have been defeated, because it is as plain as the light of day that now we shall have a system of compulsory education connected, with a great national education scheme. (Hear, 1 hear.) Why, the very Town Council of Edinburgh— the embodiment and'eoncenr, tration of all the town's wisdom — (laughter) — are for compulsory education. (Applause.) Members of Parliament and millspinners are for it • and, so far as I can know the great mass of the people, they are all for it. (Applause.) In regard to the religious difficulty, allow me to say this — that nothing has distressed me more than to find how religious people have, with their difficulties on this and that, point, obstructed our progress towards attaining the greatest blessing our country could receive. I have no sympathy with them. (Hear, hear.) I would be very happy to see a catechism in our schools. I would not propose the Shorter Catechism, nor the Weslevan Catechism, nor the Church of England Catechism, but a catechism — and I think I could draw one out in the space of five hours — that would embrace all that is essential in religion, and that it would be necessary to teach the .children in our schools. (Applause.) I think that to draw out such a. catechism would be the easiest thing in the world • and that if you were to shut up the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bey. Dr Taunton, and John Angell James in one room together — (laughter) — if you were to shut up the heads of the Episcopal, the Wesleyan, and the Independent bodies, and tell them that they would not get out until they prepared a catechism for use in the schools of the country, they would accomplish the task in five hours. (Applause and laughter ) lam perfectly willing, seeing how the country is divided, that no catechism should be taught in any school. We use none in our own Bagged School. But while I would be willing that there should be no catechism, I am not for giving up the Bible in our schools. (Applause.) It would be a dreadful thing to think that we could not teach the Word of God in the schools of our country. Then, it may be asked, what • about the Boman Catholics ? I hate persecution ; I have seen too much of it, to say nothing of what I have felt. I have seen too much of what the Protestants have suffered to have any desire to persecute a Boman Catholic or any other man for conscience sake. (Applause ) I would be the last man in the world to do so. On one occasion three fellows came to me in Lauriston Lane. They addressed me as " Yer riv'renee." " What is it, friends !' V I inquired. " We want to speak a word to yerriv'rence." " What were you wanting ?" " Well, you know, we are very hard up ; and you know if you would get us work we would change." " You scoundrels !" I said, "go away from my door ; itisnotsuch as you we want/ (Applause.) lam happy to say there was not a Protestant amongst them. (Applause.) Not the basest of them in the High street of Edinburgh would have offered to give up his religion for a piece of bread ; nothing I would have held in greater abhorrence. (Applause.) I think it is horrible the domination that the priests exercise over the Eoman Catholics, refusing them the liberty to read God's Word ; but I would

take education with that if not without it, and where there was a sufficient number of Eoman Catholics to form a ' school, I would give them the means of ' supporting a secular school among themselves ; but I never would submit, so far as I am concerned, that public money should go to teach error, whether secular or sacred. (Applause.) So far from persecuting the Roman Catholics, I am perfectly ready, and! would do it with the I greatest pleasure, and to the utmost of mf ability— l would pay money, _if there .w;a,s no other way of providing it, jfqr supporting a school for the children of Boman Catholics where there was a sufficient number of them to form a school ; and where there was not, the conscience clause wnuld meet their case. I agree with Mr M'Laren that we should not be required, in order to please a minority in the country, to shut out the , Bible from our schools. That is not a j thing that I could agree to. (Applause.) | But I have no hesitation in saying that if | J religious people will not come to a general ! understanding oh that matter, and give up their points of dispute — for I would ask no man to give up hia principles— if they continue to confound, as many are doing, points and principles, then they will drive me into the same position as that into which Mr Cobden was driven. Mr Cobden said — " I met the ministers of fih'e Church of England, the "Wesleyam, and Nonconformists, and I had them in my counting-room trying to come to an agreement on the religious qu°stion, but they wearied out my patience," so that the schools had to be entirely secular, and the \ religious teaching left to the parents and ministers of the different denominations. (Applause.) Well, now, the religious men of the country, unless they set aside their " points," and meet together and make an agreement such as I have indicated and sketched out, then many who love religion as much as they do, and who are ready to suffer, or even to die for it, will be prepared to go into a secular system, and to say, " The children must be educated, and if you cannot say grace over the meat, the mea% jraust be given that human life may Ib^ayeft.*'-; (Applause.) ; I have the most w CQn^[de^ji;^expectation -that the whole Tmatiei will soon, be satisfactorily settle l . (Applause.) Though I am no prophet, and no prophet's son, and one that may nofc'lfre'tb see it, I am confident that that will soon be the case with education in this old, blessed, beloved country of ours. I lam pretty sure of that. lam a veteran in the cause, so far as the education of the poor — the poorest of the poor — is concerned; one that has suffered some woundings that are forgotten, one that far beyond his deserts hai received rewards that are gratefully remembered. (Applause.) lam now ready— to retreat ? never !— but to retire, and leave the work to younger, it may be abler, but it never can be more earnest men. (Loud applause.) I leave it in the confidence that notwithstanding, and in spite of, on the one hand the bigotry of some, and on the other hand, .the indifference to .religion of others-/ that^neifcher the: one :^n*or the* other— neither • those that confound points that are not essential with points that are essential — nor those that would fling both principles and points , overboard—l leave ifc in the happy confidence that now that the country is up, the country is alarmed, the country is awakened, the country knows its nee 1, the country knows its duty, they will be no more able to stop the progress of this blessed cause than to arrest the revolutions of nature — to stop the rising of the sun, or the earth turning round upon its axis. (Applause.) Such is my hope and confidence. I rejoice in it, and I would '_ say, though it is a very sacred saying, that it will be the bringing of ths Lord Jesus to many a perishing sinner— to many a one that cannot otherwise be ; savid for this world and for the next, it '(I>r Q-iithrie' concluded amid the cordial cheers of tjb.e audience.)