PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Issue 1034, 7 October 1868, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

POUETH SESSION. « FRIDAY, 2nd OCTOBER, 1868. EVENING SITTING. IMMIGRATION SCHEME. Mr Pea-BSON, in rising to move his scheme of Immigration, on the Order Paper, said he would not take up the time ofthe House, as his whole arguments had already been given in a series of letters which had appeared in the the public press. He held it was absolately necessary for a new country to go forward, or its whole commercial world would go bankrupt— a case of stagnation was its death. That it should go ahead it is necessary to have an influx of fresh capital, and fresh people. America was a remarkable instance of what.lmmigration had done. Victoria was now' the same, and he thought they could not do better tban follow their example. He would wish to have it distinctly understood that he had no desire to reduce the price of labor here. If laborers could obtain 8s a day, and employers could afford to give it, he would be very glad to see such a state of matters. He had seen when labor was worth much more, but, as he had shown in some of his letters^ the demand and supply of labor was at present unequally balanced. After some other remarks the hon. member said he recollected of a man asking him for some work. He asked the person if he thought he was worth 8s per day, and he said he was not. Then said the hon. member, how. can you expect any one to give it ? The man said it was the usual rate of laborers pay here, and if he did not get it he would go elsewhere. It did not seem to occur to him that it was better to remain here on the certainty of work at a small wage, than incur expense by paying his passage, <fee, and going elsewhere on an uncertainty. The hon. member, after reading some extracts from Trollop's work on America, submitted that the laboring classes were much better here. After comparing the climate of Otago with that of Southland, showing that the latter had the advantage, he said it was not possible for farmers here to pay 8s a day, and therefore it was necessary to adopt some way of introducing people into the province tc such an extent as would neutralise that. It was a pity people here would not take a less wage instead of going elsewhere, but that was their matter. Labor in Victoria was now much cheaper — from 4s to 6s per day, yet they considered it necessary to introduce fresh immigrants. It had been said that farming here would not pay. He again quoted from Trollope as to the production of cereals in America, and contended that the same would pay here if the price of labor was reduced. In one instance — barley — there had been? a remarkable increase, and as for a market, there was no doubt about that now, as Mr Buchanan was open to take 100,000 bushels a year. The introduction of labor, too, would reduce taxation. America had been able to carry on its gigantic war, simply from its large population. The city of New York alone, paid more taxation than the whole revenue of Canada came to, and Mr Trollope said the State never dreamed of not being able to pay. The hon member then entered upon the resolutions sfi-YMfo'?»,_supporting each by a few remarks. Mr Longuet, in seconding the motion, felt he was only doing justice to the place. Mr Stetjabt asked where the funds were to come from ? That a block of land might be reserved by the House for the purpose, was asking too much. Mr Peabson introduced the sum, because he had heard that certain gentlemen were prepared to give some £40,000 or £50,000 in the purchase of land. They would not do so, however, unless

steps were taken to bring people into the country. Mr B-sstian always had an idea that if men had an opportunity of marrying and settling down here, our prosperity would commenoo. Families here wanted the comforts servants gave, and men wanted wives, and so he was disposed to support Immigration. Mr Dalbtmple had -always noticed that the hon member for Oteramika never did things by halves. He, with others, had endeavored to get a bit of road in the Eastern District, when the hon. member did not make his appearance at all, and then to his (Mr Dalrymple'-) surprise, he came down at once for £32,000 for making roads. As he was a slow Coach, he was glad tb see the hon member come forward so boldly. Now, however, something more extensive still was asked tor. ! Beading down the hon. member's motion reminded him of what he had read some years ago about the Sea Serpent. How- ; ever, it was a step in the right direction, and he would not oppose it. He inten- ; ded quoting from Adam Smith, but the hon. member had forestalled him. (Laughter from Mr Pearson.) The hon; member might laugh, but he (Mr Dalrymple) would quote from De Tocquevitte, that population was the first element of wealth in every country. They were agreed on that point, but when the hon. member found such a Herculean undertaking proposed he was afraid it would tumble down to nothing. He approved of going up the ladder step by step, and not jumping to the top at once. What he wished, was for the Government to carry on a system of Immigration with the means at their command, supplying work to those who came, if it should be but bringing stone from the Bluff at 4s or 5s per day. That would be something, but to his knowledge there were numbers of men who could not find work, and therefore, dare not stop in the place. When a man was earning even 4s or 5s per day, he was in a position to drive a bargain with the squatter or settler — he was not forced to take such terms as they may choose to offer. The hon. member knew the labor market well. The laborer in this country had no chance whatever where there were no Government Works. As a proof, the House could see that they could not keep labor in the Province when it was brought into it. He thought properly farming the means at our disposal was the right course, but it seemed to some hon. members that this was not the right course. Nothing short of a Herculean effort was to do. If they looked at the other provinces it would be found that they retained their laborers by finding them work to do, at some wage or other. Otago did so, and had a steady flow of Immigration. The last time they had a few immigrants — if he remembered rightly — it was those Girvan weavers, (laughter), hehad heard them spoken of as paupers, (laughter), but he would state for the information of the House that these people were all thriving, and formed a considerable portion of the population. He would say that there was not a pauper among them, and they were all now occupying a respectable status among us. If instead of great railway undertakings, the money at the disposal of the House was farmed, the Province would now be in a good situation. But no, nothing but a tremendous scheme was going to do. It was madness. He begged the House to remember that he was not opposed to Immigration, but he could not agree to such a gigantic scheme. His mind would not reach it. He was particularly opposed to bringing iv such outlandish people as Germans — all here were Scottish or English. He knew many of the people in Lancashire" and Cheshire, and if the affairs of the Province were managed in anything like a reasonable way, he would be only too glad to encourage these people to come out here, but he had never asked one. He dared not do so, owing to the reckless way things were carried on, and so long as that was the case, it was not possible, in his opinion, to bring people to this country. Mr M'CiiTJBE considered that the Government were doing very well under the present arrangements. He held in his hand a petition from hia constituency (New River) praying for a scheme of Immigration, and at another meeting in that district these resolutions were unanimously rejected. Of course he could not support both, and he therefore thought that the system presently pursued by the Government fully met the wants of the Province. Mr Abmstbong- was not prepared to support the resolutions of the hon. member (Mr Pearson) but he was not opposed to Immigration. He agreed with Mr Dalrymple that we wanted capital just at present more than labor, and he thought it would be a dangerous thing indeed, "at this moment, to introduce extensive Immigration. He was prepared, however, to support the other portions of the hon. member's resolutions for a colonial scheme. Mr JohnstOj!*' admitted that the principle of the resolutions was good. There were plenty of capitalists in the country who would find the money if the labor was found for them. He proceeded to combat at some length the idea that a large sum was necessary to commence farming here. It was a total fallacy. He would not be afraid to go into the bush with nothing but an axe and three month's tucker. He did not see the necessity, however, of a Board of Commissioners. He thought that the Superintendent and Executive were quite sufficient to manage all that would be required. He considered that from £40 to £50 was too miuh. for farm servants. If wages »\ cre -less farmers who were now without; one might employ two. Alluding.!.) bush contracts, and the inability >. ■■' some to make wages out of them, he pointed out that it was not reasonable to expect -hat a tradesman could make the same wages at that work as those accustomed to it. As

a proof that in proper hands such contracts paid lie instanced a case where the workmen after paying everything, had a balance of £2 3s a week. Of course a great deal depended on the workman knowing exactly what to do, and so in any system of Immigration, great care would have to be taken that the Immigrants were a suitable classV-# for the country. . \ - "'i Mr Peabson, then replied^ length to all the arguments used in the course of : the debate. He particularly^ supported the necessity of a Board for expending^ i the money, and was sorry to find that it did not meet with so much favor in the House as he expected. Such a Board he : contended would be an independent body who wonld see that the funds at its disposal were properly expended, and the Immigrants money doly received. Indeed he wo;*»ld not care to see the scheme in operation without such a Board. He would, therefore, rather than push the matter or sacrifice the resolution, ask leave to postpone them till another sitting, and meanwhile, hon. members could think over the subject, and determine whether to accept his proposition or not. He would not like a division on his motion then, preferring that ample time should be given for its consideration. In reply to Mr Johnston, i The Speakeb said" it would be impossible to exclude three Commissioners from taking any part in politics unless their rights as electors were" taken from them. After some discussion on points of order an amendment, that consideration of the subject be postponed till Monday's sitting, was put and carried. (The remainder of the proceedings at this sitting have already apppeared in our columns.) ' MONDAY, sth OCTOBER. AFTERNOON SITTING. The House met to-day at one o'clock, when proceedings were opened with the usual prayers. The minutes of last meeting were read and confirmed, after some trivial alterations had been made. Mr Johjtsto-T presented a petition from C. D. Irvine Esq., regarding the tenders for completing the Oreti Eailway, which was read. Mr Swale gave notice that he would ask a certain sum to be placed on the estimates for a road at One Tree Point. Mr CiiEBKE gave notice that he would ask the Government to place on the table a return of all public works done without being tendered for since the first of May last. . Mr Clebke gave notice that at next sitting he would ask Government what it intended doing with reference to the conclusion or completion of the Oreti Railway. Mr Hatelx moved — " That a duty of £2 per ton be levied on all goods received in the province on which duty is paid elsewhere." His object in this motion was as much as possible to protect the revenue of the province. Mr Peabson seconded the motion pro forma. The Pbovhtciai. Tbeastteer said that to levy a duty in this shape was beyond their power. They might increase the rate of wharfage duty, but it was a matter for consideration whether it would be politic to do so. • After some discussion, the motion was put, and negatived without a division. Complying with Mr Gierke's motion, the Government laid on the table a return of the number of sheep passed by the Chief Inspector, since Ist September, 1867, under clause 3, of the "Sheep Amendment Ordinance, 1867." Mr Lojtgtjet asked the Government why Stewart's Island and Kuapuki were declared infected districts. He did so, because there had never been disease upon the Islands, and the cattle belong almost exclusively to the Natives, who attribute the not being allowed to dispose of their cattle more to personal enmity of themselves, than anything else. It may be said it is to prevent cattle being landed from other ports and transhipped here, but this is almost impossible, as from the proximity of the Island, it could not be done without the knowledge of the Customs. He was informed the Natives intend addressing the Governor unless it is altered, therefore he would ask an explanation. The Pbotjotcial Tbeasubeb, moved: — " That this Council is of opinion that au endowment for the Invercargill Hospital should be made, and with this i view requests the Government to take the necessary steps to secure, the northern half fronting Tay-street, of an oblong block at present restrved for public gardens for this object, the same to be surveyed in sections to be leased for building purposes, under powers to be given to trustees, to be appointed for that institution. One section, however, of the piece of land referred to be reserved for the use of the Invercargill Fire Brigade." After some discussion — -consideration of the question was adjourned to a future sitting. Mr Boss moved .—"That in the opinion of this Council the dis-establish-ment of the pilot staff at the New Eiver Heads will injuriously affect the commercial and other interests of the province — should not be carried into effect." Mr Lojsgtjet opposed the motion. In the course of his remarks he said the greatest misfortune to Southland appears to he having two harbours. We are not in a position to support them both. Therefore as long as they work in opposition to each other, the province must suffer. Does the keeping both open increase our traffic or add one farthing to our revenue ; does the public get the necessaries ot life any cheaper, or derive any -advantage whatever, then if not, why entail a useless expenditure of at least -81000 per annum, besides an immediate outlay buoying, and putting the New Eiver in an efficient condition, without the slightest prospect of a corresponding return. The ''many conflicting • opinions and. interests involved have

„ .'I ,1,1 -«_- M _^__w_w_M_MM-M_M| ' already cost the Province an erionnouir sum, and I attribute the greatest V portion of our present difficulties -to it, and if now any action is taken to, agiui 6peri,hp.the New River:, and driw .aid the traffic of the Bluff and InvercargiU Railway, it must seriously effect our best interests, and by useless expenditure add to our embarrasment. . We should economise not increase expenditure. After a long discussion the House reserved its decision till another sitting. Mr Clebke asked, for the sake of information, what was the cost of ther Commission of Enquiry, appointed .bjL. them tp report upon destitute and C-in__J ' nai child-en? Mr Abmstbokg- replied that the sum. of eight guineas had been paid to MrLillicrap as clerk to the committee.. - Mr Clebke asked if that was all tho expense that had been incurred, or merely the amount paid ? Mr Abmstbo-TG — _?he amount paid. : One witness had come a distance of 60 ; miles, and a recommendation was made V in the report that his expenses should be paid. This had not yet been done. Mr Da_bt__pl_! asked the hon; member for the New .I_iver| whetb#sfc if was his intention, during thepresetit se_2 , sion of Council, to comply with the desire of his constituents, expressed , at- a public meeting held at Wal*. lacetown last month, that the . representafive of the New Eiver Dift-i trict in the Provincial Council, move for a return specifying the respective duties of the officials in the whole of tUp departments of the Local Governnient, v and also to ask the Executive to furnish particulars of the work performed by each official during the last six months/ Mr M'Clure laid the document on the table. - i Several Notices of Motion having beea given, the Orders of the Day were post-, poned till the evening's sitting, and the House adjourned at 315 p.m..