THE DEBATE ON IRELAND IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Southland Times, Issue 959, 29 May 1868, Page 2

THE DEBATE ON IRELAND IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr Maguire opened the discussion in a speech characterised by the fervid eloquence peculiar to the Irish orator. Lord Mayo was the chief antagonist of Mr Maguire. There were other speakers but they were comparatively lesser lights. Mr Neate showed how thoroughly one professor of political economy can differ from another. Lord Arthur Clinton failed to explain to the world where he discovered his resolutions, and Mr O'Beirne was a weak reflex of his leader. Upon Lord Mayo fell the burden of encountering Mr Maguire. . . However, so far as an answer to Mr Maguire is concerned Lord Mayo's speech was as conclusive as | could be "desired. Mr Maguire had no | gradation in the to«es of his picture. He I drew a long indictment against the ! English nation ; Ireland was governed by ! a hostile force, the villagers were held by ! fortresses, a fleet made its'rendezvous in harbour after harbour, the rivers _ were patrolled by gunboats, the condition of the people was one of aggravated and increasing distress, the agricultural wealth of the country was diminishing, the land was being thrown out of use, the manufactures of Ireland had been as far as possible destroyed by English legislation and were even now thwarted by the jealousy of London merchants ; education was defective, and the Irish youth nursed the memory of the days of their greatgrandfathers, when, ninety years ago, the celebration of mass was a crime punishable by imprisonment, or when, seventyfive years since, Catholics were denied the franchise. Lord Mayo, in his solid way, had to demolish the figures of Mr Maguire's rhetoric. It is, of course, true that the suspicion of the ABAabeas Corpus Act places the liberty of all residents in Ireland at the discretion of the Government ; but this power has been conceded to the Ministers of the Crown, with the unanimous consent ofthe Irish members, for the protection o? the peace of the country against a movement foreign in its origin and in the elements whence it derives strength and support. The actual government of the sister kingdom is, Lord Mayo showed, wholly in the hands of Irishmen. The Lord Lieutenant is habitually an Irish resident, and his sons represent Irish constituencies. The Chief Secretary, Lord Mayo himself, is an Irishman of unmixed race ; The Lord, Chancellor, the Lore Chief Justice, the Master of the Rolls, the twelve Judges of the Common Law Courts are all Irishmen ; and a very large proportion are not merely Irishmen, but Roman Catholics Nine out ofthe twelve Judges belong to the religion of the majority — a proportion it may be remarked, almost the reverse of that found to prevail among the members of the Bar. The constabulry , whose military character Mr Maguire magnified, are all Irishmen, drawn indiscriminately from all creeds and persuasions ; and a very large pari of the army itself is made up of Irishmen. We subjoin the two principal speeches of the debate : — Mr Gladstone said he hoped that the Government would not have failed to realise the gravity of the present crisis. Eor his own part he was desirous to lose no time in separating himself from all responsibility for the continuanco of the present state of things in Ireland a moment longer. The Government had utterly failed to realise this gravity, and were apparently quite unconscious of the duty which devolved upon them. The right hon. baronet, the Secretary for India, with apparent sincerity relied upon time, and hoped that what they did would be dictated by a sense of justice. Why, they had been doing this for a period of 700 years, but the present state of things showed that their legislation had utterly failed in its object. The noble lord, the Secretary for Ireland, contrasted the feelings of "the Irish in America with the loyalty of the Irish in Australia and Canada ; but what was the reason of this loyalty iv Canada and Australia ? It was this • that in those countries the Irishman enjoyed a full and perfect security for the fruits of labor, and was not confronted with the last relics of a political and religious ascendancy. The noble lord gave a very fair account of the progress of Ireland ; but that very favorable report rather told against his conclusions, for it showed that this movement, although not so violent, was more deliberate than any of the previous risings, and showed that the feeling of discontent was, in spite of this progress, not only extensive, but deep-seated. In his opinion it was not altogether accurate to say that Fenianism was quite distinct from the state of things in Ireland. This progress had certainly checked agrarian outrages — the great opprobrium of Ireland — which were dictated by a wild sense ofrevenge. But still the present aspect of affairs was of a most portentous character, not only on account of the numbers who were driven across the seas, but still more on account of the feelings which existed amongst those who remained. Those who left in spite of their strong attachment to their homes and country carried away with them a bitter and burning sense of injury towards the Government, and to this state of things it was the duty of the Government to direct their first and earliest attention. (Cheers.) But how I did they stand as a Legislature ? Foi three years the Constitution had been suspended. This was a proof of the state of things which could only be met by a sacrifice of privileges so dear and precious. It was idle to say that the grievances of Ireland were less than they vvere ; but they had given to the Irish people a system of education which had opened their eyes and enlightened them as to the facts of the ease. These considerations must compel them to seriously appreciate this state of things, and on this both sides of the House apparently agreed. Her Majesty's Government had admitted that they mus^.bave a policy for Ireland, and the House had now to consider whether that policy met the exigencies of the time. There were six

subjects. The first was reform ; and he hoped the measure to be brought in would increase popular influence and strengthen constitutional rule. This iras an absolute necessity in all that wa3to be done for Ireland. The next question was the Ecclesiastical Titles Act. He had never bestowed on it any but maledictions, but he wished to know what course the Government would take. The next question was that of the railways. . There was not much hopo of legislation this session on the subject, but he waa prepared to give every consideration to any proposition the Government might have to make. He repudiated the argument that Free-trade had been injurious to Ireland, for every commodity that she exported had since then risen considerably in price. With respect to education no question seemed to be raised with 1 respect to popular or primary education ; ' but, as regarded higher education, he defended the proposal made by the late Government in 1866. The Roman Catholics, in this respect, had an undoubted grievance on account of their religious belief, and in his plan for the higher education he would have settled the matter on terms far the cheapest that would ever be accepted. That had \ passed away, and another Government had asked Parliament to sanction the enI dowment of a university intended for a section only of the population. This was not only unprecedented, but contrary to the policy which Parliament had of late years steadily pursued ; and did the Government think that a proposal so delusive and so impracticable could be^ entertained for a moment? The subject of higher education had changed during the last two years, and it was impossible to say what could, be done until they had settled what was to be done with the great national university in Dublin. With respect to the subject of the land, the Government laid down a basis for the first time on which they could hope to meet ; but he could not conceal how real, in his opinion, was the grievance of Ireland with respect to the land. As far back as 1845, a commission reported in favor of securing the right of the tenant to the value of improvements, even if made without the consent of the landlord ; and the Government of Sir Eobert Peel tried in vain to give it effect. Bill after bill had been brought in, but had either been evaded or defeated ; and up to this hour nothing had been done. The bill of Mr Cardwell was the only one that had passed, and it was as much as could be extracted from Parliament at the time ; but it had remained a dead letter, and was a confession of their impotence in discharging a debt of primary justice. He denied altogether the force of the argument that the Irish Church could not be touched without imperilling the safety of the Church of England, for it would be absurd to compare the handful of Protestants in Ireland with the millions of devout adherents to the Establishment in England. The dilatory pleas of the Government showed that they were not earnest in their desire to promote religious equality in Ireland. It was true that a commission had been issued, and issued, too, at the instance of Earl Russel ; but it was never intended by that noble Lord that the commission should not report until 1869, and that action should not be taken until 1870, if then. He submitted that no amount of inquirycould alter the great result, and that the time had come when the Protestant Church, as a State Church, must cease to exist. (This observation was received with a burst of cheering from the Opposition.) That Church was the last remnant of conquest — the hope and last refuge of ascendancy ; and so long as it existed it would be impossible to expel the fell enemy to the peace and prosperity of Ireland. Last year he was unable to vote for the motion of Sir John Gray ; but, looking to the present state of Ireland, and the change in the public sentiment, he could no longer conceal his feeling that the moment for action had arrived. If, then, the Government were found wanting, it would be for those who differed from them to submit a simple and intelligible issue, raising the question of the early and complete disestablishment of the Irish Church. This, if sanctioned by Parliament, would remove a scandal and mischief which had long afflicted the empire, and wipe out a stain from the shield of England. In conclusion, he reminded the House that, when the fruit was ripe and the hour had come, justice delayed was justice denied. Mr Disraeli, in replying to Mr Gladstone, retorted upon him the inaction of the various Liberal Cabinets with whicli he had been connected, in reference to Irish affairs. To the invitation that he should explain the course which the Government contemplated taking on the Ecclesiastical Titles Act, he answered that a motion on that subject would be brought before the House in a day or two, and that then he should have an opportunity of explaining the intentions of Ministers respecting it. He also declined to enter upon a discussion of Irish railways at the moment, inasmuch as that question had been referred to a Royal Commission, which in due course would report upon it. The proposal to grant a charter to a Romau Catholic university had been misunderstood. Government had not pledged themselves to endow the institution ; but had simply resolved upon a measure which they deemed, on the whole, the mostpracticable that could be devised, as well as the most just. There was but one mode by which the grevious complaint of Roman Catholics could be met, and that was by the establishment of a university for themselves. If they would not accept it, all he could say was they would have themselves to blame. The commission on the land question was, he urged, supplemental to legislation ; and if it should be found that further legislation was desirable he promised that the Government would not shrink from undertaking it. With respect to the Irish Church, he confessed that it was not in the condition he would like to see it, as the whole of the

population were not in communion with it ; hi* he was nofc prepared to suggest its disendowment. He feared that it political authority were divorced from religion a mere affair of police would be the consequence. A State Church was a bulwark against credulity and fanaticism. It could not be maintained without endowments, and he denied the moral right of the House of Commons to abolish them without an appeal to the country. For nearly thirty years the Whig party had been in power ; but they had not takeu any steps to educate the country on a question so important and momentous. It would be indecent in the House of Commons to come to a decision on an issue involving the whole social fabric, without an appeal to the new and enlarged constituencies which the Reform Act •of last session had called into existence. The ecclesiastical endowments of Ireland were, in his opinion, most desirable for the welfare of the country, and he would be no party to abolishing them, although he reserved to himself the right to act upon the suggestions of the Royal Commission with reference to any anomalies or abuses that might be proved to exist. He would'oppose the motion, because it would not lead to any practical result, especially at a moment when the Government were about to bring in measures which they believed would remedy the wrong of an afflicted nation.