PROVICIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Volume I, Issue 81, 9 December 1864, Page 3

PROVICIAL COUNCIL.

Wednesday, 7th November. The Speaker (Mr. Wilson) took the chaiv at half past seven.- There were only five other membe3 - s present then, but ten minutes afterwards the leading opponents of Dr. Menzies entered, and there being now a quorum, the Speaker opened the proceedings with prayer. THE STANDING- OKDEKS. Mr. STUART moved that the standing rules . and orders of last Council, be adopted as those of this Council. Dr. HODG-KINSON seconded the motion. Mr. M'NAB moved that a committee be appointed to draw up standing rules. (After consulting Avitli some friends, the lion, member asked leave to withdraw his motion). Mr. CUTHBERTSOU moved as an amendment that the standing orders of Council be laid before the Superintendent for his approval, in accordance with clause 24 of th Constitution Art. Mr. M'NAB seconded the amendment. The question was then put, and the amendment declared carried. DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES. On the motion of Mr. M'NAB, the Clerk read the minutes of last sitting. Mr. M'NAB moved that Mr. Heale's letter be inserted. Mr. MACDONALD said the letter was not laid on the table of the House, it therefore had no right to be in the minutes. Mr. M'JSTAB.— Any letter read in the House is a public document, and ought to be inserted in the minutes. Dr. MENZIES agreed with Mi. M'Nab. The SPEAKER ruled that the letter not having been placed on the table, it was not a document to insert in the minutes. Mr. M'KAB insisted that it should. On the question being put to the House, it- was declared the " noes " had it. A division was demanded with the following result : — Ayes — Messrs. M'Nab, Crerar, Cuthbertson, Jbhnstone, Swale, Nurse, M'Kellar, and Dr. Menzies — 8. ]Sfoes. — Messrs. Maedouald, Armstrong, Davies, Collins, Hay, Howell, Calder, Stuart, and Hodglauson — 9. Mr. STUART moved that in accordance with the Speaker's decision on Thursday evening the minutes be corrected. Mr. HAY seconded the motion. The SPEAKER asked the hon. member to put Ms motion- iii writing, which he did as follows : — " That before the mimites be confirmed, that part purporting to be a record of the Speaker's decision regarding the election of Mr. Heale, be corrected in accordance with the Speaker's explanation on Thursday evening." The SPEAKER— Before putting the motion it might be necessary to explain? Mr. M'NAB— There is no necessity for an ext planation. The SPEAKER — I call the hon. member to order. ......-' • Mr. M'IJAB — I am quite in order. j (Cries of "order, order," amid which Mr. M'JNab sat down. .,. -..•--.• .■,-.-. ;/ The SPEAKER then at . some length gave his views on* the subject. The reporters he said had made a mistake rri leaving out certain -words. His opinion was that it' -would -be wrong for liiih to decide one way or other,; and so lie left the matior an open question. -He had his own ideas, but that course he considered/ it his duty to follow as Speaker of the House. ( Mr. M'2JAB would have the reporters placed at :the bar of the House. , Mi*. CALDER did not see why the reporters should be called. Ifc was on?y wasfciag time. Mr.M'jSab— l don't care thcaigh we sitibr a month. Mr. CALDER did not wish to sit for a month. He considered that the Speaker should not' be tied up, or shut up, to the exact words he used in the Council. They all knew his meaning well' enough, and 'he (Mr. Calder) understood very clearly what was meant to be conveyed. An acrimonious discussion followed, in. the. course of which, the Speaker threatened to,givethe hon. member for Campbelltowu into custody. It having been stated that an honorable member was forcibly detained on one , side of the House, when the division. took place ou the .Superintendency. Mr. HOWELL declared he was glad his yote had been recorded as it was.' • < The SPEAKER having defended the course ho had taken, ./Dr. MENZEES said what they wanted was nqt what was meant to be said, but what was actually said, therefore it was desirable, to -have the- evidence of a person outside of the .Council, rj The r Speakei; was^pla'ced'in-the chair, not to givej an opinion, but a decision that, would -rule. 71 Ifithe^ decision was wrong, they had other authorities to

appeal to for redresa j but liieantime fchejt' &[& JA6fc want opinions as a decision. After some disoussioh, in which Mr. M'Nab took a prominent part, Mr. M AODONALD defended the Speaker, whose business was in matter* of . order in the House, arid nothing else. He (Mr. Macdonald) condemned the conduct of Mr. M'JKTab as disrespectful to the Speaker. ' ! Mr. M'NAB defied the Speaker to give him In charge' of a. policeman.. Ho only- wished it- had been done. He insisted on the reporters being placed at the bar of. the House. The SPE AKER— WiII you put them on oath ? : Mr. M'Nab^l am a> Justice of the Peace, and will put'them onoath in a minuto. ■/ • ';;• The SPEAKER— WiII you put your motion in '■ writing, sir ?: ."!;'.-" '.- ■ „c.: : ■ S- "; . ;.■'?..:■:.> .>. : ' Mr, M.'NAB— -I can't see Yei*y' well fby lamp light, but my friend Mr. Cuthbertson will do so. • The motion was then formally written, moved, and seconded. , „ „...; Mr. O ALDER wished td know if the House had power to examine any man at its bar. Mr; M'NAB said the previous Council had examined a great number of persons/ and he did not; ■see why the. present should hofc'do "so:- ) ; . Tho question' was -then p\\tv and declared' lost. ■ "'! The House thon divided on it when there voted for motion,- ayes— Messrs. M'Nab, Menzies, M'Kellar, Nurse, Swale, Johnston, Cuthbertson, and Crerar^— B. .'?■:" -' Noes — Messrs. Hodgkinson, Stuart, Calder, Collins,. Hay, Howell, Armstrong, Dnvies, and Macdouald— 9. ,''... ..-,.''' : The motion was" accordingly declared lost. . .' Mr. OUTHBERTSON moved iliafc tHe exaot alterations wished for in the minutes be specified. . -'■•■■■ ■ Mr. M'NAB seconded the motion. Mr. STUART wanted to add two words before putting the motion. Mr. M'NAB objected. Two words might make | a great difference. ' J ; ■ i Mr. CALDER appealed to the House to allow [the proposed alteration. It would simplify the proceedings. After a long discussion, the House divided on the amendment of Mr. Cuthbertson, with the following, result : — Ayes — 8. Noes — 9. The original motion with the Speaker's explanation, after a long discussion, which at times became personal, were then put and carried as follows : — " That the following explanation of Mr. Speaker, in reference to his ruling on Thursday morning, iv regard to Mr. Heale's election, be inserted in the minutes of that day, as the emendation required, in place of the part objected to." " The motion before the House, in reference to the election of Mr. Theophilus Heale as Superintendent of the Province of Southland, was carried by nine ' ayes ' against eight ' noes.' But in my opinion, that division did not result in the election of Mi\ Heale in accoi dance with what I believe to be the true meaning and intei'pretation of ' absolute majority ' in the 10th clause of the ' New Provinces Act. 3 " Mr. STUART moved, and Mr. HAY seconded, that the minutes as amended be eonfirmetl. Mr. M'NAB moved, and My. NURSE seconded, that the whole of the minutes be again read, which was agreed to. The Clerk having read the minutes, Mr. OALDER moved, and Dr. HODGKINSON seconded, that they be confirmed. Mr. M'NAB moved as an amendment, that the minutes be confirmed this day six months. Mi*. NURSE seconded the amendment. Another long discussion followed on what was actually going into the minute book, and this being settled, the House divided on the amendment of Mr. MNab, as follows : — Ayes, 8 Noes, 9. The members being the same as in previous divisions. The House then divided on the motion. Ayes, 9. Noes, 8. Division list the same. The SPEAKER accordingly declared the motion carried. FINANCIAL STATEMENT. The SPEAKER called on the select committee appointed to consider the financial condition of the Province to bring up their report. Mr. CALDER asked a little longer time. The members of committee were pretty well agreed as the course to be adopted, but the report -was not in such a forward state as to warrant their placing it before the Council. He therefore asked that it should bo made an order of the day for next sitting. Mr. ARMSTRONG- seconded the motion, which was agreed to. Mr. COLLINS moved that the House adjourn till to-morrow evening at half-past seven. Mr. HAY seconded the motion. Mr. CUTHBERTSON moved, as an amendment, that the House adjourn till the 2nd January, 1865. They were without standing rules or orders, and they could not go on with business till these were established, which might be done about that time. Mr. STUART deprecated this action on the part of the hon. member on the opposite side. The question was about being put, when it was found that the amendment had not been seconded. Mr. JOHNSTON then seconded the amendment. On the question being put, only the morer and seconder voted for the amendment, which was accordingly lost, and the motion was declared carried. The House then adjourned at 10.20 till next evening (Thursday) , at half-past seven.

Thursday, Dec. 8. The SPEAKER opened the sitting with prayer at a quarter to eight o'clock, p.m. The Clerk read the minutes of last meeting, which were confirmed PnoviisrciAii Accounts. The following letter from the Provincial Auditor was read. " Inrercavgill, 30th "November, 1864. Sir, — la compliance with the requirements of the Provincial Act, 1861, I have the honor to enclose the Accounts of the Revenue and Expenditure of the Province of Southland for the financial period of eight months, ending 30th Septein-. ber, 1864, together with a balance sheet of the assets and liabilities of the Province, which has been drawn up in strict accordance with a form transmitted to me for that purpose by the Colonial Secretary. I have to report that I have examined these accounts, that I find them to be correctly stated, that the expenditure has. been properly vouched, and that the unauthorised expenditure has been correctly and separately shown. " I liave tlie honor to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, " lIENK7 M'CXJUOCH, Provincial Auditor. The Speaker of the Provincial Council, Southland. FINANCE REPORT. " ' The SPEAKER called for the report of the : ■■; finance committee. Mr. CALBEE, asked delay for half-an-hour, and the House adjourned for that time. On thereassembling the following report of the committee was read : — REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL f STATB OF THE PROVINCE. _. " Yoiu* Committee have to report that at present the Province is in. a prostrate condition, and quite unable to meet its engagments,-without the assistance of .the -General Assembly. They have .closely. lexawined r the.-.public.,.,accounts ) . as, published^ leceiving - from^ the . Provincial , Treasurer varicms explanations thereon, and ? beg to lay the annexed , siiatemerit r 'before -the Council. The . total debt of the Province, on the 21st November, -amounted to £388,896 2s. lid. To ..finish the,. ; railway works and existing road' cdnfracts, : jwould . require a fiu-ther sum of about £60,000, ; which. : would swell the debt of the 1 PfoyinciB >; to? nearly;., £450,000, exclusive of our proportion of the New - ; Zealand Company's 'debt, ata6ixnting r ;tb"£18,O0O:' ■: To meet the intex-esfe'andsmyng-furid' upon loans to the. former amount 'wotddnecessifete; provisibh;' being- made ifor ; no"' less 1 ai ' sum than ' £36,000 'a'year. ■. ■ '-'^ '■'■■ Lii^- ; : -'■• ;'.^ i! -'.' ;'•,..-'•-■ ; ' *""- ; ' v ': > 1 - '■ ' ■ .It may here be - 6b'serTOd -that 'with : i ; egard to; the,< > tßuinr se^idqwn. ;as required to complete theurailway "works youiTcommittee are led to conclude" that a».

the estimate by the Engineer wag m&clfl previous to the execution of part of those .wprk.9— tlie amount duo foi\ which appears among the outstanding accounts — the sum actually requisite may probably be from £5,000 to £6,000 less than slated, It -will thus be apparent that £155,000 or thereby is required by this Province to meet its present engagements, and to finish the railway ■vvoi'k9. The sum of £40,000 is urgently needed to pay; off pressing liabilities. Although it -will take a considerable time to -prepare, -and to place upon the market even guaranteed debentures, your committee ai*e oonfident that a temporary advancemay be immediately secured in the event of the r.Q-eneral Assembly agreeing to guarantee a loan for this Provinoe to meet this diffioulty. . s a. Your Committee are uuanirnous in the-opinipn. that Provincial loans must receive -the Colonial guarantee before they-.: would sell at a fair value ; but are nofc ai one on the .question qi\ how much, it would bo prudent to ask the Greneral Assembly to guarantee for us, aiid therefore no suggestion is offered on this point, it being entirely.left to the. decision' of the Gouucil, ■ but ' would suggest immediate application being mado by the Council to the Greneral Assembly, and the appointment of some member of the House, or other individual thoroughly "'acquainted " '■with: 'the "affairs of the j Province, to proceed forthwith, to • Auckland, and j personally support tho claims of this Province; to the consideration of tho Greneral GrovernmemX W. H. CaIiBBR, Chairman. Mr. . CALDER moved that the report be " adopted. ' : ' - ' Mr. STUART seconded. . _ The motion was then put, and agreed to with* out division. : LOAXS. On the motion of Mr. OUTHBERTSON, seconded by Mr; M'NAB, a letter was read from the Chief Secretary at Auckland to the Speaker of the Provincial Council of Southland, referring to a communication from Mr. Fox to his Honor tho Superintendent of Canterbury, on the subject of guaranteeing Provincial loans, which has already appeared hi our columns. Mr. STUART, after a few remarks, moved the adoption of the following memorial : — "To THE HONOKABLE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The humble meinoi-ial of the Provincial Council of Southland. "Humbly sheweth: — " That at present the Province of Southland is in a totally postrate condition, and quite unable to meet its engagements, without the assistance of the G-eneral Assembly. "That your memorialists have carefully examined the Provincial Accounts, and beg to lay the following statement before you. Statement op the Liabilities of the Peovisce op Southland. — 21st November, 1864. Greneral Revenue Account — Contracts £4,708 17 1 Immigration 1,874 12 8 Salaries 3,12S 4 9 Miscellaneous 3,085 15 3 Bank of New Zealand amount guai'auteed on account of ' Town Board 10,000 O 0 Bank of New South Wales 17,553 17 10 BankofOtago 85,334 i 5 Bank of New Zealand _ 551 2 3 | Greneral Government balance of advance 21,60S 2 8 £147,84-1- 16 11 Bluif Harbor and luvereargiil Railway account — Bank of "New South Wales 159,590 14 11 Completed contracts, and outstanding accounts 19,088 9 10 £178,679 4 9 Oreti Riiiwaly Account — - Bank of Otago 50,933 17 9 Bank of New South Wales 6,037 19 S Outstanding Accounts 5,350 4 3 £62,352 1 3 £388,876 2 11 Lees Balances at Banks of Otago, and New Zealand on Railway Refuud Account... 1,455 1 5 £387,421 1 6 Contingent Liabilities under existing contracts — Bluff Harbor and_ Invercargill Railway 30,000 0 0 Oreti Railway 30,000 0 0 Roads 1,877 0 0 £61,877 0 0 Total Liabilities £449,298 1 6 Ck. Debentures (1863) Bluff Harbor and Invercargill Railway, sanctioned but uot guaranteed ; held by Bank of New South Wales in security for overdraft ! 140,000 0 0 Do. do. (186 4) 40,000 0 0 Do. do. 1864, Oreti Railway, sanctioned, but not guai'anteed — held by the Bauk of Otago, in security for overdraft 110,000 O 0 £290,000 0 0 £159,293 1 6 " Tliat it will be seen from the foregoing statement, the total debt of the Province, on the 21st November last, amounted to £388,876 2s. lid. " That to finish the railway works and existing road contracts would require a farther sum of ! about £60,000, which would swell the debt of the . '; Province to nearly £450,000, exclusive of its proportion of the New Zealand Coy.'s debt, amounting to £18,000. ; " That to meet the interest and sinking fund fro the sum of £450,000 would necessitate ' provision being made for the sum of at least £36,000 more. i "That thus it, appears about the sum of. £160,000 is required by this Province to meet its present, engagements, and to finish the railway - works. ■ " j "Your memorialists therefore humbly pray that ■ your Honorable House will consider the present j condition of the Province' of Southland, grant SUCh assistance as may be necessary, and your memorialists will ever pray." ( ' Mr. COLLINS seconded the motion. ( Mr. CALDER, after pointing out certain errors < in the memorial, yet -supported its adoption by j .the House. / Withlarge pressing liabilities and no . available balance, he thought we should be unaru- ( mous in laying a statement before the Government.: -;As to .the railway's, we . should do our utmost to complete" tlVeni, and urge then 1 claims before the Greneral Assembly. 1 Mr. ARMSTRONG snpported the. motion. Dr. MENZLES regretted that a mail had been lost, and': that the memorialjgoing up would just arrive in Auckland in time to be too late. He defended the ■ action: of the Government as to the railways, and was. of. opinion that ultimately they would be re-productive works. The itioiion that the report be adopted was then put and carried. Mr. STUART said he intended that there should be added to themotion that the memorial should be given to the, members for the County , of Wallace for presentation to tho General He moved, accordingly, and' the motion was agreed to without dissent. ' OUR AtTCKLAKD COITJIISSIONJER. „ ' _ My. CAJjDBH, after a long pause in the pro'Geodintrs of- tho Houso, .advocated, that, Mr. Pearson should proceed to Auckland •in accordance with- the report of the Select Committee. Dr. HODKINSON seconded the motion. . ' , Off the, question- being put, there was no dis-.. sentient voice,", and the _ SPEAKER declared the motion carried: ' ' - L ■"■ * *'-* . v. ' &

Mr. MAODONALD inoyod thattho House adjourn till twelve o'clock noon of tlio elevonth January, 1865. Mr. * ARMSTRONG- soconded the motion j which, aftor a few remarks from Dr. MENiJIES, was unanimously agreed to. , The House then adjourned at 1Q.15 p.m. j