PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Southland Times, Volume I, Issue 27, 2 August 1864, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

\ JTOT, 1864. * The House' met" at seven p,.m. Mr. Wilson was elected Speaker for the evening. % The minutes of previous, meeting were read and confirmed. MESSAGE NO. 6, The following message from His Honor the Superintendent, was read to the House : — "To the Provincial Council of Southland :— # * " The Superintendent acknowledges the receipt of a set of resolutions passed by the Provincial Council on the 28th inst., and he concurs in the propriety of making provision to^meet outstanding liabilities. 'The Provincial -Treasurer will detail the arrangements which, -the Provincial Govern; ment proposes to make to effect this object. " Any measure of this kind, however, can have ithe effect of giving only temporary relief from pressure.' Itis manifest that the Province '< must obtain a large sum by way of loan in order to meet the contingent liabilities by permanent arrangement. ■ " Seeing that the General Assembly absolutely refuses to entertain the idea of - sanctioning: any furtherprovincialloanß at' the present time, the only alternative that reinains is to 'obtain a loan by act of the General Assembly: ' ? !' . • „ .'i-The Provincial Treasurer proposed certain resolutions calculated to facilitate -. this- ;- ! these' the :■ Council has rejected." ,T?M Superintendent,' thereforefore earnestly requests Council, to point out any other way by which' those liabilities may be permanently arranged, and -to -which it, will agree. :..._. ; ;..,..w - '.' cr-.^rr \—%.'' K , " Estimates^for' the! .current quarter are,fin preparation, arid wiE be laid before the Couh^^ "J. A. R. Menzies, Superintendent. "Superintendent's .Office; \\i'ji v-V :. " : :' ::' \ " Southland, 3rd July, 1864.!'. C '' [' 2BESH ESTIMATES. _■ . ' ■■: :\ The Provincial Tseausbeb then' laW on f the table an- estimated statement;, of the, revenue iand. expenditure : 6f the province for the three 'months ' endmg 30taSeptembeff 1864 ~ ( „. ./,,",' ..' •„. .'. : ' : ' ■■'- HIS HOyOE's'ItESSAGB;' ■' 'if/ ■ ' The Pkovinciai. 'TbeaMjbbb! moved jthe message just read betaken into! consideration. ' Mr. Calder seconded. : , ; :;:On the motion of Mr; Armstrong,: seconded hj : Mr. Pearson, the document was again read to the House. _ _ The Peovikcial Teeastteee then rose and said he hoped the Council would excuse hiin'bringirigfor-i ward a subjectwhich had beenialluded torby the Superintendent ; but nothing had been proposed by the House whereby the pressing requirements of the Province might be met. The first subject alluded to in 1 the message' referred to the motion of the hon. member on his right (Mr. Calder) for . theissuing. of . .warrants , by, the Superintendent, to those wishing them, acknowledging them aR creditors of the Province to the extent of these claims, which would be liquidated at an early date ; so that those parties; may obtain advances on these warrants from the banks. The* hon. member had had been in the habit of giving such acknowledgments to parties wishing them,-.? but ; the question now arose as to interest being paid on, these claims. He had never felt 'himself .warranted in allowing interest, not being' authorised ., by | the Council to do so. This motion, however, ;met this, so tliat in future the Government -would be prepared to grant acknowledgments bearing iniriterest, in order that .relief may be 'experienced by those who were oppressed, in consequence of the present inability of the Government to meet their claims. The second matter touched upon was certain propositions which laid been laid before the Council j in the earlier part of the session by him. Feeling then, that an Executive Council should be appointed, lie did not press,. the resolutions; but, afterwards seeing that such was not to be ; the case, and also, that no other suggestioa had been made for extricating the Province from its embar- ; rassed, he had courted a discussion on the matters contained in the resolutions. It was impossible that the Province could continue, from month to month, in its present state unless' something were ; done ; and the suggestions made in those resolutions was the only way by which the " Province could hope to be relieved. "Any -other suggestion, would be utterly fruitless. , He was., perfectly con-, vineed that the General Assembly would not grant any further loan to any particular Province,' and was extremely sorry,that the resolutions regarding the consolidation of loans had been struck' out. ' (Mr; Calder— No, no, not struck out:) " Then, if they were not: struck but, were they passed? No proposal has yet been put forth m this, or in any other Province, on this subject ; and it Was plain that the debte^of the f Provinces must be niefe — as, if not, the trade and commerce of the whole Colony must always remain, more or less in ado-, pressed state. The principle must be enunciated, that the loans to the Provinces ; % must be' made by the General Government, by a consolidated loan. Mr. Calder did not very, well understand I the/ meaning of His Honor's message, and still less the, •Provincial Treasurer's statement. - After reading the resolutions passed by the House- he could! not understand how rhe Provincial Treasurer cpuldsay they had rejected the only plan" whereby: the , province might be relieved from ; its difficulties. The only portion of the resolutions rejected, was that having reference to the - consolidation' v »of provincial loans; It- seemed to him that :'the House had done what the message desires, (hear, hear) and simply because we reject the proposal consolidated loans, there is, an attempfrto force this matter again on the Council. Seeing wel could not agree with His Honor ori the subject, we asked him to send down something of his own, and> we!' were most willing to meet his views. The Council has gone out' of its' way to do' so, ' but instead of , being. metias we had hoped for; the message now sent down is not consistent with what we had resolved, on, or . with what we at first-stipulated, for. What does it. mean? , If His HonorV message does not mean, the same thing over again' then he didn't. understand language. The second resolution passed' by the Council also "calls forithe convention of the General: Assembly, and on the whole,, he thought" there 'was an appearance of. forcing theSresolutions~6f "the ProvinciarTreasurer; on the House. ! He /then' remarked that he had; reiterated the distress prevalent in the 'province] so much; that he 'thought it; niight ■ have almost became a nuisance in their ears. He himself had. a large' stake in the province; and wishedrtpjsee .a better state of things, and on- then whole, io castj reflections ontheiGouncnJ.that: they had I rejected" the only measure submitted to them. for. -relief from its embarrassments, was most unjust; and~ inexplicable. /.---.- - ■■ Mr. Abmsteong- thought it looked very much like an attempt to force the resolutions upon the Council. They had been fully discussed by ( the House- Some of the clauses had been passed, and some struck out, and he thought it now too late to re-open the subject. They had shown great' patience in the matter, , and he ' would throw the whole responsibilly on the Superintendent. Mr. Harvey 1 regretted 'that the House .was not at the first informed by the Treasurer that the resolutions submitted by him emanated from His ■ Honor. • ' The PEOvaKOiAL Tbeasubeb. — I never stated that they did. MY, HaeVet. — We understood aB- much when the Provincial Treasurer said they had received his entire concurrence, Railly,'-if we are not to accept the statement of 'the only responsible minister of the Superintendent, how in the name of goodness are we to arrive at any correct conclusion? The 'hon. member thought the resolutions had been tabled by the Provincial Treasurer, as a feeler to see if "he -possessed the confidence of the House. ., They^ had been deferred- till the, last moment, and now, when half the seats in the House were empty, and the members gone home, they were brought before their notice. It waa the only business which was expected to bo before them, but now,' when they had left, it appeared that the House was only now going ' to begin its wort. • jT , " ',',.' ' Mr. Pearson entirely coricurreci -with the remarks which had fallenfromthVprevious speakers. On referring 'to ''"this "ineWgV of- His' 'Honor, he

ia^ptefaly tiSltt :the |^tble blatoe^vras being Hhxywi^d the*sk<julders^qf;the Provincial ConnciL ; He entirely repudiated f&is:. He haid f himself brougHfc?|6rwai^rssoiuticmß for,a Ananciklscliema tobsj?lai<| befOTeithe^Hb.use, yet^bt%^^Tiacial Treasurer had^MdXtliaC'His ' Horica*?£newi- of no other plan thanlbhtfeembodied in his resolutisns, — and what is the plan ? If there is any . i benefitJo.bet4eriyed,^the A Gonn^has^ah!ea^iy i . njet% it, and it has done itsjujmost to meot the views of ' His MonorV The; cpl^lidatfonj of/loans clause . was struck 'out by the Council, as they felt it -was .d^cjaimg : to^ conduct tHew;^affatts._3|ti"wa3ad^MTig' them how x> manage 1 tfie& own^affairs.^Proraicial Treasurer — Noyno!) Yes, and I" think the Council' has done jther t most> 'reasonable land^justf-Jthing they could^db^to prevent' th'd'Pfofince of Southland being made a laughingrstock in the eyes of Ifew Zealand. He then referred to the clauses of the iresolu.ti6nß which had-been)st£uck- put, sand as to the General Assembly being! called|tbgeflier, he stated jfchati the' P^sJ^one of.the r pjqst Trnfluential and ably conducted, journals in the'Golony) 1 had strongly protested againstdt: v for..the consideration of the .affairs 'of the Maori, war. Wpuld it be Sexpected^ then; l that it would [be callecl' together to • dis'cussj the .financial affairs of "the'little Province of Southland? , He,entirely : .;repudiatsd this, as tho wish of the Council of Southland. " 7: The PBbviirerAi. Te^asijbeb now-addressed the i House at great length in suppprfc of .the policy of the resolutions submitted to the House. * (We havo previously 'reported the" arguments^brdughttp'bear on -the siibject/and 1 think- it- unnecessary to v iagain repeat them) . ., r He concluded .by insisting that there was "no ' J 6ther plan : whereby the Province could hope to be relieved from its embarrassments. ';■'■■■ ' > vMr. GAiii>Eß,follpwed;at length, and/concluded by saying, that viewing the whole question he said ihafrthe Provincial ; Tx*easurer ■■mi-drawing up the memorial should submit.it- the House, embodying the resblutibns "as passed • but even though he did not . agree to' ail' the clauses in the original resolutions^ he would 'not altogether, object to a reference to", them being onade/fie would cordially support the anemorial. -,:■■■ f^' : ~ '^v^ -; V^: w ""'■' MrVPEABSOif brieuy secfoniied the-vietVß "6f the previous speaker. . " The subject then dropped: - CHTTEck.op Eif&iajfD cemetebtoedinanceVlß64. The third reading of this bill was moved, and 'itjpSssed in committee. U. .''lJi-'' S:J) The Chairman reported progress. The bill was -then, adopted by the House. THE ESTIMATES. s_ .The,PßOYmqiAi.T^ES.UßEßJsaid:T^lt;i^ be seen'from the estimated statements laid before the House, that there has been a considerable, reduction in the number of officers employed, and also in their salaries-^-especially in the higher salaries. He admitted that the festimafe did riot show very favorably as regards revenue and expenditure. The ..estimated/expenditure >i for'thel .Shree months ending 30th September, was £12,928 12s. 10d., wliile <: -the "available- revenue' ; was'-'bnly- :^68,050. Over the one half of the expenditure, however, they had no control. There was a sum of £5060 lls. 3d. required to "cpniplefe " existing road' can.tracts.\,rWhen he ; entei^dinto i office, there were works iripfogre'ss to the'eitentof^£3o,ooo, ;.to be met. There was also a sum of £1000 for Immigration purposes, over which they had no control, and which' must be- r me't. Th'efe jwei-e j. three; vessels now on their way, or. expected, from Britain ; but if these, sums 'had not. to be. paid-^tlijere jvpuld only have had to be an expenditure 0f'£6968 6srßd..as against an available revenue of £8050, not including the revenue , from Crpwn_ lands, which had* been impressed in security for the 1^ £45,000 loan. , The f expenditure, as estimated, , could not • possibly ' be decreased, with a due regarcL'fo the efficiency of the public service.-- There: -would be an : Appropriation Bill brought iiij and he was _ prepared to go over the various items, but thought they should i bepassed at; once by 'a'resdlution oftke House. The House went inta ; Committee^ : .• --yrj. ■X s. Mr. Wilson was elected chairman. '' J " ' P_ } ■•"..Item:- "£270, Superintendent's department,"-^ passed. ' . ' . . :'': Item " £200, Treasury department,"-*— passed. A, considerable diiscussioiiihere: endued. , „-- The item was passed. ' Item I ,' " : £155, Provincial Council," passed. Item,;. ",£z>Q i{ Provincial Solicitor," passed. t Item, is %loo, Provincial Auditor's Department," ■' passed!' •''.'■'• ■ Item, ~" Registrar " of -Brands andPoundkeeper, "£l7:los,' ? ;passea i .;K ! t ;'Qrj A c ■■: Item^ ( 'Survey v^epartm^t,>£^34 Hs, Bd," passed^^lViOOl.rjb If. \:n: 'v?;;'rl^f-"''T' " " The PBOViNCiAi.ffBESXrBEBpm the passing of this item,' took occasion to express his iregretat'the"/ departure' ffoW the. Province of Mr. .Heale,.the..Chief.Surveyor. , * | i, Mr« Peabson rose, and, said. he. .could., not let the Opportunity pass Svitiiout' expressing liis deep sprro>y at the departure of Mr. Heale. Jffe himself had! ''been', often under .deep;' obligations to him r from the ' -valuable advice 'he .'tiad ' received from 'him,' and lamented 'tha't tlie'Prpianpe.shotild lose .the. services of . so: eipcient an'd! : generally" esteemed a pubh'c' servant:*' " lie desired to record his deep "'regre'fi'at-ffie'&epa^ Item, " Engineer's Department, £141 135. 4d," „after_.a_short^.discussipji_.^...l^ " was jreducedjpy £100 a year. Item passed. » Alt?beihg nbw ! half-ps,s!r'ten^ pfm., theTCHAiBMAK repsrted progressj' and tasked leave to- sit again. The House then adjourned until Monday even'fing,%&severib'clocE' ■*'*& v," -fc :.■'<• '- : ; ■- ■'■ r ; Mokdat, -Ist Atotxst, 1864. The House 1 met at'T'p'ih: 5 as/xisual. Mr. Wilson was elected deputy-Bpeaker. The minutes of previouV'sit&ig were reM r and confirmed. VI?-) *-■;"} iaiEMOBrAL ToJrBieKEOBeEiGBEYi ; :; . The PbovilwClAL Tbeasubeb laid on the table the memoriaLof -they Cpuncil^to -the Governor on . the fliiancial' ':>. 3?he i fpllpwirig is .a "copy Jof. the .document :- — / ? j " The memorial -of the Provincial Gpuncii: of the (Province of ■ Southland, . in r |the colony 'of j New ,2lealandy assembled; i: •';•;•-:, ■■ji'i ■'ihra '/'{ <-< i. ; y "rT.o (His Excellency Sir George jGrey, lEnight . i o.Connnander of; :the ; most honorable iorder of the ; Bath/: Gpyernor f: and • C6niniander-in- , .■■. Qhief „in^ and. over Her; Majesty's colony of . , '. .'. I^ew, Zealand* ;.andv,if|' ; 4^P?ndehcie3,, and '•. „vice:-admiral, vice : -admiral^ .-,'pf^ J ,the_ saih'e,r t &c^; &c. . !, ~* ".SibV— Certain^^ Ordinances ,'lxaving, been' passed by thePrpvincial Council of tins and other Pro- ' viiice's : *ni^ : thi3 •• colony-' : which" - ; have received the sanction' i of : your' • Excellendy for the " pm*po'se of raismgrlpansjiby -the aalejof Debentures, and the negotiating' of these; loans rin^- the Londonimarket -being.v^diaicult.^bec.ause,,_tiie^se.curitieß simply a Provincial guarantee, it is most desirable for the well-being, nofc" only of tlie Provinces, but bf^the colony at' large, that'such guarantee "should, be enlarged, and tbat-tlic colonial guarantee should be given to the same by act of the General Assembly ;>xand. as .the;} necessities- of \ the, 'ProSrinces';' immediately.: affected are,jvery : urgent, we \ would earnestly entreat your Excellency: to sum- i monthe General Assembly to mjeetat the earliest | practicable : time,! in brdbr tortakeithis matter j into consideration. Also, that your Excellency j .would be pleased to, set apart for the/charges for ; interest and; sinking fund on, the loans ,whicb.,may ; be thus guaranteecl. on- behalf < of' ( ariy -Province such ja sum as mayjbe^qwsife^om'the land an > « cusfom!s revenues ,of^teucn-Prbvince as they arised your inSmdr alists will ever pray." ■The PBOViNCiAii^ Tbeascbeb (seeing no one v rose to "move Hb adoption)^ 'characterised it as^ very "milk-and- water, dpcument, arid he did n" wonder that no/member rose* to adopt it. It wa 3 not & memorial which at all 'satisfied him, or met ! suggested anything whereby they might "be relieved of them; - ; As a'egards ;, loans he w,puld say that v : we request the G^er^i^Assembiy' to guarantee l ,them, it would be. tantamount to inducing, t})? m , *° j 'refuse >israriyCsueh.i^^ If was also , necessary^' imperative^ that %e npvrt^btain nioney, , as:fit -was ?4)erfectly jo^vipus . jthatj flieiijPfOTinc* \ .cquHnp^ipfitsj^fi^^ \ ■ The inemprwl:l)eing^ jeact' a' second 'tioie, . f Mjr. Afi^TEO^^6k^&iiS®ib flic" oaiiss 1011 ; .of'dertaan^words'^em^p^^^ aS \ to - "iliSKaniß<which had^receiTed^ or which may rt

i

ceive, the a9sent of the General Assembly." He found no reference to loans in the memorial at aIL, „ „ The Provincial Tbeabttbeb contended that there was such reference. Mr. r Pearson supported the, objectipn to the ■ •Wording of the memorial; He then referred to ' the Treasurer's statement that 'the General Government would advance a sum immediately, on the meeting of the General Assembly, out of ,the loans to be consolidated. He strongly disbelieved this, but thought that enough had already been said on the subject.' The hon. member then ' showed how improbable it was, that the General Government would be called together, and ran 'Over the subjects which would have a priority, of discussion ere the affairs of this Province would receive their . attention, even although -it should' meet- * , ' Mr. Calder coincided, and .explained at length his views on the matter f concluding by stating it as his opinion that the bare resolutions, as passed, had much better be sent alone, in lieu of the me--1 morial. The resolutions were clear, concise, and to tho point, whilo the memorial was the very opposite. ' ■ The subject then dropped. , ISSTJE OP "WARRANTS. The Pbovincial Treasurer asked for a dol\finite expression of the. opinion' of the ' ' Council as to tho particular form of warrant to bo issued b;/ the Superintendent. It was 1 liecassary that >tie • Council should do something in the matter, and he would move the following resolution, without notice, in lieu_ of the motion •passed last :week, with a view to the House expresaing a more l definite form oi ' its opinion. •■•?.■ ; " {> Th|it in order to meet certain outstanding liabilities, it is expedient that the Provincial Government should -grant acknowledgments in Buch a form >as 'may be most readily negotiable, without assuming the form of a ordinary promis- j sory note:" '"''"' 1' " : ." 'MivGAiDEB seconded the laiothionl Mr. Peabson saidj/inL assenting to this he begged-to be understood that .the document must not be similar to that printed lately in Dunedin, or likel a bank note, '".or '■. anything of that sort. The. Council could never assent to such a thing, 'asillegaL ' -. ■ _ ■•■-■-•'•■• The motion waa carried. ..■,.. '' : ■■_■"•' •■'■.' : BESPOHtSIBIIiITY. '.".' ':■ : Mt/HabveyV obtained leave to move, without notice, the following motion :— ' ... '.",.-. " That whereas $is Honor the Superintendent wbb determined .not to. govern in terms of the Provincial /Government Ordinance, passed unanimously by the Council at it last session, this Council is of opinion that it should repudiate the * shadow ' of responsible Government at present in ; existence, by declaring that the Provincial Trbasui-ership is not 'a political appointment, and that that officer, Under existing "circumstances,, is .'not responsible to the Council. The' ; Council "being of opinion that the Superintendent arrogated / to himself all the functions of Government, should be " held entirely responsible for the conduct of affairs." , ;.-..■ The hon. member thought that this motion should be passed by the House, both in justice to the Superintendent, and also to the Council — in justice to the former^ .because if he gets the Province really out of its difficulties, he should be ' entitled to the honor,— in' justice to the Council " that they should be relieved -of 'all' responsibility ' in the unfortunate position of the affairs of the Province.. He thought the Council should not break up without protesting against the attempt which was being so apparently made to force the ' responsibility "of the "present position of affairs on its shoulders. '••': v ;; ; Mr. Scott differed. Mr. Caider thought the latter clause expressed his entire sentiments, He considered it did not refer to the Provincial Treasurer. If he were the :; Treasurer it would be just as he wished. It - placed the burden on the back of him who should bear it. Mr. HARVETdid not mean for one moment to throw any blame on the Provincial Treasurer, and ..considered it would be very wrong if the Council did not exonerate him from any reflections which . his. very uncomfortable position might excite. The Treasurer had withstood-agreatamount of questioning, such as few could- have met, and it not only regarded his own management of financial affairs, bat also of his predecessor. The, PBOvnrciAl Tbeasttrer replied in vindication of the course he had pursued. • He had only one remark to make on the motion before the House, andihat was, that he took exception to the word ". constitutionally." ; " Mr. H^yirr'.— Would the Provincial Treasurer ' move .fflai the word be stuck out ? •/-' > The'^Pbotdtciaii TBEAstrßEß' (after looking at ' the motion) Yes^ I move that it be struck out. Mr!'HAßEf.— Well, twill second it. '■' !f Motion carried. '•'•'•' '■" :: ' The original motion, as amended, was then iput and carried, as above prmted. ' ' ; : : THE ESTIMATES. After a discussion on the advisability of passing the estimates in gloto, suggested by the Provincial Treasurer, the Honse determined in going - into Committee on then* consideration. Mr. Wilson was elected chairman, and the various itemß were considered. ; Item, Telegraph Department, £192 10s;, passed ■without discussion. '•'' • l '' , Item, Jetties and Wharves Departniert „£273 6s. Bd., passed. ; A considerable reduction of the expenditure in this department was resolved upon. ; f u ' : Item, £5,060 Us. Bd;V for existing road:contracts, passed. ; - : bT \ ""'■ ' Item, Harbor Department, £1.101, passed. A discussion arose, 'and^'reduction was : also resolved upon here. 1 Infer alia, the Eivertpn jetty dues are to be abolished as the cost of collection exceeds the revenue. • Item, Police Department, £1,483 Is. 2d., passed. Item, Gaol Department, £641 ids., passed. Item, Hospital Departineiit, £502 10s.-, passed. ; 'Item, Sheep Inspector, &c, £137 lOs.j passed, after discussion. •;; . : - " Item, Cattle Inspectors, &c.^- £45, passed. : • Item, Education Department, £360, passed. Itemiir Immigration Department, £1,077 10s., ;" passed.-:: '"i i. -■-.■■. :.;:■:.-; •. : .,n^i \ ■ ■.■ Item, ; Miscellaneous, £lj2oo. passed. . . :.:■• Item, £590 4s— rEailways, passed. i . The ; Chairman, reported, progress^' and the estimates were.passed by ;the House. "s-. ' HIS HOKOB'SvMESSAQ-Ey V' Mr. Caxdeb thought? the ? message No. 5, which had been brought forward at a late meeting, . fihouldbe again taken iip, as : nothing had at the time been done in reference to the matter. The message had stated that 1 the resolutions ; of the Treasurer's had beenrejectcd. f This ; was- not the exact state of matters; and it was right that some ; sort pf reply be sent to the message, in order to : properly represent the views of the Council on the subject. ; After entering at length on the' various : pomts at issue, he would' move for -leave 'to make • a motion for a reply being sent to His Honor's -'messaged ' -■ ■. .-'■'■■.''•■' '';'' ' ■■_-:■[ Mr. Peabsost seconded this, and, '-■ Mr: O*^fiTgtt th^Ti rfia^JT^^ag^^aJ3^wa^-j-|-

and hoped it would recommend itself to the Hoii^e.' ■'.■; : --".." : '■'■;'*■' '"'.J.^ '•■';■.■'.';. -,'^'': ."■.-; " Mr. TTatcvey' siiicl as it was late he would move at opco the adoption of the reply, without adding any remarks of his own. ~ The Pbovinciali Tbeasttrer suggested any allusion to the Superintendent, such as occurred in the reply * now read, as imprudent. It was not fair to kick a. person when down, and it was not always prudent to tell a party to his face the truth, or the opinions with which he was'regarded; -■ ;•■:'? Mr. CaIiDER replied; and maintained that the terms of the reply should not be disturbed. He concluded by seconding the adoption of the reply. LEAVE OP ; ABSENCE. Leave of absence was given to Mr. Nurse for the remainder of the session. . '/ THE ESTIMATES. The Pbovixoial Treasurer begged to move a resolution -in lieu -of the Appropriation Ordinance. There was no further business before the House, and he thought the plan he proposed "would finish the business of the session. The motion found no seconder, and the House adjourned at 11.15 p.m., till this evening, at six p.m.