HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

South Canterbury Times, Issue 2268, 24 June 1880, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Civil. SKUVICK COMMISSION, 'Macamlrcw asked if the whole of the evidence upon which the report of the Royal Commission on the Civil Service is formed, will be laid before the House ; and also, whether the Covernment will be good enough to lay before the House a return showing the nature and extent, of the transactions in which the Commissioner of Railways for the Middle Island is alleged to be a- partner ; also, whether or not before the report was presented, the Commissioner of Railways had an opportunity of rebutting the charges and imputations made against him. Mr Oliver replied that the. evidence hadnotbe.cn received by (iovernment, and they did not known the intentions of the Commission on the subject. They b ad no information as to the other queries put. Mr Drown moved the adjournment of the House, and in doing so insisted that it was of the utmost importance that the evidence in question should be produced. Mr Cishorne said Covermnent should insist upon seeing the evidence. A most alarming report, had been presented, and the country had a right to know whether the report was based open reliable evidence.

i\lr Haeandrcw said he felt surprised at the reply made by 'the Government. It the statements made by tiic report were true, the South Island .Railway Commissioner should bo discharged. Ho thought they siiould insist upon'the evidence. As t.o the first part of the report, he could, have written it in his own of’lico.

Hr Oliver said, it was to be presumed some portion of the evidence would be produced. The South Island. Commissioner had been, instructed to male a. fid I report, in whicJi case they would har e his statement 'On the point. Air Speight said that this was one of the lirst resul ts of Government by Commission. Ho was sure unreliable evidence bad been produced, and they bad a rigid to know that reliance was to be placed on tbc evidence as a whole. ■ Hr Reeves concurred, adding it that was understood tbc Commissioners bad resigned, and every opportnnily should be given to the ohieers a vlmsc diameters were assailed to clear (h einseh es-oi the aspersions thrown on tin mi.

Mr Murray could well understand Unit much of: the evidence was given in a conlidential way, and would suggest the appointment of a committee to enquire into all the facts. Mr Moss said there was a statement made in the report not only affecting the professional, hut likewise the person a! character of men in responsible positions. He thought, seeing there was no evidence in support of the report, the report itself should bo thrown out of doors. He knew of his own knowledge that secret evidence had been taken, evidence which would not bear the, scrutiny of public opinion. Mr Hall thought it was a pity this discussion should be revived at this particular moment. It would have to be discussed, and when all the documents were laid on the table would be the proper time. He apprehended the evidence would be forthcoming, and he had no reason to doubt that all the evidence on which the report was based would be forwarded to Government, who would lay it on the table. Instead of disparaging the Commission, he i.hought the country was deeply indebted to it. He did not say that Government agreed with all that was set forth in the report, still ho would say that it contained many valuable suggestions. Mr J)o Lautour said that the report had been in a manner tampered with. Ho moved as au amendment to the motion for adjournment, that a copy of the evidence lie furnished to the ollicors whose conduct is impugned. The Speaker ruled this out of order. Mr Seddon said the evidence might be an 1 ilisln*d, but the names of witnesses s!11j11!1 1 he withheld.

Captain Kussc*] 1 spoke in favor of Hie evidence being published. They who gave evidence anil were afraid to have it known were cowards. Mr Oliver said as soon as the evidence was sent to them‘they woidd furnish a copy to tin, 1 , officers implicated. Mr Stewart quoted Parliamentary authorities to show that (iovernment was not lion ml to produce (he evidence sought. Mr Andrews snpporled the proposal that the. evidence should he published.

Mr Hutchinson did not see what the ividenee would do towards assisting diem to understand the report. He had i very strong opinion about the ne;essity for retrenchment in the Hail way 1 tepartment. Mr McLean said that was just a sample of what they might expect if the Government attempted any interference with the Civil Service. He believed that the !I tail way Commissioner of the South Island would come out of the enquiry better than they imagined. It .vould turn out that the railway service had been a sort of relief for the destitute. It had not always been the fault of the J’ailway Commissioners but men had been thrust upon them by other influences.

Mr Harron said that if the charges made against the South Island Commissioner were correct, lie should not be kept one day longer in the service of the Government.

Mr Johnson thought it was improper for Government to lay the report before Parliament until they had the evidence.

Mr Tyke also snpporled that view of die question. They were sitting there to some extent as a jury, and in that capacity it was necessary they should have the evidence before them. He eontended tiiat tberepmt itself showed that it was defective. If the charge made against the South Island Commissioner was false, that officer would be entitled to the largest possible, compensation a Court of law would award him. Mr llollcston said be bad no doubt but dial t! 10 evidence would be produced, and the fullest possible opportunity would be afforded the officers implicated to rebut the charges made. Tim report in a garbled form bad been actually stolen, and in that form it appeared in print sonic days before it was sent in. The Government was not responsible for that. *

.Sir George Grey denied that the Opposition was standing in the way of making retrenchment. He took it that fair enquiry should have been made into all the acconnls of the case where charges were made against odicers. The service <• contained men of high ability and integrity, and these accusations would tend to damage the service. He was glad to hear that Government was not, privy to the premature publication of (lie report and that its publication was facilitated by a fraud.

Major Atkinson was glad Hie House took such a dec]) interest in the character ol'lhe Civil Service,though the debate had proceeded on a false issue. Did anyone know whctlicr or not the Commission did not give a copy of the evidence to the ollleers implicated ? This was a covert attack on the Commission, and not an attempt to defend the Civil .Service.

Mr Montgomery said they had got out of thet iovernment that the report was stolen, and that the theft had been made for the purpose of publication in Government newspapers. The motion for the amendment was then put, and negatived on the voices. Dr Wallis gave notice that he would ask (iovernment to state, for the information of the House, at what hour copies of the Civil Service report had been furnished for transmission by telegraph to the Auckland “ J lerahh' Christchurch *’ I’ress' 1 and "Otago I'ailv Times. - ’ and given to the "New Zealand Times."’

Mr Junes gave notice that- lie would ask what, slops had boon taken lo punish the culprit who is alleged to have stolen a copy id! the Civil Service Coimuission’s report, as stated by (ioverumeiit. Mr Cisbornc asked whether the report presented by the Civil Service Commission is considered by Government to be an interim or final report. Mr Hall replied that the Commission had been returned, and that therefore it had no longer an ofiieial existence, x o - c o x r inn x c r: i > i: at i- . This debate was resumed by Mr Thompson. He contended that it was the people of Hew Zealand and not any particular Government who were responsible for the present depression. Mr Whitaker moved that the House adjourn. Mr Turnbull objected to an adjournment. and speaking to it, proceeded to discuss the main question. _ Ho blamed the Treasurer, by his injudicious alarm, for having injured the public credit. What he proposed was to assist Government in doing that which they had so long neglected, namely to rectify the evil as it existed. They should lirst of ail decide upon a permanent form of taxation, and for that reason he advocated a Laud Tax in preference to a Property Tax. Ministers acted rightly in reducing, or proposing to red.nee. (heir own salaries. It would have been more graceful bad

they taken that step months ago. They should commence at the top of the tree ; cut down the Governor’s salary, say £IOO or £OOO per annum. He would not be in favor of a single servant being .dismissed. It would be a cruel step. What he would counsel would be to reduce their salaries upon a graduating scale. Commence with the £BOO men, and cutting off 10 per cent., going down to £‘2oo salaries, deducting, say 21 per cent. Far too much was expected at the hands of the Government. The children of I he colony were nursed in a good cradle, educated at the expense of Government schools, supported and fostered in a Government office, and buried in a Government cofiin.

The motion for adjournment was I hen put and carried at 10.20 p.m., andj the House adjourned.