What Russia Means To Do: Ensure the Peace of the World.

Pukekohe & Waiuku Times, Volume 5, Issue 173, 12 May 1916, Page 1 (Supplement)

What Russia Means To Do: Ensure the Peace of the World.

" Wiii this war lead to disarmament, or even to partial disarmament? - ' 1 asked M. Sazonoff.

that is true," ho replied thoughtfully, j "frothing is so unlovely as sclt-esteeni, i vanity, self-righteousness." j MEMORIES OF GLADSTONE. j "Those are the fruits of German | culture,'-' I said. " We come back to , that intolerable arrogance of which j you were speaking. How different a quality is humility!" And I told him stories I had heard, from Professor Pares, of Russian soldiers at the front i —their humility and their love. -With all our faults here in Russia," ho replied, "and they are many and great, very many and very great, we are destitute of arrogance, i may be j allowed to say that, Arrogance to us rs a most hideous thing. You will never j encounter a true Russian who is arro- , gant. We brieve in simplicity, we believe in kindness, we believe in modes-. ty, we believe in love. And thot is why ■ Russian people admire the English , more than other nations. You have a grand simplicity, and you are wann- J iiearted and genuinely kind. Also yea , have great moral qualities. I remeniher listening to speeches by Mr. Glad- i stone in the House of Commons, and thinking how splendid, how magnificent it was that the House of Commons should feel the spell of an eloquence which always rested its argument on the great principles of morality. Mr. Gladstone might have been insincere—l do not know—but that does not matter, j What struck me was the moral response . of the House of" Commons to an r-gu- ! nient which was always elevatea and noble, never base and never self-inter- J ested. It was very fine. It deepened my admiration for the English people." j BRITAIN'S PART IN THE WAR. | T „,

"That depends entirely," he replied, "upon the extent of our victory. If Prussian militarism is destroyed, if that evil thing which has darkened nil our lives for so many years is finally destroyed, then I think that some measure of disarmament may be possible. It should be quite possible. For, with England and Russia friends," he continued emphatically, "the rest of the world 's safe. Nobody need fear. Nobody! The peace of the world and the happiness ot humanity are bound up with the friendship of England and Russia. And I believe that this friendship will be eternal." As a rule M. Sazonoff speaks without passion and without fire. He has a dry, crackling voice which is very agreeable, and which goes harmoniously with the vivacity of his deep sunken eyes and the long friendly line of his lips. But twice during our conversation he spoke with all the passion and fire of a profound spiritual conviction, his eyes shining, the lips firm and determined —once when he uttered the words recorded above, and once when he denounced the hideousness of German culture.

BERLIN'S GREAT CRIME. He is something more than a farseeing diplomatist. He is a man whose whole life rests upon a spiritual foundation. His hatred of Germany, which is tremendously deep and scornfully passionate, is inspired by a spiritual disgust. He said to me:—

" When the Germans, by the mouth of their Emperor and by the mouth of their Imperial Chancellor, in July, 1914, said that Russia was crossing the frontier to attack them, they said what they knew was a lie. It was not true. And they knew if; was not true. They wanted an excuse, and they deliberately lied. For more than 40 years, years which have kept the whole of Europe in a condition of feverish unrest, the Prussians have been preparing for this war. They have sat at our frontier with a stone in their bosom, as we say in one of our Russian proverbs. They have been waiting to throw that stone. Their one object all these long years has been to strike Russia down. And they have not got honesty enough to say so! They must pretend that they were attacked. Bah! —they are not even good criminals. How can anyone like such a nation? Their arrogance, that insuffisrabie arrogance of the German, has the world ever seen anything hke it? It is an offence to all mankind. And they speak of their culture! They dare to disdain Russia on the grounds of culture —Russia, who has given to the world two of the very greatest masters of literature, Pushkin and Dostoevsky. "THE GREAT TWIN BRETHREN.' "Why. there are only two men in the world who have perfectly understock humanity—an Englishman and a Russian. Our Dostoevsky and your Shakespeare. By his knowledge of the human heart, by his sublime charity, by his boundless sympathy with human nature, Dostoevsky has the right to sit at the side even' of your immortal Shakespeare. And there is no other. Is a nation which has given such a writer as this to the world io be called uncivilised by a nation whose own greatest men have hated it and despised it? Take Goetho ar.d Heine, for example; yes, and even their boasted Nietzsche.' How they hated Germany! How they despised the German character ! By the way, dc you remember that everything which Nietzsche says about the Superman is contained in a few pages of 'Crime and Punishment' and also in 'The Brothers Karamazov' ? It is not original. Don t you remember that before Raskolnikov goes off to kill that old woman he turns over in his mind all the arguments which justify murder and ferocity, and everything eke that is selfish and cruel? Dostoevsky, who did not despise, but who loved tho Russian character, wrote that (and you find it also in the other book) long before Nietzsche had thought out the thesis of the Superman, and was dead before Nietzsche announced his new gospel to the world."

I asked M. Sazonoff whether there was truth in the rumours which had reached England of Russia's dissatisfaction with' British effort in the war. "None whatever," ne replied. "German propagandists may have iried to make a few ignorant people here dissatisfied, but they did not succeed. We trust you absolutely. We know that you hold the sea. And we know that while England holds the sea, Germany, who is the enemy of the human race, cannot win this war. I have said again and again in committees of the Duma, in the Imperial Council, and to my Sovereign, that England and Russia and their Allies can secure the peace of the whole world. And I am sure of it. It is my supreme political conviction. England's hold of the sea is the greatest fact of the war. We know that fact in Russia. And we are perfectly satisfied."

When I came to ask M. Sazonoff whether, perhaps, we had not played into the hands of the War Caste in Germany by our insistence that we must crush Germany—as if we intended to invade and violate her territory—so that even the German Socialists were vigorously on the side of war, fearing for their homes and the safety of their womenfolk, he replied instantly : "Ah, they have a guilty conscience! Over here they have burned cities, towns, and villages. They hare destroved houses and laid waste the land. They have destroyed houses and laid waste the land. They have driven vast numbers of people into exile. Ah, how merciless they have been, how cruel, how brutal, how ferocious! And they do not want the same thing to happen to them! But as for the idea that we shall not enter their territory, that is for our generals to decide. After a great victory it may be possible, and it may be right, for us to invade Germans-. If so we shall certainly do it. Do you suppose that after a great victory on their side they would hesitate to enter Moscow or Petrograd? Have thev announced that they are only fighting to destroy the Russian armies? But if they think that we and our Allies are fighting to destroy the German nation, then I do not mind saying that thev are wrong. . "How can you destroy a nation or eighty million*people? Our purpose j to dostrov once and for all—once and for all—the greatest danger which has ever menaced the human race. We shall fight on, and we shall never cease fiohting, until that menace is destroyed. We cannot rest with a victory which would permit that menace to lilt its head again. Our victory must be absolute. We must be free to livewithout the continual fear of war. Hung* must be so settled by this war that tlw nations feel themselves same. And until German militarism is destroyed to its roots no nation can feel itself sale Let the German people know—l have not the least obiection to this, —tn-u it they themselves like to destroy thenmilitarism absolutely, then, the war wilt come to an end. But as for us, we shall never stop for one moment until we are satisfied that the carso <>l Prussianism is lifted from the human race."

"And Dostoovsky disapproved of i;ie thesis,'' I said, "while Nietzsche shouted for it as a holy thing, with half Germany hurrahing at Ins heels." "Of course, Dostoovsky disapproved of it. He was a Russian." We talked about Dostoevsky for a considerable time, M. Sazonoff's eys kindling as lie expressed his admiration, his almost reverence, for the beauty of Dostoievsky's tpirit. He has read some of those great novels over and over again. He reti rns to them because they feed his soul. "And how he suffered, that poor man! Four years of hard labour in Siberia—not our modern Siberia, which is prosperous and flourishing as a plae-? of expatriation, but a Siberia which resembled Finland before we took it. But his suffering did not convert him into a '•evolutionist. He bowed h;3 head before it. He accepted it. He was like the Christlike figure-; in his own books. He was the gentler for it; it deepened his tondeines.- and wiuened his sympathy. Ah. but the Russian is like that.'-' He lowered bis voice, and smiled as he said, "Yes, the very worst of us, the very lowest of us,"is still n Christian. Some of us are great sinners, the greatest of s'nners, but wo remain Christians all tne same. Yes. Yes. We remain Chrstians all the same. Do you unrtors ;md t,,at? " • T . , , I I replied that in England also we feel the very greatest of B-nnow to be often nearer to the heart of Christianity th;in the rigorous moralist. 1 quoted the saying of Carlyle, that the greatest of all sins is to be conscious °*He'nodded his head. "That is true.

DOWN WITH "PIU.SSIANISM' (NOT PRUSSIA), i

"My point is," I answered, ' t-.hat a peace'which some people might call inconclusive would at once reveal to the Herman people the true state of their finances, and so result in the destruction of Prussian militarism bj the tierman pooplo themselves." He replied instantly and with great energv. ''Wo cannot take that nek. Prussianism is so vile a thing that we dare not leave its destruction to a hypothesis. England, France, Russia are responsible now for the future of Europe, which means the future ot civilisation, the fate of the world. Wc can, and we shall, destroy Prussianism. It may take a long time. "\\e are prepared for that. But no inconclusive peace- No peace with a risk attachel to it. Prussianism, which is a deadly poison must be flung dean out of the human body. We dare not leavo it

AN INTERVIEW WITH THE CZAR'S FOREIGN MINISTER—BY HAROLD BEGBIE.

A memorable interview with the Russian Foreign Minister, M. Sazonoff, is contributed by the special correspondent cf the 'Daily Cnroniele,' Mr. Harold Begbie, recently in Petrogiad. The great statesman of Eastcm Europe dips into the future, and sees the vision of the world after the war, when Robed in universal harvest up to either pole she smiles, Universal ocean softly washing all her warless isles. 31. Sazonoff has said to the Czar, to the Russian Imperial Council, and to the Duma, and now he says to us: "England and her Allies together can secure the peace of the world."

I there to work once more for the de- ! struction of nations." | RUSSIA AND SCANDINAVIA. 1 I told M. Sazonoff that in Scandina- ! via I had encountered considerable fear i ami distrust of Russia. "Ah, why is that?" he asked. "What have you ever done to make them sus- | picious ? For some reason, I really do j not know why, they are always imagini ing that we seek a port on their coasts. Itis a fixed idea. Nothing seems to get it out of their heads. I suppose they must have heard that we are now building a great railway from PetroI grad to an ice-free port at Alexandrovsk; but apparently that makes no j difference to them. What a pity they I distrust us! We intend them no harm. We are willing indeed to live with ' them on the most amiable terms.- Our • policy has no dangers for them —no ' dangers whatever for any of them. I can say no more." | "Their uneasiness," I said, "would be I very sensibly relieved if they knew for , certain that Russia is to occupy Con--1 stantinoplo." ( "Well, that is essential for us. It is essential for your trade." " And you don't think it would hasten the end of the war if the Allies ani nouneed definitely that their objective is not the destruction of Germany, but | the destruction of the Prussian War i Machine?" | "We have said that, surely often enough." j "But not often enough, or at any rate not clearly enough to convince the I German people that their worst enemy I is the Prussian War Machine." THE SEA "JAVEL-RING OF THE I LAWS."

"Well, I cannot say. Ido not know. But for myself, while I want to sec the Prussian War Machine broken, and broken into dust, I have no wish to damage the German people. They will suffer, and it is perhaps, good for them to suffer. Financial ruin will teaca them a terrible lesson. I hopj it maj\ After that I shall be glad to see tnem once more busy and industrious. Bui one thing is certain, England holds th" sea, and aftor the war her recovery wii' be quick and>sound. The longer fi;e war lasts, on the other hand, tho mo:'? complete will be the financial ruin of Germany.

" To England it does not greatly matter whether it ends now or later. She holds tne precious sea. And Russia feels in her soul that with England for her Ally she is fighting a winning fight, and a fight which, cost what it will, >s for the eternal benefit of» humanity. Russia is resolved. She cannot stop, r,he cannot witndraw. Until that detestable thing which we call Prussianism, that thing which is repugnant to all men of honour and refinement, mat thing, too, winch is an overwhelming peril to every other nation under the sky, is destroyed, until that thing is finallv and utterly destroyed, Russ.a will fight. Tnat is all."

When we came to walk from one room to the other we had ceased to speak of Prussianism and the war, and were back once more with Dostoevsky. We stood talking at the door for several minutes. "Do you remember," 1 asked, "that in one of his letters written durig the Franco-German War iie said that Russia's main contribution to European civilisation would be lh-3 Russian Christ?"

"Well," he said, very gently an! modestly, "1 believe that Russia has smething to give to the rest of tin wii'ld which will be good and neiphi!. For many years we have felt our?>ilves to be suspected and distrusts!, although, like England, we have fought wars for the liberation of other cations and endeavoured to develop our own life without injury to our neighbours. Perhaps after this war these nations which have distrusted us may come to know something of Russian culture. At preseint they are very ignorant about us. Then, let us Hope, all suspicion may £O.

PEACE OF THE WORLD

"Russia desires with her whole heart and soul the peace of the world. It was the Emperor of Russia who proposed disarmament, in the hope of saving mankind from this very catastrophe. And it was Germany who deliberately frustrated that noble intention. Well, let us hope that after this war is over we may find ourselves nearer to that noble ideal of my Sovereign. The Russians do not want war. They are righting now to end war. And with England and Russia victorious in this war the peace of the world will he assured. I have no firmer faith than that."

Throughout our conversation, and everything 1 have heard about hi in confirms this impression. M. Sazonoff made me feel that I was in the presence of a man very deeply aware of life's spiritual reality. He is far-swing, he is profoundly wise, and I can imagine him singularly hard on occasion; but the background of his life, T am sure, is mvstical and religious. Fb is a Christian, and a Russian Christian. M. Sazonoff has a very deep admiration for the moral grandeur of Sir KJward Grey; and when I chanced to mention the'name of Mr. Lloyd George in oik conversation, his eyes glistened at on••»• as he exclaimed, " Ah that is a man who has Income a hero with the Russir.i nation!" I believe that M. Sazonoff iniv lecom" as great a hero wV' the British nation. He is honest, he is plain-spoken, he is natural, he is strong, and ho is lovable. We have no truer friend in the world. Let us remember our debt to him wnen Russia and her Allies together assure the world of peace.