THE RAILWAY QUESTION.

Poverty Bay Standard, Volume I, Issue 302, 5 December 1884, Page 2

THE RAILWAY QUESTION.

METALUNG THE ROADS. IMPORTANT DISCUSSION. At the meeting of the Cook Council yesterday afternoon, Cr. Gannon presented the report of the Public Works Committee on the railway question, drawn up at a meeting held on Tuesday last, at which certain resolutions were passed, and which were embodied in the report. He also presented a circular on the same subject. Cr. Gannon—l propose that the report as drawn up by the committee be adopted. At the same time I wobld point out that it was not expected to embody the whole questions of trams and railways. Such big works must have a beginning somewhere, and I think the committee should go cautiously to work and not commit themselves more than possible to any particular course. Cr. Trimmer—l second the proposition. Cr. Chambers—l agree that the carrying out of this work is necessary for the district. The only course we can take will be to make such concessions as will enable people to come hero and lav down the line. The only concessions we have been able to make to them, is the sole right of haulage for seven years, but I doubt whether that would be a sufficient inducement for them to come. On the motion of Cr. Gannon the Council went into committee in order to more freely discuss the question. Cr. Gray—l would very much like to see the work gone on with, but I do not think that it is the work of the county to subsidize railways. We should be able to get our railways like other places which had had them authorised by the last session of Parliament. I would like to see the railway go to Ormond as well as Patutahi. Cr. Chambers—This does go to Ormond. It is a Gisborne line to Ormond and a branch line to Patutahi. Cr. Ferris—l think there should be some limit. The Council have been paying interest on the money that was granted to the Council under the Roads and Bridges Construction Act, £B,OOO, and I am therefore anxious to see it spent at once. Cr. Gannon—l have spoken to leading members of the House with regard to this

question, and it appears that this place is so isolated that that alone operates very much against our chances of having a railway constructed by the Government. Another thing is the difficulty of connecting Gisborne with any important centre to make it necessary that the railway should be sanctioned at present. I do not look upon this scheme us “subsidising railways.” I should make no such proposition ; but there is the question of metal. That is the one importmt consideration for the County Council. We have been for years paying a heavy price for “ muck,” to put on the roads. This stuff was obtained from the bed of a river, and then we are at the mercy of the river as i.o whether we can get the metal or not, as it is sometimes flooded. That has been the case over and over again with Oxenham’s contract. What I understand the Council should do, would be siuply to give anybody the right to run trams or a light line of railway to any part of the county, if they thought fit to take up the offer, and not merely to Patutahi or Ormond only. Instead of anybody trying to raise an objection to such a scheme, they all ought to be supporting it. The tram need not necessarily stop at Ormond, but might be continued further inland as circumstances warrant. I presume it would be the business of the contracting parties to look arround and see which part of the country would be most likely to pay. Ormond suggests itself more than another place, as it is the largest of the inland towns in the county, and having a number of sheep runs further inland in that direction it would be an important place for a terminus, and very likely that, with the prospect of oil springs eventually the line would run much further than Ormond. The decision to-day will be very important, and I . can speak for a few gentlemen at all events—it will guide them in their movements as regards contracting, they don’t by any means, intend to force themselves on the County. I consider the Council ought to pass a very distinct resolution to the effect that it is willing to deal in a liberal manner with any outside people who are willing to come here and construct the tramway or a light line of rail from the limits of the town, or wherever the place may be, to Ormond and Patutahi. I don’t think this question should hinge on the question of whether metal should be obtained from Patutahi or Ormond. There are reports of good metal being at Ormond. That has been often said, my own experience is not altogether in favor of that; still the metal may be there, and wp might require to get some from that place. I agree therefore with the representatives of the Central Riding, that if good metal is really in the Ormond district by all means have it-used on the Ormond part of the County roads. I don’t think the main question should be hung up because there may be some prejudice between the people of Ormond and Patutahi. Questions of detail can easily be determined when the Council knows more fully what it is about. It would tend to hamper persons intending to undertake this railway work, if, as has been suggested, they be compelled at the outset, to distinctly specify the actual price per cubic yard they would charge for road metal. Any intending contractors can be met by asking them what they will bring the metal from Patutahi. and Ormond for. It is only putting the cart before the hoiseto fix the price now. The first thing is to show the position the Council will take up in the way of giving facilities for getting the metal, then those people who would lay the lines would be sure of a certain amount of carriage, and have the right to haul the metal from wherever it comes. By inviting offers from outside persons the Council is not bound to accept any of them, nor are the ratepapayers committed to anything. Let us catch our hare first before we cook it.

Cr. Wallace—ln the event of this company taking up the scheme, and laying only the one line of rail to Patutahi, which gives the best chance of making money, will we be bound down to take the gravel from them to the Ormond road ?

Cr. Gannon—We have not got the company yet. Cr. Wallace—But in the event of a company taking it up ? Cr. Ferris—The whole of the concessions to be made by the Council are made in favor of the line to Patutahi, as will be seen by the report of the Public Works Committee. If this were amended slightly, as far as I am concerned I would see no objection to it;

if metal as good as that at Patutahi could be found elsewhere at a less price or cost to the Council, by all means net it. Of the 45,000 yards required 30,000 or more might be got from the Patutahi quarry, and the balance from the Ormond quarry. I contend that the Council should not lose sight of the fact

that there is every probability of excellent metal being got near Ormond—that being so, the Council should not pledge itself to get the metal from one quarry only— I am not objecting to the principle of a railway or tram at all, but I object to binding ourselves to get metal from Patutahi, when we may find it within the next few months elsewhere, and obtainable at a less price. It is holding out a sort of sop that the Council will get 45,000 yards from Patutahi, and does away with the idea of getting any metal from Ormond at all. I will move as an amendment that these words be struck out of the report, “ the probability is that the whole of the stone required for road purposes will be procured from the Patutahi quarry.” The amendment was put with the following result: —Ayes : Ferris, Gray, Wallace, and Montmollin. Noes: Trimmer, Gannon, Smith, and Chambers. The Chairman gave his casting vote with the noes, and declared the amendment lost.

Cr. Gannon—l am inclined to think that most of the stone will actually be got from Patutahi, and there should be no doubt about it, but if metal is found at Ormond no doubt that place will supply its fair share. Cr. Ferris—lf we put that clause in, and people tender with that idea in their heads, the probability is that the whole of the stone will bo got from Patutahi. The Council afterwards will not go against it, and we will find that they are committed to get the whole from that quarry. Cr. Chambers—We do no such thing as you will see by the next clause in the report. Cr. Ferris—But before that it says so. Cr. Gannon—That is only the Engineer’s opinion.

Cr. Trimmer—ts the contractor iUppOßdd to supply metal to the Ormond road ? Cr. Ferris—Yes, Cr, Trimmer—Then, in any ease, he would have to construct the Hue up to Ormond. Cr, Ferris—Yes, but would it pay him to contract the line for merely 14,000 yards of gravel.

The Chairman now put the original pro« position, that the report be adopted, which was carried, Crs. Gray, Wallace, and Farris voting against it. Cr. Gannon—There is a gentleman of practical experience in tramways who has visited both Patutahi and Ormond, who considers the two lines necessary to be constructed if the Council’s terms be satisfactory. By this report a person can build a railway to any quarry he likes. Cr. Chambers—l beg to move “ That thia Council is of opinion that the Construction of a line or lines of railway will be of great benefit to this district. In furtherance cf that object this Council will advertise over the Colony for offers from capitalists for the construction of such lines. That this Council is prepared to deal in a liberal way with any railway company who may undertake the work, and grant such concessions as it may be empowered to give. And that the particulars attached to the report drawn up by the Public Works Committee be printed for the information of persons who may offer to undertake the work.*’ Cr. Gannon—l second the motion.

The Chairman then put the motion, which was curried. Ayes: Crs. Chambers,Gannon, Gray, Montmollin, Smith, Trimmer. Noes: Ferris and Wallace.

Cr. Ferris—By carrying that motion I consider we are going over the same ground afl we did six months ago, by advertising all over the colony and giving the same particulars over again, which will incur about £3O or £4O expenses, and which could well go for repairing the roads better than for the purpose intended. In reply to Cr. Chambers the Clerk stated the advertising cost about £lO. Cr. Gannon—l support the advertising for offers because it will give everybody an opportunity of competing. For instance, there may be people in Auckland who would take it up on more advantageous terms than the people in Wellington, and those in Christchurch again might take it on more advantageous terms than the people of either of the other two places.

Cr. Chambers—l propose : “ That answers to this offer be received within two months.” Cr. Gannon seconded. Cr. Wallace—l propose an an amendment: “ That it be only one month.” Cr. Ferris seconded. The amendment was put and lost. The The proposition was then duly carried. The Council now adjourned for ten minutes.

On resuming Cr. Ferris proposed that applicants be asked to name the price for haulage per cubic yard for metal at so much per mile. It would facilitate matters very much if they did that, and I don’t see how it can be done afterwards.

Cr. Gannon.—l think if w<i were to ask outside people lo say what they would haul for, at per yard, we would ba hampering the matter a good deal. I understand the position is this, that the Council simply advertises, and it is absolutely pledged to nothing, and 1 really don’t see how they can state at how much they will do per mile at the present state of proceedings. If they were bound to do that we would in all probability debar ourselves from receiving good offers. When we get the offer we can go into that part of the question.

The Chairman—l agree with the proposition. People must first come here, and will have to make themselves well acquainted with the work done, as to sawmills, bushes, and the traffic along the route, before they make any application. Cr. Gannon—The only objection I have to it is that it appears to me it would throw a difficulty in the way of making an offer. Cr. Trimmer—l second Cr. Ferris’ proposition. Cr. Ferris—l think that anybody going into this question, to contract for it, will calculate everything. They will have to do so in order to find out whether the thing will pay them or not. Cr. Gannon—l have no objection to the proposition being put as a suggestion. That would be muchtho battar an n rec because then people applying might at first omit to state their price, and on receipt of the application they could be wired to for it, and it would not be informal, but if carried now that perhaps could not be done. Cr. Chambers—Before the contract commences legal documents will have to be drawn up, and then such clauses could be inserted in it. Crs. Trimmer and Smith agreed with the proposition which was put and carried. Cr. Ferris—l have not heard it yet stated as to what is to be done at the end of seven years with the railway or what is proposed to be done with it.

Cr. Gannon—That is a very important omission in the report of the Public Works Commttee. It was understood at the meeting of the committee that at the end of the seven years the Council was to have the right of purchasing the line at a valuation to be decided by arbitration in the usual way. That should have been in the minutes and the circular. I will propose that that be embodied in the circular “That the Council have the right at theexpiration of seven years to buy the lines at valuation, to be determined in the usual way.” Cr. Chambers seconded. Cr. Ferris—l think if the time could be increased to ten years it would be much better than seven, Cr. Chambers—This matter ought to be left as between the contractors and the Council. As it appeared from this discusion that this was a matter of after arrangement between parties, the motion was withdrawn.