THE FORESHORE QUESTION.

Poverty Bay Standard, Volume I, Issue 202, 6 August 1884, Page 2

THE FORESHORE QUESTION.

FINAL DECISION OF THE BOARD. Last night a letter was read which had been sent to Messrs. Common, Shelton & Co., as under :— “ I have the honor to acknowledge receipt of your letter of 15th inst. In reply I have to direct your attention to clause No. 3 of conditions of sale; also Nos. 5 and 7; also to your agreement with the Board to start the bidding at the upset price of .Cls per annum. It is only in the event of anyone outbidding you that you will be paid the £1,275 by the purchaser.” Another letter was received, which had been received from Messrs. Graham, Pitt & Bennett, stating that they had, on Saturday last, offered the foreshore property occupied by Common, Shelton & Co. for sale, and as there was no bidding it had to be passed in ; also forwarding account for commission and advertising in connection with it, amounting to £2 17s

The account was passed. Mr. Joyce—l should like the conditions of sale and the agreement read to the Board. Mr. Kenny—l think that is perfectly need less, as we have heal’d it read two or three times, and if Mr. Joyce wants to read them he can do so. It would be a waste of time to do so now.

The Chairman—l will move that a special meeting be held to go into this question, and to report to this Board at the next meeting, as to what course we should take, and to ascertain the position of tire Board at present, and to consult with a solicitor on the matter, and we ought to go on the recommendation of that committee. It is a matter which should bo discussed in committee, and their report condensed and handed to the Board. Mr. Joyce —I think it should be a committee consisting of the whole of us. I think the conditions of sale ought to be road to us. Mr. Townley—l think the conditions ought to be read. The secretary then read the conditions of salp. Mr. Tutchen—As far as I can see we are just where we were, and I don’t see that we can do anything unless we have a committee mooting of the whole of the members. The only course we can now take, that is if we have any title to the property at all, is to eject them, and to put them off at once, and there is no other course open to us. They have never answered the letter the Secretary wrote to them, and they did not bid for the property when it was offered, as they should have done by agreement, neither did I. (Laughter). They will not go to law, they are just living there while they can and paying no rent, and it is for us to go to law.

The Chairman—ln order to shorten the matter, I will propose that a special committee be appointed, consisting of members Kenny, Townley, Lewis, Joyce, and myself, to fully discuss the question and report at the next meeting. If Mr. Kenny would give us professional advice, we could well do with it, because it would be reliable.

Mr. Kenny—l would be only too glad to give any assistance in my power at the meetings, if they are held in the afternoons. I cannot attend of an evening. The Chairman—They can be held in the afternoon.

Mr. Brown—l think it would be better to bring up a report at a special meeting of the Board to be held next Tuesday, The Chairman—Very well. Mr. Hepburn—l will second that.

Mr. Tutchen—l move as an amendment that we write a letter to some solicitor outside the district, either at Auckland or Wellington, and state our case clearly to him, and get his advice. Such a course as that would be the most wise, and would be much better for all parties. We could send our grant of the foreshore, and he could see that the property is under our control. We should then know exactly how we stand, and it would be far more satisfactory.

The Chairman—l think that would come as an amendment when the committee bring up their report. Mr. Tutchen—My object is this we have been dilly dallying here over this question for years, and Common and Co. have been living on our property rent free all the time, and we should now take some decided action, as it is a piece of injustice to the burgesses and to every business man in the town.

Mr. Lewis—l don’t see how we can arrive at anything definite by a special committee meeting. We have endeavored as far as we can to come to a satisfactory arrangement with them, and in every instance they have backed out and failed to keep their promises. I think that now we should get advice outside the bay, not because the advice here is not good enough, but we could get it more impartially otherwise, and it would be more satisfactory to us. The Chairman—My object is to get at the question as to whether Common, Shelton & Co. are now in possession under the Board by the conditions they have signed, or not. This is the question we do not know. Mr. Smith—How can they be in possession under the Board ?

The Chairman—l believe they arc, and subject to pay £l5 a year. Mr. Joyce—l should like the agreement with them read.

The Chairman—lf the thing is to be gone into now, I will withdraw my proposition, Mr. Kenny—l may say that member Tutchen’s idea is my idea. I suggested the same thing at a previous meeting, that a solicitor outside the place should be fully informed of the case, with a view to a sound opinion being obtained, and the Board fully advised as to the best course they should take and I think now that such a step is more than ever desirable. There are questions such as common and Co.’s status under the new conditions, to be decided. The case should be drawn by a solicitor here, and not by the secretary. We are not competent to decide this question amongst ourselves, and to know what course we should pursue. It may be that we can hold them down to this agreement, and we might be in a position to say clear out of the premises at once, but they are points we should get the best advice on. We should apply to Mr. James Smith, or Sir F. Whitaker.

Mr. Joyce—l shall give my opinion, it is this, that there is only one question to decide on, viz :—Whether Common Shelton & Co. aie bound to the conditions or not. That is the only point. I remember sometime back the last speaker expressing his opinion at this Board, that they had not a vestige of footing to stand on there. Mr. Kenny—l rise to a point of order. I did not say anything of the kind. I said it was a matter of extreme difficulty, and it was not easy to say whether they had any right there or not.

Mr. Joyce—Surely out of seventeen or eighteen solicitors here we have men competent enough to give us an expression of opinion in reference to the point I mention. If Common & Co. are bound by the conditions, send the lease down and ask them to sign it, and if they don’t, take proceedings at once to eject them. It appears to me that they have been playing with us, like boys with a ball, kicking us about as they liked. If we had a case drawn up by Mr. Nolan for an outside solicitor, his charge would be pretty heavy, and the eminent solicitor’s charge would also be pretty heavy, so that by the time it is finished we would pay very well for our information.

Mr. Kenny—Mr. Lewis made a great point when he said we would get an unbiassed opinion from an outside solicitor. He (the solicitor) would come with his mind fresh, and would know nothing of the discussions we have had on it, and therefore his opinion could be well formed on the merits of the case.

The Chairman—l think this is a question as to whether or not the conditions and agreement are binding. That is what the whole matter is now narrowed down to. Mr. Lewis—l consider besides that, we want to know what course we are to take providing they are not bound by the conditions. The Chairman—Exactly.

Mr. Kenny—That again would entirely depend upon the whole history of the previous transactions in regard to this matter. The agreement between Common, Shelton Co. and the Board was now read.

The Chairman—lt says, “ in the event of anyone outbidding us,” that is an open point, because they do not in that bind themselves to bid, and I think that is the only loop-hole in the agreement, and they have taken advantage of it, and have shirked the point on every occasion. It is a little bit of sharp practice. Mr. Kenny—l will move that a solicitor be instructed to prepare a case and to lay it before Sir Frederick Whitaker, and find out from him the course we should adopt. Mr. Smith—l object to that. I would like to know what Mr. Kenny means. Is the whole case to be put from start to finish. Mr. Kenny—Yes.

Mr. Smith—l object to it, and we might now just as well fight the matter out, and leave the solicitor alone. To me, the only point appears to be, are they bound to make the first bid ? When that is settled I am quite clear on the subject. I propose, “ That the secretary be instructed to write to Common and Co., asking them to pay the rent for the first quarter for their buildings on the foreshore, and to sign the lease as per conditions of sale.” It is necessary to do that first, and if they don’t do it, let us fight it out with them. I will alter the proposition, “ That the secretary be instructed to write, and that in the meantime our solicitor be requested to give his opinion as to whether Common, Shelton and Co. are, or are not,

compelled to start the bidding at the upset price. o Mr. Joyce—l shall second that. Mr. Lewis—l shall object to any such course, because I consider every latitude and lenience has been shown to them, and I cannot see why we should still go begging to them. It seeula to me that they have now foifsitcd their right to the property. Mr. Kenny—l beg to move as an amendment to Mr. Smith’s motion, “ that the secretary be instructed to lay a case, setting out the facts and documents, before Sir F. Whitakcn”

Mr. Tutchen—l will second the amendment, t Mr. Joyce—lt is not a portion of thd Secretary’s duty to put cases before solicitors, and I object to it. Mr. Smith was of the same opinion. The Chairman then put the amendment which was lost by one vote. Mr. Townley—We are going in a very round about way in this matter, and it seems to me that the Board have it now in their hands to take possession of the pro* perty, and do what they like with it. The Board's course now is to take the necessary steps for removing Common, Shelton <k Co. and I don’t sea any use in our (stating this complicated case to an outside solicitor. If they will not go out we will then simply have to apply to the Government to have the obstruction removed. We should make that application now. The Engineer agrees that the buildings are an obstruction, and cause the water to flow on the other side of the river, instead of this side. I am glad the amendment was lost. Mr. Smith—So am I. Mr. Townley—l would suggest that as no bid was made at the gale, the Harbor Board now take possession of the property. I do not propose that, but merely to test the feeling of the meeting. The Chairman—We have endeavored in every way to meet Common & Co., and they have always shirked their part, and they still want to wriggle out of any arrangements; therefore I think we should at once take proceedings against them. Mr. Smith—l am onlv too glad to see the temper of the Board as it is at present, and as the members will not back up my proposition, I will withdraw it. Mr. Joyce—l consider the way Common, Shelton & Co. have treated us is a downright insult to the Board. The Chairman—l move that the solicitor be instructed to take the necessary legal proceedings in order to assert our title to that portion of the foreshore at present occupied by them.

Mr. Tutchen—l think in writing to a solicitor we should instruct him that Common and Co. are not allowed to remove anything off the premises, as they are hardly worth £5OO.

Mr. Joyce—l am glad you have changed your opinion. You stated at the last meeting that the buildings were worth about £BOO. Mr* Kenny—l shall votefor the proposition, but I think we are taking rather a risky and dangerous step in not obtaining good sound advice.

The Chairman—lf we have any doubt about the matter we can consult any one of our own solicitors.

Mr. Kenny—And who would they be ? The solicitors here are only second-rate men, and would only be agents in Wellington, where there were heaps of them. There were only one or two solicitors in the colony that could give opinions on such an important matter as this.

The proposition was slightly altered and read : “ That the solicitor be instructed to at once take the necessary legal proceedings against Common and Co., in order to establish the Board’s title to the foreshore occupied by them. Mr. Tutchen—What solicitor would you suggest writing to ? Mr. Smith—Our solicitor. Mr. Tutchen—We were very much dissatisfied with him in reference to the valuation question, and in this affair, I should certainly object to him. The Chairman—l think we should get some one else, and not our own solicitor, It is an apparent discourtesy to Mr. Nolan, but I think some one else should be employed. Mr. Tutchen—l would suggest that we employ Mr. DeLautour. Mr. Joyce—Can any gentleman inform me who is the senior solicitor in Gisborne ? Mr. Kenny—l am, and so is Mr. Rees next to me. The Chairman—l will put my proposition first, and the solicitor can be decided after. The proposition was carried unanimously. Mr. Tutchen—l move that Seivwright & DeLautour be employed to conduct our case. Mr. DeLautour is a young man, and I am postive he would do his best to advance our interest.

Mr. Joyce—l shall propose that Messrs, Finn and Rees, the two senior solicitors outside of Mr. Kenny, be employed. The Chairman—Why do you include two ? That means two fees.

Mr. Joyce—l think two are required in a matter of this magnitude and importance. Mr. Smith—l will second Messrs. Sievwright & DeLautour being employed. Mr. Joyce—lf two solicitors are not required, I shall propose one—Mr. Finn. Mr. Hepburn—l will second that.

Mr. Kenny was allowed to leave the table, as he did not wish to vote, being a professional man himself.

The Chairman then put the amendment which was lost, three voting for, and four against.

Mr. Townley—l shall propose as another amendment that Mr. Rees ba employed. The amendment was put and carried, five voting for and three against. Mr. Townley—l will propose that a committee consisting of members Smith, Joyce, the Chairman, and myself, be appointed to go carefully into the question, before it leaves the Board at all. Mr. Moore—l will second that.—carried.