NATIVE MEETING.

Poverty Bay Standard, Volume I, Issue 73, 26 July 1873, Page 2

NATIVE MEETING.

Henabe Matua, who it will be remembered arrived in this district some little time back, ostensibly on an electioneering stump, but really as an emissary to agitate the native mind, in the hope of gaining the adherence of the Maoris to the cause of repudiation, addressed a large meeting on Wednesday last at Pakirikiri. There were only a few Europeans present, and the whole proceedings did not seem to cause much stir outside the circle of those who were immediately interested. We have been obligingly furnished by an eye witness with the following interesting report of what took place, which we doubt, not will be read with much satisfaction by all who look upon Henare Matua as an arch-agitator completely under the influence of evil counsellors, and from whom he receives his inspirations :- — “ On Wednesday last I went to Pakirikiri by special invitation from Raharuhi Rukupo, to meet Henare Matua. Mrs. Wyllie, and Messrs. Graham, Matheson, Harrison, and Steuart, were also present. “ Arrived on the spot we found a very large number of natives assembled, apparently about one-third of the number present being strangers (of Ngatikahunganu.) They evidently were expecting us, for we had not been five minutes on the ground when Hikawera, the “ mangai,” (mouthpiece) of Henare Matua enquired whether or not Kate Wyllie was present. Mr. Wyllie stepped forward followed by Mrs. Wyllie and desired to be informed what Henare Matua wanted. The reply was, “I want to question your wife.” Mrs. Wyllie said, “Go on.” The following dialogue then ensued : — Hikawera: Keita Waere (Kate Wyllie) “Are you a grantee in Te Kuri claim ?” Keita Waere: “I was; but have sold my interest in it.”

Hikawera : “ You say you have sold it; what was the money you obtained for it ?” Keita Waere : “ I will not permit you to question me at all on the subject. Are you a Commissioner appointed by the Government to institute an enquiry ? The land was mine, and I sold it; it is no concern of yours what sum I may have received for it, therefore you had better sit down at once.

Henare Matua then spoke thus: “ You ask if lam a Commissioner. lam not; but lam a Magistrate ; and I know that the Court says that no individual grantee is at liberty to sell his or her interest until partition.” Keita Waere : “ I will sell my own interests whenever I choose, without asking the sanction of yourself or of anyone else. Your disapproval is of no consequence to me. I have sold my interest in many blocks of land, and received the value. I have no intention now of seeking to repudiate these sales.” Henare Matua : “ You say these interests you disposed of belong to the Europeans, now; I tell you they are yours still.” Keita Waere : Do not talk to me in this foolish strain. You can see lam a woman, but you must not think I am a child, or a fool. I have had to fight my own fight in European Courts against the European lawyers before to-day, with reference to land matters ; and I tell you, Henare Matua, that I feel myself quite able to cope with you to-day.” Henare Matua: “Very well, if you do not wish to get your own shares back again in cases where you have sold, your co-grantees will become entitled to all benefit s you might claim.” Keita Waere : “ Henare Matua, your name has been in my ears as that of one of the most eloqhent Maories in New Zealand. I have listededTto your words to-day; these do not bear out tire reputation you appear to have earned. Raharuhi and yourself invited my hueband alone to meet you here to-day, because you thought he would side with your part. I, as in duty bound, have come with him : all the arguments you can use will never convince me that your course is the right one. I tell you, Henare Matua, that these people carried their land to the European and disposed of it, as they would have disposed of any other commodity. No doubt they received the prices stipulated, if they did not, it was their own fault; and besides, if wrongs have been committed the Courts of Law are yet open to them —these at least are pure; and from that source they can always obtain redress. Raharuhi, a dying man, seems to be the prime mover now in this repudiation of sales: lam astonished. Raharuhi has hitherto been the most facile seller; he led the way in the sale of Matawhero C.; in Whakawhitira; in Makauri—in all the lands. Raharuhi ought to reflect on his past deeds. With the exception of his one living brother I am his nearest relative, and yet I feel no compunction in denouncing him. Let him think on the part he took at the coming of Kereopa, when he extended the hand of friendship to clasp that of a man, red with the blood of a minister of God; and then again of his dealings with Te Koti. The tribes have grave reason to lay at his door the death of several chiefs of Turanga. Listen, Henare! Raharuhi is in his dotage; others of the tribes from whom you derive your information are either fools or knaves; do not give ear to them; notone of them here to-day dare stand on his feet now, and tell me that I state untruths —let that be proof to you. Do not, I tell you, be led in trouble by the false statements of tnese people; the tales they tell may appear fair outside, but at the core they are rotten. Further, I tell you plainly that you are acting deceitfully in leading these people to suppose that you possess any power to restore to them the lands they have ■ rightfully disposed of. You know well you have no such power; and if you persist in leading them into this belief, I say plainly you are a man not to be trusted—one indeed who is wanting in veracity.” Mrs- W. here went into a lengthy exposition, with reference to different sales of land, in order to show that the natives had disposed of them with their eyes open; and concluded by again telling Henare that his coming was for evil and not for good; that he was now sowing the seed of disaffection —some day the harvest would be reaped, and that then the people he pretended to assist would have to pay the penalty. Henare Matua: “You say your father Raharuhi was a hauhau—perhaps so. But why

should you couple my name with that of the murderer Kereopa ? I come to uphold the law, not to trample on it. I say, let the tribunals of the country, investigate, and amend the wrongs done to the Maori race by the Europeans, in their dealings with land. You are right in saying that the. blocks referred to cannot be restored by me; but my lawyers can apply to the Parliament for a commission of investigation, and the Parliament will set the matter right—they and the Judges, will decide. There is another matter I would speak of to you :—How is it that the grantees in your land claims here sometimes number as many as 60 or 70 individuals, whereas, according to the Act there should be only 10 ? Still your ideas and mine do not altogether clash. I am glad you have come to talk to me, for your speech is good and will carry weight, with the people. What I complain of is this :—Why should your relatives be permitted to alienate their lands for matches and rum ? Why should the signatures of minors to any deeds be considered binding ? And why should you, or any other married woman, be recognized as a party competent to convey lands without your husband being also a principal in the deed ? I have lawyers to advise me, and, therefore, know the spirit of the law. Let me ask you a question :—Has your husband permitted you to sell your land for matches, or on any terms, without his also being ft party ? Ido not think so. I can tell you that although your husband sits here to-day to oppose me, in his heart, he feels for our cause.”

Keita Waere : "If you advise these people to litigation, the lawers wil eat up the remainaer of the land. Lawyers do not work through philanthropic motives ; they work for their pay.” Henare Matua: “Yea, that is true. You are right; but I will meet the law expenses incurred ; the Government will pay the Commissioners.”

Keita Waere : " Well, Henare Matu, I tell you plainly, you will have all your labor for nothing. You see I am a woman, and although I am, you cannot tire me out. I can hold my own with you or any other Maori or European when I havo to fight foe my right.” Henare Matua : “ Have you sold Pakirikiri.” Keita Waere : " I do not admit your right to question me; but as you seek to know, I will indulge you. I have sold the block with the exception of seven acres, and I shall now go back to Gisborne and sell that. I have got a good price for that land; I sold it for £2O an acre ; that was not bad.” Henare Matua: "Well. Keita Waere, we quite understand och other's views, so I think we do not require to k further.”

Jas. Wyllie : “ Henare Matua. You referred to the excessive number of gra, tees in the dif* ferent claims here, contrasted with those in your district; that is a fact I will explain to you:— After Te Kofi’s raid on this place, the Government induced the loyal chiefs to cede the entire district to the Crown ; this was done under a proviso that all loyal natives’ should have the power of coming before a Commission of Judges to be appointed for the purpose ; and there and then proving their titles to any blocks of land within the ceded boundaries, all such lands to be afterwards held under Crown Grants. Thus, you see, the native title was in the first place extinguished by the Deed of Cession, so that the sitting of the Commission afterwards was not held under the provisions of the Native Lands Act (which limit the names to be inserted in the Crown Grant to ten) but a matter separate and distinct by itself, hence the excessive number of grantees in the claim here. Let me advise you, Henare, to walk warily ; leave the settlement of these matters to the Courts of Law. No one knows better than I do, that all transactions in land here have not been perfectly pure; but anything I do know shall remain locked up in my breast until I am called upon to speak before the proper tribunal. If you have wrongs to complain of, seek redress in the usual course of law. The Supreme Court is open to you. lam not aware that Parliament is possessed of any judicial functions to decide disputes between man and man with reference to land selling. I do not think your present course of action the right one; and I tell you so plainly. Again I tell you that all such meetings as this one to-day, are worse than useless; you can never effect your object in this way. My advice is, conduct your business properly, in order that you may not ultimately compromise yourself.”

Henare Matua : “ You are right. lam no advocate for violence or lawless measures. I say with yourself, let us seek redress in the Courts of Law, perhaps you are right in saying that Parliament will refuse to adjudicate.”

Henare Matua then shook hands with both Mr. and Mrs. Wyllie in an apparently friendly spirit and this concluded the business of the day. I may state that the whole proceedings of the meeting were conducted with the utmost order and decorum; there was no attempt to burke the free expression of opinions on both sides, although these could not have been over palatable to most of the people present.