PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIV, Issue 5818, 21 November 1879, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, November 20. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. GENERAL. The usual anion t of preliminary business was disposed of.—The Hou. Colonel Brett asked leave to withdraw his motion re the Armed Constabulary on the West Coast, which was granted. APPEALS AGAINST OVER-VALUATION. The Hon. Mr. IVATERHOXJisE moved,— That in the opinion of this Council, in face of the large increase of direct taxation which is likely shortly to occur, it is important that other means of appeal against excessive valuations of property than those at present existing should be provided,—The hon. mover said the necessity for more and better facilities for appealing against over valuation had been long felt, aud this necessity had been increased by the imposition of the land tax. He quoted instances of the gross hardship and injustice that had been felt by different individuals with regard to over-valuation under that tax, where they had been put to great expense and trouble in appealing. He suggested that with regard to valuations the same rule should be followed as was in force in the Customs, where an importer valued his own goods, aud the Customs had the option of buying them at 10 per cent, over the owner's valuation. He thought if property owners were allowed to affix their own values with the understanding that the State should be allowed to buy at 10 per cent, over their own valuation, it would he an efficient check to under-valuation—it would tend in the reverse direction.—The Hon. Mr. HOLMES seconded the motion, and quoted further instances of injustice committed under the land tax. He thought the valuers were often incompetent to value, and those appealed to—the Resident Magistrates—often knew nothing whatever of the value of land.—The Hon. Sir F. D. Bell supported the motion, giving more cases of over-valua-tion, but defending the officers of the Land Tax Department, who had great difficulties to couteud with. Ha thought the Treasurer’s estimate in the Financial Statement of the total of taxable properly in the colony was far ton great.—The Hou. Captain Fraser said he believed the valuers under the Land Tax Act had valued under the impression that they were to get a commission on the values affixed. —The Hon. Colonel Whitmore did not think there could be better courts of appeal than the R.M. Courts. A man need not be an expert in the value of land to be a good arbitrator. He was more likely to be unprejudiced if he was not an expert. He did not think the system recommended by Mr. Waterhouse would work. It had failed in America. Iu depressed times people would purposely undervalue their property, so that they might get ready money for it from the Government when money was of very high value. He thought many of the appeals against the land tax had been brought on the principle of “ try it on.” He quoted instances in support of this contention. There could be no doubt that the valuations throughout the colony had been extremely unequal, in some cases scandalously low in others enormously too high.—The Hon. Mr. Whitaker said the errors committed by the Land Tax department were mainly through the short time allowed for the work. He had warned Che Government of this when the Act was passed. He saw difficulties in the way of treating real "property in the same way as imports were by the Customs. Ha thought the land tax officers had done their very beat in the circumstances. In proposing new taxation, the Government would do their utmost to make the burden press as little unpleasantly as possible. The Council would be able to judge of that when the new proposals came before them. He had no objection to the motion passing. He could not agree that a judge must be an expert in the matter judged.—-ho had merely to weigh evidence.— iMotion carried. FIRST READINGS. The District Courts Act Amendment Bill, the Timaru Wa-erworks Bill, the Protection of Animals Act Amendment Bill, the Hamilton Volunteer Hall Site Bill, and the Miners’ Rights Fees Redaction Bill (all from the Lower House), were read a first time. SECOND READING—COMMITTEE. The Christchurch Drill-shed Bill was read a second time, the New River Pilot Station Bill, and the Oamaru Harbor Board Bill were passed through committee. Several other Bills made further progress in committee. The Council rose at 5.20. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, November 19. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. GENERAL. Several petitions were presented, notices of motion given, and papers laid upon the table. QUESTIONS. In answer to Mr. Reeves, The Hon. Mr. OLIVER said it was not his intention to place a sum of money on the Estimates for the purpose of building a draybridge to connect Greymouth and Cobden. It would cost £12,000 or £14,000 to build such a bridge, and in the present state of the finances the country could not afford that sum. Mr. REEVES asked the Government, —If they will take into consideration the desirability of reverting to the former practice of local paymasters, in order to facilitate payment of local contractors ? The Hon. Mr. OLIVER replied that the present system was found to work very well. Mr. STEWART asked the Minister for Public Works,— If he will state the area of laud belonging to the Government at Addington; from whom the same was purchased; the amount of purchase money ; the date of purchase ; and through whom the purchase was effected ; the estimated cost of the Addington Workshops, stating separately the outlay incurred in levelling and forming the land, the expense of the buildings, machinery, &c. ; the value of the available plant belonging to the old workshops ; the value of the rolling stock ordered during the last financial year, and whether such orders were provided for in last year’s appropriations; from what countries such rolling stock was obtained, and where the same was manufactured ? In answer to the question, the Minister of Railways laid the following information before the House :—Estimated cost of workshops, levelling, and forming ground, £250 ; sidings, £2775 ; buildings, £II,BOO ; drainage, &e., £4530; estimated cost of machinery—estimated value of machinery and plant iu old shops, £3075 ; estimated cost of new machineryordered, £9778 ; total, £32,208. Area of land, 25 acres 2 roods 6 perches ; cost, £8545 13>. 4d. ; also, 1 acre 1 rood 25 perches, price not agreed upon ; land acquired by the Provincial Government of Canterbury, £5, cost, £1575. The original cost for forming tha ground and erecting buildings at Addington was £-53,470 ss. No estimate received of the cost of machinery nor the value of available plant belonging to the old shop. Including an order sent on the 22nd June, 1878, the value of the rolling stock and machinery ordered last year for working railways in Canterbury and Otago, and allowing for erection, was about £270,000. The amount for additional rolling stock on the Estimates was about £21,000. Six locomotives, ten carriages, and all the workshops machinery were ordered from America ; the remainder of the orders went to England. BILLS. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time :—The Timaru Harbor Board Empowering Bill—iu committee (Mr. Turnbull), a Bill to provide that powers be granted to Clutha Harbor Board—in committee (Mr. Thomson). AUCKLAND RAILWAY WOEKSHOES, Mr. HAMLIN moved,—That a committee be appointed to inquire into and report to this House within two weeks as to the most suitable and least expensive place for erecting the railway workshops for the provincial district of Auckland. Such committee to consist of Messrs. Oliver, Maoandrew. _ToIe, Whyte, Harris, Bunny, J. T. Fisher, Whitaker, Beeves, and the mover. Five to be a quorum. The Hon. Mr. OLIVER hoped the motion would not be pressed. After some discussion the House divided with the following' result;— Ayes, 17 : Allvvright, Andrews, De Lautour, Hamlin (teller), Harris, Hislqp, Hursthouae, McDonald, Reeves, Shanks, Shephard, Shrimski, Tomoana, Turnbull, Whitaker (teller), Whyte, and Wright. Noes, 44 : Adams, Atkinson, Bain, Ballanae, Bowen, Golbeck, Dick, Fulton, Gibbs, Gisborne, Hall, Hirst, Hurst, Hutchison, Ireland, Johnston, Kelly, Levin, Lundon, Macandrew, Mason, McLean, Montgomery, Moss (teller), Murray, Oliver, Pitt, Pyke, Reid, Rolleston, Russell, Saunders, Speight, Stevens, Sutton, Swanson, Tawhai, Thomson, Tole (teller), Trimble, Wakefield, Wallis, Willis, and Wood. ORDERS OF THE DAT. On the motion of Mr. Pyke the second reading of the Alexandra Corporation Reserve Bill was agreed to, and it was referred to the Waste Lands Committee.

Mr. Wright moved the second reading of the Forest Trees Planting Encouragement Bill. Agreed to and ordered to be committeed on Wednesday next. Major WILLIS moved the second reading of .the Wellington Provincial District Highway Board Bill. Agreed to.

Mr. THOMSON moved the Width of Streets and Roads Bill, which has for its object tbe laying out of public street at a width of at least 66 feet.

Mr. FULTON gave notice that he should oppose the Bill. On the motion of Captain Russell the Napier and Meanee Recreation Ground Bill was read a second time. The Hon. JOHN HALL moved the second reading of the Counties Act Amendment Bill, which was agreed to, and its committal ordered for to-day.

On the motion of Mr. Johnston the Palmerston Work Reserves Bill was read a second time.

On the motion of Mr. Wakefield the Registration of Dogs Bill was read a second time. It provides for a uniformity in the dog tax throughout the colony. Mr. HURST moved the second reading of the Auckland Harbor Board Bill was agreed to. The Canterbury Rivers Act Amendment Bill was also read a second time. Sir GEORGE GREY moved the second reading of the Prevention of Corrupt Practices Bill. The Hon. JOHN HALL said he should not oppose the Bill, but he should feel it his business in committee to move very material alterations ; very much extending the offences to be included. The Oreti Bridge and Ferry Reserves Bill was read a second time. Mr. HUTCHISON moved the Municipal Corporations Act, 1876, Amendment Bill.—Agreed to. The Eaitangata and Wangaloa Athenseura Reserves Bill was read a second time. LOCAL INDUSTRIES. Adjourned debate on the question,—That, in the opinion of this House, His Excellency the Governor should be moved to issue a Commission to take evidence at the principal commercial centres of New Zealand, and to report upon tho operation of the present tariff, with a view to such a readjustment of the Customs duties as may be considered best calculated to foster the various branches of industry now established within the colony. Amendment proposed by the Hon. John Hall : At the end of the Question to add tho following words : —" If, in the opinion of tbe Government, upon consideration of the Report of the Select Committee now sitting upon the promotion of native industries, it •hall appear expedient to do so,’’ The Hon. JOHN HALL withdrew his amendment. On the motion being put, it was declared to be lost on tbe voices. ORDERS OP THE DAY. The orders of the day were resumed. The House went into committee to consider the Awatere Shearing Reserve Bill (Mr. Sbtmoub) Mr. Thomas Kelly in the «halr. After some discussion, it was moved that progress be reported, but the motion was negatived on a division. The discussion was interrupted by the hour for adjournment. On the House resuming in the evening, Mr. DELAUTOUR moved that the House might resume in order to ask the Speaker’s ruling whether such a Bill, being a money Bill, could be brought before the House except by message or in committee of the whole. The motion was agreed to, and the Speaker resumed the chair.

Mr. DELAUTOUR theu asked the Speaker’s ruling. He would suggest that the Bill was either. a money Bill or a private Bill, as it dealt with a reserve which was now vested in the Governor. It was an appropriation Bill, and he would therefore ask the ruling of the Speaker on the subject. His own impression was that it was a public and a money Bill, and that it ought to have been introduced by message or in a committee of the whole House.

The SPEAKER ruled that the Bill was not a money Bill, and that it was quite competent for the House to deal with it. Mr. KELLY theu resumed the chair for the reconsideration of the Bill, Mr. SHRIMSKI said the conduct of the promoters of the Bill was not fair, and he should accordingly move that tbs chairman do leave the chair.

After some further remarks, a division was taken, being called for by Mr. Shiumski. The motion was lost by a large majority. After some further discussion the Bill was reported with amendments. On the motion for the House going into committee to consider the Wanganui Endowed Sehool Bill, The Hon. Mr. ROLLESTON said he did not like the Bill, and he hoped it would not be forced on.

The Hon. Mr. BRYCE hoped the Bill would become law. The question was a very important one, and would not longer brook delay. Colonel TRIMBLE supported the Bill, but thought it might be improved. He hoped the principle affirmed in the Bill would be applied to the whole of the trusts throughout the colony. Sip GEORGE GREY spoke at considerable length against the Bill, which was as strongly supported by Mr. Hutchison, Air. AIAOANDREW having attended all the committee meetings, had come to the conclusion that the Bill was a verjl fair and a very proper one, and he could not see the evils in it which had been referred to by some of the speakers. Air. BOWEN would like to have heard the views advocated at the committee by the hon. member for the Thames, and it was a pity that that gentleman bad absented himself from that meeting. There was no doubt that in some respects the trust might have been better managed; but it rqnst be remembered that it had to struggle with a great many difficulties which were only now being surmounted. He did not agree with the matter being pushed forward, and he was afraid that the provisions of the Bill would not be satisfactory. He would therefore rather see the matter postponed in order to look into the provisions of this and similar trusts throughout the country. Mr. HISLOR supported the motion, and said it would be time to interfere with them as soon as as good a case was made out on their behalf as was made out in regard to the trust before the House. . Mr. HURSTIIOUSE was in favor of the matter being postponed until the Government could introduce a comprehensive measure to deal with all trusts of a similar kind in the same way. Air. ANDREWS reviewed several of the clauses of the Bill, and suggested their improvement. He should certainly oppose the Bill in its present condition, Mr. SWANSON supported the Bill. Air. SPEIGHT suggested that a commission should be appointed to inquire into the working of the trusts throughout the whole country. Air. HURST agreed with the last speaker, that the whole matter should be dealt with in a comprehensive spirit.

Air. GIBBS opposed the Bill. Mr. TURNBULL hoped the BUI would be postponed. Mr. GISBORNE supported the Bill, which he said was greatly needed. Mr. PITT spoke against the Bill, and moved as an amendment that it be read that (Jay three months. Seconded by Mr. Tole. Mr. MONTGOMERY thought it was quite time the House stepped in with a BUI of this kind, and he hoped there would be no factious opposition to it, but that it would be carried, ■ Air. PITT withdrew his resolution, and Mr. Ballakcb replied oh the whole question, and reviewed the arguments used by the various speakers who had opposed the committal of the Bill.

The motion for committal was then put and declared to be carried on the voices. A division was called for, and resulted as follows Ayes (37). —Messrs. AUwright, Andrews, Bain, Ballance, Barron, Bryce, Bunny, Colbeck, Finn, J.B. Fisher, J. T. Fisher, Gisborne, Hislop, Hutchison, Kelly. Laudon, Alacandrew, Mason, AlcDonald, Murray, Montgomery, (teUer), Pyke, Reeves, Saunders, Shanks, Sheehan, Stewart, Swanson, Tainui, Thomson Tomoana, Trimble, Turnbull, Wallis,Whitaker, Whyte, and Wood. Noes (26). —Alessrs. Bowen, De Lautour, Fulton, Gibbs, Grey, Hall, Hamlin, Harris, H. Hirst, Hursthouse (teller), Levin, McLean, Pitt (teller), Reid, Rolleston, Seddon, JShephal'd, Speight, Studholme, Sutton, Tawhai, Tole, WakeliuUl,' and Willis. The House then went into committee on the

Bill, but ■' . . Mr. HAMLIN said, in. order to give bon, members an opportunity of reflecting on the Bill, he would move that tbs chairman leave the chair, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The motion was declared to be lost, but a division was called for, and resulted as follows; —Ayes, 25 ; noes, 31. The committee then proceeded to consider the various clauses of the Bill. Amendments were moved at every stage, and a large number of divisions were taken, many of them for reporting progress, and ail of which were lost. At half-past eleven, the Hon. John Hall said he should no longer oppose tbe Bill, upon which Mr. Lundon advised Mr. Hall to go home and get himself recuperated for the arduous work which lay before him next week.

Considerable discussion followed, and ultimately progress was reported, and leave given to sit again. The Riverton Drlilshed Reserve Bill was then read a second time.

The Knmara Education Reserves Leasing Bill was referred to the Goldfields Committee.

The amendments made in the Mining Companies Act 1872 Amendment Bill were agreed to, and the third reading made an order of the day for Wednesday. The amendments in the Mines Act 1877 Amendment Bill were agreed to, and the Bill was read a third time and passed. The House then went into committee to consider several Bills. Subsequently progress was reported, and the House adjourned.