PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5479, 18 October 1878, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, October 17. The Hon. the Acting-Speakeb took the chair at 2.30 p.m. repeals bill. A message was received fiom the Governor with the Repeals Bill, recommending an alteration in the schedule. reports, &c. A report was brought up recommending the passing of the Public Reserves Sale Bill on certain alterations being made. Some other reports on local Bills were also brought up and papers laid on the table. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. The Hon. Captain BAILLIE moved, —That leave of absence be granted to the Honorable Dr. Renwick, on account of illness, for the rest of the session. (Hear, hear.)—Agreed to. NELSON HARBOR BOARD. The Hon. Mr. J. JOHNSTON moved, — That the intrim report of the select committee of the Council, to whom was referred the Nelson Harbor BUI, be adopted.—Agreed to. MR. E. M. WILLIAMS. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL moved,—That the papers relative to the removal of Mr. E. M. Williams, ordered on the 16th instant to bo laid upon the table, be printed in the appendix to the Journals of this session.—Agreed to. PARNELL RESERVES BILL. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE moved,— That the Parnell Reserves Bill be read a third time on Friday next.—The Hon. Dr. POLLEN opposed the motion emphatically, condemning the diversion of the endowments of the Auckland Lunatic Asylum.—The Hon. G. R. Johnson also strongly opposed the Bill.— Discussion on the Bill was postponed, the third reading being made an order of the day Cor Friday, THIRD READINGS. The following Bills were read a third time ; serve, Hamilton Public Hall Site, Timaru High Sohoel Bill, and Riverton Harbor Endowment and Borrowing. JURIES ACT AMENDMENT. The amendments made by the House of Representatives were agreed to. CUSTOMS TARIFF BILL. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE said the necessity for the Bill had been to some extent a concession to the public opinion that the duties on necessaries were too high. As to ad valorem duties, that system had not had the result expected, and there had been no great increase. It was not to be denied that this system tempted to immorality in trade. However, it was doubtful if the ad valorem system ever had a fair trial; therefore they did not purpose to altogether do away with it. The hon. gentleman went on to explain the way the difficulty of the loss of the Beer and Companies’ Incomes Duty Bills was to ho got over, and Colonel Whitmore threw no new light on the Government intentions or finance. —The Hon. Mr. Reynolds oriticised’and condemned the Government proposals for altering the incidence of taxation.. He laughed at such wretched legislation as the Companies’ Incomes Duty Bill, and advised them not to think of bringing forward such a’tax at any fnture!time. He considered the Bill would not affect the working classes at all. It was true that they could, by the alteration of the tariff, get arsenic and salted beef duty free. Then they were to have perambulators duty free. Ho (Mr. Reynolds) was afraid hon. members of that Chamber could not hope for much benefit from that. [The Hon. Mr. Hall : That is for future generations and for all time.] However, he thought the lowering of the impost on tea and sugar important, and he would not oppose the second reading. He regretted that the concessions in the direction of lower duties did not go much farther. The Hon. GEORGE BUCKLEY alluded to the power behind the throne as influencing the Government in altering the taxation. H» considered what had been done had been done haphazard. Ho thought the Customs were cheated by dishonest traders under the ad valorem system, and criticised the alterations, saying they would have but little effect. The Hon. Mr. JOHNSTON thought the sinking fund a bogus sinking fund. He was of opinion that the working men required no concession whatever. Wages never were higher, and they were quite able to pay the present duties. The Hon. Mr. HOLMES thought the Government had had an admirable opportunity of dealing with the incidence of taxation, owing to the large sum received from the Land Fund. Seeing that such a large sum had been received, he thought instead of increasing the general taxation the Government have lowered it. Speaking of the Railway Bill, he dwelt on the meagreness of the infor--1 mation conveyed in , it, and said such a proposal as to devote six or seven millions of money on such bald data had never before been heard of. Mr. Holmes advocated . an income and property tax. After some : general remarks, he proceeded to say that the I working classes never were better off, and did j not require, nor look for any remission of f duties.

The Hon. Captain FRASER would like to see the land tax doubled, and hoped that would be done next; but the tax should reach property all round, and really relieve the workingman. He would support the Bill. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE saidthere were one or two respects in which he disagreed with the Bill. Speaking of Aurtralian wines, he thought there should be reciprocity. He would prefer the French and Spanish wines, because the Australian wines were so largely fortified with spirits of wine. Further, he thought they could not spare the duty. As to the Railways BUI, ho trusted it would not reach that Chamber in the condition in which it was originally introduced. Looking at the state of Europe, at the fate of the Bank of Glasgow, wo might depend that lenders in England would bo chary of making further loans; and ho believed we had arrived at a critical period, and that reductions in the tariff were unwise. Ho could not avoid the conclusion that the Land Fund must necessarily largely fall off. This had been no new thing; the same had been ob-. served in America and the Australian colonies. The sales ran up for a few years ; then came the reaction. VWe should guard against the serious results which might follow. Sir D. BELL thought the Colonial Secretary had been tedious in his remarks. Ho criticised the remarks of that hon. gentleman on the Sinking Fund, which he said were entirely at variance with the statement of tho Treasurer in the other Chamber. He proceeded to quote the words of Colonel WhitmThe Hon. Colonel WHITMORE: Tho hon gentleman is quoting mo incorrectly, and h knows it. Sir D. Bell appealed to tho Acting-Speaker, who said the language was unparliamentary, and Colonel Whitkore explained that ho meant to. say that tho hon. gentleman must know that be was quoting him incorrectly. In some further remarks, Sir. F. D. Bull thought the Government were right in their reductions in the tariff. He congratulated the Colonial Secretary on taking rank a» _» liberal The duty on bellows was reduced in order to enable the Government to blow. Ho criticised the various reductions in a humorous manner, making hon. gentlemen laugh heartily. The Hon. Mr. HALL shared very greatly the apprehensions of Mr. Waterhouse, but remarks just then would be no use. He thought to build such high expectations on the Land Fund was a dangerous delusion. The Hon. Mr. MILLEK thought the Land Tax Bill a mistake. Ho believed it would bo necessary to repeal the tax. Speaking of tho Customs, he thought the working men wet. tho most prosperous class in the community. He therefore disagreed with the redaction of tho duties which he thought an entire mistake. Ah income tax was the fairest tax you could have. He was much disappointed with the conduct of the Government. Taking off this £IOO,OOO was a mistake. He thought tho proposals of the Government were not founded on sound' principles. The Hon. Mr. LAHMANN rejoiced m tho introduction of the land tax. He advocated » general and equitable scheme of taxation. The Hon. Mr. HART thought the colony could not go on with the present tension. Ho felt we were not in a position wisely to give up so large a proportion of taxation. The Hoc, Mr. PEACOCK criticised the differences in the tariff. The Hon. Mr. CHAMBERLIN looked upon the Bill as a step in the wrong direction. He thought the Bill totally against the interests and prosperity of the country, and that the Government ehould have waited till next session and produced a general measure. A property and income tax waa the correct thing. He would support small protective duties, so as to foster manufactures. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE replied.. He failed to understand what was meant by the power behind the throne. He was fortunate enough to have several friends who carefully sent him, any newspaper articles that were particularly hitter against tho Government, and he read tho newspapers him-

self; but: lie bad hitherto hoard nothing of this power behind tire throne. Ho explained the' reasons of some of the distinctions in the tariff which appeared strange. The reason for striking off the duty on wira was this, wire was a tax on land-owners, and they were now the only class which were subject to direct taxation. Ho replied at some length to various objections, and The Bill was then read a second time, committed, reported, read a third time, and passed. DISQUALIFICATION BILL. This Bill was read a second time on the motion of Mr. Wilson after considerable diacusBion. ■ It was moved to commit the Bill forthwith, when a division was colled for, which resulted —Ayes, 9 ; noes, 6. A division was colled for on the first clause —Ayes, 13 ; noea, 4, Clause 4.—Contractors and civil servants disqualified,—The Hon. Mr. Reynolds moved to insert.the words “knowingly and wilfully.” Some discussion ensued, and tho amendment was lost on the voices.—Progress was then reported. The Council adjourned at 1.15 a.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, October 17. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. NOTICES OF MOTION, Notices of motion were given by Sir George Grey, Messrs. Ballance, Keoves, Kelly, Thomson, Bryce, Russell, and McMinn. WASTE LANDS COMMITTEE. Mr. CURTIS moved that tho quorum of the Waste Lands Committee bo reduced to three.—Agreed to. REPORTS. Mr. KELLY brought up two reports from the Public Petitions Committee. Mr. HE LAUTOUR brought up reports from the Goldfields Committee. PAPERS, Papers were laid on the table by the Hon. Mr. Stout, SATURDAY SITTING. Mr, FELD WICK asked whether tho Government would propose that the House should Bit on Saturday, in order, if possible, to allow Southern members to proceed to their homes by the s.s. Arawata on Monday. Sir GEORGE GREY replied that the Goveniment would consider the question put before the House this evening. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS AMENDMENT ACT. Mr. MURRAY asked, without notice, — Whether the Government intended to proceed with the Municipal Corporations Amendment Bill this session ? The Hon. Mr. STOUT : Yes. MESSAGES. A message was received from his Excellency the Governor, transmitting an amendment to the Waitaki High School Bill, to the effect that the school should be subject to the inspection of an inspector appointed by the Minister for Education. On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Stout, the House concurred in the amendment. Another message,was received from his Excellency the Governor, stating that a sum of money had been placed on the Supplementary Estimates to carry but the recommendation of the committee on the petition of John Chalmers, senior, and John Chalmers, junior. RUMORED MURDER. Mr. BARER said there was a rumor in circulation to the effect that another murder had been committed at Waimate Plains, and he should like to hear from the Government whether there was any truth in that rumor ? The Hon- Mr. SHEEHAN said there was no foundation whatever for the report. Certain differences had arisen on the West Coast, and it was hia intention to leave for that part of the North Island immediately after tho session, which he hoped would not be long. • : LAKE wakatipu. Mr. MANDERS asked the Minister of Lands, —(1) Whether ha is aware that repeated applications. have been made for the opening Run No, 346, head, of Lake Wakatipu, Otago, for agricultural settlement ? (2) Whether he is aware that a petition was, in July last, presented to the Waste Lands Board in support of such applications ? (3) Whether he is in possession, of any information which will enable him to state that measures will be adopted for opening said run for settlement, in accordance with the wish of the residents of the district and the petitioners who have applied to tho Waste Lands Board of Otago for the same I (4) Whether he has any objection to lay all correspondents, reports, and other information connected with these matters, befor this House ? The Hon. Mr. STOUT replied that the Government was aware applications bad been made. The Government would inquire into the subject, and would have no objection to lay all correspondence on the subject on the table. 6. J. EDMONDS. Mr. SWANSON asked the Native Minister, —Whether the Government will give effect to the recommendation of the Public Petitions Committee in the case of S. J. Edmonds. The Hon. Mr, SHEEHAN said this matter opened up the whole question of compensation.. The Government would consider the question during the recess, and would intimate next session what course they intended to pursue. JTEW TELEGRAPH STATION. Mr. REEVES aaked the Postmaster-Gene-ral, —If he will institute inquiry as to the advisabiliay of the establishment of a telegraph station at Capelston or Boatman's ? The Hon. Mr. FISHER was understood to reply in the affirmative. CANCELLATION OF PASTORAL LEASES. Mr. PSTKE asked the Government, —Whether they will lay before this House the correspondence between the Minister of Lands and other persons respecting the cancellation of pastoral leases, and the opening of lands for settlement id the Otago Provincial District! The Hon. Mr.. STOUT replied in the affirmative. 1 WANOAEHU TALLEY. Mr. BEETHAM aaked the Minister for Public Works,—lf the Government, during the recess, will cause a flying survey to be made of the Wangaehu Valley, for the purpose of proving whether the line of railway now vurveyed by Opaki and Eketahuna is the best adapted for the purposes of the through railway line ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW said the contract to Masterton was not expected to-be finished until March, 1880, and there would be plenty of time in the interim to determine which route would ba the most advantageous to the district and the colony, and such route would be adopted « NATIVES AT WAITAKI. Mr. TAIAROA asked the Government, — What course they intended to pursue in reference to the occupation by certain Natives of lands at Waitaki, in the Middle Island ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN said that he intended to carry out the law. The occupation of this property was illegal. In the event of the Natives refusing to leave he should have to take the ordinary course of law to compel them to do so. It was tho intention of the Government to give them a block of Crown land somewhere else, which was fit for cultivation. > EDUCATION ACT AMENDMENT DILL. The debate on this Bill was resumed. Dr, WALLIS said he would vote for the second reading of this Bill. , It was a mistake to suppose that this Bill was more favorable to the Roman Catholics than it was to Protestants, Catholics, or. any other sect. The Catholics were anxious that their children should receive a religious education as well as a secular education. While he praised the Roman Catholics for this, he must say that he regretted the apathy that was shown l>y Protestants with regard to the religious instruction of their children. The Roman Catholics, as taxpayers, desired to have the assistance of the Government in building schools, and they also asked to be allowed to select teachers out of the list ;o£ those who had obtained certificates, The/BUI would confer this act of simple justice not only on the Roman Catholics, but on all those who wished to see their children instructed in religious matters. The House should encourage them to do everything in this direction. The Bill aimed at securing this object; it sought to make 'the sects, churches, and denominations auxiliaries in the cause of education. It aimed at making the education of the country less sectarian than it really was, and did not interfere in what he would call the hypocrisy of free education. He only objected to the BUI of the bon. member for Nelson, on tho ground that it did not propose to do away with the hypocrisy of free education. Ho objected to free education. In his opinion, free education was the first step towards communism. Free education was the most expensive kind of education. The working classes, be was glad to say, took a deep interest in tho education of their children; but make that education free, and they destroy tho moral effects which flowed from tho fact of the working t???* having to contribute towards their chuarcn’s education. It was a kind of outdoor relief,, and in order to provide that °?JI? 00T re^e * People were taxed who bad no children at all, and others who did not make use of tho public schools, or whose children were over U years of age. Ho believed tho

State was doing a great mischief in taking into its own hands the general education of the young. It created ,a monopoly of .the most objectionable kind, so far as education was concerned. Variety and diversity would be given to education by tho adoption of the Bill of the hon. member for Nelson, and the present objectionable monopoly would be destroyed. The House should bear in mind that the legislation in the matter of education was repugnant to tho conscience of many thousand* of the population. All religious denominations would participate in the advantages which the Bill of tho hon. member for Nelson, city would confer, and he trusted the House would agree that it should become law. Mr. JOYCE considered that the BUI of the hon. member for Nelson was universal, and would tend to bring about a feeling of liberty, equality, and fraternity among the people of New Zealand in the truest sense of the term. He would therefore vote for the measure. There were loud cries of “ Question.” The question wes then put, and the Bill was shelved by the following division against the second reading of the Bill: Ayes, 32.—Atkinson, Baigcnt, Barff, J. C. Brown, Bunny, Curtis (teller), De Lautour, Dlguan, Douglas, Felclwlck, Gibbs, Gisborne, Henry, Hursthouse, Johnston, Joyce, Kenny, Manders, McMinn, MurrayAynsloy, O’Korke (teller). Fyke, Reeves, Russell, Sharp, Sutton, Tawiti, Tolo, Turnbull, "Wallis, Wood, Woolcock. Noes, 38.—Ballance, Beetham, Bowen, J. E. Brown, Bryco, Cutton, Fisher, George, Green (teller), Hamlin, Hislop, Hodgkinson, Hunter, Kelly, Macandrcw, Macfarlane, McLean, Montgomery, Moorhouse, Moss, Murray, Naho, Oliver, Richardson, Rolleston, Rowe, Saunders, Sheehan, Shrimski, Stevens, Stout. Swanson, Taiaroa, Takamoana,. .Teschemaker, Thomson (toller), Wasbn, Williams. The announcement of the division was received with loud cheers by the “noes.” Mr. BARFF said this division would show the Government tho necessity that existed for considering during the recess what amendments should be made in the present system of education. Unless changes were made, he believed the whole thing would break down. The second reading of the Bill this day six months was then formally carried on tho voices, and the matter dropped. HARBORS BILL. / On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Stout, this Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. SHEEP BILL, The House went into committee to consider this Bill, and after some hours’ consideration progress was reported. SUPPLY. On the motion that the House go into Committee of Supply, Mr. SUTTON rose to criticise the native policy of the Government. He denied that the policy of the Native Minister was a “ face-to-face policy,” and condemned the continuance of what "was called personal Government. As to the reports of the Waikato and Waitara meetings laid on - the table, a more disgraceful paper, as a State paper, had never been laid on the table of the House, and he read extracts from the papers as to Mr. Sheehan’s bumps having been felt, Sir George Grey having had to resist the blandishments of a rangatira who wished to rub noses with him, jokes about the Auckland Evening Star , and the proceedings of the natives in connection with performances on kerosene tins. Were these proper things to lay before the House in a State paper ? He denied that the Native affairs of the country were at all in a satisfactory state, and pointed to several outrages of late, particularising the murder at Waimate Plains in proof of his statement. The Native Minister had quite changed his policy since last year, and the Native Lands Bill, which he had foreshadowed in his speech lately, was a Bill which would place far too much power in the hands of the Governor-in-Cquncil, which power would be used in serving political allies who were engaged in land purchasing. But where was the BiU. which the Government had promised. He concluded by moving that it was desirable that the House should •be informed whether the Government intend to proceed with the Native Lands Bill this session. Mr. FOX remarked that the speech of the Native Minister was no reply to the criticism of Mr. Suttnn. The House then went into committee. Public Domains and Buildings.—A long discussion arose on the expenditure of £4OOO in connection with the Parliamentary Buildings during the recess, and very general complaints were made as to the ventilation of the House. It appeared that the buildings were under the control of the Speaker, in terms of a resolution of the House, and this caused a good deal of dtscussion, many members thinking that the Minister for Public Works should be made wholly responsible for the expenditure on the House.—Passed. Crown Lands, £41,500. Passed. Surveys, £128,636. —Mr. Murray moved the excision of £9OO for the Surveyor-General. They did not want this ornamental gentleman. Amendment negatived. Arrears of survey, £34,512. Passed. Goldfields, £27,188. Passed. The House rose at 3.20.