PARLIAMENT.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, XUKSDAV, September' 17. The Speaker took the chair at 2 30 p.m. I’ETUTONS. Petitions were presented by Messrs. WilBarff, McLean, Tole, Murray, and Grey. NOTICES OF MOTION. Notices of motion were given by Messrs. Atkinson, Montgomery, Sutton, and Gisborne. REPORTS. Mr. BRYCE brought up several reports from the Native Affairs Committee, winch were ordered to lie on the table. Mr. CURTIS brought up a report from the Waste Lauds Committee, which was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. O‘RGRKE brought up the report of the Joint Committee on Bills, reporting that they considered the Te Aro Reclamation Bill was a private Bill. Mr. Be LAUXOUII brought up several reports from the Goldfields Committee, which were ordered to lie on the table. Mr. KELLY brought up several reports from the Public Petitions Committee, soma of which were ordered to lie on the table, and others referred to the Government. RETURN. The Hon. Mr/SHEKHAN laid a return on the table showing, all dismissals and discharges from the Police Force in the Middle Island, in compliance with a request made on the previous day. LAVING OUT OP TOWNS. Mr. SWANSON asked the Governtheut, — Whether they intend to take steps to regulate the laying out of towns by private persons so that a proper proportion of towns bo set aside in the anost suitable places in them for such purposes as the following;—Endowments in aid of local rates ; reserves in and around the town for health and recreation ; proper space for schools and playgrounds ; sites for mechanic institutes, museums, town hall*, courthouses, post, telegraph, and police offices,' reformatories, fire brigade stations, drill sheds, &c.; proper provision for the width of streets, water supply, drainage ; and, generally, that suitable provision is made for the health nid « r ood government of the inhabitants ? The Hon. Mr. STOUT pointed out that the Government had no power to out the suggestion made, unless the House conferred the power upon them. He was personally inclined to favor the proposal. NO TOWN. Mr. REEVES asked the Government, — Why the township of No Town, Grey Valley, has not been sold 1 The Hon. Mr.. STOUT replied that the duty was one belonging to the Waste Lauds Board, and instructions would be issued to the Commissioner to take steps to have the township sold. PLAN OF TOWNS REGULATION ACT. Mr. THOMSON asked the Minister of . Lands, —(1) Whether he would have any objection to lay before this House a return of . all towns laid off on waste lands since Ist January, 1876, to which the provisions of the Plans of Towns Regulation Act, 1875, have k been applied,; and, if there are any towns to . which these provisions have not been applied, whether be would also lay before this House a ■ return of such towns ? - (2) Whether the Go* | vernmeut know of any towns on private lands that have been laid off in accordance with the provisions of said Act ; and, if bo, whether they would state the names of such towns? (3) ’Whether the term “ waste lauds,” as inter- ! preted in section 9 of the Act referred to, includes land reclaimed by the Government or by a Corporation, as, c y., the reclaimed land of the City of Wellington ? The Hon. Mr, STOUT said the Government . would have no objection to lay this return on j the table, Tbo Government were not aware of any case in which the terms of the Act had • not been compile 1 with. With regard to the third question, in all cases where land had been reclaimed it was granted to the Superintendent, and as such had the character of 1 waste lands. DISTRICT COURT OF WESTLAND. Mr. BARFF asked the Minister of Justice, —lf he will lay before this House a return showing what ungazettod sittings of the District Court of Westland have been hel l from the month of June, 1875, to August, 1878, both inclusive; together with adjournments from gazetted and ungazetted sittings ? Also, a return of the total travelling expenses paid by the Government - on vouchers to the Judge of the Court, distinguishiag the gazetted and 1 uugazetted sittings ? The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that the information was now being procured, and it - would bo laid on the table the mojnent it arrived from the West Coast, • X’UUUA BLOCK. Sir ROBE RTDOUGLAS asked the Government, —If they will cause the Waste Lands Board of the Auckland Provincial District to furnish, for the information of this House, copies of all correspondence received by them relative to the opening of* the Purua Block, in the county of Whangarei, for selection under the homestead clauses of the Waste Lauds Act '{ The hon. Mr. STOUT replied that the Government would have no objection to cause the production of this correspondence. CUSTOMS AUTHORITIES AT INVERCARGILL. Mr. FELDWIO K asked the Commissioner 1 of Customs, If he is aware that the Customs authorities at Invercargill will not allow 1 merchants there to bond fencing wire, now 1 landing, the duty on which article is proposed ; to bo remitted on "the Ist of January next : (2) If the course adopted by the Collector of 1 Customs at Invercargill is the only one .he can 5 lawfully follow, whether the Government will make provision for a refund of duty paid, should the Tariff BUI now before Parliament become law ; or, (3), in the meantime— i.c. } to the Ist of January—give merchants permission * to bond fencing wire ? ; The Hon. Mr. BALLANOE replied that : the Commissioner of Customs had no discretion 1 in the matter. The Government wore not prepared to promise that they would make any provision for a refund of the duty paid. PALMERSTON TO WOODVILLE. Mr. ORMOND asked the Government, — Whether provision is made in the Estimates for extending the telegraph line Jfrom Palmerston to Woodville, and for opening a telegraph office at Woodville ■ The Hon. Mr. FISHER replied that provision had been made. DTPTON CROSSING*. Mr, JOYCE asked the Minister foi' Public Works, —(1) Whether he has received a communication from the Southland County Council, with copies of reports by Mr. Austin, Government ResideutEngineer, and MVGeisow, County Engineer, setting forth the impassable state of the bridge over the Oreti River at Dipton Crossing, occasioned by the late Hoods acting on the imperfect foundations of the said bridge ? (2) Whether, under the circumthe Government will place on the supplementary estimates a sum sufficient to repair the bridge, and render it as secure as it would have been if constructed according to the original specifications ? The Hon. Hr. MAO ANDREW replied that he had received correspondence on tins subject, but he had not had time to go into it. He was not aware of any exceptional circumstances that would warrant the Government in undertaking tlic repairs of this bridge. The brid *e was erected by the Provincial Government, and was handed over to the county on the Counties Act coming into operation. If, after reading the correspondence, he found there were any exceptional circumstances in the case, ho would inform the lion, member ; what course he would pursue in the matter. DISTRICT OF WRONG lA. Mr. McMINN asked the Native Minister, ment with regard to certain lands iu the district of Piiongia, Waikato, purchased from Europeans and others by the lato Native Minister, Sir Donald McLean, for the purpose of returning said lands to the King natives . Also, if it is true, as reported, that certain adjoining lauds iu the same district liaVQ been withdrawn from the jurisdiction of the Waste Lands 'Board for the same purpose i The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN replied that it was perfectly true that a considerable quantity of laud was purchased by the late Government iu order to give it to the King natives, but on coinin’' into office the present Government determined that they would not give this laud to the King natives. In a few days he would inform the House what the Government intended to do with the laud in question. THE UINEMOA. Mr. FITZROY a»ked the Government, — When the return, asked for on 2nd August last, showing the total cost of working and maintenance of the Government steamer Hineinoa, from the Ist December, 1877, to the 30th .June, 1878; also, the return giving the names of those persons, other than his Excellency and staff, and Ministers, who, during the aforesaid period, have travelled iu the lliuomoa at the expense of the colony, will be laid before this House ? - ; , . «
Sir GEORGtE GREY replied that a.difficulty bad been experienced in procuring, some of tbs 1 information, required, but tbs work of
preparing the return was still going on, and as soon as it was finished it would be laid on the table. THAMES HARBOR. Mr. ROWE obtained leave to withdraw his motion for leave to bring iu a. Bill to provide for the grant of 100,i'00 acres of laud as au endowment for the • harbor of the Thames, stating that lie only withdrew it because he certain from ,the fate of, the Harbor Bills that there was no chance of getting this land, although it was all required, and the place was entitled to get it. MOUNT IUA TUBIAC WORKS TRUST BILL. On the motion of Mr. De Lautour, this Bill was introduced in committee, reported to the House, read a first time, and the second reading fixed for next day, OAMARU BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION BILL. On the motion of Mr. Hislop, leave was given to bring in this Bill, which was read a first time, and the second reading fixed for Wednesday fortnight. TIMAUU HIGH SCHOOL BILL. On the motion of Mr. Turnbull, this BUI was introduced in committee, reported to the House, read a first time, and the second reading fixed for next day. ELECTORAL BILL. The House again went into committee on the Electoral Bill. Clause 13 wag passed as printed. Clause 17, qualifying every person to vote whose name is enrolled on a ratepayers* roll, was then proposed. Mr. SHARP moved, as an amendment, — That the word “male” be inserted before “person,” thus excluding female ratepayers from voting at the election of a member of the House.
The committee divided, and Mr. Sharp’s amendment was negatived by 23 to -41, The following is the division list:— Axes, *23.. Bcetham Konhy . Stevens Boweu McLean Sutton Curtis Murray-Aynsley Tescliemaker FcUlwlck Beeves Thomson Gibbs Richmond Wakefield Gisborne (teller) Howe Waso x Green llussc'l "Whitaker Joyce Sharp (teller) iN'OKS, 41. Atkinson Uamllu Oliver Baigent Henry Ormond Uallauce Hislop Richardson Barff Hunter Saunders Bryce Hursthousc Seymour Bunny Macandrew tbrimski Carrington Maofarlaue Stout f)e Lautour Slanders Swanson Dignnn McMinn (teller) Tole Douglas Montgomery Turnbull Fisher Moorhouso Williams Fitzroy Morris "Wood -Fox • Moss Woolcock George (teller) Nahe Clause 17 was amended, and as amended was passed by 45 to 19. . , Clause 18, giving a vote to every Maori ratepayer, was postponed on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Stout. ~ Clause 19 was postponed. Clauses 20 and 21 were passed as printed. Iu clause 22, Dr. Hodgkinson moved that the word “male” be inserted between the words “ every” and “person,” in order to exclule females from being eligible for election as members of the House. The • committee divided—Ayes, 38 ; noes, 26. The following is the division list: — • Axes, 38. Baigent Kelly Seymour Bcetham Kenny Sharp Bowen McLean Stevens Brandon McMinn Sutton Carrington Montgomery Swanson Curtis Oliver Teschemaker Feltlwick Fyke Thomson Fisher ■ Beeves Tole* Fitzroy liichardsou Turnbull Gisborne Richmond Wakefield Green Howe Whitaker ' Hodgkinson Russell Wood, Joyce Saunders Noes, 26. Atkinson- Hamlin Murray Ballance Henry Murray-Anslcy Barff Hislop Nahe Bryce Hursthouse Shrimski Bunny Macandrew Stout DeLautowr Macfarlaue Wallis Disnan Manders Wuson Fox Morris Woolcock George Moss The amendment excluding females frouFthe House was therefore carried. The Hon. Mr. FOX moved the insertion of the words “ who shall have attained the age of 25 years” after the words “ every male person.” The amendment was negatived ou the voices. Further amendments to the clause under consideration were being discussed when the dinner hour arrived. The committee resumed at 7 30 p.m. Mr. WAKEFIELD continued to speak in , support of Ids amendment to the 22ud clause of the Bill, excluding all convicts from participation in the legislation of the country. After some remarks from Mr. TURNBULL against the amendment, The Hon. Mr. STOUT suggested that the amendment should be withdrawn for the present, and the matter could be brought up again when the amendment of which the hon. member for Akaroa Imd given notice, came ou for discussion. Mr. WAKEFIELD adopted the hon. the Attorney ■ General’s suggestion, and obtained leave to withdraw his amendment for the present. Progress was then reported, with leave to sit again presently. . NATIVE AFFAIRS STATEMENT.
All tlie galleries of the House were crowded except that set apart for the accommodation of members of the Legislative Council, in which there was not a single occupant. At a quarter to S o’clock, The Hon. Mr. SHEEHAN rose for the'purpose of making his Statement on Native Affairs, and was loudly cheered. After bespeaking the indulgence of the House in consequence of temporary indisposition, he said : Sir, —The time has passed when a statement of native affairs assumes anything of a sensational character. We have done.carrying on an internecine war. Matters have so far advanced nowadays that peaceful settlement is the ordinary condition of the country. (Hear, hear.) Hut, sir, although statements on native affairs in these halcyon days may be wanting in affording matter for sensational telegrams, I think a thoughtful fair statement as to the present position of the native race will always meet with careful attention at the hands of this House. (Hear, hear.) It has not been usual to make a statement on native affairs in this House. I think I myself set the example last year. Previously we had what was called a native affairs statement, but it was simply a very dry ■ Ministerial record of native land transactions, containing very large papers, showing very large apparent results—results not always verified by facts. Last year I went outside that groove, and I propose going outside the groove to night, aud I think it a wise political step. I propose not only to give a history of our management of it, - but a vindication, and as far as possible to give « evidence in proof of our good management. The Native Department has always been a mysterious oue ; probably there has been too much mystery about it, although I know from experience tiiat there are times when - matters should not go outside the Native Ministers offices, aud when it is undesirable even to let this House into the confidence of the office Still X believe in the past that hasbeen carried to au extreme, and I propose to-night, except in some few essential matters, to take the House into the fullest possible confidence on all aspects of the question—giving hon. members the same information as X have myself. (Applause.) Before going into details I might ask the House to look back upon what was the condition of the Native question when we came into office. I say unhesitatingly that the position of the Native question then was unsatistaotoryindeed. Xu the first place, negotiations with that body of the native people who are yet estranged from ns had apparently ceased. The Government seemed to have given it up os a bad job, and had ceased to attempt to arrive at any terms with them whereby the country might bo opened to European settlement and enterprise. It would bo impossible for me withiu the limits I cau claim froth the House to state iu what condition the' Land Purchase Department was in. The gravest complications had arisen, and we had reason to believe that at least threq-fourths of the money spent in negotiating native lands would be lost. In various places the surveys had been stopped, trig, stations broken dowu, and the surveyors themselves deprived of their instruments. The, Native Lauds Court could not succeed in van-. ous parts of the country; especially was that the case in Maketu aud at the Thames, where we had interests pending in hundreds of thousands of acres. Then, on the West Coast largo areas of valuable land, which had been taken in payment for rebellion,-had been allowed to lie untouched so long, that, in ; point of fact, the original Maori owners had begun to think we had given the lands up and were occupier! in leasing it to private Europeans. Coming down overland from Auckland to Wanganui one day, 1., found ;U European driving his cattle over the Waimate Plains. Huquired what was his business, and found lie had actually leased some laud from ttia natives. A few days afterwards he 1 received a summons (or trespassing, on Crown lauds, which was upheld by the Court; and he soon gave up the occupation. Besides that,
there was great supinenesa I think in follow- , ing up the law. Offences of all kinds were allowed to pass untouched, and it was looked upon as a matter of course. This want of apparent courage in the administration of public affairs had a most damaging effect. Besides that, and arising out of* these causes, there was a general, discontent among the whole body of the native population'from one end of the > colony to the other, arising from a want of confidence in the good faith of the Government administering the public affairs, and there was a want of faith in the justice and impartiality of this House. That discontent ' mainly arose from this fact—that for several years past high officers of State and subordinates officers had been engaged in acquiring native land for their own personal use and benefit; that when In fact they seemed to b© acquiring land for the State, or for individual Europeans, they were really acquiring largo estates at low prices for their own personal benefit. (Hear, hear.) Then, again, to make matters still worse, we had all over the country, sometimes iu organised bands, very powerful opposition to Government action by private laud purchasers—opposition which I do not hesitate to declare to have approached the confines of treason—an opposition which, if discovered and traced home to the parties instigating it, would have led to some of them being brought before the Courts of Law. Sir, I think the House will admit that this was formerly the state of affairs. (Government Supporters : Hear, bear.) Now, I wish to ask in what aspect these matters now stand. I believe I will be able to make good what I said at the opening. I shall vindicate our management during the post, and be able to show wo are fit and proper persons to bo entrusted with the management of native affairs in the future. The first difference we made on coming into office was that we endeavored to establish what may be called a face-to-face policy—a policy which would enable us to see where grievances existed, and to determine the justice of the complaints of the native people, and this we . did by visiting the Maoris iu their own settlements and beholding them with our own eyes. That policy we have carried out. Since X have been in office I have visited every important settlement in the North Island—l may say every such settlement from the North Cape to Kaiapol in the South Island- I have seen the greater proi>ortion of the native people, heard on the spot their complaints, and listened to their suggestions. I have advised, assisted, and I think I have restored confidence in the colony. Itmaybesaid these great grievances do not exist, hut I think the natives have grievances, and X may give out of many hundreds of cases one in point—the one which the bon. member for Southern Maori brought before the House when he asked mo a question with reference to the Ngatitoa people in the Nelson Province. I made enquiry into that matter, whenl foundthatoOOO aerta of land was twenty-seven years ago awarded to these people, and they had never been placed iu possession of it Of the persons to whom the land was awarded a large number have died, and if it were kept Irom them a few years more there would be no one left to take it. You may depend upon it these people have many such grievances, and it will be our endeavor to remove them, and carry out promises and awards in good faith. Wherever I find applications to the Government supported by good evidence* or reasonable probability, even though the evidence be verbal, I shall prefer* admitting such claims, and so keeping the honor of the colony, rather than raise legal quibbles in answer to the claim*. (Applause). There does appear to have been a great want of nerve and decision in the conduct of native affairs since the death of Sir Donald McLean. Native land purchasing was* practically left alone, and other matters which ought to have had the most careful attention did not receive that attention. I will give a case in illustration. Last session the then native lands purchase commissioner for the Thames and Taurauga, a most competent mao, who had spent £60,000 or £70,000 for the Government in the purchase of lauds, was actually here in Wellington waiting about for a settlement of his claims. Instead of that settlement taking place at the Thames, where he should have remained to prevent the spoliation of the Government estate, he was down here. He could not carry out his purchases, and he was bound to come here for the purpose of getting a settlement. I do not blame him, but that settlement ought to have been made at once, and he should have either been sent back to complete the work or else sent about hia business entirely and somebody else put iu his place. Before taking up some of these larger questions I might express to the House the views, of the Government on what may be called the social aspect of the question. . I. will first of all deal with the increase or the decrease of the Maori population. In 1874, as I last year informed the House, the native population was about 46,000. This year, although the actual returns have not yet been compiled, I understand the return will show au increase. It is upon that point I wish particularly to address the House. The figures, as I will show presently, are fallacious, aud that arises from this fact: We have no difficulty in getting correct returns of the population so far as the more civilised centres of the country are concerned, and our means of getting at the total population increase year by year, but we have no means and have had no means of getting at the figures to far as the out-districts areconcerned. Hence as time goes on, and we get to knew more about these places, the returns become, more complete, and the population is larger than .was- supposed; but that does not prove that the population is increasing. The figures which will be presented to the House will, I am sorry to say, confirm the statement I made last year that the Maori people as a people are disappearing rapidly, and unless some exertion be made to prevent it the time is not far distant when there will be no survivor of that race. Iwill just show what the effect is of the figures applyingtothemorerichly-peopleddistricts. For instance, Hokianga, Bay of Island-, Mangouni, Whangarei, Kaipara, Tauranga, M>ketu and and Opotiki. Taken together these.districts may be considered more reliable than others, the returns being collected by the. same officers in 1874 and 1878. j The total of these districts, male and female, in 1874, was 16,441; in 1878,14,475; showing a decrease of 1966 in four years, or 12 per cent. The decrease is further apparent when wc consider the difference between the males and females, the former being 7030, the latter 6545, or 17 percent. Any gentleman who'knows anything of the subject must know what that means—that the race will soon become extinct, If the House will bear with me I will devote a very small space of my time to a continuation of What may be regarded as the fairly assignable cause of this decrease. First and foremost I must put the intemperate habits of thu race os a race. There is no question about it that for many years past, for the past ten years at any rate, intemperance has greatly increased amongst them, the result being most: disastrous on men, women, aud children, who have' completely given themselves up to it. Children die off- for want of attention, and the old people die after wasting their substance in bush public-houses. In many 'cases no doubt it is ’also due to their communistic habits, I do not believe for a moment .that their salvation can be accomplished until their mode of living improved. So long as they live in rude huts, without ventilation, huddled up together in the miserable fashion they now are, they must die off, except there is much greater mental activity, and improvement in their mode of living. A report laid upon the table of the House from tbe Tanpo District, which hon. members would do well to read, refers to another cause. There is no doubt that the diet is capable of great improvement. My friend llewi telegraphed to me the other day in reference to Judge Thomas, giving as oqo reason why he objected to Ryotwarry that the natives of India had to live principally upon rice ; but the Maori people do not live upon anything at all superior to rice as an article of diet. Their diet is oL a -very poor kind indeed, as any person who may ; have had to stop at a badly off native settlement must have realised to hia coat, and unless we induce the natives to take a better diet nothing wo can do will have any effect. -In the report which I have just referred to a remark is made which I believe will be,confirmed by the experience of every person who has, given the question at-' teatiou that is the condition of the half-castes, that they are superior in physique to either the Maori or the European parent. That I believe to be absolutely correct. Taken as a whole they are superior in physique either to the Maori or the European parent. At the s« me time, whether the L superiority will show itself mentally is not so certain up to the present time, But you must bear this in mind, the greater proportion of the .men have gone back to live with their Maori relations, and to fall in wilt the native, habits and customs. Another encouraging feature in regard to the people is t!no revival of the religious feeling. This is unmistakeable. From the extreme north of this island to- the south there does exist a very deep desire to return to the religions of tiio past in favor of the Church of
England, the Homan Catholics, and the Wealeyans. They are building churches, providing for ministers, and showing every disposition to go back to the form of worship of earlier days, which they forsook for Hauhauism. At the Hikurangi, where they had given up all forms of worship, this was noticeable, —at that place at the same hour, at the same moment of time, four different kinds of worship were going on. There was our Own—the orthodox one of course—there was the Hauhau worship; thirdly, there was the Tareao; and lastly, there was the new form of worship instituted by Te Kooti, going on. I hold that the*policy of the Government is to refrain from interfering with this religious matter. (Hear, hear.) The other day when in Napier X was visited* by a deputation who said that some natives had broken down the pound at Matia because they believed in the Te Kooti- form of religion, and they wanted me to interfere. I found however, that the people who pulled down the pound had been induced to do so, not because of any form of worship, but because they claimed the land ou which the pound stood. They wanted me to put down/Te Kootiism, but I replied that I could not interfere with Te Kootiism so long as thos» who professed it did not break the law. I think that was the proper coarse. (Hear, hear.) We must leave education aud tbe advance of civilisation to show them the fallacies aud follies of such a system. There is another kind of worship to which I might refer—that is the religion taught by Te Whiti, I have been quite unable to obtain precise inforas to the position in which he places himself in the divinity, but I believe it consists of an alternation from the first person down to the third. At the same time I must admit ho has greatly improved the conduct of his adherents, and that is the great point. (Hear, hear.) With regard to intemperance, notwithstanding what I have said before, I must say I noticed with respect to the East Coast of the North Island, Napier and the King country, and some parts of the West Co:isfc, a much smaller amount of. drunkenness, and the Government have bad repeated applications -to take steps to repress the liquor traffic, in consequence of which I intended to ask the House to adopt some means, to put down the introduction, use, aud sale of spirituous liquors in native districts. Those who were present at the meetings at Waikato and Waitara must have remarked upon the absence of drunkenness among the natives who were present. The natives discovered a European who had secreted two bottles of rum on his person, aud forthwith he was turned out of the camp, and not a single case of drunkenness occurred during the whole meeting. , I am quite anxious that this liquor trade should be put down, and I shall ask the House to give the matter full consideration. I have come to the conclusion that it would be impossible to put tbe Sale of Spirits Ordinance into force. Any law whereby you can prevent a man entering a public-house would, I think, have a most disastrous effect. You can do far better by giving the natives means to keep their own settlements free, aud I intend to ask the House to agree to a measure something of this nature: The Governor himself, or at the request of native people in a district, may bring tbe Act into operation. That being done, the district is proclaimed, and in that district there shall be no licensed house, and no spirituous liquors may be sold, and even the use of such liquors, except for medicinal purposes, will be an offence under the Act. We shall ask the natives themselves to assist in carrying out that Act, and iu fining the people who break through its provisions, and if we can succeed in enlisting their aid, as I think we shall, we shall do more than by any mere acts of our own. {(Hear, hear.) I Till now say a few words in regard to the progress of education among the natives. We have now fifty village schools in operation. During the year six schools were closed for causes to which X shall refer bearing upon the general question; two were opened. The attendance pf children at the schools during the year has been better than in any former year, not only in numbers but iu.regularity of attendance. On June 30 the attendance was 2029, as compared with 1920 during the previous year, or an incrase of 109. That is satisfactory. Last year we spent and this year we propose to spend £14,500, and we propose to establish boarding schools, to which I shall refer presently. I have seen tbe operation of these schoolsjat various places during the recess, and I have come to the conclusion that the native school system will ultimately fail as a means of. education unless its machinery be supplemented in some other way. In the tiist place it will fail because they require bettermasters, and to achieve this object wo have put a sum ou the Estimates for the purpose of increasing the salaries of the masters all round, in order to tempt a better class of men into the service. Up to the present time it has been the practice to make native schools kinds of asylums to which broken down people who have tried everything else and failed might repair—in which men who have spent their substance in riotous living, or spent their substance in drink, might find a refuge. ’ That sort of thing ought to be put a stop to, and we ought to have men of good moral, character and standing to take charge of the education of these children. But. even if we get these superior men the system will fail to accomplish the desired object if no other change takes place. Up to the present time we have simply taught the children a certain amount of English. Now, anyone who has had to visit these settlements either ou Government or any other business, must have noticed that the worst type of man to bo found there is the Maori half-caste who can just understand English. They seem to have no business, and no resources, aud their only pursuit is to make mischief. They have not been sufficiently educated to enable them to earn a living among Europeans, and they return to the savage state, retaining the worst elements in each character. We propose, then, to establish whatlmay term boarding schools, into which children who have attained a certain degree of perfection in the. village schools may be drafted, there to be so further taught as will prevent them lapsing back to tbe old state. They will be thoroughly civilised. It will be well for the House to consider this. During the past few months we have had numerous applications from Maoris to send their children to European schools, because they are really anxious to see their children educated. Only a few days ago I had a letter from Rewi, who has a grandson attending a school in Auckland, i>n the subject of bis education. This is a step which I think will prevent the system breaking down. Sir, it has been the earnest endeavor of tbe department to which I belong to endeavor as much as possible to give to the native children as great an amount of education as possible, and to bring that education into practical nsc in my department as much as possible by the employment of the children of Maori people. The experiment in this direction has been made on several occasions; with, I am glad to say, the highest results. I will mention an instance which I am certain will satisfy the House on this head. A young man was brought down by me Irom the Waikato a few months ago and put In the Telegraph Office. Subsequently he wanted to get to some place down near his people, and I propofed to send him to Onehunga. The head of the department did not want to have to have him sent to Onehunga, but proposed that he should go to Oamaru ; and when I asked the reason for preferring to send the lad to Oamaru I was told that it would be unfair to send him to Onehunga and deprive him of the promotion to which he would be entitled, as he had proved himself so useful in the department. I believe that in the course of time a number of Maori youths will find their way into the public service, am] bo of considerable assistance in that career of life. (Hear, hear.) In the case to which I refer, the lad will bo of great assistance in such a department, as the Telegraph Department, where it often happens that telegrams are sent iu Maori to those who do not understand the language, which is also not understood by tbe clerks who transmit and receive the messages. One important feature in the question as it now stands is that there is a disposition to allow mixed schools, and in the native schools now maintained by us a considerable number of European children are also to be found. This amalgamation of the races has done a great deal of good ; it has broken down the social harriers which formerly existed to a very considerable extent, aud I’hope that in a short time the country will see au enormous and satisfactory result flowing from the fact of Maori and European children receiving education in the'same school. In connection with this subject there is one' matter to which I must refer; I know it is a debateable point, ’ I refer, sir, to the failure bn the part of religious bodies to utilise the endowments that were given to them both by the Maori people themselves and by the Government. (Hear, hear.) This failure has been conspicuous throughout J the whole of the colony. Religions bodies have taken largo areas of land from the Maoris to educate the Maori children, and they have failed to utilise these lauds* or, if they have utilised them, it has been to their own use and benefit, and not
to the objects for which the endowments were originally made and intended. (Hear, hear.) I believe, therefore, that the time has come when the House should compel these religious bodies either to make use of the land for the purposes of the trust, or give them back, in order that they might be utilised. (Hear, hear.) There is one point, sir, upon which the House will be asked to legislate this year, and that is in regard to the formation of the jury list. (Hear, hear.) As the law now stands, of course the Governor can at once place every Maori having the qualification required by law upon the jury list, but I do not think myself that is a desirable thing to do, nor do I think the Maoris themselves would ask it; but I think we should make provision to the extent that in matters affecting themselves they should not only bo spectators of what goes on, but should also have some representation on the jury list. I will quote one special case, which shows the necessity for this. We had this murder case occurring at Waiapu recently, and the evidence taken before the runanga was so complete that at the magisterial investigation which followed they could not elicit a single additional fact before the magistrate. I have had a telegram from him, aud he informs me that the evidence taken before the runanga was of the most complete aud satisfactory character. This will show that the Maoris have a judicial turn of mind. It is only fair to them, I think, that in cases affecting themselves they should know they could be present, not merely as spectators, but to bear the evidence and give a verdict upon it. (Hear, hear.) There may be people, and I am sorry to say there are a few, who think that our Maori is a liar, a rogue, and a thief from the beginning. Ido not hold that doctrine, and I will say this much—that it is my firm conviction that if, instead of repressing the Maoris, we do everything in our power to make them feel on an equality with ourselves, it will result most advantageously to the whole country. (Hear, hear.) The proper course for us to adopt is to show them that they are on a level with ourselves, and that it is no fraud to call them British subjects. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the question of Maori representation, I said last night that I would state what the Government propose to do with reference to this question. It is one of a very difficult character, onc upon- which hon. members of this House entertain various opinions, and one upon which I believe the good government of this country depends for several years to come. (Hear, hear.) Many hon. members think there should be no special* representation. I say myself that the time is coming when it will not be required, but at the present time I believe it is a necessity. Other hon. members say to the Maoris, “We shall give you special representation, and that only, but you shall take no part in the election of European members to this House.” Iu the abstract, I believe that proposition to be true, but I want you to be bear this in mind ; Wo are on the eve now, I believe, of finishing up once and for ever all cause of seriaus trouble so far as tbe natives are concerned, aud I would not like it if, in the middle of these arrangements, aud while they arc pending between ourselves and the Maori people, anything was done which would have the effect of widening aiiy differences that it is necessary to settle as soon as possible. Therefore, in the matter of Maori representation, I should for the present le*ve it as it now is. I would propose to abolish the household andleasehold qualification, and withhold manhood suffrage, and give them only a freehold qualification, which they have now under the existing law. At present they can register under a leasehold, household, or freehold qualification ; but if we limit it to freehold only, and leave them their present number of members until next yearj* we shall be doing a wise thing, and for this reason : I believe that one of the outcomes of the'settlement of this great question will be that you will have added to the other branch of the Legislature" the benefit of the deliberations of one of the principal chiefs, perhaps the greatest chief, iu the Waikato; and I hope in this House also to have added .to its number one or two of their leading men. I should prefer, however, to have that left an open question for discussion between, onrselves and those chiefs when we return to Waikato, and I will, for these reasons, ask the House to go with me to that extent. It is impossible for this House to comprehend the question as fully as a person who is called upon to consider it from every point of view. Hon members must place in me their confidence in the administration of the department over which I preside, and I assure you that I believe that the fair settlement of this question will be an essential in the way of promoting good government amongst the Maori people. Sir, I come now to a debateable subject, namely, our negotiations with the King party, and on that subject the House will pardon mo if I refer to a speech which I made last session. I very seldom go back to Hansard either for myself or anybody else, but I will read to the House what I said last year ou this particular point. It is as follows I do not fora moment pretend to say that wo can, by going up there and by interviewing the King for a few hours, settle at once and for ever the King ditficulty. It is quite possible we might fail even at a long interview ; it might necessitate even further correspondence and negotiations. But I only claim this much for the Government: that we go there invited to go there ; that we go there with a certain amount of good rep itation in our favor; and that the people themselves are anxious to meet us, and are hopeful of a satisfactory settlement being come to. It may bo that the demands made by them will bo demands which we, regarding the interests of the colony, cannot afford to concede; and for my part 1 would.bo no party to a concession which would materially affect our interests, weaken the respect which we are entitled to in the eyes of the native people, or render to the natives residing in the King country more than they are entitled to as a matter of justice and fair play, I shall be glad if the result of our interview will be a settlement of this King difficulty, and, if it be. I shall be still further glad if within no distant time we shall havo present in this House as a member ofit some leading chief either of the "Waikato or the Ngatimaniopoto tribe.
That was the feeling which I had then, aud I may say, sir, that my anticipations have resulted infinitely better than I myself expected at the time. . Shortly after we came into office, this House was informed that a telegram had come from the Maori King inviting us to go and see him and his people. Honorable gentlemen in opposition had several theories about this telegram. Cue theory was that no such telegram had ever come; the second was that if it ever came, it did not come irom the proper person ; the third was that we would, not go aud meet the King ; and the fourth wa«, that even if we did go and see the Maori King, no good would come out of it. I am glad to say that in all these theories the hon. gentlemen of the Opposition have been wrong. The anticipations wo then held on the subject have been, more than realised. As a matter of fact, it was not one invitatiorf, or two invitations, or a dozen invitations, but for days after w© had come into office, and before going to the Waikato, we received telegrams of the most entreating character, supplicating us, in fact, to go into the district to meet the King and his people. One absolute result—(l am not saying of the change of Government) —that followed the accession of the present Government to office was the invitation of the King party to meet them, for the purpose of settling those questions which had remained iu abeyance for so many years, ever since those people went from \\h. Honorable members on the opposite side of the House may say what they like, and newspapers may say what they like also, but there is no doubt whatever that the accession to office of Sir George Grey led to those negotiations between ourselves and the King natives. I havo heard statements made with*regard to the influence which Sir G. Grey has amongst the Maori people. I believed mvself at one time that many of our friends built too much on that influence, but from what I now know I am prepared to say that but for hia coming into office there would have been no satisfactory settlement of the question, nor would the negotiations which were undertaken have been carried to' a successful issue. (Hear, hear.) The government of the Maori people is essentially a personal government. My hon. friend was to their mind for many years the Governor of this colon}'. Even after responsible institutions had como into force he was called Kawana Kerei ; and even after he had settled down into private life he was never thought of or spoken .of except as Kawana Kerei. I have heard gentlemen complain, and seen newspapers complain, that ho allowed the Maoris to address him as Kawana when he was not Governor, but I assure you that if ho stopped to correct them ho would be doing nothing else but calling* them to order at their various meetings. Wo had four meetings with the King people. The first one was held near Alexandra, which was to' arrange the business that, should bo discussed. The second meeting was at Hikurangi, when about 4000 or 5000 people were present, including the principal tribes then living estranged from us, aud several important, and influential chiefs. At that meeting certain proposals were made to the King party, which proposals are-in print and on the tatlo of this House, These proposals were chiefly received as a settlement of the question, and I have now an absolute h and positive assurance that so far as the King party is concerned they :are prepared to accept them, and up6n the basis
of those proposals- the question is now abso-: lately 'settled. At the Hikurangi meeting there was a marked absence of Rewi Mauio-' poto, the principal chief of the Mauiopofco tribe, and one of our staunchest opponents in the late war—a man whom the Premier justly described as a true and gallant soldier. Hon. members remember well the story of Orakau. This was the last battle of the war. After defending that pa for two days, and refusing several offers to surrender, Rewi, the brave leader of a forlorn hope, took his people right over the trenches where our men were at work, and escaped into the wood. We saw Rewi subsequently at Te Kuiti, and had an interview with him of a very satisfactory character, off the strength of which it was decided that we should meet him at Waitara. At that time we had people good enough to say that Rewi had no intention to meet us at Waitara, and that even if he did he would not accept our proposals. In refutation of that, I can only appeal to those who were present for iaforirution to the effect that the Waitara meeting was called at Rewi’s own instance, to invite a full and satisfactory settlement of the differences then existing between the two races. There has been a great deal of misrepresentation as to what took place at the Waitara meeting. It has been said that iu the eyes of the outside world a wrong was done to the colony, and that we lost strength in the eyes of the Moris themselves, but I can only say this much—l believe myself that the Waitara meeting was the keystone of tbe arch; at that meeting conclusions were come to which had a powerful effect throughout the whole length aud breadth of the island. As a proof -of the bona Jidcs of these negotiations, I have only to refer to the results that have ensued ; full proofs of the bona Jt des of these negotiations have since then been afforded in abuntlance, and all persons who are acquainted with the Maori mind know that these proofs are as true as Holy Writ. Coming back to the Hikurangi meeting, some person may remember that I brought with me from Hikurangi, right down from tbe heart of the Waikato to his grandfather’s tomb, and up to the northern side of the Waikato, the King’s son, who was to be named Tawhiao the Third. For the first time in his life he came into a European settlement; he travelled in a steamer for the first time, and on the railway for the first time, and not only did. he come and see those things for himself, but he gave me his assistance . in settling some questions between myself and theNgatirakawau tribe. Ever since these meetings took place, no important steps are taken amongst the Maoris themselves without first communicating with myself or the Premier. They wire and write to us, aud we advise them as of old, before the war in the Waikato drove them from our side. I could produce sheaves of letters aud telegrams received from the Maoris on various subjects, from sending a child to school up to the next meeting at Waitara. Every step w taken with the advice and concurrence of tbe Government. And we might contend on that ground alone that the neck of the question has been broken. The construction of the Raglan road- -a matter which would havebeen opposednot many months ago—is now going on, and upon it we are employing some of those very natives from whom but a few months ago there would have been considerable opposition to the work. I will go beyond that again, aud I would remind the House that some year’s ago some establishments at Kawhia Harbor were burnt down, and the harbor closed by the King natives against the Europeans. The people were expelled from the place, aud no Europeans dare go there. An old gentleman whose store was burnt down has gone back to reside there, aud I believe myself that the old gentleman to whom I am now referring has some intention of bringing down a Harbor Bill for Kawhia—(laughter)— because ht. has been at Raglan several times lately making inquiries about pilotage, harbor dues, ‘ wharf dues, &c., aud I shall not be surprised if he asks for a harbor board aud a large endowment. We shall malco no objection, except ask him to endow the harbor himself. (Laughter.) Then, again, as an evidence of this alteration of feeling ou the part of the Maoris, I will point out to you what has taken place ou the West Coast with regard to the steamer Hana Mokau. The Hana Mokau is a steamer which has been built to trade between New Plymouth, Waitara, Mokau, Kawhia, and Maunkau ; she is owned to some extent by Maoris, aud one of -the shareholders is Rewi himself ; and considering that lie is owner of the land and the leader of the people in that part of, the country, I don't think X can offer a better illustration of the change of feeling that has been created on the part of the natives. Now I come to even a more significant fact, as show-, ing the complete establishment of harmonious relations between om-selves and tbe Maoris ; when I say complete establishment I don’t include certain details such as railways, &c., about which negotiations havo yet to take place. Tbe House will remember that shortly after the session was opened it was determined to undertake the survey of the Waimate Plains. Representations were made to Rewi, asking him to use bis influence and step in with a view that the survey should not be stopped. He telegraphed that be entirely approved of 'the survey being made. The House will remember that these were lauds taken in rebellion. You will observe what a change has come over the mind of tliis great man. Other evidence of the result of this meeting, I contend, is furnished by this undeniable fact, that the spirit of law and order has spread over the whole of this island. I will prove that by taking up the time of .the House only to such an extent as is necessary to establish ray proposition. I will take, first of all, the Native Land Court at Maketu. There, for three years in succession, although the ■ Government had thousands and thousands of acres of land awaiting investigation, they had been compelled to postpone the sitting of the Court. Ministers had gone down over and over again. Large sums of money were spent, but all to no purpose. There were two large bodies of armed natives at variance with each other. I was pressed to go down there for two months, but I declined, because I did not wish to create an impression on the mind of the Maoris that the Native Minister was there, to influence the decision of the Court. But when I found that the Court which had been appointed to sit was being stopped, I went down, and iu a few days I was successful in having the Court held, and removing the arms from the contending parties. I will take the case of Turakino. There for years past the Government were unable to make a line of telegraph or a line of road, and every attempt that was made to erect the telegraph, or construct the road, was interrupted. The bridges were torn up and the timber" burnt, but since we have como into ofhee that state of things has practically ceased. In the course of. a few days; in fact, before the debate on the Bill I intend to bring down is over, we shall havo obtained the concession to make the road and establish a line of telegraph there. (Hear*, hear) I will tike the case of this land on the West Coast now under survey for the purposes of settlement. If there be one thing more than another I am entitled to say to hon. members on the opposite side of the House, it is that there has been a want of generous admission of our policy during the recess. (Hear, hear.) Our acts are, of course, open to fair criticism, but no fair dealing man will be prepared to deny the fact that we have made substantial progress upon the West Coast of this islarid. Wo have acquired, and are acquiring, large areas of confiscated land, and are maintaining law and order aud vindicating the law. In the case of the Waimate Plains, when X was in that part of the country I was met by a large body of Maoris, who told me the old story—“ You must not survey Waitotara, because if you do there will be trouble,” meaning thereby disturbances and possibly a breach of tbe peace. My answer was, “ Here is Major Brown, Civil Commissioner. I havo given him instructions to survey. If there bo any trouble it will fall ou you ; if you commit a breach of the peace we shall take the necessary steps’to prevent a repetition.” The leader of’ that party was a person who came down last session with a petition, and the House, having pity on his petition, awarded him 1500 acres of land. I said to him, “ Very well, if you .oppose our survey, I shall reconsider the propriety of giving you a grant of 1500 acres.” What was tho result ? When they came to survey the block, they found ho had gone to Wanganui to play billiards. (Laughter.) The Waimate Plains was an entirely different thing, The land had been unclaimed by, the Government for years, aud was occupied by Titokowaru and his people, who were in rebellion, and could not bo said down to the present time to have come in. I was warned on every side nob to attempt to prosecute that survey, and told that if I did, it would end iu a breach of the peace. In connection with this part of the subject I think that I must pass a well-deserved compliment to a gentleman on the West Coast, who has assisted f very materially in bringing about the present satisfactory result with regard to these plains. /The advice and suggestions ho has given to me l-found I could rely on*, and had it not been for the fact that he was with mo in the determination to survey
the Waimate Plains, I don’t belieVo the work could have been carried out. T believe in giving honor where honor is due, and I think a large lot of honor is due to Major Brown, Civil Commissioner. (Hear, hear.) Even today I saw a letter received from the Waikato, in which the writer tells the person he writes to that he looked forward with tbe gravest apprehension to a breach of the-peace, and on the day he set down to write he obtained the papers from the South stating that the survey was going on without opposition. Here is another case. In this very country, further into the heart of the • unsettled country, we had a series of robberies committed by Maoris. These people fled in the direction of Te Whiti, and they offered him a share of the plunder—a largo quantity of watches and tobacco. I believe. He honorably refused to accept it, and warned them to leave the settlement, telling them that if they had recourse to such acts they must look after themselves. The police went after them ; they were brought back, and the case against them came on a few days ago, and was dismissed for want, of evidence. The Maoris see by this that they will get fair,, play and a fair hearing, and that they will not be condemned because they are Maoris. I now come to the question of land purchases. As I have said before, when we came into office we fouu‘l them in a very sickly condition indeed. What with the indecision of the late Government, the opposition of private purchasers, and the desire of the Maori people to escape from the completion of their obligations, it appeared extremely likely as if we should have to forfeit tbo greater part of our parch-ses. For instance, I found that : there were something like thirty blocks of land under negotiation, and of these thirty bub one bad been brought before the Court. There were deeds signed for the other swenty-nine, but no instructions given to secure to them the force of law. As a matter of fact there was no title iu some cases, and in others large sums of money bad been paid before the land went through the Court. The Courts were kept back, and in some cases the negotiations had extended over five years, and still the lauds were not closed. Since we have been in office, eight months .ago, we have had hard at work the courts at .Maketu, Matata, Tauranga, and the Thames, and large blocks have passed through, and we are now in a position to save what vyould have been a large loss on the part of the colony. So hard have the judges been bept at Jwork, that when I applied to the Chief Judge, Mr. Fenton, for a return of the laud passed through life declined to furnish it, saying I had kept his judges travelling about so much that it was quite impossible to give me the information. That is the case I believe, and the return before the House is merely an approximation. However, up to the 30th July last, that is iu six months, double the amount of the land passed through .in the previous year had been passed through the Court, and if 1 could state the amount passed through up to the end of September, I believe it would be found to bo three times the quantity put through in the previous year, aud the greater portion has been secured for the Government. (Applause.) I propose to ask the House to .increase the number of Judges,{not as permanent officers, but for the special purpose of working up the arrears which now exist. The quantity of arrears is still something enormous. I find even now that the reserved claims number 402, and that the claims adjourned number 860, An enormous amount of work has been lying over for years, - and before the new Native Lands Bill becomes law I wish to have all these arrears cleared off, and a fresh start made under that Act. Thus the proposal to increase the number of judges. There is no doubt, as I have said, that the opposition offered by private. people has been a great barrier hot only to the present Government but to past Governments. I do not mean persons whose transactions commenced before the Government would have closed if they had not been interfered with by the Government, but persons who deliberately cam£ between the native owners and the Government and tried to defeat the Government. We have been saved by the Act of last session—tho Act under which we have proclaimed large blocks as under negotiation by tbe Crown, the effect of such proclamation being that there could be no lease, sale, or mortgage to private persona. That circumstance saved us, and we are now iu a position not merely to save ourselves from being driven out of the field, but to dictate terms to our opponents. There is one feature of our laud transactions to which I propose especially to call the attention of the House, and that is what is termed our leasehold transactions. We have a large tract of country under negotiation for lease for a term of 21 years. I propose to ask the House to allow me to take one of two courses, either to acquire the land in freehold or to abandon the business altogether. (Hear, hear.) What is the value to the Government of a 21 years’ lease ? What pi ivate person will take the land for the remainder of the term of the Government lease, say 17 or 18 years? If we can acquire the freehold well and good. It is the object of all to acquire the freehold, and when that can be done *no one will take this land from us, especially as most of it is of an inferior quality. That is what I shall ask tho House to do therefore. (Mr. Murray : Hear, hear.) [After a reference to a block of land in Auckland iu some way connected with tho murder of Sullivan, but which was not caught iu the gallery, the hon. gentleman proceeded.] Last year instructions were given to the officers iu my department that in future they should nob assist in trafficing in native lands, either for themselves or their friends. That instruction has been carried out to the • letter and the spirit; and in consequence of what has been occurring daring this past month or two I have obtained the consent of my colleagues to extend that instruction to all persons who are classified officers in any department. (Hear, hear.) I will now show the House the present position of the laud purchases and the results of tho expenditure of our money : Total authorised expenditure for land purchase purposes £700,000 Total expenditure to Ist July, 1878 .. .. 581,081 Balance .. £118,918 Acres. Total area of land purchased to Ist July, 1878 (deeds registered) 2,011,890 Total purchases completed during the year 1877-78 .. .. 59,089 Area ofland proclaimed waste lands'of the Crown during 1877-78 .. 428,003 Total area of laud proclaimed waste lands of the Crown, purchased under Immigration and Public Works Act, since 1872: Acres. Auckland .. ... 710,651 Wellington 334,182 Hawke’s Bay 83,500 Taranaki .. 181,883 Total 1,310,237 I expect we shall have completed in another year half a million acres more. I now como to a return of a much more important character. That is a return showing the number of blocks of land with estimated area at present under negotiation of purchase by the Government, with amount paid on purchase account aud estimate of suras required to complete the same. Xu Auckland there are 173 blocks which are incompletely purchased, the acreage 2,083,129, the amount paid £154,360, amount pay £279,720. Hawke’s Bay: 1 block, area 19,641 acres, amount paid £2526, to pay £l4ol. Wellington : 40 blocks, area 728,586, amount paid £18,237, to pay £163,909. Taranaki: 9 blocks, area 342,630, amount paid '£11,069, to pay £73,988. On the present estimates my colleagues havo been good enough to give me £150,000 towards the £519,000 there is to pay on incomplete purchases; but in addition to the £519,000 I shall require more money if the leasehold laud is to be purchased and other purchases which are desirable made. I think the House should have been informed of these matters in previous years, of the regulations entered into, the money paid, and the money required. Of course with regard to some of these lands the Government will I think ho able to withdraw \Vith advantage after making terms with the Maori owners or private purchasers—either we shall take our money back with interest or get the land or its equivalent. As to laud in Taranaki, I shall endeavor in every possible way to complete the transactions, because I think those lauds ought to be iu the bands of the public, and should not be taken from us as it were by force of arms by any one. (Hear, hear.) I may add the return does not include several blocks'of land on the West Coast of this island. When I addressed the House last year on this particular question I expressed myself iu favor of withdrawing totally • from tho purchase of native lands. I have modified that opinion to some extent. I think looking at the important interests concerned, and looking at the effect our withdrawal would have upon the * opening of tho country, we must make ah exception in tho case of the West Coast, and wo are determined to clear the line between Wanganui and Waikato and furnish the intermediate districts with a substantial laud revenue, to bear part of tho expense of tho great trunk line. The Lakes District is under proclamation by tho Crown, and we. intend to acquire tflo freehold, and on no account to allow those wonders of nature to fall into the the hands of private people, so that they shall be open to the whole of tho public—to tho whole of the civilised world—for the purposes of
benefiting health and for the purpose of recreation. I'believe we shall be able to acquire a -sufficient area to provide the accommodation (hat tourists require. (Hear, hear.), How, with regard to the money which will be required to meet this purchase, my own theory is that I believe there is no occasion whatever for going to the loarr market to borrow this money ; X think we might [fairly call on the land revenue of the colony to contribute its share for the purpose of completing the title to this land—(hear, hear) —and therefore I hope the House will allow us year by year such an amount as we shall be able to spend during'that year in completing unfinished titles. (Hear, hear.) One statement which I ‘ can make is certain to interest members from the North, and especially the representatives of the Thames. There is an old proverb to the • effect that “it is an ill wind blows no one good,” and lately a native has died there, who was opposed to the opening of Ohinemuri. The result of his death is that his people are offering the freehold of the Ohinemuri goldfields to the Government, and I hope in the course of a few clays to be able to acquire the whole of that district. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I will say a few words • about the department to which I belong. When I came into office, and took the charge of that department, there were two classes of people in this House: there was one class who feared that my first act would be to dismiss all my officers, and the second class hoped that I would do away with them. There have been removals to which I shall presently refer, but on the whole it will be seen that there has been no attempt at turning the department upside down, or depriving men of office simply because they were in office when we came into power. (Hear, hear.) I find on the order paper a notice of motion by the hon. member for Wanganui, which refers to certain officers who appear to him to have been dismissed, and gives their names. I shall not refer to that question now, but when the resolution comes on I shall ask the House to stand by me, and not grant a committee of the kind. In the Native Department especially it is a matter of personal government ; if you cannot move your men dismiss them. The Maoris look to you to do it, and if I had removed an officer, and were subjected to a vote of centure, although the House might not tell me so, the Maoris wonld tell me my services were no longer necessary. Besides, there must be that distinction in native matters. Whatever it may be in the Post Office Department, the Telegraph, or any other department of the Public Service, in the Native Office you must know your men, and be able to depend on them thoroughly. (Hear, hear.) A man may toe the red tape in all departmental matters, and yet by a want of zeal, enthusiasm, and interest, he lands you and the Government in a difficulty, and therefore the changes I have made have been solely in the public interest. For meu I have no personal feeling. My friends say to me I am deficient of “ nouse.” I simply come to conclusions after finding out that I can get better men to do the work, and I intend to do so. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I shall now say a few words in regard to the Native Lands Bill, which I shall bring before the House shortly. This subject is of more interest than what I have already said, because no doubt a large number of people are anxious to acquire Maori territory, finding that land has risen so in value that the price in the South has shut out all except men of extraordinary means from purchasing, and there is now something like a goldfields rush, if I may so term it, on the lands of the North. Therefore, those persons in the country will be anxious to hear how the Government propose to deal with that question of the acquisition of large areas of land, I only refer to that oue particular matter on the present occassion, reserving other information as to the Bill itself until the motion for. second reading. Now, sir, the Bill of last session, which the hon. member for Waikato introduced, was, as most of his. measures are, an exceedingly cleardrawn Bill —a well drafted Bill; but it was open to the objection—which was raised, and bn which it was withdrawn—that it provided for the sale of Maori land only, without making > a fair concession to small capatalists. Several propositions offered themselves to me for consideration. The first was to raise the amount of duty payable upon native lands. It did not require much consideration to dismiss that idea, and for this very good reason that whatever extra duty you would put on would bo paid, not by the purchaser, but by the native vendor, and therefore you would be acting unfairly with the aboriginal owner. The second proposition I thought of was that we should not allow a block larger than 1000 acres to go to auy one person, and that each person's title should be individualised aud his share ascertained and cutoff, thereby providing an opening for small capitalists to go in aud purchase. The objections to that proposition are that it would entail increased expenses of survey on the native vendor. I felt that any proposal on this subject must be oue that would deal fairly with the native people. It must euablo them to exercise a fair discretion in the sale of their land without imposing taxation, and the proposal I intend to submit will do* that. We intend to restrict our laud purchase operations, and we intend to meet the difficulty in this way : We shall require, before any title is declared to be complete, that it should pass through the ordeal of an Order in Council, and a certain number of months after this the title is complete; we shall reserve to ourselves the right either to take the whole •block, paying purchase money, interest, and expenses ; secondly, to take a part of it if necessary on the same terms ; or thirdly, to make it a conditional rectification that a certain portion shall be cut up in small allotments for the purposes of settlement. These are some of the proposals we shall make. Now, a very few words indeed with regard to the Middle Island. The Middle Island native people have not been a source,of trouble to this or any previous Government. I have been able to visit them, and to remove a number of disputes which they had. We have agreed to give them a commission to inquire into what are, if any, the unfulfilled promises made to them with relation to lands in the South Island. I. think there are some unfulfilled promises, and I think the House will agree with me in proposing to settle the question finally and for ever. (Hear,’ hear.) Sir, before concluding I should like to be allowed to say a very few words iu regard to ourselves. It was said to me when I came into office as Native Minister that I was the preacher of the doctrine of repudiation ; that the hopes of the Maori people would be raised ; that there would be nothing but repudiations and objections to survey, and that the Government would be called upon to adopt a philo-Maori policy. They expected that the fat would be iu the fire before the session was over. I hope the gentlemen who said that, will at least admit that their statements have not been borne out by facts ; that I have not been the apostle of repudiation, and that I have kept my word—that when I censed to be au advocate I would become their judge,—and' that I have been such in respect of Maori matters. (Hear, hear.) Of course, sir, the opening up of this island, and the settlement of the notivo question will depend very much ou the result of the negotiations now pending. As fixed at present, the whole of the natives concerned will assemble either at Waikato or Waitara in four mouths from the present time, and there will be settled tho conditions on which we are to receive them back, and upon which the Maoris are to abide by the ordinary laws of the land. That the result of that meeting will be satisfactory I have the utmost confidence myself, for the reasons I have given to the House. It only remains for this House to assist the Government iu the important work they have undertaken. It is not, X contend, a party question at all. (Hear, hear.) It is a matter of life and death to all of us, and both jpides of tho House should therefore assist any Government that grapples with this question, and tries to bring it to a successful issue. (Hear, hear.) I believe we can look forward this year as, last, to the fulfilment of tho prophecy I made last year, that there would be no disturbance of tho peace, I regard this as ended, and consider that the time for disturbances has gone by altogether. You may possibly have acts of violence, such as happen iu European communities. Everything like au armed resistance to the law has become altogether a thing of the past. You will have, as I hope, a number of difficulties removed that are now in course of removal. You will have submitted to you for approval a fair and liberal policy which will lead to a better frame of. mind on the part of tho natives, and the proposal I make with regard to education will convince them that this House does not look upon them as people who ought not to staud on anjequal footing in the country. Tho measures which WO/ intend to introduce willj I am sure, convince tho natives'that their-interests aro being conserved, aud they will have ample evidence of the fact that there is a real desire on tho part of this House to preserve, if possible, a race for which I and all of us must have the highest possible admiration ; that we ■ * are raising them in the social scale, and that it- is not mere talk, but . that it is our fixed determination to make large concessions for the purpose of gradually lifting them .above their present
level, and fulfilling the promise which the early colonists made to them when . they earn*? here. After apologising for having trouble. I the House so long, and recommending that the debate on native affairs should he postponed till hou. members hod considered the proposals of the Government, Mr. bheehau resumed his seat amid applause. ELECTORAL BILL. I On the motion of the Attorney-General the House went into committee on the Electoral Bill at 10 30 p.m. Clause 23 was passed. Clause 24,—Mr. Saunders proposed an amendment, under which a member elected for two constituencies should decide which he would retain within fourteen days instead of twenty-eight, as proposed in the clause. The amendment was lost. Clause 24 was amended so as to read after words “him,” in 58th line, all the rest of the clause to be struck out, so as to allow the insertion of the words “ unless the seat be duly claimed by some person ; provided further that if no such choice be made the returns of the seats for which he has been elected shall be deemed void.” Clauses 25, 26, and 27 were passed. On clause 23 a division was taken on the question of striking out the words “ except person,” with a view to insert the word “ not.” On the question being put that the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the Bill, the ayes were 42 ; noes, 5. Clause 28 was amended by the insertion of the words “ entitled to be registered as voters” instead of the words “ entitled to vote.” Claus© 29 was amended so as to read “ that he was not previously claimed to be,” Clauses 30 and 31 were carried. Clause 32.—After the words “ lodged with” the words “ or forwarded to ” were added. Clause 33 was passed. On the motion of Mr. Wakefield to report progress, the ayes were 19, and the noes 24. Clauses 34, 35, and 36 were carried without amendment. Clause 37 was amended by the addition of the words “ but such names as appear to he on the electoral roll then in force, and not objected to, shall not be again placed thereon.” On the motion of. Mr. Wakefield, progress was reported, and leave was given to sit again to-morrow. The House adjourned at 1.40 a,m.
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New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5453, 18 September 1878, Page 2
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13,657PARLIAMENT. New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5453, 18 September 1878, Page 2
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