PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXIII, Issue 5424, 15 August 1878, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, August 14. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at,the usual hour. Several returns were laid on the table by Colonel Whitmore. NEW BILL. The Executive Councillor Act, 1878, was introduced and read a first time. DESPATCHES PROM EARL BEACONS FIELD. The Hon, Captain FRASER asked the Colonial Secretary whether the Governor had received any communication fioin Lord Beaconsfield ? The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE : There has been a reply and some little correspondence, which is n uv in the hands of the j.viuter, and if his Excellency permits it will be laid on the table. HARBOR BILL. The Hon. Colonel WHITMORE moved the second reading of this measure, and explained its provisions. He concluded by stating that it was time that a system of harmony should be introduced into the management of harbors. —Colonel Whitmore was followed by the Hous. Mr. Holmes, Captain Fraser, and Mr. Hall, who hoped that time would be allowed to Harbor Boards to make suggestions before the Bill was passed. The second reading was ultimately agreed to, after Colonel Whitmore had stated that the measure was principally founded on suggestions from harbor boards. The Bill was ordered to be committed on Friday week. IN COMMITTEE. The Trade Union Bill was committed, and shortly reported. The Literary Institutions and Public Libraries Bill was considered, reported with amendments, and the third reading fixed for the following day. Some progress was made with the Reprint of Statutes Bill, when progress was reported, and The Council adjourned at 5 p.m. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, August 14. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Messrs. McLean, Hodgkinson, Barton, Ormond, J. E. Brown, Hatnliu, and Taiaroa. NOTICES OF MOTION. Several notices of motion were given. PETITIONS CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE. Mr. BARFF brought up two reports of this committee, which were received and ordered to lie on the table. NATIVE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE. Mr. BRYCE brought up a report of the Native Affairs Committee, which was received and ordered to lie on the table. WASTE LANDS COMMITTEE. Mr. CURTIS brought up five reports of the Waste Lands Committee, which were read and ordered to lie on the table. PAPERS. Papers and returns were laid on the table by the Hon, Mr, Stout and the Hon. Mr. Macandrew. ONEHUNGA WHARF. Mr. O’RORKE asked the Minister for Public Works, —1. Whether it is true that the depth of water at the eud of the new wharf in Onehunga is less than at the old one ? 2. Whether borings were taken before the site was fixed on, to ascertain whether the piles could be driven the specified length ? 3, Whether the Harbor-master was consulted upon the suitability of the site ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that the Government had sent to Auckland for information on the subject. No reply had yet been received, but as soon as the required information came to hand the question of the hou, member would be replied to. MANGAHOE INLET. The following question, in Mr. Taiaroa’s name, was postponed till Friday next : —lf the Government intend to introduce a Bill to enable the title to the Mangahoe Inlet to be determined ? RAILWAY EMPLOYES. Mr. STEVENS asked the Minister for Public Works, —Whether the Government propose to make any provision to meet the case of persons employed on the railways who may suffer injury in the execution of their duty ? The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that tbs Government did not at present intend to make aay alteration in the system that now prevailed, namely, that of giving six months’ pay to a widow in case of death. NEW ZEALAND GAZETTE. Mr. SEATON asked the Government, —If they intend to give effect to the promise made last session by the late Premier that road boards would be supplied with the New Zealand, Gazette free of expense ? The Hon. Mr. BALLANCB replied that road boards and municipalities would be supplied with the Gazette free of charge, (Hear, hear.) LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr. ROLLESTON asked the Government, —Whether they intend to lay before this House any reports upon the present condition of the lunatic asylums of the colony ; and if so, when ! The Hon. Mr. RALLANOE replied that an exhaustive report on the subject was in course of preparation, and would be laid on the table in a few days.

RIVER TAirO. Mr. GEORGE asked the Minister for Public Works, —If it is the intention of the Government to construct a bridge over the River Taipo, on the road between Christchurch and Hokitika, such bridge having been contemplated by a previous Government ? The Hon. Mr. MAGAHD EE W replied that it was not the intention of the Government to construct this bridge, and their reasons for not doing so would appear in the Public Works Statement. THORNDON RECLAIMED LAND. The Hon. Mr. EIGHARDSON asked the Minister for Public Works, —If he will lay before this House at an early date a plan of the Thorndou reclaimed land, showing the situation of the several portions proposed to be reserved by the Government, the purposes for which such reserves are made, the area of such reserves, and the area of the laud proposed to be sold to the Corporation of Wellington ? The Hon. Mr. JIAO ANDREW replied that the Government had no objection to lay the plan on the table. MESSES. BROGDEN’s CLAIMS. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON asked the Minister for Public Works, —-Whether the claims of the Messrs. Brogdeu in connection with their several railway contracts have been setted; and, if not, whether it is true that the Messrs. Brogdeu have informed the present Government, as they stated in a letter to the Wellington Evening Post of the 2nd April last, that they were not a,ware of the passing of the Government Contractor's Arbitration Act, 1872 ? Also whether any steps have been taken to bring about a settlement of these claims ; and when it is expected that they will be finally settled ? The Hon. Mr. MAOANDREW replied, with regard to the first question, that the claims had not been settled. As regarded the second, full particulars were embodied in the papers which he had that day laid on the table. Steps had been taken to obtain all possible information in case the matter should be referred to a Court of Law. Messrs. Brogden, he imagined, had got their remedy before a legal tribunal. CONSTABULARY BILL. Mr. SHARP asked the Government, — Whether it is their intention to introduce a Constabulary Bill ; and if so, when ? The Hon. Mr. BALL ANG E replied that it was not the intention of the Government to introduce such a Bill this session. CLAIMS OP JOSHUA GOODFELLOW. Mr. MURRAY asked the Government,— If they will cause a sum to be placed on the Supplementary Estimates to give effect to the report of the select committee appointed to report upon the claims of Joshua Goodfellow - The Hon. Mr. MACANDREW replied that the amount recommended by the committee would be placed on the Estimates. HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS, Mr. STEVENS asked the Premier,— Whether the Government will, this session, introduce a measure providing for the control and management of hospitals and other charitable institutions and charitable aid throughout the colony ; and, it so, when ? The lion. Mr. BALLANOE said the Government had the matter in contemplation, and it the hou. member would renew his question in a week’s time, the Government would state whether the matter would bo dealt with in the Financial Arrangements Bill which they intended to introduce, or by a special measure. MILTON HARBOR BILL. On the motion of Mr. Curtis the report on this Bill was referred back to the Waste Lands Committee. DECEASED WIFE’S SISTER MARRIAGE BILL. Dr. HODGKINSON moved for leave to introduce this Bill. (Loud erica of “ Hear, hear.”)

Leave was given. The Bill was brought in, read a first time, ordered to be printed, and the second reading fixed for that day fortnight. THE ADMINISTRATION BILL. On the motion of the Hou. Mr, STOUT leave was given to introduce this Bill, which was read a first time. GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS. The Hon. Mr. FOX moved, —For a return showing what Government buildings have been insured against fire during the year 1878 ; showing the amount for which insured in each case, the estimated value of the building, what office insured in, the rate of premium per cent., aud whether by public tender or private arrangement. The motion was agreed to. GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING. The Hon. Mr. FOX moved, —For a return of all advertisements published by the Government during the year terminating Ist July, 1878, inviting tenders from publishers of newspapers for the insertion of Government advertisements and notices ; of all tenders sent in reply to such advertisements, aud giving the rates tendered ; and showing any tenders, and their rates, not accepted. Also, a return of all insertions of advertisements or notices in any newspaper by authority of any Government officer, without tenders having been publicly invited. The , hon, member said that when he was in office in 1872 a suspicion was expressed that the Government were in the habit of giving advertisements to such newspapers as were favorable to the Government. His then colleague (the hon. member for Totara) said he would lay a return on the table which would show that no favor had been shown in the matter by the Government. That return was laid on the table, and it was of such a satisfactory nature that the member who moved for it did not proceed further in the matter. He would be most unwilling to assert that the Press would sell its type aud its principles for the sake of obtaining a few advertisements from, the Government. But the charge (which was not of his making) was made against the Press, or a portion of it, that it was corrupted by the present Government, and the complaints were very loud on the subject. He would have it clearly understood that the charge was nob one of his making, and he would be glad to hear that the practice of the previous Government in this matter had not been departed from. It was the custom of the previous Government to give its advertisements to such papers only as had the best circulation, distinguishing between morning and evening newspapers, and getting the best possible service rendered for the smallest amount of expenditure. It was now stated that the present Government shoved great partiality in the matter of advertising, and that some portions of the Press were therefore corrupted. The whole aspect of affairs seemed to have changed. What made the blow more severe to the nonfavored newspapers was the fact, as alleged, that those papers which were favored were partly owned by Ministers themselves. If this were so, it was a decideoly undesirable state of things. It was not right of course that members of the Government should exercise the patronage they possessed for the purpose of benefiting themselves ; such a thing was contrary to the provisions of the Disqualification Act. It was stated that five or six members of that House were personally interested in a newly-establiahed paper in Wellington called the New Zealander . One of these was an honorable member who if not actually in the Government Mr. GEORGE : I rise to a point of order. The SPEAKER ruled that Mr. Fox was perfectly in order. The Hon. Mr. FOX said he was aware that he had not said anything to require his being called to order, but he had sat down to await the Speaker’s ruling. Perhaps when such a young member as the hon. member (Mr. George) was a little longer in the House, he would not be so ready at jumping up to points of order, when there were really no points of order to be discussed. He (Mr. Fox) found it stated that the following shareholders were amongst the proprietors of the New Zealander \ —Mr. Sheehan (Native Minister), 50shares; Colonel Whitmore (Colonial Secretary), 50 shares; Mr. Larnach, formerly a member of and now an officer of the Government, 50 shares; the Attorney-General, 60 shares; the PostmasterGeneral, 20 shares; and the hon. member (Mr, George), 150 shares. It was asserted that the Government had distributed their advertising favors entirely amongst those newspapers which supported them, and[in the case of the newspapers of Wellington they had ceased sending advertisements to the oldest paper, and gave them to that newspaper in which they had a personal interest. [The hon. member read an article from the Christchurch Press on the subject of Government advertising]. There were other articles in other papers, couched in much more strenuous language. There were other papers which had not kept their tempers so well as the Prcss t but had couched their feelings in very strong language. He did not think it was necessary for him to refer to the matter further on this occasion, but would content himself with moving the resolution standing in his name. The Hon. Mr. STOUT said the Government would not have the slightest objection to lay this return on the table, and he thought the hon. member for Wanganui ought to have postponed his remarks until that return had been laid before the House. He begged to stale that the observations made by the hon. member with reference to the Government showing any favoritism, in this matter were without foundation. He (Mr. Stout) did own 50 shares in the Hcio Zealander , but he had since disposed of them. He had shares in other newspapers, which be would name if the hon, member for Wauganui wished him to do so. He was editor of a paper in the South at one time, and although an offer was made to insert the land transfer advertisements for nothing, even then the Government would not give their advertisements. With regard to the Wellington papers, all the land transfer advertisements were inserted in the New Zealand Times, while those from the Public Works Department were inserted in the New Zealander ; and in Dunedin, also, it was a fact that the land transfer advertisements were sent to the only opposition paper in that city, the Evening Star. The fact of the whole matter was, that the cost of advertising throughout the colony was very large, aud the Government felt it to be their duty to reduce the expenditure under this head as far as possible ; but he denied that the Government had been guilty of any partiality in the matter. The return asked for would be prepared and laid on the table as soon as possible. Mr. JOYCE said it appeared to him that in the matter of advertising the Government had followed the example laid down since first party Government was introduced into the colony. The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE said he thought that all respectable newspapers should get a fair share of the Government advertising at the lowest possible rates. Mr. SUTTON said the late Ministry were in the habit of calling for tenders and publishing those that were accepted aud those that were not. He was informed that this practice had been departed from by the present Government ; and that in the case of the Napier newspapers, the lowest tender for advertising was not accepted. He was further informed that in the case of one of the Napier newspapers an advertisement was sent to it by the Supreme Court officials, and when application for payment was made to the Government in Wellington they positively refused to pay. Mr. WAKEFIELD said the true object of advertising was to ensure that the advertisements were brought under the notice of moat of those who were interested in reading them, (Hear, hear.) He refused to believe that any respectable newspapers in the colony were to be bought by a few Government advertisements ; and he also refused to believe that those respectable newpapers which now received Government advertisements gave their support to the Government on that account alone. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe in a system of calling tenders for advertising. It was a well known fact that newspapers had an objection to cutting each other’s throats ; and, therefore, he thought that they should all get a fair share of whatever was going in the way of advertisements. It was anything but true economy to cut Jdown the advertising, or to publish advertisements in only one newspaper where another existed. (Hear, hear.) Mr. McLEAN said that if anybody took up a file of the Thnarn Herald, he would see that it contained a good many Government advertisements.

Mr. WAKEFIELD rose to order. The lion, member evidently made a reference to him (Mr. Wake Hold), but ho had no right to do so, as he was not aware that he had any interest in the Timaru Herald. Mr. MoLE AN said that in this matter of advertising the present Government ought to have followed in the footsteps of the late Ministry. Instead of doing this, what did the present Government do 1 In the case of the Dunedin newspapers, they actually gave 4s an inch to the Times, when they • could have been better served by the Morning Herald at one shilling an inch, and the

Evening Star, with a larger circulation than either, was entirely shut out. Besides this, the Government were paying the Times £l2O a year for what was previously done for £BO a year, and this was said to be under an arrangement made between the Times people and the Hon. the Minister for Public Works. The charge of 4s. an inch was higher than that charged to auctioneers for advertisements in the same columns, lie contended that Government advertisements should cost less than auctioneers’ advertisements, or advertisements which were inserted in the same columns by the local bodies. The City Council, and other local bodies, got their advertisements inserted in the Otago Daily Times for one shilling an inch, while the Government advertisements were charged for at the rato of four shillings an inch. Those members of the City Council who advocated the advertisements being inserted only in the Otago Daily Times —a paper of limited circulation—now declared that tenders were not received for works which were advertised, and they desire to see an alteration made. (“Name”) Mr. Pish was one of those who asserted that tenders were not received in consequence of the City Council advertising only in the Daily Times. The Hon. Mr. STOUT said it was untrue that tenders were not received by the City Council. Mr. McLEAN said he would only refer the Hou. the Attorney-General to the reports in the newspaper itself. The hon. member continued to say that he would refer to the matter again, hi all probability, after he had an opportunity of seeing the returns which were moved for by the hon. member for Wanganui. [Before concluding, the hon. member for Waikouaitimade some remarks which were not audible in the reporters’ gallery with reference to a cottage and 250,000 acres at Tanpo. At this stage, Mr. George rose to a point of order. Sir George Grev rose subsequently, and said that what [the hou. member (Mr. McLean) referred to was a foul slander, and he knew it was a foul slander when he referred to it.] The Hon. Mr. FISHER said he did not consider that the hou. member for Waikouaiti had any right whatever to refer to his (Mr. Pisher’s) private business. If tbe hon. member for Waikouaiti chose to purchase shares in a brewery ho (Mr. Fisher) thought he would be guilty of a gross impertinence—he (Mr. Pisber) would consider himself guilty of an impertinence if he referred to the private business of the hou, member for Waikouaiti. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BARTON expressed a strong hope that that the system of subsidising newspapers for the purpose of obtaining their political support would be discontinued. He should like to see the newspapers of the colony stick to the respective parties in that House, and not allow themselves to give their support to any and every Government with the sole object of getting whatever advertisements were going. If newspapers supported parries on account of their political opinions only, and worked to get that party into power and to keep the other party out, it would be a more satisfactory state of things than that which now prevailed. He should like to see parties clearly defined and supported by the Press, on account of their policy and principles only, and nob ou account of any favors they might receive in the way of advertisements. Mr. THOMSON advocated a return to tbe old system of provincial gazettes as a means of advertising. After Messrs. Turnbull, Barff, Bowen, Rees, Moss, and Peldwick had addressed the House, the debate was interrupted by the dinner adjournment. IMMIGRATION. The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE said he would save time by withdrawing the following motion standing in his name, as the Hon. the Minister for Lands stated that the information sought for would be supplied in the papers laid on the table :—That a return be laid before this House of the colonial expenditure for the last eight financial years on free immigration, assisted immigration, and nominated immigration respectively ; also showing the amount of arrears (if any) due to the Government on tbe 30th day of June last on account of assisted immigration and nominated immigration, and the dates on which such arrears became due. PARNELL RESERVE BILL. Mr. MOSS, in moving the second reading of this Bill, explained that its object was to grant the corporation of Parnell a triangular piece of land at the approach to the suburb. Parnell contained a population of 8000, and was without any endowments; and this piece of land was the only suitable site that could be obtained within easy distance for the prirpoae of erecting a town hall upon it. The Hon. Mr. GISBORNE opposed the diversion of this endowment from the purpose for which it was originally made, namely, as an endowment for a lunatic asylum. Mr. ROWE said he would oppose the diversion of this endowment unless good and sufficient reasons were shown for its diversion. The Hon. Mr. STOUT said there would be no harm in making the proposed diversion, as the piece of land had never been used, and no income was derived from it. Mr. O’RORKE said the Hon. the AttorneyGeneral had anticipated what he intended to say on the subject. With the exception of this small piece of land, there was not another piece within the borough that could be granted to this important suburb as an endowment. He only regretted that the, BUI did not propose to make it an endowment for a school instead of for general purposes. Mr. DIGNAN objected to the proposed diversion, and declared that no institution would be safe if it were resolved to take away its endowments in the manner that was now proposed. He would move, as an amendment, that the Bill be read that day six months. The SPEAKER said he was informed by the Clerk that the Bill was informal. PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION BILL, Mr. WHITAKER, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said he would have to occupy the House for a considerable time, but the importance of the subject must be his excuse for doing so. He would proceed to argue the matter quite irrespective of party considerations, his only desire being to get the best Bill passed that it was possible for the House to pass. The Bill which he had the honor to introduce was divided into a great many headings, and he would proceed to deal with them as briefly as it was possible for him to do. He would first of all deal with that portion of the Bill referring to the constitution of electoral districts. The Constitution Act laid down that electoral districts should bo constituted in accordance with the number of people in the various electoral districts throughout the colony. Had that principle been adhered to, many of the difficulties that bad subsequently arisen iu consequence of electoral districts bein'* constituted in accordance with the number °of electors on the roll would have been avoided. Some years ago a Bill was brought in and passed by the House of Representatives providing for the constitutin'* of electoral districts in strict conformity with the Constitution Act. By means of this Bill a self-adjusting scheme of representation would have been established, and those electoral districts would have been adjusted after each census. But the Bill was rejected by the Legislative Council, and the question of representation had therefore cropped up from time to time. The United States had adopted the self-adjusting scheme, and it was admitted that the scheme had been instrumental iu preventing any disruption of the Union. He wished to see the self-adjusting scheme introduced in New Zealand. Those who were opposed to this scheme asserted that by its adoption the country districts would suffer from the towns, but such a statement was perfectly fallacious. In this colony the same condition of things did not exist as existed in the Home country. New Zealand did not contain any large manufacturing towns like tbe old country; the towns were dependent on the country just as much as the country was dependent on the towns, and if the country did not prosper tbe towns could not pi caper either. The prosperity of the one depended on the prosperity of the other. He thought that all such questions as that of the constitution of electoral districts should bo entirely removed from that House; some finality should be arrived at on the question, and the House would thus be relieved of one of the most troublesome questions that had ever engaged its attention. If the House agreed to the Bill which ho now brought in, the electoral districts would readjust themselves after the taking of each census, namely, in every five years, and the number of xepresentatives would be determined on in accordance with the relation which the population of the ' districts boro to the entire population of the colony. Ho thought that if the House agreed to adopt tfao simple franchise of six or twelve months’ residence all difficulty would bo removed bo as , admitting the bulk of the population to the privilege of voting at elections was concerned. It was an absolutely reasonable proposition that all persons having a residential qualification should have the right to vote. It appeared to him equally reasonable that those who had no interest iu the country’s affairs should not bo given the privilege of voting at elections. His

Bill provided for a strict and careful means of registration, so that those who did not possess the necessary qualification should not bo able to get their names on the roll. The franchise hail been very largely increased iu England, and notwithstanding the fears expressed by numbers of conservatives, what was the result, that after the general election in 1874 there were a great many more Conservatives returned to the House of Commons than was the case after previous general elections prior to tho extension of the franchise. There was no use whatever in being timid in this matter, and there was no reason to be apprehensive of those evil results that some hon. members appeared to anticipate from the proposed extension of tho franchise in this colony. The question of registration was no doubt a troublesome one to deal with. That the system of registration should bo simple, complete, and inexpensive was a proposition to which every hou. member would readily ass-ut. The present system of registration had been in operation since 1858 —now twenty years—and was very imperfect. He failed, however, to see that the proposal of the Government on this part of tho subject would be any improvement on tho system of registration now iu force, which was alike imperfect and ineffectual. Tho question was, whether what he proposed was any improvement on the present system ? He submitted that it was. His measure provided for the appointment of properly qualified registration officers, whose duty it would be to keep_ the register, to see that tho name of every qualified person in tho district was placed on the register There would be no points of law to be decided. A man would send in his claim to have his name placed on the register. The roristration officer would see that he possessed the six or twelve months’ residential qualification, and if he did, ho would place his name on the register. If he refused to do so, or had doubts as'to whether the claimant possessed the six or twelve months’ residential qualification, the question would bo referred to the Resident Magistrate, who would only have to inquire as to a°question of fact—not of law. By this means registration would become easy, simple aucl inexpensive, and the present cumbersome, imperfect, expensive, and ineffectual system of registration would be got rid of. The next question was, did the present means of conducting elections realise their object? Assuming it to be a correct definition of the word democracy, that it was the Government of the people by the people—(hear, hear) —then the object to be attained was to have the whole of the people present in the persons of their representatives ; when these representatives were delegated by the whole community, then the decisions of the majority of their representatives must be abided by. The fundamental principle of the whole thing was this—that in order to have a pure democracy, they must have a representation of the whole people—a miniature of the country itself—a House iu which every interest of the colony should be represented, and where the fullest and fairest discussions would take place on all questions. It was very desirable that they should -have some mode by which hasty decisions should be prevented. The I ton, the Attorney-General feared that if all tho interests of the country were represented, the House would be made up of a number of cliques. Granted that cliques would be formed ; what harm could they do ? They could only give expression to their views, and if those views were acceptable to the majority of the House, they would of course be given effect to. The Hon. member cited from Burke and Mirabeau in support of his proposition that the House should represent the colony in miniature. Tile great principle he contended for was,—That they should be governed by a majority of the country. They should have no privileged class —not a representation of the majority of one class of people, but a representation of tbe majority of the whole people of the colony. It the minority found that they were governed by the majority, it would be the object of that minority to put forward their very beat men to give expression to their views in that House ; and it would likewise be the object of tile majority to elect their beat men, to face the best men of the other party. By this means he believed the country would derive very considerable advantage, and the House would be composed of the very best men that the country could produce. The question of the representation of minorities had been discussed time after time in England and in New Zealand. The question was brought forward prominently in that Legislature twenty years ago ; but he was sorry to say that very little advancement had been made, for the simple reason that no effectual plan to secure the representation of minorities had been proposed. He submitted that the Bill which ho now asked to have read a second time would meet the case. The Bill fixed certain electoral districts, the nature of the qualification, the mode of registration, the appointment and duties of registration officers, and the mode of exercising the franchise by those who possessed the necessary residential qualification to have their names placed on the register. The ballot would not be interfered with. The educational qualification was a question which they could discuss by-and-bye. In the present mode of conducting elections, it was necessary that some one should assist the voter who could not read or write. Now, it was very undesirable that a voter should be assisted by anyone —• (hear, hear) and therefore it would be well that a person should be able to read the names of the candidates, and to write the names of those candidates whom he prefers, before ho could exercise his vote. (Hear, hear.) The system which his Bill proposed provided all necessary safeguards, and was entirely free from all possible complications. By the adoption of that system, they would get nearer to the representation of the whole people of the colony than could be done by any other plan that ho could see. They would get more people to take an interest in the return of representatives to that House if his Bill became the law of the land. As he said before, what they wanted was that the House should represent the feelings of the whole colony. If they adopted his system, many men who were practically disfranchised under the present system would have an opportunity of exercising their votes in the return of members to that House. Under the present system, a voter was bound to vote for the candidates coming forward in his particular district, or not at all. Supposing, in the case of a certain district, the candidates were Mr. Gisborne, Mr. Hunter, or Mr. Barton, an elector might say “ Oh, I don’t care for any of them, and I will not vote at all” Now if that elector could exercise his vote in the return of candidates for any other district he might be enabled to vote for some representative who entertained views similar to those held by himself, and in this way he would have some voice in the return of representatives to Parliament. If this plan were adopted, then they would approach to something like a pure democracy, and the whole of the people of the colony—not merely a majority of the people—would bo represented in that House. Tie would ask hon. members to consider tho various clauses of his Bill without prejudice or party feeling. When they came to discuss the whole matter in committee it would bo seen which measure of tho two was tho better one—his own or that brought down by the Government; and perhaps hon. members would be able to devise a measure superior to both. He would now deal with the question of Maori representation. It appeared to him that so long as they gave tho Maoris a special representation they should not interfere in the return of European members to that House. (Hear, heard It was only right that so long as the Maoris enjbycd special representation they should not interfere in the European elections any more than Europeans should interfere with the return of Maori representatives. (Hear, hear.) If this special representation were removed, ho proposed to place the Maoris on tho same footing as the Europeans by the adoption of an adjusting scale according to population. By this means the Maoris would have about five or six more representatives ; if tho whole of the Maoris were placed on tho roll, they would have eight additional representatives ; but they could calculate on five or six, and in this manner tho Maoris would bo placed on an equal but no better footing than the Europeans. He begged now to move tho second reading °f_ the Bill, and ho hoped the result of their discussions would bo tho passing of such a measure as would place tho question of representation in this colony on a permanent and satisfactory footing for all time. If they succeeded in doing this they would indeed achieve a very groat and necessary result. (Cheers). The Hon. Mr. STOUT said it was not Ids intention to follow at length tho speech of tho hon. member for Waikato. He (Mr Stout) had moved the second reading of a Bill on the same subject, and perhaps it was as well that ho should postpone making any lengthened observations on the present Bill until ho was called on to reply to tho debate on the second reading of tho Bill which he himself had brought down. But there were a few mutters to which ho desired to make a passing reference. Ho was sure every hon. member of the House would give the hon. member for Waikato every credit for tho great care he had bestowed on tho elaboration of tho principles

which were proposed in tho measure now under consideration. Bat he (Mr Stout) must take objection to the very large powers which the Hill proposed by the hou. member for Waikato would place in the hands of the Government for the time being’. The Hod. member for Waikato stated that his Bill provided for the representation of minorities as well as the people of the whole country. Now, in his (Mr, Stout’s) opinion no system of representation that could be introduced could effectually provide for the representation of minorities. By tho Bill and the schedule to the Bill, second, third, and fourth votes, and votes up to ten, were entirely ignored. What was the use of creating all the trouble which the quota proposition would entail* if the result was that the men who had the majority were returned. What other result ensued from the present system ? No other result, and why therefore create so much unnecessary trouble as would cert duly aiise if tho plan proposed by the hou. member for Waikato were adopted. The Bill brought down by the hon. member for Waikato proposed to empower electors at general elections to vote for candidates in any district in the event of his not caring to vote for those coming forward in the district in which he resided, but such a system could not be satisfactorily worked, nor would it have the effect of attaining the end the hon. member for Waikato had in view—the representation of minorities. He (Mr. Stout) did not believe that minority representation would be productive of any good to the country ; the only result would be the formation of a number of cliques, which he thought the House should carefully guard against. However much he felt inclined to give the bon. member for Waikato credit for the amount of attention he had devoted to the elaboration of the Bill now before the House, he could not see how that hon. member’s proposals could be acted on with advantage to the colony. Mr. BARTON said it seemed to him that the Bill now before the House had been brought down by a very eminent member of the Opposition with the object of taking the wind out of tho Government’s sails by outbidding it for popularity ; and the hou. member for Waikato had engrafted on the Bill all that would prevent its being pernicious to the party by whom the Bill was brought forward. He hoped the House would take care to limit the exercise of the franchise to those who were able to follow intelligently the actions of their public men ; to those who could read the papers, and could understand what was going on in the country so far as its public affairs were concerned. What did the Opposition ask the House to do ? To consent to open the door to the placing on those benches a Government which would not represent the opinion of the majority of the people of the colony, but a Government which would represent a minority, a number of crotchets. He hoped the House would hesitate before it did anything which would tend to destroy the government of the country, not only by a parliamentary majority, but also by a national majority. Care must be taken not to lower the franchise too far. The two most dangerous classes in any country were the highest class, which was constantly looking after its own interests, and the lowest class, which did not know how to look after its own interests. The great safeguard of any country was the middle class, who seemed to bring a greater amount of sagacity to bear on any great questions that were submitted for consideration. The evils of lowering the franchise too far were demonstrated in the results that followed the Napoleonic plebiscites in France, and centuries ago in the occurrences that agitated the poj)ulaoe of Ancient Rome. He objected to the Maoris being placed on an equal footing with the Europeans in this colony. He believed in the Maoris being dealt with according to our judgment as to what was right and just, but not according to their own notions on that subject. The honorable member then proceeded to protest against those portions of the Bill brought down by the hon. member for Waikato. which placed certain large discretionary powers in the hands of “the Judges or other servants of the public.” The clauses with reference to costs were provisions made to help the rich. He saw all through the Bill the bias of mind that induced the party by whom the Bill was brought down to cling to the side of those whose interests they represented in the country. It was an attempt of a party to ape the manners and customs of their opponents ; and w’hat was it done for ?—to induce the sheep to kill their watch-dog and let themselves into the f .Id. The Opposition came out in their true colors when they occupied the Government benches, but off those benches they aped the manners and customs of those by whom they were at present occupied. The Bill now before the House was a proof of what he said. Mr. WAKEFIELD said he had no wish to detain the House at any great length at that late hoar of the night. He had listened to the speech of the hon. member who last sat down for three quarters of an hour, and he had not heard anything but the most shadowy kind of objection to the Bill brought down. The hoo. member, with a very bad grace, had made a series of imputations against the Judges and registration officers—imputations that ought never to have been made, and which the Government ought nob to have listened to. He did not think it was a speech which reflected credit either on the House or on the hon. member for Wellington. They did not wish to have election fights brought up in that House when those referred to were not in a position to defend themselves and when the minds of members were engaged with other subjects. Let those matters be brought forward at the proj)er time and in the proper place. He (Mr. Wakefield)) merely rose because he could nob allow the speech of the lion, member for Wellington to pass by unnoticed. He would vote for the Government measure when the proper time arrived, in the hope that when in committee such amendments would bo made as would result in a satisfactory measure becoming the law of the country, Mr. JOYCE moved the adjournment of the debate at 12.20 a.m. . After a few remarks from Mr. Rees against the adjournment of the debate, Mr. JOYCE aasked leave to withdraw his motion. There being several dissentients, the question of adjournment was put, and declared to be carried on the voices. Mr REES called for a division, but as there were not two tellers for the no division took place. The debate was adjourned until Wednesday next. The House rose at 12.25 a.m.