PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5183, 1 November 1877, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

1 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, October 31. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m. MESSAGE. A message was received from his Excellency the Governor, suggesting certain amendments in the Himatangi Crown Grants Bill, which were concurred in by the Council bn the motion of the Hon. Colonel W hitmobe, v> PAPERS AND RETURNS. Certain returns and papers, which had been asked for, were laid on the table by the Hon. Colonel Whitmore. - REPORT. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN brought up the report of the Waste Lands Committee on the Peninsula County Libraries Bill. —The report was read, and the Bill ordered to be committed next sitting day. new bill. The Hon. Colonel WHXTMOBE gave notice that on next sitting day he should move for leave to introduce a Bill to empower the Governor to exchange certain hospital reserves in the Waikato for certain other lands in the same district. MOTION. The Hon. Mr. HALL moved, and it was carried, That it be an instruction to the Standing Orders Committee to consider and report whether it is desirable to adopt any sp*ecial rules or standing orders for the consideration of Bills of . a local or per onal character, or of Bills which, although not strictly private Bills, affect the interests ofprivate individuals. ORDERS OP THE DAY. The Akaroa Public Library Site_ Bill was committed, reported to the Council without amendment, and, on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Hall, read a third time and passed. —The Bankers Books Evidence Bill was re-com-mitted, reported to the Council with amendments, and, on the motion of the Hon. Colonel "Whitmore, ordered to be read a third time next sitting day.—The Conveyancing Ordinance Amendment Act 1871 Amendment Bill was committed and reported with amendments to the Council, its third reading, on the motion of the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, being fixed for next sitting day.—TheJOity of Dunedin Loans Consolidation Bill (second reading) was discharged from the Order Paper and, on the motion of the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, made an order of the day for next sitting day. The New Plymouth Harbor Board Ordinance 1875 Amendment Bill passed its second readiug and, on the motion of the Hon. Sir E. D. Bell, was ordered to be referred to a select committee. —On the motion of the Hon. Mr. Buckley, in the absence of the Hon. Mr. G. B. Johnson, the City of Wellington Loans Consolidation Act Amendment Bill was discharged from the Order Paper and its further consideration in committee made an order of the day for next sitting day.—The Goldmining Districts Act 1873 Amendment Bill (second reading) was, on the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen, made an order of the day for Friday next. —The Wanganui Harbor Endowment and Borrowing Bill passed through committee, its third.reading on the motion of the Hon. Mr. Hall being fixed for next sitting day.— The Auckland City Endowment and Keserves Bill (to be committed), the Crown Grants Amendment Bill (second reading), and the Education Keserves Bill (second reading) were, on the motion of the Hon. Colonel Whitmore, discharged from the Order Paper, and made orders of the day for early dates CANTERBURY GRAIN TRAFFIC. The Council resumed the adjourned debate upon the question,—That this Council doth concur iu the report of the select committee upon the Canterbury grain traffic, and the amendment thereto, to omit the words “ doth concur in,” with a view to insert the words “ recommends that the Government take into consideration.” —The original motion was carried, the amendment being negatived by a majority of one on a division. PETITION. The Hon. Colonel Wfl ITMOBE resumed the adjourned debate upon the question, —Xnat this Council doth concur in their eport of the Public Petitions Committee on the petition of Heta Tiki, and that a copy of this resolution be forwarded to the Goverument.—The motion was carried. • The Council then (at 5 p.m.) adjourned until the usual hour next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. -Wednesday, October 31. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. NO CONFIDENCE motion. Mr. LAKNACH wished to make a few remarks on the position he occupied on the Treasury benches. Before moving the vote of no confidence he stipulated that he should not be asked to take office, as it would seriously interfere with his business engagements. He had been asked to form a Ministry, but he had found difficulties in his way. He had been accustomed through life to associate with men who kept their pledges. He had been a whole fortnight in office when the hon. member for. Egmont bad shown an indecent baste in desiring him (Mr.' Larnach) to bring down his Financial Statement. He had been accused of an ignorance of the amount of work to be done by accepting two offices.' He had accepted them temporarily; but so far the business connected with the departments had not fallen into arrear. He had prepared a Financial Statement, but he was prevented from com-, pleting it by not receiving necessary returns. He had been twenty-three years connected with oneofthe largest commercial firms in the colony, and surely, if he applied himself to the work, he would be as capable of understanding the finances of the country as the hon. member for Egmont. He felt that his name would be respected on the London 'Stock Exchange when that of the late Premier’s might be forgotten. He found that the debt of the colony was £19,895,000, but there were charges on the public works and other accounts which would bring it up to over £24,000,000 ; and it would soon be necessary to go into the London money market to borrow £5,000,000. On Saturday last the public account stood at £643,000, but after charges on account of Otago, Canterbury, and Hawke’s Bay were provided for there would be a deficiency of £12,000. Some £168,000 would have to be forwarded by the November mail to meet the interest on the public debt; and to preserve the credit of the colony steps would have to be taken to meet this liability. He did not accept office for what he could get, but for the interest of his constituents and the country, and if it were deemed necessary he was prepared to support a land tax, property tax, or income tax. Mr. WHITAKER desired to make a few remarks, as Ids name had been mentioned frequently during the debate. It was notorious that tho offices of Colonial Treasurer and Public Works Minister involved more work than any other departments of the Government, and the consequence was that tho Colonial Treasurer was not able to bring down the Financial Statement. His (Mr. Whitaker’s) party had boon willing to give the Colonial Treasurer full time to prepare tho Statement ; but as he could not name a day on which he would bring down the Statement, it was thought desirable to have the matter settled. He was accused of buying native land ; but as his laud transactions were before a committee of the House, ho would not go fully into them. The hon. member for Wanganui was a member of that committee, and he came down to. the House with a garbled statement of that evidence. It was absolutely untrue that he (Mr. Whitaker) had purchased native land at ss”. per acre in October last, Mr. Whitaker then explained his connection with certain land alluded to ’ by the hon. member; but ho had purchased that land twenty-three years ago, and then it was Crown granted. Certain natives desired to possess that land. The Government was desirous of meeting tho wishes of the natives, and had arranged with him (Mr, Whitaker) to exchange that land for other land. Ho was to receive acre for acre ; hut the Bill to give effect to the arrangement did not pass the Legislature. Ho was not tho Fast afraid that the fullest inquiry into the matter would result in the slightest reflection being thrown upon him in his laud dealings.

The speaker ’then referred v 'io >his conheciioCi -with-the late-Ministry being called-an . unholy-. alliance; It was strange that the hon. member for Wanganui (Mr. Balianoe) has. supported the Ministry for : fourteen months after he had become a member of the Ministry. With regard to the Native Land.'Bill,_ he believed that it was a step iu the right direction, and he would be prepared to take steps next session to have the principles embodied in it adopted. The Bill had been withdrawn because the House -was in. too excited “ state to deal with the question. The hon. member then went into the constitutional; question, and said ha could not find that during the last century any Ministry bad held office after a vote of no confidence had been carried against it. The Governor of New South Wales, during the recent crisis in that colony, said he would not grant a dissolution until he was satisfied that a Government could not be formed to carry on the business,of the country. The present -general election in that coleny was the result of an arrangement between the two parties, and supplies were granted without opposition. He denied that the late Government had failed to make proper provision for the "aols and hospitals of the colony. It had been said that the Government had stopped immigration ; but he could not understand that remark while ships were on the way to the colony with immigrants, and_ others were about to sail. It must be borne in,mind that the immigration vote for the present year had not yet passed the House. Certain members had been accused of apostacy; but the first of the apostates was the hon. member for Rangitikei (Mr. Ballauce). He .(Mr. Whitaker) had been accused of changing his own opinions; but that was a misconception. If the occasion arose he would still be prepared,to support the views he had always held upon the questions of separation and the land fund. The hon. member for Rangitikei no doubt was possessed of considerable ability, and he might yet have an opportunity of displaying his talents on the Treasury benches; hut he had made the mistake of going red-hot into politics at too young an age. He (Mr. Whitaker) had made the same mistake, and he regretted it ever since. An hon. member (Mr. Bryce) had accused the late Ministry of a _ violation of _ party principle iu accepting him (Mr. Whitaker) as a colleague; but after that violation of party principle he also had continued to support the Ministry for fourteen months. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Government had described himself as a gentle lamb; but he thought it would be more appropriate to represent him as a fox in lamb’s clothing. He spoke in a complimentary sense, for the hon. gentlemen the other night had certainly shown the astuteness of that animal. _ He thought the sooner they got rid of provincialism now altogether the better, and iu supporting a Ministry the House should look to the men and not to the place from whence they came. The gentleman who represented the Governthe Legislative Council had stated that their policy was a conservative one, while the Premier had spoken of a spurious aristocracy and a governing class. He failed to see that there was an aristocratic class in the community who governed the country. It was brains who ruled this colony. It was pure bunkum to apeak of a governing class. Were men listened to in that House because they were possessed of riches? In the selection of a Premier was any regard paid to the amount of land he owned? The hon. member for Dunedin (Mr. Stout) and tbe Native Minister bad influence in the House because of their intellectual power. He apprehended that neither of those gentlemen .had aristocratic connections to shove them forward. He (Mr. Whitaker) himself never was a landholder to any extent, and he felt he owed his position solely to people believing that he was possessed of brains. With regard to separation, he thought it was a question which would have to be debated before long. He held strong opinions on the land fund. It was a burning question. So long as it remained the colony should not resort to direct taxation. Let the people tax themselves for local purposes ; but if direct taxation were resorted to to fill the colonial cheat it would be a great mistake. Direct, taxes could not be collected in this colony. When he joined the late Ministry it was On the understanding that he should not use his position to further his views on the land fund and the question of separation ; but it was also understood- that he was at perfect liberty to leave the Ministry when he saw a favorable opportunity for advocating those views. He was now free, and he would devote himself, more fully to the questions, and he trusted he would meet with more success in the future than he had in the past in advocating these views.

Mr. BAPiFF followed, and said there was so little argument in the speech of the last speaker that it was not worth while replying to it. He said most distinctly that the members of the late Ministry were afraid of the present Ministry making a Financial Statement. The hon. member for the Waikato had stated that he could not understand finance ; but neither could he understand that though he was once a leader in the House, he was possessed of no influence now. The late Ministry had shown that they incapable of understanding native affairs, and if they had continued in office the result would have been a war in the North Island. He accused the Opposition of indecent haste in not allowing the Government sufficient time to bring down proposals. Mr. FITZROY said that the late Government had been accused of oentralistic tendencies, but the Premier a few nights ago stated that it was desirable that the administration of the colony should be grasped with one strong hand. There was a precedent for the present vote of want of confidence, for in 1872 the Ministry of Mr. Stafford was turned out in less than a mouth after taking office. ThePremier had addressed himself to tho gallery, but he would find that the working men of the colony were too conservative to follow him. The hon, member at the head of the Government in his address had given the land fund a wide berth. His views, however, were well known on the subject. The supporters of the present Government were holding aloof till the Ministry weathered the storm, when plenty would be willing to accept office. The present Government held views to which he was entirely opposed. He was opposed to their views on the land fund, manhood suffrage, and equal rights. (Laughter.! The Hon. Mr. FISHER said if the present Ministry remained in power they would give the squatters justice. If they refused this the people would rise against them, and tho squatters would fare worse. What was wanted was a commission to inquire into the proper rents to ha paid for pastoral lands. He compared the abolition policy of the late Government to a madman burning down a house and not being able to build it up again. He (Mr. Fisher) had been alluded to rather coarsely in tho newspapers as not possessing sufficient experience to qualify him for a position in the Cabinet. He was called fifteen years ago to take part as a member of a road board, after-, wards lie was elected to the Provincial Council, and then to the General Assembly. He had the confidence of the people with whom ho had been brought up, and they would prefer trusting 'him in power to a political schemer. When Si r J uli us Vogel quitted tbe late Government there was no . ability left among them, and hence'there was a Ministry who wore willing to accept anything so long a? they did not lose their seats on the Treasury benches. If the present Ministry were allowed time the House would find that they were fully competent to carry on the business of the country. Mr. SWANSON addressed the House at some length, and extolled the present Government. ; Mr. HAMLIN moved the adjournment of the debate. Major ATKINSON opposed the adjournment. He said it was understood the ' day previous that the division would be taken that day. ■ ■ ’ '' * Mr. Fyke and Mr. Stout supported tho adjournment. Mr. REYNOLDS strongly supported the adjournment. Among other things he said that if the hon. member for Roslyn (Mr. Burns) voted against the Government, he (Mr. Burns) was voting against the expressed wish of two-thirds of his constituents.

l '- 'jjr. 'rise.' "' 110 Faid that iiCWIs 1 .known-•-to-~hqu.---tneml>erß-that-lie-had--lately been suffering from Bovore ill-luiaUh, and that he was then unable’to iiUdihSS tho’House, but in a day ortwo ho would ho-able to show that what Mr. Reynolds had said did not contain one word, of truth, - ■ : ! ' ■Mr. REYNOLDS explained that ho intended no offence to tho hon. member. :Mr. MOOUHOUSE urged for tho question going to a division then. The eloquence of a Demosthenes,a Cicero, or oven that of tho hon. member for Auckland City East, could; not affect the disposition of tho present vote.' After many lion, members had spoken on both sides, Major Atkinson said he would not press his objection against tho adjournment. The House rose at 12 o’clock.