PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXII, Issue 5163, 9 October 1877, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, October 8. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by Messrs. Karaitiana Takamoana, Hislop, and Ballance. reports. A report was laid on the table by Mr. Ballance, in reference to the speech delivered by the Hon. Mr. Ormond on the Hawke’s Bay land transactions, and showing the material alterations in the Hansard report from the original proofs. The Hon. Major Atkinson, the Hon. Mr. Bowen, the Hon. Mr. Whitaker, and other hon. members, understood that the Reporting Debates Committee should have dealt with the whole of the speeches on the debate relating to the Hawke’s Bay laud transactions. It would not be fair to select a small portion of an hon. member’s speech as evidence of the general alterations made by hon. members in correcting the proofs of their speeches. The Hon. Mr. FOX thought the whole of the alterations made in the speeches on that occasion should have been scrutinized by the Reporting Debates Committee, in order to ascertain whether the hon. member for Clive had altered his speech more than other hon. members. Sir GEORGE GREY said that he did not wish to appear in the matter as a Crown Prosecutor. A Minister of the Crown had in his place in the House made serious charges against him, that had gone forth to the world. The gravamen of the charges he had made did not appear in Hansard. He (Sir George Grey) had a right to have a copy of the original charges as they had been promulgated, and for that purpose the original and corrected versions should be published.

The Hon. Mr. ORMOND said he had no objection to their being printed.

On the motion of Mr. Stout, it was agreed that the Reporting Debates Committee he instructed to further report upon the speeches on the Hawke’s Bay land transaction. In the meantime the interim report brought up by the committee was ordered to be printed. A number of reports were brought up by the Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee and ordered to be laid ou the table. NO CONFIDENCE MOTION. Mr. LARNAOH gave notice that he would move next day,—That the Government does not possess the confidence of the House. DIQUALII'TCATION COMMITTEE. At the request of the Hon. Mr. Stafford, his name was discharged from the committee appainted to inquire into the disqualification of the Hon. Mr. Whitaker. PERSONAL EXPLANATION. Mr. COX, as amatterof explanation, referred to certain statements that appeared in the statement furnished by the Hon. H. R. Russell in reference to Sir George Grey’s connection with the Taupo land transactions. The Hon. H. R. Russell said in his statement that Sir George Grey had offered, for the purpose of carrying on the operations of the company, a sum of £IO,OOO, at the rate of I or 5 per cent. He (Mr. Cox) desired to say in reference to that statement that lie never heard of such an offer having been made until he saw it in an evening paper the other day. He had not the remotest recollection of such an offer ever having been made. If it were true that such an offer ever had been made, he owed an apology to Sir George Grey for not having accepted the liberal offer. If any one were to say to him (Mr. Cox) that this offer had been made, he would deny it absolutely.

BILLS. The House went into a committee of the whole, when the Public Health Amendment Bill was introduced by the Hon. Major Atkinson. He also moved the introduction of the Patea Harbor Board Bill. A discussion followed. Dr. HODGKINSON objected to partiality being shown in the matter of harbor boards, aud unless the Government would also allow the Riverton Harbor Board Bill, he would oppose the motion of the hon. the Premier. He moved that the Chairman do leave the chair. On a division being called for it resulted in ayes, 38 ; noes, 38. The Chaim an gave his casting vote with the noes. NO CONFIDENCE MOTION. The Hon. Major ATKINSON, in speaking to the motion given notice of by Mr. Larnach, said that it would be better for that motion to be considered at once, otherwise it would be his duty to move the adjournment of the House until to-morrow. At the present late period of the session, it was desirable that the motion should be gone on with as soon as possible. Mr. LARNACH then moved the motion of which he had previously given notice. He disclaimed any intention of the former motion relative to the Waka Maori case being meant as a want of confidence motion. He desired now to show that he was not afraid to assume the responsibility that had then been attributed to him, and which the Hon. the Attorney-General had warned him against. He was now hitting straight from the shoulder, because he had felt for some time past that the present Ministry were utterly incapable of conducting the business of the session. And thus it had proved. The Education Bill had only passed through the House on account of the assistance aud consent of the Opposition. The financial proposals of the Ministry for the present year were without finality, they were no better than last year, and were altogether a sham. To make up the deficiency in the revenue it was necessary to fall back upon the land fund of Canterbury and Otago. The Government were equally remiss in carrying out the railways. Had they been more active we would now have many miles more of railways throughout the colony, that are now in an unfinished state. Another matter was the sale of the Luna. He, of his own personal knowledge, was aware of a firm that was quite prepared to give £ISOO more for that steamer than had been paid for her. Mr. Larnach then went on to condemn the sale of public property by private contract. The charge of disqualification that had been brought against him was the outcome of pure animus. The Government also had shown a remissuess in not opening up the coalfields of the colony. The whole police force of the colony had been disorganized. This in itself was a serious case of maladministration, which, amongst the many others, tended to deprive the Government of the confidence of the House. The Hon. Mr. McLEAN said that as one of the weakest members of the Ministry he had obtained the permission of the Hon. the Premier to reply to the remarks of the hon. gentleman moving the motion. (Hear, hear.) As regarded the Waka Maori motion not being one of no confidence, he would read from Hansard the opinion expressed on that motion by the hon. member for Rodney, where that hon. member, who had left his party and gone over to the great Middle party, of which he seemed to be the moving spirit—that hon. member, when Mr. Barnach brought forward his motion about the Waka Maori, said that he should be prepared to accept the legitimate consequence of that motion, which was understood to be one of no confidence. But the Opposition changed it to one of censure as soon as they saw they were going to be beaten on it, and they endeavored to retire. The hon. member for Dunedin City (Mr, Larnach) had said that the present no confidence motion was given straight out from the shoulder. He (Mr. McLean) would say that it would be met from a corresponding direction, and the result would show that the hon. member would be brought to the ground. He hoped that the motion would settle the matter once for all. With regard to the Education Bill, he contended that, like every other measure, it had been carried by a mixture of parties, and not by the block vote of either side. In that Bill the religious and capitation clauses had been struck out, but otherwise the Bill, a most important measure, had passed without further alteration. It was the quality of Bills brought forward, and not the quantity, that should be looked to. The Government was not to be reproached for not having passed more. Another Bill of great importance was the District Railways Bill, which was also, he was glad to say, supported

by the Opposition. As to their financial policy they were quite prepared to stand by it. Every hon. member was aware of the great difficulty that surrounded the question of the finances of the colony. The Government, in the face of great difficulties, were gradually getting them into a position that any one could understand. Taking up the partnership accounts between the Government and the provinces had caused a great deal of trouble, and under the present circumstances “ finality” was impossible. In another year the Government would produce a policy satisfactory to the House and the country. With respect to Canterbury and Otago, he did not believe that they were adverse to the proposals of the Ministry. The Government had faithfully endeavored to administer the funds of the colony in opening up the railways without partiality to any district. Otago would find on inquiry that it had received full justice in this matter. The Government had exercised great prudence in not launching out into works which they had not money to complete. The Land Bill brought forward was a liberal measure, but it had perhaps a good deal to do with the motions brought forward by Mr. Larnach. If the Opposition really desired the settlement of the country why did they not let this Bill pass before the present motion ? Regarding the sale of the Luna, it was known last session she was for sale. A Sydney man offered £3OOO. This amount wasrefused and £SOOO asked. Subsequently an offer of £IOOO was made, and that offer was communicated by telegraph to four Ministers who were absent. They all replied to the effect, “ sell her.” A sum of £2OOO was since spent on her ; but he (Mr. McLean) was quite prepared to sell her to Mr. Larnach for less than £BOOO. With regard to the question of disqualification over the acceptance by members of the House of Government contracts, it was for members themselves, and not Ministers, to take care that they did not infringethe Disqualification Act. Respecting the charge against the Government of not sending the Hinemoa to the Queen Bee, the reason was that the Hinemoa was out of repair at the time. The Government spent neither pains nor expense in sending the earliest possible relief. With regard to the opening up of the coalfields, the Government had done all that could be done in the matter. The Luna had done a great deal in this direction. In Greymouth, Westport, and north of Auckland large sums had been spent in railways for the purpose of opening up the country. He concluded by stating that the Government had no idea whatever of having a protracted debate on the motion now before the House. It was their desire to bring the matter to an issue as quickly as possible, so as t® allow the business of the country to be proceeded with. He hoped that after the division was taken the Opposh ion would be satisfied. Mr. LUSK regretted chat the Government had put forward one of its. members who admitted his own weakness. It would have been better had one of its members replied who would have made a statesmanlike speech, and not plead for mercy on the ground of weakness. The Government vas entirely without the confidence of the House or the country. Mr. Lusk went ou to review the action of the Government with reference to the various Bills that had been brought in by it. The Education Bill owed its present shape to the exerlions »f the Opposition. It was shorn altogether of its original and distinctive features. The Government was without any policy, and if it had a policy it did not possess the strength in the House of carrying it out. The Land Bill he considered would be equally unsatisfactory to all sections of the community, and in all parts of the island. In the financial administration of the affairs of the country by the Government he. had no confidence. He condemned in toto the financial, proposals of the Government. Mr. Lusk then proceeded at considerable length to criticise the county system. He pointed out its manifold defects, and thought that the Government should have before now brought down a Bill to remedy those defects. This was an essential measure, and the Government should have dealt with it at once. Mr. SHARP said the Government had deviated from the policy on which he previously supported them. He regretted that in the Governor’s address the Government had no policy. He thought there should be a defined policy ou the part of the Government, so that hon. members might know the party they were supporting. vVhoever drew the Native Land Courts Bill, it seemed to him that it was drawn with the intention of giving as much power, to one person as possible. He did not think there should be much difficulty in dealing with the native lands. The only policy of the Government appeared to be political rest. He would resist any interference with the abolition question, and would oppose the separation of the two islands. There should be a common purse, and the land fund was at the bottom of a great deal of the opposition to measures brought before the House. Until that bone of contention was removed there would be difficulties in legislating for the country. He thought the time had come for placing the finances of the colony on a more satisfactory tooting, and having to resort to Treasury bills for large amounts should be dispensed with. The present Government was the one which lasted for the past seven years. It was true there had been changes in the portfolios, but he thought they were responsible for the legislation which had taken place before individual members had taken office.

Mr. WOOLCOCK said, in reference to what had fallen from the last speaker, that if there were any fault with the Ministry it was that they had too much policy. Speaking of the Native Lauds Courts Bill, he thought if it had been fairly dealt with it could have been made a useful measure. He agreed with the hon. member (Mr. Sharp) that the land fund should be colonial. The county system had worked as well as could be expected considering the vast changes that had taken place in local administration. The counties in his opinion were too small. He did not maintain that the Ministry were perfect ; but the question was whether it was advisable to make a change at the present time. They heard too much about constitutional parties in the House. He thought the colony was in too young a stage for the formation of two great parties. There was' the great question of provincialism, which divided parties ; but since that was settled, members had a difficulty in deciding which side they should attach themselves to. He would support any measure providing for manhood suffrage, with a residence qualification. He thought a change in the incidence of taxation was also highly necessary. It had been said that the present Ministry were too conservative ; but take the present Land Bill for instance, and it would be found that it was very liberal, and would enable the people of the colony to settle upon the lauds. The Government had also pledged themselves next session to make a change in the incidence of taxation. The tendency of the measures of the Ministry was to make the land fund colonial property. He felt with other hon. members who had spoken during the debate that there would be no sound system of finance till the land fund was made colonial. The policy of the Government had been in harmony with the circumstances of the colony. The Government in their Public Works policy and finance had done as well as could have been expected. He denied that any great change had been made in the Education Bill : its leading principles had been maintained. The Government had great difficulty in carrying their measures in the face of a strong Opposition. Before he changed, he would like to know what was to be the policy of any new Ministry. Mr. Woolcock then pointed out the discordant elements of the Opposition. He wanted to know what could be evolved out of these elements. When Mr. Woolcock sat down there were loud cries of “ Question,” and no other hon. member rising to speak, Mr. L ARNACH, in replying, said he would he brief. It had been stated during the debate that another seven gentlemen could not be found in Parliament to occupy the Treasury benches. The sooner the House and the country were relieved of that impression the better.

The SPEAKER then: ywt the question, and a division was called lor, and the doors were locked.

Sir ROBERT DOUGLAS rose and informed the Speaker that ho had paired with the noes. , , The SPEAKER paid as the hon. member was then in tlie House he would have to record hl A division was then taken, with the following result : opposition-. BaK’ont C.rey Sfiinn 10 " Itallance Ilamhn Iwn Gellerl Harff Hislop I,' P ( tellLr > Pastlrws Hodgkinson Sheehan ll'randon Joyce Shntnski Brown. J. C. Larunch (teller) Stout iirown J. E. Lusk Swanson Vtinnv' Macandrcw Takamoana Curtis Montgomery Thomson Do Lautonr Murray Tole O'Jlerke Wakefield fyke Wallis Gisborne Kees Wood, M. GOVERNMENT. \tkinson Kelly Richmond Reel ham Kennedy "Owe Bowen Kenny Russell Burns Lumsden Seymour Button Manders Stevens Carrington McLean button Kitzroy Moorhouse ta"'" l , L.. )X Morris (teller) leschemaker Gibbs Murray-Aynsley Wason (teller) Harper Ormond vHS-*™ 6 / Henry Reid Mdlams Hunter .Reynold* oolcock. Hursthouse Richardson PAIRS. Opposition . Government R. G. Wood J ox . Taiaroa btafford liryco , Douglas After the Speaker had read out the numbeSi’r ROBERT DOUGLAS rose and explained that he had voted with the ayes through bavin" been locked in after pairing for the noes. O He of course would have voted with the Government. The Hon. MAJOR ATKINSON moved the adjournment of the House till the following evening at half-past seven. This was agreed to, and the House rose at 9 o'clock.