PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4838, 23 September 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, September 22. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at 2.30 p.m.

THIRD READINGS. The Rating Bill and the Otepopo Athenaeum Bill were read a third time. NEW BILLS. Several measures were received from the House of Representatives, and read a first time. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY BILL. This Bill was committed. The Hon. Dr. Menzies moved the excision of clause 2. After debate, the retention of the clause was carried by Bto 7. Progress was then reported, and leave obtained to sit again on Tuesday next. . STAMP ACT AMENDMENT BILL.

In committee the Hon. Dr. Pollen moved the insertion of the following new clause, to read as a proviso to section 107 of the said Act;—“Provided however that the administrator may give security by bond to the Commissioner or Deputy-Commissioner with two sureties to the satisfaction of such Commissioner or Deputy-Commissioner, the penalty in which shall be twice the estimated duty upon the sworn value of the property of the deceased, and such bond shall be conditional for the payment of the full duty upon such property within six months from the date of the grant of administration, and it shall thereupon be lawful for the Commissioner or Deputy - Commissioner to issue such administration although the duty thereon may not have been paid, and notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the said Act or this Act contained.” The clause was agreed to, and the

Bill reported with amendment. CANTERBURY SHEEP ORDINANCE BILL. The Council went into committee on this Bill. Clause 5 was struck out. The remaining clauses and the schedules were agreed to, and the Bill reported with amendment. PUBLIC WORKS BILL. The committee took up the Bill at the 29th clause. In the 61st clause an amendment was moved by the Hon, Col. Whitmore to leave the question of costs in the discretion of the Court. On a division the amendment was carried by 8 to 7.—lt was then moved to strike out subsection 3 of the same clause. The motion was lost by 9 to 8. On clause 75 the Hon. Mr. Hall would like to know how payment was to be enforced if the Road Boards were not in funds.—After an explanation from the Hon. Dr. Pollen, the Hon. Mr. Gray thought that Mr. Hall was making too much of the matter. Road Boards, so far as his experience went, were very cautious.—The clause was agreed to. On clause 76 the Hon. Mr. Hall moved a provision to the effect that reasonable notice should be given.—The amendment was moved more definite by the Hon. Mr. Hart.—On the suggestion of the Hon. Mr. Pollen, the clause was postponed. On clause 81 a discussion ensued as to right-of-way. This clause was also postponed. Further progress in committee was made at the evening sitting.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Friday, September 22. The Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. PETITIONS AND NOTICES. Petitions were presented by Sir George Grey and Mr. Baepp, and several notices of motion were given. CALIFORNIAN MAIL SERVICE. The report of the committee on the Californian Mail Service was brought up. It was to the following effect:—First, that the service should be direct from San Francisco to Sydney via Honolulu, Bay of Islands, Auckland: second, that the coastal service be performed by a private company to be approved of by the Government; third, that the subsidy be reduced by £IO,OOO. Mr. WHITAKER moved that the report be printed. Mr. STOUT moved that the word “ printed be left out, and that “referred back to the committee” be substituted. He contended that the report was neither one thing nor the other, and that the object for which the service was originated would be lost by abolishing the coastal service.

Mr. REYNOLDS could see no advantage in referring the report back to the committee, as a large majority of the committee were in favor of it.

Mr. MACANDREW, while agreeing genrally with the sentiments of Mr. Stout, thought it would be unadvisable to refer the report back to the committee. He expressed regret at the decision which the committee had arrived at to abolish the coastal service. Mr. HUNTER said he was not present at the meeting of the committee that morning, and did not concur in the report. Mr. BURNS would move that there be no departure from the original contract, and was proceeding to speak on the question when The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER explained that he had moved that the report be printed with a view of moving immediately afterwards that it be taken into consideration next sitting day, when the matter could be fully considered and debated.

Mr. Stout’s amendment was then withdrawn, the report ordered to be printed, and to be taken into consideration on next sitting

day. Other reports were laid on the table, no discussion following. QUESTIONS. Mr. TOLE asked the Commissioner of Telegraphs,—lf the Government will establish a telegraph station at Newmarket, in compliance with the application recently made to the Commissioner of Telegraphs by the petition of residents of Newmarket and surrounding district ? The Hon. Mr. WHITAKER said steps were being taken to establish a telegraph station there in connection with the railway station.

Sir R. DOUGLAS asked the Secretary for Crown Lands, —If he will obtain from the Superintendent of Auckland a statement of his objections, if any, to the opening up for settlement of the Matapouri or such other block of land as may have been referred to by the member for the Thames, with a view to having such objections removed ? He said that the land was in the hands of the General Government. The Hon. Major ATKINSON r said he should endeavor to obtain the information asked for, it being a General Government question. BILL INTRODUCED. On the motion of Sir George Gust, a Bill to provide for the continuance of every House of Representatives for three years, was introduced and read a first time. QUESTION OP ADJOURNMENT. The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved, — That this House at its rising do adjourn till half-past seven on Monday for the consideration of Government business only. A slight discussion followed, and the motion was carried. IMPREST 30PPM BILL. A message was received from his Excellency the Governor [accompanied by an Imprest Supply Bill. The Hon. Major ATKINSON moved that that the House resolve itself into of Supply for the purpose of considering the Bill. Mr. BEES, before the Speaker left the chair, desired to say a few words regarding the Government accounts, in regard to which he had made some remarks on a former occasion, because the Hon. the Premier had endeavored to contravert statements which he (the Speaker) had made, and so that the Hon. Major Atkinson, who he understood purposed making a sort of financial statement on Monday, might explain some of the anomalies that appeared in the latter's speech in answer to him (Mr. Rees). He read portions of that speech from Hansard, and was quite willing to admit that the Premier was correct in saying that he did not understand the system on which the Government accounts were kept, and he thought, considering how the accounts were kept, very few people would be found who could understand the system. He spoke at

some length with the object of showing' that there were many discrepancies in the accounts.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON said the hon. gentleman was laboring under a wrong impression, because he did not intend to make any financial statement on Monday evening next. Mr. REES proceeded with his remarks, and repeated the expression that the colony had gone to the bad £400,000 during the past year, notwithstanding that it had been controverted. The House had beenled blindly long enough, and the Ministry on going out should have given a full statement of the position in which the country stood as to its finances. The House had already voted an imprest supply of £500,000, and now another imprest of £500,000 was asked for, which made a million, and that before any estimates were seen. Such euermous imprests seemed to him to be unprecedented, and he did not think half a million should be asked for at the end of the session. He maintained that none of the charges he had made against the finance of the colony had been explained away or replied to in any way. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said he could set the hon. gentleman’s mind at rest on one point. The Government only proposed to ask for £250,000, and should be quite willing to take less if Imprest Bills were brought down from week to week. Proceeding to the hon. gentleman’s charges against the Government accounts, he said it was hopeless to discuss the financial question, and stated that he had already given him a full explanation of matters he had referred to, an explanation which should be convincing. His (the speaker’s) statements as to the money in the Treasury were simple facts which could not be denied, unless his statement were disbelieved. He went on to say that the hon. gentleman seemed to be unaware that the Government were from day to day aware of the balance in hand, both in this colony and in London. The hon. member appeared to have got into a difficulty by not understanding that the account was one in London and the colony, and that the transfer of money was simply a matter of convenience, and did not alter the actual balance in hand. The honorable gentleman would only look at one side of the question. There was no colony in the world which had such a complete knowledge of its accounts as this colony had. In conclusion, he asked the hou. member to come to him privately for information he might desire, and he would most probably be satified if not, they would have to fight it out in the House. Mr. READER WOOD said the Government accounts were involved by bookkeeping—one department one system, and another department another. The hon. Treasurer should come down with his statement not mixed up with booking. He was sorry to hear that the hon. gentleman did not purpose making any further statement.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON : You misunderstood me. My remarks solely referred to Monday next. It is my intention to make a statement on the Provincial Arrangements Abolition Bill.

Mr. WOOD continued, and said there were many points on which it was desirable to obtain information from the Government, amongst other things, for instance, whether it was the intention of the Government to continue the provincial system till the end of the session, or declare it no longer to exist, as the provincial supplies would run out next Saturday. Sir GEORGE GREY hoped the Government would not press the motion, and that the House would not go into committee until a further statement with regard to the financial position of the colony was made, understanding the Hon. Major Atkinson to say that he had such a knowledge of the accounts of the colony as would enable him to make its position perfectly clear day by day, and he would therefore suggest that he should make a statement on Monday night next, and that the Committee of Supply be postponed till then. The Hon, Major ATKINSON denied that he had said anything of the kind. What he said was, that they could ascertain the balance of cash in hand at any time within an hour ; but there was a wide difference between that and making a statement giving a comprehensive view of the whole of the affairs of the colony.

Sir GEORGE GREY : Then ' the hon. gentleman was not fit for the post he held. There should be no difficulty in miking a statement of the kind. He proceeded to say that the Government accounts were in a condition so complicated that even he (who had been studying financial statements all his life)could not comprehend them. The Government should review to the House their whole financial position, as a great crisis was impending, and then the House would grant such supplies as they were justly entitled to ; but until such information was supplied he should resist any further supply. Mr. MONTGOMERY hoped no obstacle would be thrown in the way of the Government obtaining the necessary supplies for carrying on the services. The Government should choose their own time for making statements. Mr. STOUT thought the Government were not proceeding with ordinary caution. The financial year commenced on the Ist of Tuly,. one fourth of the revenue had already been voted in the shape of imprest supply, and the three months had not expired. How long this state of things was to continue he knew not,, but he thought very little good would be done by discussing the financial position. They would go oninthesame way. The only substantial point raised was that as to whether any provision had been made for the carrying on of provincial administrations, which, unless such provision were made, would lapse shortly, and then nothing would be done, which would perhaps be the best means of showing the public the effect of abolition.

Mr. HUNTER thought the discussion which had taken place was to little purpose, and the charges made against the Government in respect to their accounts, he said, were without foundation. In the first place the accounts were perfectly clear to persona possessed of any knowledge of such matters. The Financial Statement was very complete, being accompanied by a mass of figures arranged in tabular form. (He read extracts from some of these tables). That House, he might remark, had very great power, but it would be generally admitted that it did not possess the power to confer upon certain gentleman the ability to comprehend matters in regard to which they displayed ignorance the most lamentable. After referring to the system on which the Government accounts were kept, and by which money voted to one department could only be charged against that department, he proceeded to speak of the crisis which was thought to be impending by Sir George Grey. He (Mr. Hunter) did not anticipate anything of the kind. On the contrary, he looked forward with confidence to the future, and felt sure the revenue would increase as it had done latterly. The colony had the confidence of the Home money market. The last loan was negotiated with signal success, there having been applications for a larger amount than was required, on the terms being made known. He believed the colony would be able to overcome greater crises than ever it was likely to encounter. Mr. ROWE considered that the discussion raised by Mr. Rees was a waste of time, and' characterised the figures of that gentleman as incomprehensible. Mr. MURRAY said they should enter on the question of finance upon its merits, and not be always introducing the question of abolition. The motion of the Hon. Major Atkinson was then carried, and the House went into Committee of Supply, and passed the Imprest Bill without amendment.

Mr. O'RORKE reported the resolution to the House, and it was read a second time, and on the motion to refer it to the Committee of Ways and Means, Sir GEORGE GREY asked that it be proceeded with no further until the Government had afforded some information regarding their intentions respecting the Provincial Governments—as to how they were to carry on, or if they were to lapse. He put a question to that effect. The Hon, Major ATKINSON replied to the

effect that it was proposed to extend the Appropriation Act, and it would in a day or two be his duty to make a proposition to the House regarding the matter. Mr DE LAUTOUR said he considered it most 'important that the House should know what the Government intended doing in reference to the continuance of the provincial appropriations. He thought the Government needed no opposition. If rope enough were affordedthem they wouldsoon hang themselves. Mr. READER WOOD asked for definite information as to what was to he done. It seemed to him as if the Government did not know when abolition was to be came in o effect, or how it was to he carried into effect. The House wanted to know whether the country .was to be carried into oonfuaion. The Hon. Major ATKINSON said hon. gentlemen were over anxious. J he ™ l nt and the House were quite satisfied with the manner in which the Government were conducting the business of the country. (N o, no) Hon. gentlemen might say _ No, no, but naturally they said that _in consequence of the Government adhering steadily to the course they had taken, and which they intended to adhere to. When the time came the Government would be quite prepared to take in hand local administration; but at present they could not interfere with the provincial authorities, whose functions did not cease till abolition took effect. They were at present under responsibility of admuusterint' the provincial affairs, and it was their place to recommend —(no, no). If the Government had taken any other course, they would have been told they were unduly interfering with the Provincial Governments, but they were quite willing to receive recommendations. That course had been taken by the Superintendents of some of the provinces-some of the larger provinces—and the Government invited all to do the same. He assured the House that the country would not be thrown into confusion. , _ ~ Mr. REES having addressed the House, the question was put that the debate he adjourned, and was negatived. Mr. TOLE then moved the adjournment of the House. Sir GEORGE GREY criticised the statement of the Premier, and said such a statement had never been previously Triads in the history of civilised man. He said to such a pass had matters come that the Government before further time had elapsed must state what they were going to do. If not the people of the province of Auckland would he justified in meeting in convention and determining for themselves what their future should be. He said the provinces were threatened with ruin next week ; but if there was to be min, there should he ruin for all. The ruin should he common, for if he was the only one in the House, he would oppose a shilling of money being granted. He accused the Government of wasting the resources of the country by giving the land away to their friends in blocks of 87,000 acres, like the Piako Swamp was given to the bon. member for Waikato (Mr. Whitaker.) The crisis consequent upon the extravagance of the Government must come, and it might as well come at once. The hon. member for Wellington City (Mr. Hunter; had said the country for the next twenty years must go on borrowing; hut did that hon. member suppose the country could go on borrowing two or three millions a year? Certainly not. In all cases tyranny was brought to an end for want of money, and < so it would be with New Zealand. The time ] was coming when large numbers of the people ( of the colony would leave it, and when ] others would sink into a state of poverty from which they would never emerge. However, until some conclusion was come to, he would do his beat to prevent the Government getting - supplies. He regarded it as one of the greatest const!tnti®nal fights man had ever engaged in. He felt he was fighting for generations to come, and to prevent the country being plunged into the direst distress. He repeated ( his charges against the Government of having j given the land away to its friends, and neglected the people. He asked what would be the result of political influence wielded by ] owners of such large tracts of country ? Already its influence was being felt. The present members for Waikato would never have been in that House had it not been for the influence of money. Mr. COX presumed he was one of the mem- ; hers for Waikato referred to, and to clear up ' any doubts as to why he was in the House he ( might inform the House that he would never ( have got in had he not been opposed by the hon. member for the Thames. (Laughter). 1 Sir GEORGE GREY challenged the hon. ' member for Hamilton to show the telegram he had received from his constituents, and then j went on to repeat he would oppose supply. ( He would sit in the House and fight the battle 1 alone until he should be carried out unfit to ( fight more. _ ( The motion for adjournment was negatived, ' and the House went into Committee of Ways ] and Means. i Mr. REES again asked the Government if they intended to give any indication of what ( they intended to do in respect of the adminis- i tration of the provinces ? ; The Hon. Major ATKINSON replied that ( as long as the Superintendents remained in ] office they were responsible for the conduct of the business of the provinces ; but as soon as abolition came into effect the Government would become responsible, and would make provision. They had made provision as far as possible, and were making provision as far as ■ possible ; and when the time came would accept the responsibility. Sir GEORGE GREY said the Provincial Councils must be called together, and asked the Premier if he would give a promise that 1 the present state of things should last until the end of the session. The Hon. Major ATKINSON: Certainly not : the Government make no such promises 1 at all. (Hear, hear). The proposals of the Government will be before the House next week. Sir GEORGE GREY: I understand no promise will be made. Then we throw ourselves upon the country. Progress was reported, and on the question of passing the Bill through all its stages, Sir ! George Grey opposed it.—Mr. Rolleston, whilst out of accord with Ministers, deprecated any such action on the part of the House as i stopping supplies, and bringing disaster on the i country. Major Atkinson explained that • certain sums had to be sent Home. Further discussion ensued, in the course of which Sir George Grey said that if the money were not forwarded it would be the means of getting the Imperial Government to send out commissioners to inquire into the finances of the colony.—After considerable discussion, the Premier reiterated a statement made previously by him, that it would be the duty of the Government to make provision for carrying on provincial administration until the coming into effect of the Abolition Act. —The Bill was then passed through all its stages. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. Before going into Committee of Supply, the Hon. Major Atkinson said that before asking the House to pass further estimates he would make a statement as to the reductions it was proposed to effect. Mr. BASTINGS introduced his resolution for the construction of the Waipahee and Tapanui branch railway, to be paid for by the sale of land in the district. After discussion, the motion was lost on a division by 28 to 27. The House adjourned at 11.24 p.m.