PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXXI, Issue 4782, 20 July 1876, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wednesday, July 19. The Hon. the Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. Th Hon. Captain FRASER asked if the Government had any objection to lay on the table copies of any correspondence which may have taken place between the Chancellor of the New Zealand University and the Government, with reference to a suggested change in the governing body of the New Zealand University ? The Hon. Dr. POLLEN replied that he had no recollection of any correspondence such as that referred to ; but it there was any the Government would offer no objection to its being produced. JURIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The above Bill was read a third time, on the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen, and passed. REGULATION OP LOCAL ELECTIONS BILL. This Bill was committed. A prolonged discussion took place on clause 3, with respect to ; the question of admitting the principle of proxies. It was eventually postponed bn the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen. Clause 5 was also postponed. Clause 6 was agreed to. On clause 7 the Hon. Mr HALL moved, — That the words “ or before the chairman of the local body” be inserted after the words “justices of the peace."—Agreed to. Clause 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 were agreed to. Clause 9 was postponed. Some discussion took place on clause 15, on a motion by the Hon. Mr. Hall, to leave open the duration of the hour of polling, not’to *be less than six hours, ■ The motion of the Hon. Mr. Hall was lost; and the clause without amendment allowed to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 16 to 27 agreed to. Clause 28 was postponed, on the motion of the Hon. Dr. Pollen. Clauses 29 to 36 were passed. On clause 37 the vagueness of the words “ a miner’s right,” was alluded to. It was suggested that the words should be altered to any miner’s right or rights, so as to prevent an elector voting twice on different miners' rights. The Hon, Dr. POLLEN took a note of the objection. The clause was agreed to. Clauses 38 to 46 we,re also agreed to. On clause 47 the Hon. Dr. POLLEN moved to report progress, the committee to have leave to sit again on Friday next.—Carried. general gas act, 1876. A message was received from the House of Representatives with the above Act. It was read a first time and ordered to be printed. ’leave to give evidence. . The Hon. Dr. Pollen ’ was granted leave to attend and give evidence before a select committee on the petition of certain settlers of Ngaruawahia. The Hon. the Speaker was granted similar leave to attend a committee on the petition of settlers of the Waikato. The Council then, 5 p.m.,'adjourned till the following day.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, Jolt 19. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. REPORT OP A SELECT'COMMITTEE. The report of a select committee on the Timaru Gas, Coal, and Coke Company (Limited) Bill, was adopted. LEAVE OP ABSENCE. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Taiaroa for a fortnight. QUESTIONS. In answer to Mr. Stevens, The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said he was unable to state what were the respective contributions of the provinces to the Consolidated Fund during the year ended 30th ult. It was impossible for a Treasurer to carry such figures in his head ; besides, he might say he had only known three hours since what had been the actual revenue for the year. If notice of motion tor a return were given, the Government would afford every facility for its being printed early. To Mr. CURTIS, who asked the Hon. Sir Julius Vogel, if he would furnish the House with an approximate estimate of the probable liabilities of each province, for which it is intended to make provision by the proposed loan of £750,000, The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL replied in similar terms. In reply to Mr. Wood, The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said the Government had no intention of introducing a Bill this session to change the constitution of the other branch of the Legislature. The Government had not even considered the matter. new bills. New Bills were introduced: —By Sir 6. Grey —Auckland Institute Act Amendment Bill. By Mr. Montgomery—A Bill to make provision for the Drainage of Lakes Ellesmere and Forsyth, and for the formation of a line of railway from the Southbridge and Christchurch Line to Little River, and thence to Akaroa Harbor. LAND GRANTED TO RELIGIOUS BODIES. Mr. HAMLIN moved—That there be laid before this House, a return of all sections of laud within the province of Auckland granted to any religious denomination, as sites for churches, cemeteries, parsonages, or glebes, during the last ten years. Such return to specify the number of each lot or section granted, the district in which situate, and the area comprised within each grant ; together with the name of the particular denomination for whose use the grant was made.— Agreed to. PETITION OP WILLIAM HUTT. Mr. KELLY moved, —That the petition of William Hutt and others, respecting their alleged claims to land in the Manawatu district, be referred to a select committee. Such committee to consist of the Hon. Sir D. McLean, Mr. Brandon, Mr. Bunny, Mr. Hamlin, Mr. Johnston, Mr. Ormond, and the. mover.—Agreed to after slight amendments. GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS. Mr. L ARNACH moved, —That a return be laid before this House, specifying the sums of

money spent, and being expended, in the con* struction and repairs of Government buildings throughout the colony, since Ist July, 1870. The said return to state the purposes for which my bmldmg was erected, and the purposes for which it is now used ; also to show, in detail, the amount spent and being expended for the above purposes in each province in each yean since the date named above.—Agreed to HYPOTHECATION OF DEBENTURES. Mr. E. WOOD moved,—That there be laid before this House, copies of all correspondence and telegrams in connection with the sale or hypothecation of the million and a quarter oS unguaranteed debentures. The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said the Government hoped the hon. member /would not press the motion, because the wh c the correspondence had been of a conn *iaJ nature, and it would not be well'to puii just yet, whatever might be done by and He might, however, say that a letter received yesterday stated that arrangements had been made for borrowing a million upon the unguaranteed debentures' and some of the guaranteed debentures. £1,000,000 would be advanced to the Crown Agents on £1,250,000 worth of debentures, and the terms were favorable to the colony, the amount being borrowed so that sums of £50,000 could be taken out of the bank, the interest being 5 pec cent., and the loan being repayable at twelve months from the date of the money being drawn out. . Mr. STEVENS enquired whether he had rightly understood that the unguaranteed de* bentures were supported by the guaranteed Sir GEORGE GREY asked to be informed of the date of the transaction with the Bank of England. . Mr. MACANDREW urged the House not to attempt to force from the Government information which was at present of a confidential character. The public interests might suffer if such a motion were carried, and he hoped the hon. member for Parnell would withdraw it. The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said if the House were to agree to the motion and insist on the correspondence being brought down, it would simply force the Government, to decline to receive confidential communications from agents on important business. No doubt hon. members had the right to ask for information, but the Government must reserve t* itself the right to decline to afford information on such a delicate matter as this when they had reason to do so. The negotiations with the Bank of New Zealand had been carried on for the purpose of obtaining an advance of a million on the unguaranteed debentures ; but the counsel of the bank had advised that the Crown Agents had no authority to hypothecate these and the .bank therefore could not advance the money. The Crown Agents were not immediately in want of money, and did not think it desirable to make any attempt to get an advance on the short-dated debentures. . Later on the Bank of New Zealand, without any charge, became responsible to the Bank of England for a million, which sum had therefore been forthcoming on the terms indicated.. The short-dated debentures on theic arrival in England would be substituted for the security given by the Bank.of New Zealand. In replj to the hon. member for the Thames he might say the transaction with the Bank of England was concluded on the Ist June. Mr. R. WOOD said he had no objection whatever to withdraw the motion after the explanation given. Metion withdrawn.

. COUNTY BOUNDARIES. The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON moved,— ’ That a select committee of fifteen members be appointed to consider the proposed boundaries of counties for the Middle Island, and to make recommendations thereon; six to be a quorum. The committee to consist of Mr. Barff, Mr. Bastings, Mr. Curtis, Mr. Harper, Dr. Henry, Mr. Macandrew, Mr. Manders, Mr. Pyke, Mr. Reid, Mr. Rolleston, Mr. Seymour, Hon. Mr. Stafford, Mr. W. Wood, Mr, Woolcock, and the mover. Mr. MACANDREW suggested that the motion should be postponed until the people o£ the different districts have had time to consider the Bill. Mr. STOUT raised a point of order as to whether, according to a certain standing order named, a Bill could be referred to a committee until it bad been read a first time. The SPEAKER ruled that the standing order referred to did not affect the motion. The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL deprecated what he regarded as an attempt by a side issue to raise a discussion. On the Counties Bill the desire was to obtain the valuable assistance of members of the House in regard to the proposed boundaries for counties. Whether the Bill passed or not the consideration of the subject contained in the motion should be of interest to members. Mr. ROLLESTON took exception to the remark of the Premier as to .the discussion being raised on the Counties Bill by a side issue. It was the privilege and business of members to discuss motions coming before them. Further, he would state that the people .were taking very large interest in the new proposals, and would take care to give expression to their views through their representatives in the House. Mr. DONALD REID thought the motion, was premature, and that if - the boundaries were to be considered at all, it would be better done by meetings of members from each district. Mr. LARNACH opposed the motion. Sir Robert Douglas, Messrs. Manders, Thomson, Wood, and a number of others spoke. The latter expressed a very strong opinion on the subject, and stated that on all hands the greatest fear was felt with referenceto the financial policy of the Government, and the House would not, the Government would find, be led step by step to countenance a policy with which in its entirety they, did not agree. Mr. PYKE called attention to the fact that if constant delays of this kind were permitted, the effect would be to tire members out, and consequently there would be nothing but imperfect legislation during the session. Mr. ANDREW moved as an amendment to the motion, that it be postponed for a week. Mr. MACANDREW moved as a further amendment, that the motion be adjourned till after the second reading of the Counties Bilk The Hon. Mr. RICHARDSON said the Government were prepared to accede to the generally expressed wish of members, and were prepared to adjourn the question. Mr. REES said there was no truth in the general observations of Government members, that the Opposition were desirous of delaying business. The Counties Bill should have been brought down long since. He would support the amendment of Mr. Macandrew. Mr. ANDREW withdrew his motion in favor of that of Mr. Richardson. The question that the debate be adjourned until after the second reading of the Counties Bill, was then put and carried. The Hon. Major ATKINSON then moved, —That a select committee be appointed to consider the proposed boundaries of counties for the North Island, and to make recommendations thereon; five to be a quorum. The committee to consist of Mr. Ballance, Mr.- Bunny, Mr. Cox, Sir R. Douglas, Sir G. Grey, Mr. Johnston, Mr. Kelly, Mr. Ormond, Mr. Sheehan, and the mover. The debate on the above was postponed until after the second reading of the Counties Bill. OTHER MOTIONS. Mr. SEATON moved,—That there be laid before this House, copies of all correspondence between the Minister for Immigration and Mr. H. W. Farnall, late Emigration Agent in the North of Ireland.-—Carried. Mr. JOHNSTON moved, —That there b laid before this House, a copy of the corres poudence, during the last year, between the Government and Messrs. Douglas and Co., with respect to the Oroua and Carnarvon block.—Carried. Mr. ROWE moved, —That the petition of the Thames Borough Council and several Highway Boards, relative to the purchase of land for settlement, be printed.—Carried. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. The Hon. Sir JULIUS VOGEL said, before proceeding to the orders of the day, he desired

to make a statement with regard to thenotices of motion given by the members for Waikato and Geraldine. He did not desire to raise discussion, but the resolution the Government had arrived at was that in the first instance the resolution of which the hon. member for Geraldine had given notice if earned would not give to the Consolidated Revenue so large an amount as it would receive under the Government proposals, so that it would be seen the resolutions had not expediency to recommend it. In respect to the resolution of the member for Waikato, the same objection might be raised, and the Government had arrived at the detennination to offer both the resolutions the most unqualified opposition. However, the Government desired to afford members the fullest facilities for discussion. He might inform the House that in all probability the papers to which reference was made on the previous day would be laid on the table early next week, in which case the discussion could be taken at the end of the same week. Whilst the resolutions were thus hanging over the heads of the Government it would be quite consistent with the usual custom for them to ask for an adjournment, and decline to resume other business ; bat the Government having in view the convenience of hon. members, desired to consult their wishes and proceed with the business in the meanwhile. ‘ORDERS OF THE DAT. Orders of the day Nos. 1 to 7 were postponed, also No. 9. The report on the South Dunedin and hfc. s Hilda Municipalities Bill was agreed to, and •the Bill read a third time and passed. (•' The Canterbury Education Reserves Leasing Bill was read a second time. The Otago Presbyterian Church Conveyance Validation Bill passed through committee, and was ordered to be read a third time oh the day following. The second reading of the Bluff Harbor Board Bill was postponed, and made an order of the day for next day. CANTERBURY LEASING. BILL. Mr. WASON moved the second reading of this Bill. Messrs. Rolleston, Harper, Eisher, and other Canterbury members spoke on the Bill, after which , Mr. SHEEHAN moved the adjournment of the debate, on the ground that it was desirable not to discuss a measure of this character until the Government Bills were dealt with, as these would materially interfere with the operation of the Bill. He that the Government were showing uneasiness in bringing down their measures —in fact, were hunting the lobbies for a policy—and he commented on the absence of the Secretary for Lands when an important question like this was coming on tor discussion. The Hon. Mr. BOWEN explained that Major Atkinson was prevented from being ■present owing to illness, and said had the hon. member for Rodney been in his place a few hours previously he would have heard the Premier say the policy of the Government was before the House, and the other proposal before the House would be opposed. That did not look as if the Government were hunting for a policy. In regard to this Bill also the Government had expressed its opinion. The Premier had stated that certain proposals would be brought down in reference to the Canterbury waste lands, and that the Ministry were not prepared to discuss this Bill at all, and deprecated a discussion. Mr. WAKEFIELD expressed his pleasure that an hon. member from the_ other extremity of the colony should take an interest in Canterbury affairs, and thought the fact was significant of the benefit to'be derived from abolition, while it also showed that members of a particular locality could not smuggle measures through the House. He suggested the adjournment of the debate, and expressed regret that the Government had not taken a decided attitude in respect to the Bill. Sir ROBT. DOUGLAS protested against so many adjournments of business being assented to.

The debate was then adjourned. CENSUS BILL. This Bill was committed. Mr. STOUT took objection to the census being postponed till 1881, and in reply to the Hon. Mr. Bowen, who said there had been a census so late as 1874, and it was not con* sidsred desirable to go to more expense till the year when a census would be taken in England and the other colonies, Mr, Stout saad he could not see the force of the arguments used. Messrs. Bees- and Wakefield also urged that the census should be taken in due course, and that no alteration in the time should be made. After considerable discussion, the Bill was amended so that while the year 1881 was fixed as a period for taking -the census, the option was left to Parliament to take a census during the period intervening between then and now. The Bill was reported with amendments, and leave obtained to sit again, when it was further amended so as to enable the Government to take the census at any time of the year that might be deemed fitting. The Bill was then further reported, and the third reading appointed for next day. OTHER bills. The second reading of the' Friendly Societies Bill was postponed. The Hawke’s Bay Bivers Bill was read a third time and passed. On a message from the Legislative Council, the Juries Act Amendment Bill was read a first ? fine. The second reading of the Education Boards Bill was postponed until Friday. RATING BILL. The House then went into committee on the Bating BiU. On clause 40 there was some discussion, the Government proposing to rate such property as under existing legislation was liable to rates. Eventually progress was reported and leave obtained to sit again on Friday next. The House adjourned at 12.35 a.m.