MESSRS. PEARCE & HUNTER.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4600, 17 December 1875, Page 1 (Supplement)

MESSRS. PEARCE & HUNTER.

PUBLIC MEETING. A well-attended meeting of the electors of the city assembled at the Odd Bellows’ Hall last night, in response to the invitation of the late city members (Messrs. Pearce and Hunter). Mr. Geo. Crawford, who was called to the chair, bespoke a fair and impartial hearing for the speakers. The appearance of Mr. Pearce ’and Mr. Hunter as they walked across the stage, elicited a hearty burst of applause. xVmougst those present on the platform were Major” Paul, Messrs. Thompson, J. Martin, J. Plummer, J. McDowell. J. Gill!gau,_Hou. C. J. Pharazyu, P. Moeller, AY. Hutchison, T. McKenzie,” B. W. Mills, A. Young, C. AVhite, C. Tringham, &c, Mr. Pearce, upon rising to address the meeting, was received with loud and prolonged applause. He said : When I addressed you five years ago on this platform, and offered myself to represent you in the General Assembly, I, promised to support a policy of peace and progress, a policy that had raised New Zealand from a state of anxiety and depression to one of confidence and prosperity. (Applause.) It is difficult to realise tiie changes that have taken place since 1870. Five years ago the country was just beginning ■to accept the truth, that it was possible to bring to an end what was known as “the native difficulty,” without any more Woodshed, and without any further expenditure of money. It was seen that Sir D. McLean was right, that the true and only way of dealing with the question was to open up the country. He saw what was necessary to restore confidence and bring about the occupation of the land in the North Island. He saw that that was all that was necessary, and that time was all that was required to make war with the native race an impossibility. The natives themselves were beginning to learn that after all it was better to live under the laws of the pakeha, and the pakeha was beginning to find out that it was better to treat the natives as neighbors than as enemies to be feared ; and if peace has been a blessing to New Zealand, and especially to the North Island, no less Pas the policy of progress been of inestimable advantage to the whole colony. The vast and rapid strides that have been made within the last few years in the means of communication throughout the colony, have been productiveof great results. Those who have travelled about the colony cannot have failed to be - struck with the immense changes that have taken place, and the large amount of work done in a very short period of time. 'When I addressed you last year, after the session of. 1874, I entered most elaborately into the financial aspect of the public works and immigration policy. I do not propose wearying you to-night by going over the same ground ; and yet I cannot but think it must be of interest to all of you to have your attention called for one moment to what has been done, to what is being done, and to what is to be done in connection with public works. The Parliament that has just been dissolved authorised the construction of no less than 1000 miles of railway at an estimated expenditure of £6,000,000. Already probably 400 miles are completed, and within a very few months another 100 miles will be open for traffic ; and it must be gratifying to those who take an interest in the subject to notice that, notwithstanding the fragmentary nature of the lines, in nearly every instance the estimated receipts have been far below the actual receipts. Indeed the receipts have so exceeded the working expenses as to yield a very substantial sum in reduction of the interest on the cost of construction. As an illustration I may point even to our little line from Pipitea to the Hutt. That line, notwithstanding the station is far from the busy centre of the town, notwithstanding it is too short to make goods traffic of any moment in the calculation, notwithstandingall these drawbacks —that little line from Pipitea to the Hutt, on the 30th June last, netted a sum of nearly £2OOO over working expenses. The line will shortly be open as far as the Upper Hutt, but it will be eighteen months before it can be completed as far as Featherston. It is to be regretted that the broken and hilly nature of the country has caused so large a delay in the completion of that Hue. Mr. Travers, in his speech to you the other evening, called special attention to the delay in the completion of that work, and he compared the progress made with the number of miles constructed in another province. Now, I think one moment’s consideration will show you that it is hardly fair to compare the progress made with a line through a broken, hilly, and densely timbered country, with that of lines running through clear and level land, such as is in Hawke’s Pay and Canterbury. In addition to the delay, it is to he regretted that the cost of constructing that line has been found to be much more than the engineer’s estimate. Last session of Parliament we were asked to appropriate a sum of £IBO,OOO to complete that line; £IOO,OOO to complete it from Featherston to Masterton ; £35,000 to make the reclamation; and £25,000 for the wharf itself. These were the largest appropriations asked for last session. I referred just now to the comparison made by Mr. Travers, ?who also called your attention to the fact that the coach road from Masterton to Woodville was still uncompleted. Considering that during the last financial year .£28,000 was spent on that road, that no fewer than fifty bridges have been put up on it, and that the Government is still going on with the metalling, I- do not think we have any cause to complain. (Applause.) In short, Wellington has no cause to complain of the amount of money spent within its boundaries. Indeed, I venture to affirm that the province of Wellington, considering its population, and the amount of revenue it contributes to the General Government, has received a very large share—its full share—of the money raised under the Public Works and Immigration policy. But without continuing this subject any further, I desire to ask your attention to some observations on the impending constitutional changes. Yon are all probably aware that I voted for the measure introduced and passed last session for the abolition of the provinces. (Loud applause). You do not need from me many arguments in support of the necessity of some change in the old form of government. Indeed few speakers, during the debate on the second reading of that Pill, ventured to maintain that it would be wise to continue provincialism in its present form. I think X may say that the country spoke out upon this subject with no uncertain sound. (Applause). Daring the session, and while that subject was being debated, newspapers and the telegraph gave information from day to day of meetings being held in all parts of the colony, and although there was groat -diversity of opinion as to whether abolition should tako place then or not, on the main question there was a remarkable degree of unanimity. All that was suggested was delay. I do not mean to say that there were no opponents to the measure. There are always men who will oppose any measure, who will cling to anything which they have been used to. What the House had to consider was this ; would delay be of any advantage to the country. Those who are opposed to the measure argue and hold that the constituencies should have been consulted ; but they forget that perhaps no subject for a considerable pgriod had so constantly occupied the public mind, because ever since the famous resolutions of j(i7l—l mean the resolutions of Mr. Vogel, referring to the abolition of the provinces .'.t the North Island —the country has been calling out for a geijc'rid measure. The advocates of provincialism toll qs that the liberties of the people were in danger ; but really it was very difficult to follow them in what they meant by those liberties of the po°P*o’ I know of no country in the world where the blessings of freedom are more thoroughly enjoyed than in New Zealand. (Cheers). But I never yet heard that either Superintendents or Provincial Councils were the guardians of the liberties of the people, or that Provincial Councils had ever equalised the burdens of taxation. This question is being . properly agitated now, fori hold every man J ought to contribute to the cost of government in proportion to the income lie derives. Now provincialism, so far from securing tu the peu.

pie equality in this respect, has, with its land compacts, been tiie main cause of the admitted inequalities as between province and province. When I heard Sir George Grey in such earnest language telling us that the liberties of the people were being trampled on, and denouncing the Government for the unconstitutional course they were persuing, I what the provinces had ever done for the liberty ’ and equality of the people. We were told we ' were depriving the people of a great prnilege. Is it a privilege to have the country ' overran with political officials Is it a ! privilege to have a set of land laws so ’ diverse that not only strangers but t ie ! oldest colonist cannot understand them. _ 4 ne measure passed last session is both elastic and ’ tentative. It is not intended to be a hnal ’ measure. Finality in such a matter is a mere ‘ dream. It is quite impossible that any system of vovenunent can be exhaustive for all time. ; New schemes are often looked upon simply as encroachments to be insisted. But such were the notions of old-fashioned lories, and such seem to be the notions of proviucialists, who ; are trying to bolster up a system that has ceased to be of any use, and has positively become harmful. I refuse to believe that iu destroying provincialism we destroyed the political life of the people. The great interest which is now being displayed in political matters refutes that. I can find no arguments in defence of the present system that can recommend themselves to our intelligence. It cannot be justified by extent of territory, nor by any diversity of interests. I am satisfied it will be a good day for New Zealand when there will be one law and one system of government, and true local administration for purely local affairs, with fewer men in the colony looking to a political career for a living. In fact, provincialism had in its germs the creation of a number of petty states such as existed in Germany, until it was lately abolished, always antagonistic to each other, and with no combined plan of action for the common welfare of the country. It had been asked—What do you propose to put iu the place of provincialism ? Some years ago Mr. Header Wood was asked the same question. He answered, “ Nothing.” Now iu so far as that answer applies to the towns and cities of New Zealand, I say it is complete. What on earth do we want more than our municipal institutions in towns ? Do we want any intermediate authority between Parliament and our municipal institutions ? It should he a fundamental principle that the people should be allowed as much as possible to manage their own affairs in their own way, provided they do it according to law. (Applause.) No doubt it may be very difficult to devise a suitable organization for the country districts, where population is more scattered, and where miles of roads are to be constructed and maintained, and dangerous rivers to be bridged ; hut whether in the form of shire councils or hoards of works, with extended powers and substantial endowments, you null always find good men who will be willing to be elected to undertake the charge of local works. And if you leave it to them, you are more likely to get your works well done, and those which are beneficial to the whole country. These institutions, however, must be established under some common law, to be passed by the Parliament of the country, so as not to be responsible to anything but the common law. I shall not expect to have a good and perfect measure all at once, or, perhaps, even one that ■will work tolerably well. The thing must be allowed to grow. (Applause.) Probably, I have said enough on this subject to let you understand what my views are. I now desire to refer to a matter of deep interest to us all, and one that at present is agitated a good deal. I refer to the question of education. (Applause.) Mr. Gisborne, in his address to you the other night, quoted from Hansard from a speech I made in the House of Representatives in 1871, on the second reading of the educational measure Introduced by the Government of the day, and of which Mr. Gisborne was a member. Now, although my views as to the direction which legislation should take on this subject are altered, I am bound to confess I am not ashamed of having used the words he read ; and I venture to think, if the sentiments to which I then gave expression were uttered now, they would find an echo in the hearts of many of you. It has been very truly said that experience accumulates, and that new forces display themselves. All systems, therefore, require to be remoulded from time to time. Well, then, experience has shown me that the State must confine the aid it gives common schools to the teaching of what is understood as purely secular education. (Loud and prolonged applause.) Public revenues, it is quite clear, must not be given to propagate any dogmas or doctrinal opinions whatever, or to prop up any church system. (Applause.) It must be admitted that both in the old country and here the religious element has stood in the way of the passing of any good measure of education. (Applause.) That being the case, a purely secular system has been forced upon us, as the only solution of the question. • (Applause.) If, therefore, the Government introduces a purely national and undenominational measure for the consideration of parliament, and if I should have a seat in the House of Representatives, that Bill will have my cordial support. (Applause.) I hope I have been sufficiently clear to be understood by all my listeners. I find it necessary to follow very much the same subjects which have been treated upon by candidates throughout the colony. I do not strike out any new line. The subjects I deal with have been dealt with by others in various parts of the colony. Upon the question of the incidence of taxation, judging by the speeches of candidates, there seems to be a wonderful unanimity of opinion—at all events upon one point, and that is that the Customs duties must not be increased. On that point I agree with the previous speakers. But there seems to be a good deal of misapprehension as to the effect of the alteration that took place a year or two ago. I refer to the alteration from measurement duties to ad valorem duties. It had been held that additional burdens were placed upon the people, but that the richer classes had not to contribute any more towards the revenue than they had hitherto done. But this is a mistake. As a matter of fact, that alteration iu the collection of duties affected the incidence of taxation very materially. It removed a number of anomalies. Under the old system a roll of cotton paid as much as a satin dress. These anomalies existed many years, and were only removed by the alteration from measurement to ad valorem duties. Larger revenues were not raised without making the burden fall upon the shoulders of those best able to bear them. (Applause.) It may, however, be very well to discuss whether the duties at present chargeable might not with propriety be reduced, and I shall he glad when the Colonial Treasurer is able to come down to the House and propose to do that. But that is a question which no individual member can take the responsibility of. It is purely a Government question, and one which they only can undertake to deal with. Many have suggested the propriety of a property tax. Now, if by a property tax merely a tax on land is meant, I venture to think it will be very difficult to show any good reason why laud should hear a greater burden of taxation than any other description of property, such, for instance, as bank stock or shares, and from which a larger income is derived than from land. It is true that the public works policy which has been inaugurated iu New Zealand has increased the value of real estate very materially ; but it has not done so equally in all cases. Some lands have been enormously increased in value iu consequence of tho construction of railways and roads, but other properties have not been benefited one sixpence ; and the whole question is therefore surrounded with difficulties. How is the tax to be fixed so that it rqay fall upon the right shoulders and upon them only ! (A Voice; Tax according to value.) But with regard to an income tax. I know of no fairer or more equitable tax to irajro.se, always providing that honest returns are obtained, and if the Government, either in aid of revenue, or to reduce taxation iu tho form of Customs' duties, desire to impose an income tax, I am quite prepared to support it. (Applause.) Of course, it is to ho understood that only incomes above a certain amount are to he chargeable with that tax. The burden

of taxation is perhaps heavy, considering the population we have ; but when one comes to compare the resources of this colony with those of our neighbors, we see what wonderful wealth we have. I do not know that any of you have taken the trouble to read the tables attached to the Financial Statement of the Colonial Treasurer, but these show how well our resources compare with those of eur neighbors in the Australian colonies ; and we may even derive some encouragement from going to tiie history of the mother country. Early last century the public debt of England only amounted to £50,000,000, and tho sum raised by taxation was only £6,000,000. Now the debt of Great Britain amounts to £800,000,000, and tha t is the juice Great Britain has paid for her present greatness. In like manner the public debt of New Zealand is the price we paid for the very rapid progress we have made iu civilisation. Further, I may point out that only twenty years ago the exports of Great Britain, amounted only to £90,000,000, and the sum raised by taxation amounted to- £85,000,000. Last year our exports exceeded £5,000,000, whereas the sum raised by taxation amounted to £1,500,000. Surely these figures compare favorably for the colony. But lam told that the debt per head is enormous in New Zealand, that, in fact, the burden is unheard of. Well, if you add to the debt of Great Britain the cost of her railways, you will find that the rate per head iu New Zealand would not be greater by comparison after all. To my mind the colonists are better off, better fed, better clothed; and in every way better able to bear taxation than the subjects of the Queen in the mother country. You can see, therefore, from what I say that I do not take a desponding view of our financial position. I find in my memorandum that the next subject I have to call attention to is the Legislative Council. It seems to be the tendency at the present timeto decry that body —to abuse it because it has on several occasions been pleased to reject some measures which were passed by the House of Representatives. Some go the length of saying that we had better get rid of it altogether; or, at all events, make it elective. But, iu my opinion, the Legislative Council has done its duty conscientiously, fearlessly, and honestly, and I do not believe that that body has abused its privileges at all. I believe that the country has frequently had reason to congratulate itself that there is such a thing as an Upper House, and I think before we endeavor to make it elective, we should be wise to look at the experience of the neighboring colonies. It has been found in Victoria that an elective Upper Chamber can be more obstructive than any nominated Chamber. ' The very fact of its being an elective Chamber makes it more jealous and more anxious to show its power, as in Victoria, where, owing to the action of the Legislative Council, a complete dead-lock occurred some yeare ago, and they were not able to pass the Appropriation Bill. I do not desire to worry you by prolonging my speech to-night. I fully recognise the responsibility that rests upon me in offering myself again to represent you in the General Assembly ; but I desire to say that it you return me you share with me that responsibility. I believe I have been of some use to you, and I hope that you are of my opinion. (Hear.) lam not one of those that speak often iu the House. I am n»t one of those whose sayings fill the pages of Hansard. I read the other day that there was a disease known to the medical profession by the name of emotional aphasia. Those suffering from that complaint are forced to speak whether they like it or not. Sometimes they talk sense, and sometimes nonsense—more frequently the latter, lam happy to say, gentlemen, that I do not suffer from that complaint. (Hear.) As I have acted in tho past, so will I act in the future. I desire that you will return the men whom you believe will serve you best. For myself, if I have by social ties secured your goodwill and favor, I beg of you to forget this when you record your votes. I desire to win in this contest, but I desire to win only if I have your whole confidence. (Applause.)

The Chairman intimated that tho candidate would now answer any questions put by the meeting. Mr. Carpenter was desirous of knowing whether Mr. Pearce would endeavor to relieve the burden upon the people by imposing an export duty on wool ; at least a penny per pound he thought would he projier. (Cheers and laughter.) Mr. Pearce : I cannot agree with Mr. Carpenter. lam satisfied that to, place a tax upon wool would be a most suicidal proceeding. We must be very careful how we act iu such directions. It should be our object to make New Zealand attractive to capital, as well as to labor, and if we place an export duty on wool, we shall drive cajiital out of the colony, and the consequence would be ruin. Mr. Carpenter asked would the candidate be in favor of a property tax based on acreage principle. He complained of land monopoly by capitalists. Mr. Pearce said his impression was that the best form of taxation would be an income tax, because a land tax could not be imposed equally. No doubt there would have to be a revision of the land laws, the defects in which were duo to Provincial Governments. An Elector asked why did Mr. Pearce not object to the duty on gold. Mr. Pearce said that was a much vexed question. It had been held that that tax was only a royalty, gold being got out of the ground by digging for it. (Laughter.) He did not understand much about goldfields, but he believed that it was only necessary to get a miner's license and go and dig for the gold, and pay the royalty or duty. Mr. Carpenter : Do you mean that the local governing bodies you have mentioned should have taxing powers like the Corporation, which is so heartily detested in this place ? (Laughter.) Mr. Pearce ; It will be necessary to give tho local bodies taxing powers, but not lawmaking powers. An Elector asked for an exj>lanation_regarding the redistribution of seats last session, and why Wellington did not get an extra member I

Mr. Pearce said the jiosition of the Representation Bill last session was this : The Government proposed to add eight new seats to the House of Representation, six for the Middle Island, and two for the North Island. During the debate—-which ho should inform them took jilace in committee—Mr. Hunter and himself (Mr. Pearce) spoke at considerable length, a fact ho was desirous of making them acquainted with, inasmuch as Messrs. Travers and Gisborne had charged the city members with neglect for not speaking on that Bill. The fact was that the debate was not rejiorted in the papers, because it took place in committee. What they (Mr. Hunter and himself) desired to do, was to do their best for this province and the North Island generally with respect to representation ; and to that end they worked, holding that to give six additional members to the South Island and only two to the North was placing the latter island at a disadvantage. There was a return laid, on the table showing tho number of electors in each district, hut it turned out that the return was inaccurate, Wanganui was put down as containing a greater number of electors than it really had, but they were under the imjiressiou that the return was correct. They saw an opportunity of getting an additional member for Wanganui, although they could not do as much for Wellington, and they gave Mr. Bryce their sujiport, and also assisted the member for Waikato iu trying to got one for that district. They jmt all their strength iu that direction, and succeeded in gaining that much, namely an additional member for Wanganui and for the Waikato. No seats were added save these two ; and considering that they had been partly instrumental iu obtaining two additional seats for the North Island —one of them for the province of Wellington—he thought it most unjust to charge them with having neglected thoir duty. Mr, Travers : What, 1 did say was that you did not use that influence with the Government to which your consistent support of tho Government justly entitled yen.

Mr. Pearce thought they had got as much as they were entitled to. They could not have obtained an additional seat for Wellington City. The Chairman then introduced the other candidate. Mr. Hunter, on coming forward, was received with cheers. He said : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen,—On some subjects there have been differences of opinion between Mr. Pearce and myself, notably on the first question touched upon by Mr. Pearce to-night. When the abolition resolutions were brought forward by Mr. Yogel I voted against them, because I did not think it fair that the provinces should be abolished in one island and not iu the other. On the second reading of tho Abolition Bill last session, I voted against it, because I thought it a question which ought properly to be discussed by the people, and settled by the new Parliament. Those were the motives that guided me in my action with respect to the abolition question. I will now go into the matter raised in tho last question put to Mr. Pearce—the representation question, and njiou which we have been accused by Messrs. Gisborne and Travers with neglecting our duty. On the occasion of those accusations being made, Mr. Pearce and myself were perfectly silent. We sat still and listened jiatiently to all Mr. Gisborne and Mr. Travers had to say, and I think the same rule should. be observed on the jiresont occasion. (Hear, hear.) It would be a very indecorous proceeding if we, as oandiaddressing you, should he interrupted and interfered with by gentlemen who have previously addressed the electors. I must also say, with reference to Mr. Carpenter’s questions, that they should not have been accompanied by speeches. Questions should be put clearly and shortly, so that the candidates can return brief and satisfactory answers. I jiropose in the first instance to notice one or two remarks made by Mr. Gisborne, in reference to the charges brought against ns. In my opinion the claim of Wellington to an additional member was not tenable. Considering that Wellington is the capital of New Zealand, the seat of Government, and the home of several Ministers, it has a fair share of representation, I think it would apjiear grasping to desire more, AYe should not fail to recognise that Welllington is part and parcel of the colony. It has received fair play at the hands of the Government, and I am satisfied that the request for an additional member would not have been acceeded to by the House. The question of representation was one upon which we had a little diversion—one upon which we beat the Government. The Government brought in a Bill to give two seats to the North and six to the South Island. ME , Pearce made a mistake in the number of seats for the South Island. Well, myself and certain other members of the House combined in endeavoring to obtain a more equal distribution in both islands, because under the proposal contained iu the Bill the North would not have received a fair proportion. The first constituency that came under discussion was the Thames. The Government proposed to give one additional member. A motion was made for giving it two, but it was negatived. It only got one member. Then came Napier, whose cause was weak, hut we sujjported its claim ,to additional representation, because it is a thriving, flourishing district, and we succeeded. Next came Wanganui, and we supported that proposal, because it is a rising and important settlement, and we saw that by giving Wanganui an additional member we should be giving another to the province of Wellington. We also assisted iu obtaining an extra member for the AYaikato. The result was, practically speaking, that the North got four new seats and the South got the same. Under these circumstances, I do not think anybody ■will say that we neglected our duty to the province of Wellington or to the electors of the city. (Cheers.) Mr. Gisborne said something about what would he involved by the change in the Constitution, when Parliament would have to sit for ten months in the year. No doubt the abolition of provincialism will throw a large amount of extra work on the Parliament of Now Zealand, and we must resort to the Supreme Legislature for powers of taxing, which Mr. Carpenter does not seem to relish. But it rests with the people to elect those to represent them in these local governing bodies who will use their power with discretion. Tho peojile have clamored for these changes, and they must now assist iu carrying them out. You will never get roads and imjirovements made without funds, and to a certain extent those funds must be raised locally. I will now proceed to the question of education. Mr. Gisborne stated that I was a member of the Provincial Council at the time the Education Act was introduced into this province. Undoubtedly I was, and I have no reason to regret the course I then took. Up to that time no provision had been made for education. The province did not possess the means of building school-houses, and we had to raise funds by taxation, and that was done. The secular element was insisted on in the Bill, but there was a clause leaving it to the discretion of the Board to assist denominational schools. The result was that nearly all the denominational schools in Wellington were placed under the control of the Board. I believe that arrangement has been carried out since, and until lately was regarded as satisfactory. But latterly there has been a difference of opinion, and if we find that certain denominations will not come iu for tho common good we must eliminate the disturbing element, and confine ourselves strictly to secular education. I recognise that tho education tax is one of those which ought to fall on those best able to bear it. The State should provide for purely secular education. Such are the views I shall sujqioit in the Assembly if re-elected. As far as the provinces are concerned, their day is at an end ; when the General Government brings forward the education question (which they in all probability will), I believe it will he for the best interests of the colony to base any general measure on the secular system. (Cheers.) Mr. Gisborne said something about the law relating to friendly societies requiring . revision. Ido not jirofess to understand much about the subject. Mr. Forster, one oi the leading'English statesmen, delivered a speech on the subject—a sjieech full of information and full of points to be considered by us when any proposal is made on the subject. I recommend any gentleman who desires to gain information iu that direction to read the lecture recently delivcredby Mr. Forster in England. (Laughter.) I now come to tho question of Customs duties. Like a good manyotherqueations, thorohaa been a great deal of misconception about it. During last session I pointed out the total amount of Customs duties collected. In the year 1873 the total revenue amounted to £1,044,690. Of this, £480,971 was made uj) by duties —on tea, £59,157 ; eoffco, cocoa, &e., £6849 ; coffee, ground, £l2 ; sugar and molasses, £95,179 ; goods by measurement, £92,592; do by weight, £55,390; ad valorem, £127,409; other duties not specified above, £44,383; t0ta1,.£180,971. Assuming all these articles to come under the head of what we term the necessaries of life, the coat jier head on the population, estimating the number at £300,000, gives a little over 30s. per bead. I do not think that taxation iu this direction presses so heavily on the laboring classes as some have endeavored to make out. If I have a station and keeji a number of servants, it is I who have to pay the duty on tea, sugar, and other articles of consumption, and I have to pay them, thoir wages also. Taking the articles on which Sir George Grey proposed to abolish the duties, namely, tea, £59,159 ; coffee, cocoa, &e., £0849 ; coffeo ground, £l2 ; sugar and molasses, £95,179; the: total comes to £161,197, which would effect a net saving of 10s. Bd. per head. It apjieors clear that tho more we look into the matter the less ground there appears for the arguments that the people of, this country are heavily taxed. I will now refer to tho question of provincialism, and what Mr. Travers has said upon tho subject. , The other night ho said he was not and never had beep a jiroviucialist. I had an idea then that be had expressed himself differently some time ago. For instance, I read here “ Mr. Travers, iu reply,

said he stood before them as a convert to provincial institutions.” (Mr. Travers, “hear, hear.” Cheers.) . Mr. Travers : Read the rest. Several Electors : AYheu was that ’ Air. Hunter ; It was some time ago. lie was responding to a toast at a dinner given to the Superintendent. Electors : AYhere was it 1 Air. Hunter : In the Theatre. Air. Travers ; Read the rest of it. Air. Hunter : Yes ; I will read it all. “Mr. Travers, in reply, said he stood before them as a convert to provincial institution and his conversion was chiefly due to a speech delivered by Air. Fitzherbert when lie was first elected Superintendent, in which he explained it was the duty of the Provincial Government to co-operate with the General Government iu carrying out colonisation, for the object of both should be to increase the pojmlation of the country, and to develope its resources. That could not be done by any central body, for it could not have the requisite local knowledge.” Mr. Travers : “ Hear, hear.”

Mr. Hunter continued : But what did he say the other evening, according to the Post ? —according to the authorised version of his speech, and which I suppose is a correct one. Here, he says, “ It appeared to he the general opinion that provincialism should be abolished, and he agreed with that opinion.” (Cheers.) So much for Mr. Travers’ consistency with respect to provincialism. Now, with respect to his conduct in the future, should be be elected. I suppose he goes in as an opponent to the Government. He tells ns (again according to the authorised version) —(a laugh)—“a strong ojiposition party was being organised, and unless a good scheme were proposed, it certainly would not be accepted by the Assembly.” Well, Mr. Pearce and myself have been supporters of the present Government ; and, I believe we are likely to continue so. (Loud cheering.) On a former occasion, when we came forward for the city, we did so as supporters of the Government, and Messrs. Travers and Richmond opposed us. Then the question was clearly raised ; we then went in to support the Government, and in order that wc may continue to do so we ask now your votes. I believe that Messrs. Travers and Gisborne may be considered as opponents to the Government, and they are iu the secret of this “ strong Opposition party being organised.” I fancy that Mr. Gisborne desires office. If he were returned, and changes in the Ministry were to take place, he would probably have no objection to go on to the Treasury benches. (Hear, hear.) I won’t say any more than that. Mr. Travers says he has refused the Attomey-Generalshiji, and does not want office, and we are bound to take his statement as correct; but, permit me to say men modify their views, and if a change in the Government were to take place, it might he possible that the views of Mr. Travers might also he changed. I don’t say it would be so, but it is quite within the range of probability that it might be, and that on second thoughts Mr. Travers might be willing to become Attorney-General, or to accept office as a responsible Minister. A Ye must consider that it is proposed to have a new Ministry, for we hear that a “ strong Opposition party is being organised,” and we can scarcely think there would be a strong party organised, unless there was an ultimate object in the direction I have indicated. Let us just take the keynote from that warning, and if you desire a new Government (which we don’t think desirable), you must get someone better than Mr. Pearce and myself to assist you. The next most importantpoiut is thechargesmadeagainstus, or rather against the Government, for having neglected their duty to the jirovince of AA r ellingtou, Mr. Travers said, and enforced it upon ns, that “ one fact is worth fifty theories,” and he showed us a jilan. Now, I say that “ one fact is worth fifty theories,” and I am going to show you a plan directly. He then went on to say “ that AYellington had been left out in the cold altogether as regarded public works.” Now, “one fact is better than fifty theories”—(a laugh)—and I will read you a few figures, and ask you what you think of them. But remember that the foundation on which we start is, that “ one fact is worth fifty theories." In the province of New Plymouth, 11 miles and 13 chains of railway have been constructed, and 8 miles 60 chains are advertised for contract ; in Hawke’s Bay, 59 miles have been constructed, or are advertised or under contract; but there are in AVellingtou 126 miles 54 chains iu that position. (Cheers.) I may say that 14 miles of the Hutt line is finished, but not open except for excursion trains, because it leads only to the bridge, which is not yet available for traffic. It and the line as far as the Criterion will be open together as soon as the weather will give opportunity for completing the little more remaining to be finished, and a large portion of the Foxton tramway is now finished, and trains are running upon it, though it is not altogether opened for traffic. AVith respect to the material used on the AYellington lines, I may say that on neither the New Plymouth nor the Napier lines are there any iron bridges requiring to be imported from Home. On the AVelliugton lines, the iron for several of the bridges had to be imported, viz., the AYanganui, AVangaehu, Turakina, and Rangitikei, on the AVest Coast ; and the Pukuratahi and Hutt on the AYellington and Masterton line. Tjie whole of the Foxton tramway is either laid with iron rails, or contracts and piece work have been let for the remainder. The iron rails had to be imported or borrowed from other lines—9oo tons were borrowed from Dunedin, and are iu transitu. A similar quantity is now arriving jier Avalanche, Commissary, and Pleiades, and the remainder has been borrowed from stock at AYellington. Now with regard to expenditure on railways. There has been expended to 30th dime, 1875, in the province of Taranaki, a sum of £55,165 ; appropriated for expenditure during 1575-6, £42,000 ; total to 30th June next, £97,165. Hawke’s Bay—Expended to 30th June, 1875 ; appropriation expenditure during 1875-6, £IOO,IBB ; total to 30th June next, £297,399. AYellington—Expended to 30th June, 1875, £328,155 Is. 7d. : appropriated for expenditure during 1875-76, £526,931 ; total to 30th June next, £855,086. Now that is not a bad result. That does not show any particular neglect, and remember these figures are correct ; they are taken from the Appropriation Acts, and cannot be challenged. On the AVellingtou and Masterton line £186,240 has been spent, and £220,000 more is to be spent. [Mr. Hunter then exhibited a large plan, showing the comjiarative lengths of tho railway lines constructed, under contract, or advertised, which was received with great applause.] If any one believes I am wrong, he may extract the figures the same as I have done audsetme right, hut I do not think he will find me wrong. As a supporter of the Government, I think it is but a simple act of justice for me to illustrate these matters, and produce satisfactory evidence that there has not been any neglect of tho province of AYellington, always remembering that one single fact is worth fifty theories. (Laughter and cheers.) Then with regard to the ordinary roads. For Taranaki, £75,421 had been voted ; for Hawke’s Bay, £70,214 ; for AVellington, £164,074, or deducting tramways now charged iu railways, £30,880, there was left £133,193. Mr. Travel's has complained that the AVoodville road is not fit for use, hut the road has all been formed, and tenders are now in for metalling, Mr. Travers, you know, says that one fact is worth fifty theories, but then he showed us on a diagram that the extent of finished railway iu AYellington is about on the map, as compared with at least ten inches on Hawke’s Bay and Taranaki. So ho is reported in tho Post. This you see by my diagram is scarcely a correct account. It might bo that lie was not correctly reported, but thou you know the Post was the authorised version, and it ought to be correct. Again, Mr. Travers said Major Atkinson’s speech about connecting Auckland and AYellington was mere glib, foolish claptrap, and that such a speech was simply scandalous ; hut did it occur to Mr. Travers that lie too had been speaking glibly, I won’t say scandalously and improperly, although some people might say it is scandalous to represent a tiling contrary to fact. Certainly there is no excuse for any person not being

well informed on these subjects, because evei’ything is made known to the public through the medium of the Public Works statement which has been published. I was glad to hear that Mr. Travers accorded praise to Sir Donald McLean. One of the chief reasons why I have supported the Government was that I felt the blessing of peace to be of paramount importance to the country, and I think his wise policy had been the cause of its being maintained. He also complimented Mr. Richardson, the Minister for Public Works and here again I must agree with him, for I think we are to be congratulated on having secured so good, talented, and able a man for the important department of Public Works. I think it is not possible to properly estimate the value his services have been to the colony during his term of office. Mr. Travers also referred to the Californian mail service, and particularly to the Torres’ Strait service, and advocated such a sendee. Now, Mr. Travers ought to know that the Government has been endeavoring to encourage that service—he ought to know that a Parliamentary paper was laid upon the table of the House during last session, containing correspondence on this very subject, and that if possible such a service will be inaugurated. Then Mr. Travers mentioned something about this colony being adapted to grow hops, and that the culture of it should be encouraged because we had no excise duty to interfere with us here in the export of ale, but surely he must he aware that in England the export is perfectly free, and that we should not be in any better position in that respect than the old country. However, I pass on to say a few words about,the Californian service, which Mr. Gisborne and Mr. Travers both touched upon. It seems to me that there is a very great misconception about this service. It has always been spoken of as costing the colony of New Zealand about £45,000 a-year, but that is not quite correct: it does not cost us that, and the best answer I can give to the delusion is to repeat the statement of the Acting Postmaster-General, who spoke on the matter in his place in Parliament, when the vote for the service was under discussion. He showed that the actual cost to the colony was no such thing. The postage collected in the colony is £15,000 per annum ; postages collected in London is £12,000 ; postages from ncn-contributingcolonies,£2soo; t0ta1,£29,500, i which showed that the actual cost or loss to the colony would he £15,000. It is a service I have always been in favor of, because I think it a good one. Really, people do not seem to understand these mail services. If we send all our letters by the Suez mail we should have to pay the Victorian Government this money, i they would get £29,000 postage instead of the New Zealand Government. At : present we have to pay so much per letter to the Victorian Government for the Suez service. Perhaps it may he £IO,OOO, and then we have to pay McMeckan and ' Blackwood some £SOOO for the service which connects. If we did away with the whole of the San Francisco service the saving to the colony would be about £15,000, and the other £29,000 would go into i the pockets of the Melbourne Government, ! under these circumstances I cannot bring 1 myself to think it would be wise to do away with this service. There is a strong objection ] made to the boats coming down the coast. 1 Perhaps the complaints are reasonable; at i any rate, I can say I don’t altogether approve of the arrangement, but yet we must : learn that Wellington is not the whole colony. Auckland has its interests, and Dunedin has ( its interests, and these we cannot ignore ; but besides this there are a great number of people j who say that Auckland is the most convenient 1 place. Indeed, Mr. Russell wanted to negotiate i for lauding the mails at the Bay oflslands, be- - cause that was further north. On the whole, I think we have no reason to complain on this head, nor on the score of more vessels leaving ] and arriving in Wellington. It cannot inter- i fere with us very materially. X find that be- i tween the 3rd November, 1874, and 3rd November, 1875, the number of steuraers that entered this port were 647, and 646 left; so that ■ twelve or thirteen arrivals could make but little difference to us. But looking at the matter in this light is not looking at it in a , national and proper kind of a manner, and I think we may be very well satisfied with pre- ; sent arrangements. Mr. Travers said that the j Panama was a private service, but it was i nothing of the kind. It was arranged , between Canterbury and Wellington and ] the Sydney Goyernmeut. The Superintendent of Wellington had a conference with the Superintendent of Canterbury, and the i service was arranged at a cost of £IIO,OOO. Certainly it was not successful in the issue, but , I confess I liked to see Wellington going in " with a little enterprise. Now, gentlemen, I wish to turn your atteution to the progress of Wellington during the past few years. It is 1 right and proper that we should look back and : see how we have progressed, and it is very in- ' terestiug to compare the position of Welling- • ton now to the position she occupied when we , were elected to he your members five years ago. In 1871 the revenue collected in the 1 province of Wellington was £71,606 ; in 1872 1 it was £82,653 ; in 1873, £110,341 ; in 1874, , £149,431 ; and the nine months ending September 30, 1875, the revenue collected was 1 £135,284. Then we might look at the exports and imports, and here we find a similar indication of progress. The imports during the year 1871 were valued at £432,793 ; in 1872, £516,565 ; 1873, £781,467 ; 1874, £1,154,130 ; for nine months ending September 30tb, 1875, £969,196. The exports were—for 1871, £264,886 ; 1872, £356,847; 1873, £500,564; 1874, £528,130; and for the nine mouths ending 30th September, 1875, £594,279. (Cheers.) These are facts which seem to me rather to rehut the assertions made as to the ill-usage this province has sustained at the hands of its representatives and the Government. (Cheers.) I don’t know that I have much more to say, but, like Mr. Pearce, I am very willing to answer any questions which may be put to me. With reference to any vote which may be taken to-night, you know the course which was followed at the meetings of Messrs. Travers and Gisborne —that a vote of thanks was only accorded—and we wish it to he distinctly understood that we desire nothing further. A vote of thanks will be quite sufficient, and we leave the question of a vote of. confidence to be given on Thursday week. We desire our meetings to go off quietly, and that no disturbing element shall be introduced, and therefore will follow the course which has been adopted previously. Thursday week is the proper occasion for a vote of confidence, and we hope we shall get it then. The real test is when you select your members, ami wo trust wo shall he those members. (Cheers, yes, yes, ami no.) I will just answer cue question by anticipation. I suppose it will ho put to me. I do not approve of a tax upon wool. It is true that there is an export tax on gold, but as far as this province is concerned we have notluug to do with it, because wo have no gold to export. The duty was reduced one session, as ill'. Pearce has stated—-sixpence—and there was an understanding that it shall be reduced annually to a like extent till at last it shall disappear altogether. But there is one thing to be considered in connection with this duty: it is an entirely local question, for the general revenue derives no benefit from the tax. Westland, Auckland, ami Otago alone participate iu it, and, therefore, that is a matter for these provinces to manage while the present system of government is continued. When the discussion was on in the House, some of the goldfields’ members declared that it was a proper tax, aud did not approve of its being altogether abolished, because they said it would be removing from the hands of the Wardens of goldfields the power of construct: iug works absolutely necessary for the development of the goldfields. In answer to Mr. Carpenter, who to know what Mr. Hunter would be inclined to name as the amount exempt from income tax should such tax be imposed, Mr. KiJ.vnai said : I object to a property tax, because I don’t think it could be levied fairly iu New Zealand. An Elector : You won’t go iu then. Mr. Hunter ; I cannot help that. If I ■ never went iu I won’t disguiso the fact that I am opposed to it. I won't atlonqit to conceal

that opinion. Many of you have known me a number of years, and you know I am one of those men whose habit it is to speak plainly, and that 1 won’t make rash promises, or give any answer calculated to lead you to believe that I hold opinions which I could not honestly adhere to with a regard for your benefit and my own. (Cheers.) An Elector wished to know definitely if Mr. Hunter objected to tax either wool or land. For himself, he thought runholders should be called upon to contribute to the revenue. Mr. Hunter: Really I don’t think the question affects us much in this province. There is very little run land in this province. I don’t know a single rnuholder. Everybody here is a freeholder. Down south it is a different thing. There leases haye been granted of large tracts of land for a number of years ; hut here the Provincial Government would never do that. The pastoral tenants could never get leases, and have always been liable to be tnrned out at ■ three month’s notice. Anyone could purchase at the upset price of 10s. per acre, and could challenge any laud by offering os. per acre, so that there is very little land in the hands of the runholders. What maybe the policy in. the future I don't know. Of course, there are large tracts of land in the hands of the natives, and this is gradually falling into the hands of the Europeans. However, property is pretty heavily taxed at present. As I told you just now, I pay £35 a year for education rates, and I pay double that for highway board rates. I don’t know whether you call that taxation or not. ' An Elector : How much land have you ? Mr. Hunter : About 6000 acres in this province. An Elector : Do you consider you are returned as a representative of a particular district, or of the colony ? Mr. Hunter : During the whole course of my political life I have always said “The colony first, the province afterwards.” I have always considered that to be the best for New Zealand, and I challenge any person to say that I have acted otherwise.

An Elector : You said just now “ Oh, never mind the gold duty, because we don’t pay it in this province.” Mr. Hunter : I did not say that. You seem to misunderstand me. I said this province did not participate in the benefit of the tax, that we had nothing to do with it because we have no goldfields, and that, therefore, while the present form of government exists the regulation of the duty was a matter for the consideration of those districts directly affected by it; we had better let them see to what wUI suit themselves, as it does not in any manner affect us. (Cheers.) An Elector : Just now you spoke of contributing taxes, but that is to the local rates. You, for your laud, don’t contribute anything to the general or colonial revenue, and I respectfully submit you ought to contribute to the general revenue for the property you hold. What do you say to an acreage tax ? Mr. Hunter ; I have given my opinion on that matter. I say distinctly I am not in favor of a property tax or an acreage tax, but lam not opposed to an income tax. If I derive an income from my freeholds, lam perfectly willing to submit to that income being taxed. (Cheers). I am quite willing to submit to a fair burden on my property. An Elector : And what would you name as the starting point for an income tax. Mr. Hunter ; Am I to bid for popularity? (A laugh). An Elector ? No. I think it is a perfectly fair question. Wages are double the amount here that they are in England, and I don’t think you ought to start lower than £2OO, with a discount of £l2O. In England it is £IOO, with a discount of £6O. Mr. Hunter : Candidly I will say I have not studied the question in the aspect now put to me. However, I will give it my best consideration if you put me in a position to do so. X express the opinion that an income tax is a fair and equitable one, and I appeal to those who know me whether I would put an illiberal or improper construction upon such a measure in respect of the amount to be excepted from coming under the operation of the tax. Mr. E. W. Mills proposed, and Mr. Plimmekseconded, —“That the thanks of this meeting be accorded to Messrs. Hunter and Pearce for their addresses, and -for the manner in which they discharged their duties during the past session.” Carried with much applause. A vote of thanks to the chairman terminated the proceedings.