PARLIAMENT.

New Zealand Times, Volume XXX, Issue 4534, 1 October 1875, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, September 30. The Hon. the Speaker having taken the chair, The Hon. Dr. POLLEN laid on the table further correspondence relative to the San Francisco mail service, and other papers. NOTICES OP MOTION. Notices of motion were given by the Hon. Mr. Ngatata and Hon. Mr. Edwards. THE NATIVE LAND QUESTION. The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE moved that, in the opinion of the Council, the acknowledgment by the Government, iu the purchase of native lands, of “ rights ” or leases, acquired by Europeans from the native owners, in violation of the laws of the colony, is opposed to all sound principles of public policy. It might he well, in speaking to the motion which stood • in- his __ name, to preface his remarks by a brief statement of what the existing law was regarding the dealing with native lands which had not passed through the Native Lands Court, and what had been the practice up to the present time. The state of the existing law might be found in the Act of 1865, and in the 75th clause, where it is explicitly stated that every conveyance or transfer in respect of which the native title has not been confirmed by the Native Lands Court, shall be absolutely void. Since the passing of that Act up to the present time that had been the law of the land, a law which systematically refused to acknowledge any dealings with native lands except upon land grants. It had been modified to a certain extent by a slight alteration of the law, in the year 1873, to which, however, he need not at present refer, inasmuch as that alteration took place at a time subsequent to the transactions to which he had called the attention of the Council. Practically, therefore, the position of the law was that all transactions having reference to native lands which had not passed through the Native Lands Court were void. Now, that state of the law had been thoroughly recognised by the Government of the country and the public at large ; nevertheless, there had been extensive transactions in regard to native lands which had not passed through the Native Lands Court, and these transactions had taken the shape of obtaining land for timber rights and pastoral occupation. These rights and leases had always been recognised by the one term, “ illegal leases," because they had been made outside the law, and with the full knowledge that, should the ownets succeed in passing the land .through the Court, and obtain a certificate of title, those rights would cease. The result was that persons entered on those transactions on terms extremely favorable to themselves, because the tenure being so insecure, they required to get the leases at a nominal rent in order that they might not be placed at a disadvantage. Hut the Government were not bound by these transactions, and this had been the prevailing impression throughout the public at large, that the Government had been saved from receiving an amount of pressure to which they would have been otherwise subjected to. Brrt while that had been the generally received opinion, there were others, more wise in their generation, who felt that were sufficient pressure brought to bear upon the Government, the tenure of the lands held might be made more satisfactory to themselves, and who, acting on that belief, had been able to obtain concessions which the great bulk of the native owners would not have thought of conceding. Now, it was not his intention to go into all the circumstances of the character indicated by the resolution standing in his name. He had, however, picked out two or three of the more important of these transactions, and it was these to which he desired to direct the attention of the Council. The first transaction to which he would call the attention of the Council was that regarding a timber lease—that was, the right to the timber on certain lands, which had been acquired by Mr. Thomas Russell and others, and which rights, acquired iu opposition to the law, had been acknowledged by the Government. To what extent this disregard of the law had been carried he could not say, but he had in his possession the particulars of three cases, and to these three alone he would draw attention. There were, then, three blocks of land, containing in all nearly 9800 acres, acquired by the Government and in opposition to the law ; rights which have been acquired iu the illegal manner he had described, by Mr. Russell and others, had been acknowledged by the Government. These lauds were situated on the Coromandel coast. They were bought on behalf of the Government iu the year 1872, and in the same year the conveyance was signed. It was signed on the 21th of August, 1872. Now, as hon. members would doubtless know, the Native Lands Couit had the power to give a certificate of title. Accordingly the Lands Court issued a certificate of title, without any restrictions, iu favor of the Government ; but on the same day that that certificate was given, an endorsement was made upon the back of the document by a person entirely outside the Court, and who had been negotiating with the Government for the purchase of land. The gentleman who made this, as it appeared to him (the speaker) entirely unauthorised endorsement, being Mr. James Mackay, junior. In the document he set forth that he had, with the consent of the Government, acquired from Mr. Thomas Russell, Mr. Wilson, and Mr. C. J. Stone certain rights, and that this land was bought subject to those rights. This endorsement was made on the same day as the conveyance was signed to the Government, and on the next day a caveat was entered on behalf of Mr. Thomas Russell and others, forbidding the Government to deal with those lauds. It would be seen that it was not in the power of the persons who claimed these lands, by any declaration whatever to get the lands into their possession ; but under the Act there was a power of lodging a caveat upon lauds, and that power they availed themselves of. It would be apparent to honorable members that in this transaction the parties claiming to have these timber rights followed the Government with the closeness of a shadow. On the day the laud was bought and conveyed, that day those illegal rights were endorsed. ’ He desired to say that in this, as well as iu the next case, he entirely absolved the hon. the Premier from any blame, because at that time he was not a member of the Government ; but he could not altogether free the hon. gentleman from responsibility regarding a point iu a matter he would now allude to. On the 24th Juno, 1874, these lands, in accordance with the provisions of the law, were declared to be provincial property, and the provincial authorities were authorised to deal with them, no reserve whatever being made. Well, last session there was a Bill introduced called the Immigration and Public Works Bill. The third clause of that Bill authorised the Government to revoke any proclamation that had been issued. This had appeared to him to be unusual, and when the Bill was before the Council, he had called attention to the circumstance, feeling that it would be prejudicial to the Provincial Government. He came to the conclusion, which could not well be avoided, that the clause had been introduced with a special object. That discussion took place on the 26th of August, and a pi'oclamation was issued on the sth September, only nineteen days after, revoking the proclamation which had made these lands provincial property, and putting the Government in a position forthwith to acknowledge the timber rights claimed by Messrs. Thomas Russell and others. He was sure he would be justified in saying that had the Council for one moment thought that that clause had been introduced for a special object, there would have been a discussion on it such as did not take place, and in all probability the Council would have refused to authorise it. This was all he had to state in reference to the first case, except one or two words more. The endorsement made as above stated gave Mr. Thos. Russell the right of cutting timber on these lands for a period of ninetynine years, at a yearly rental of 155., the area of land over which this timber extended being 9000 acres. In his opening remarks he had stated that according to the law passed in 1865 all these transactions were expressed to be absolutely void, but in the year 1873 a slight alteration was made, and that

alteration was to the effect that the Native Lands Court was authorised to acknowledge timber rights, but such rights were not to extend over two years. So that the Government, in deliberate judgment, determined that the public at large were only entitled to a two years’ right of cutting timber; and yet this party of gentlemen had this right conveyed to them for ninety-nine years. He now came to the next subject, and alluded to a parliamentary paper giving the names of persons who acquired lands. He would not go over, the whole of the items, but he knew some of the names given would not be altogether strange in the Council, such, for instance, as Messrs. Whitaker and Russell, Buckland, and others. The case, however, to which he should call special attention, was one of considerable importance. He referred to the money paid to Mr. Brissenden. He had seen this statement amongst others, that £3600 had been paid to Mr. Brissenden and others, as well as another item of £lsoo—he was not quite sure of the amount, but believed he was correct. It appeared that some few years back Mr. Brissenden entered into negotiations for land with some natives who were in opposition to the Government, and made certain advances to them. Having, however, come to the conclusion that he was unequal to transacting the matter on his own account, he took Mr. Thomas Russell and certain other gentlemen in as partners, and after a time steps were taken to have the land surveyed. The natives in that locality were extremely indignant; but the company were determined to have the laud at all hazards, and sent surveyors on the land. And, as had been stated by no mean authority—the Premier himself having testified to the factthey sent surveyors, guarded by a body of armed men numbering over one hundred. The excitement in the district was intense. The natives were prepared to commence hostilities, and they did what, in our calm judgment, must appear justifiable—they took the life of one of the persons engaged on the survey, named Sullivan. The Government were alarmed, and interfered at once to put a stop to the negotiations. They had, by the Immigration and Public Works Act, power in their hands ; they could have issued a proclamation saying, “We absolutely forbid you to go on iu this matter, as you are jeopardising the peace of the colony." That was the power they possessed, and had they adopted that course, the colony would undoubtedly have supported them. But there was a power greater than the Government, a power behind the throne greater than the throne itself ; and in face of the parties connected with this transaction, he had no hesitation in saying that the Government could scarcely take action. So instead of exercising the power they were possessed of, they paid over to these parties the money that had been advanced; they took the man into their confidence who had brought the country to the brink of a war of races; they placed him in receipt of a salary of several hundred pounds a year; and up till recently this gentleman had been engaged in the employ of the Government, and in the possession of their confidence. Now, he would only remark upon this further, that if the Government thus took into their employ one whose actions had all but led to an infringement of the peace of the colony, was it surprising that he should take advantage of his position. He now came to the last of the three cases to which he had called attention. A good deal of information connected with this subject might be found iu a parliamentary paper, C 6. The parties interested in this affair were not the same as those mentioned in connection with the last. It was true the name of Mr. Russell did appear likewise in connection with these proceedings, but it might be well for hon. members to know that it was not Mr. Thomas Russell. (Dr. Pollen ; Hear, hear; and laughter.) This gentleman’s name happened to be James Russell. The transaction was in connection with the Murimotu block. The land had long been coveted by these gentlemen, as well as by many who were agricultural settlers, for it bore the reputation of being, without exception, the best piece of country in the North Island of New Zealand. Negotiations had at different times been entered into by various persons with the owners of the soil, with a view to getting possession of it for occupation. The attention of the Provincial Government was directed to this matter some two or three years ago, and they applied to the Native Minister for authority to negotiate with the natives, iu order to acquire the land for purposes of settlement. The Provincial Government were authorised by the Native Minister to take steps for the acquisition of this land, and they forthwith engaged Mr. Bullerto represent them as agent. Mr. Buller entered into negotiations with the natives, but he discovered at the outset of his operations that his efforts to acquire this land were being thwarted by other parties who were treating for the same piece, and who on every occasion outbid him. The result was that the Provincial Government were driven out of the field in a very short time. Now, it was in the power of the General Government, seeing that the land was wanted for actual possession, to have issued a proclamation forbidding outside people from competing ; but this they did not do. They allowed those persons (who were acting as General Government agents) to continue their operations, which they brought to a successful issue by driving out the Provincial Government agent. Having acquired the land however, these persons found that they were still in an uns itisfactory position. It was in their power to obtain a lease, but the lease being illegal, they would not have had sufficient security of tenure. They therefore put themselves in communication with the General Government, proposing that the Government should lease this land from the natives, and then re-lease it to them for the purpose of pasture. It would appear that considerable negotiations took place, and the result was that an agreement was made on the sth of March, 1873. The party undertook to give up to the Government all interest possessed by them, and not to compete with them for the future in the aquisition of lands ; and iu consideration of this, the Government stipulated that in case the Government should acquire the land, these parties should have a lease under them; that they should have three-fourths of the land acquired under lease, the rest to be given up for settlement. The next proviso was of a character no less extraordinary—that the Government should pay these persons all the money they had expended in negotiating for this land; in other words, they were to be compensated for the money expended iu thwarting the Government. The Government did secure the land according to the terms of an agreement passed at a meeting held on the 2nd September, 1874. He might say that so certaio did these gentleman appear as to the security of their title that they forthwith sent up sheep tooccupy the ground, and this was in direct opposition to a memorandum sent by the Native Minister to Dr. Pollen, against the propriety of such a course. The Native Minister said, “It null, however, be necessary, iu the event of their displaying undue haste in putting cattle or sheep on Murimotu, to restrain them from doing so until all the native owners are agreed on the subject.” It appeared that the natives had agreed, for the sheep were sent up. Subsequently, however, another native meeting was held, “and presided over fey Major Kemp, as representing claimants to the Murimotu block. At that meeting one of the claimants said : “This is the first I ever heard of the subject of the lease of Rangiwaea. The only lease I know of is that of the Uruanui block of 40,000 acres." And more, Mr. Booth, in reporting this meeting, said : “ The natives, with one or two exceptions, are unanimous iu declaring that there had been no agreement whatever to lease the blocks known as the surveyed block and the Rangawaea block to the company.” And he then wont, on to say that Mr. Russell had said there was a verbal agreement with some of the natives. (Mr. Waterhouse read further extracts in connection with the native meeting, and read, amid the laughter of hon. members, a report of what Mr. Moorhouse had said on that occasion.) What he wished to show, was, .that there had been a most objectionable mode of dealing with these lands and of recognising illegal rights and leases, and such a mode of transacting the business was

to be deprecated. It was tbe bounden duty of tbe Government to uphold the law of the land. They should be the first to respect the law, and make it a terror to evildoers. If the Government failed in this important function, it would do more to demoralise the community than could be compensated for by any advantage,' gained by, the acquisition of land. Such a' state of things as he had pointed out was opposed to all sound principles of public policy. If the Government bought off one person, the very effect of that was to cause another, equally unscrupulous, to spring up in his stead. But by-taking a decided stand towards one, they would prevent others from carrying on the same practices. These practices grew in proportion to their encouragement, and from what had taken place in the past, it was quite evident that cases for strict investigation were presented. The injurv done recoiled on the Government themselves, however, for it was impossible to touch pitch without becoming defiled ; and the Government could not employ adventurers without their own fair fame being called in question. The Government, as it appeared to him, were perfectly incapable of doing a wrong action for their own personal benefit ; but when tbe public saw that they employed gentlemen who would not scruple at the employment of any means to attain their ends, it was not unnatural that the public should fail to draw a distinction between the Government and tbe men whom they employed- Booking at the subject in another light, the recognition of claims in one case and not in another was extremely unfair. There were in Hawke’s Bay, Wellington, and Auckland large numbers of persons who held lands under these illegal leases. How, it appeared to him that if the Government acknowledged the rights of three or four, they should acknowledge the rights of all. In conclusion, he said he had shown the existence of a state of things calculated to bring the Government into disrepute. He hoped, therefore, that the Government would take some decided stand, and form a resolution that this should be the last session that the public should hear anything of the kind. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said his hon. friend had treated the Council to a long disquisition upon what he (Dr. Pollen) was now bound to look upon as the policy of the Government in acquiring native lands. His hon. friend had ‘absolved Ministers personally from any suspicion in his mind of being actuated by any other than public motives. This being so, as be had before stated he should look upon the discussion as merely affecting the administrative policy of the Government with respect to these lands. Now, the hon. gentleman had set out with an assumption which was absolutely "erroneous, viz., that the Government had the power to prevent private individuals dealing with-the natives and negotiating with them for the purchase of the land. This was an incorrect supposition; the Government could not prevent such transactions. When this land was required the Government had to secure it on terms most beneficial to the interests of the colony. The consequence was that where a number of persons were in treaty with the natives for the purchase of land which the Government required, there was more difficulty in obtaining the land, and tbe price was increased. In reference to tbe land purchase in the North Island, he had to say that the Legislature had decided that land should be purchased by the Government so as to secure a landed estate being acquired in the North Island—the Legislature had placed funds at the disposal of the Government for the purpose—and therefore the Government had proceeded to purchase land of such.qualify) of such extent, and upon such terms, as to them seemed’best for the interest of the colony. - 1 In doing that they had been obliged to recognise facts, and to regard the interests of individuals as well as to study the interests of the colony. Every member of the Council would see the justice of such a principle; yet that was all that had been done, and he was prepared to prove his assertion. Had they done anything less than this they would have been censurable for neglect of duty bad they upon sentimental grounds declined to recognise facts, declined to have dealt in land because Europeans had an interest in them, such a coarse would have been characterised as the grossest absurdity, and the Ministry would have been called fools. His hon. friend had referred to a transaction whicn he had called a notorious instance of how the Government had misbehaved themselves, viz., the block with which the sawmills company had been connected, and in the course of his remarks had referred to a gentleman whose name had appeared more prominent during the discussion than he might have wished. Well, in respect" to that land the whole story was very simple. At the time the land was dealt with by tbe Government tbe natives had sold the right to the timber growing upon it. With that arrangement the Government had nothing to do, and could not interfere. After this came pressure from the Provincial Council of Auckland, to acquire the fee simple of the land so that it might be included in the Thames goldfield. It might be that the purchase was a mistake, but there had, as the hon. gentleman opposite had said, been a power behind the Government which induced them to acquire the fee simple. Not the power that the hon. gentleman had referred to, though—not the power of an individual or a private company, but the power of the provincial authorities of Auckland. It was well known that the timber bad been disposed of by the natives; it was known that tbe timber right was in the hands of a private company, and could not be interfered with, yet the Provincial Council desired the Government to obtain the fee simple, in order that the Provincial Government might get the gold revenue and the proceeds of miners’ rights which it was expected the acquisition of this land for goldmining purposes would throw into the Treasury. The land was acquired as far as it could be acquired, but the rights of individuals were respected, and he thought that there was little in that transaction to show that the public policy of tbe Government bad been opposed to sound principles. Then again, it had been complained thatthe Government had introduced into thelmmigrationandPublic Works Act a clause authorising the Government to withdraw land from selection, and the hon. gentleman had indirectly if not directly insinuated that the clause had been introduced with a special purpose, with a desire to meet a special case. The same charge had been made on a former occasion, and he found on reference to Hansard that in replying he had not given it so complete a denial as he had intended to do. He denied emphatically that there had been any such intention. The clause was intended to be general in its operation, and bad no reference to a particular case, but shortly afterwards the case of the sawmill company which the hon. gentleman had refered to arose, and the Government used the provision for doing that which would otherwise have necessitated the introduction of a special Act of the Legislature. It was said again that there had been a request from the parties interested to have the clause inserted so as to over-ride a title by legislation. He denied it, and would inform the Council that a note had been received from a private individual on a totally different subject, containing a request which the Government had declined, and there had been no violation of the law in any respect. He next referred to the transaction connected with a piece of land at the Waikato, and said the circumstances fully justified the action the Government had taken. There was no use in the Government saying you shall not do this, and shall not do that, and putting themselves in a state of antagonism to the native race. In this case there was something which concerned the Government infinitely more than the mere land. He knew of his own knowledge that if the Government had not stepped in to atop the land agitation which was then going on in that district, there would have been a disturbance in the Waikato which would have been most serious. There were two rival chiefs with armed parties travelling over tbe block—tbe one attempting to Lave it surveyed, and the other resisting him. If this had; not - immediately been put a stop to, the Government would have had to pay not £3OOO but £IO,OOO. The Government were compelled to act as they had done, and in regard to that transaction .were quite prepared to defend their action on the grounds of sound

principles of public policy.- 1 In respect to the Murimotu purchase, he defended that on the ground that the Government were obliged to buy it, as it was the key to nearly a million of acres of the bqst-land in the. colony. Private speculators were negotiating for the purchase of 250,000 acres of this million acres, and had they been successful they would have gained the key to the whole position, and their acquirement of the remaining part of the million acres would have been but a question of time. There was keen competition for the land, and the Government, recognising the position of affairs, interfered aud made the purchase. _ It did not meet with the consent of all parties; but it was a good arrangement, and had removed a formidable obstruction in the way of settlement. All the transactions complained of were justifiable, and if the Government had not done as they had done they would have been open to just censure. In the acquisition of lauds the Government were obliged to use the perhaps imperfect means at their disposal, and occasionally had to depend upon those who were not the very best of people. When they found they had these kind of people about them, and with whose services they could not dispense with, their only course was to watch them. This they had been doing, and it was not possible for a Government to do anything else. It had been said that the Government should have prevented private individuals dealings with the lands, by enforcing tbe penalties of the proclamation of 1872, but that would not have prevented it. Such a proclamation had been in force before the Stafford Ministry came into office ; but they bad found the futility of the, proclamation, and one of their first acts was to repeal it. There was little reason iu these complaints, and if the hon. gentlemen who made these complaints had had twelve months’ experience of a Native Minister they would have more sympathy with him in the difficulties he had to contend with in the acquisition of native lands. The Hon. Colonel WHITMOEE said there was some element of truth in what the Premier had said, but still he thought there had been great partiality in the selection of those who had been indemnified ; in fact, iu some cases money bad been paid for worthless land—perhaps he might say £IB,OOO had been thrown away. In referring to the transactions, the hon. and gallant member said he did not wish to charge the Ministry with having been privately concerned in the land transactions, but he felt bound to say it was so, aud that he knew they were so concerned. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN trusted the hon. gentleman would give particulars. The Hon. Colonel WHITMOEE mentioned the Native Minister, and said he had acquired large tracts of native lands since his accession to office. The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said there was no reason why a member of a Government should not acquire land, so long as he did not further his own interests to the prejudice of the public interest. If tbe hon. member could prove that there had been any improper action on the part of the Native Minister, he should do so.

The Hon. Colonel WHITMOEE was not in a position to do that, but merely mentioned the fact that the Native Minister had become possessed of land. After further comments on the dealing at Waikato, during which he said he believed it would have been a great loss to the country if any disturbance had taken place, he said he should support the resolution because he believed that in the dealings of the Government, in connection with those lands, there had been personal favoritism, bad management, and bad bargaining. He hoped the matter would go further, and that there would he a committee appointed to enquire into the whole matter.

The Hon. Hr. MILLEE said the question, as now before the Council, was of such a nature that the Council could not form an opinion on the merits. The mover had had a long time to get information for making his charges, but the Premier had not had time to reply. He thought the debate should be adjourned. The Hon. Mr. EOBINSON seconded.

The Hon. Colonel KENNY thought sufficient ground had not been shown for an adjournment. The Premier had net asked for time ; he had denied the charges, and vindicated the conduct of the Government. He hoped a select committee would be appointed. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL hoped the motion for adjournment would not be pressed. The amendment was negatived.

The Hon. Mr. MANTELL then commenced to speak to the original motion, and at i o’clock the standing orders were suspended, to enable him to proceed. In referring to the sawmill company’s influence, he said that might have been behind tbe Provincial Council, aud proceeding in his remarks, said he hoped the time would come when they would not find a Premier rising iu his place, and saying a colleague could not carry on the duties of his department 'without employing scoundrels.

The Hon. Dr. POLLEN said he had never used the term. The Hon. Mr. MANTELL said he was sure that the dealings with the natives which had been carried ou could not have been carried on by honest men, and he hoped in future they would hot have a'Premier attempting to justify it. He should vote for the motion.

The Hon. Mr. BUCKLEY considered the explanations of the Premier satisfactory.

The Hon. Mr. WATERHOUSE said there was no material difference between what he had stated and what the Premier had stated. It was a mere matter of policy, and the Council must judge which was right. He condemned the policy, and the Premier defended it ; if the Council agreed with the policy they would reject the resolution, and if they disapproved of the policy they would vote for the resolution. Whatever were the he believed these discussions would have a good effect. The motion was carried oh the voices. The Hon. Mr. WATBRHO USE subsequently gave notice that he would move next day, that a select committee be appointed to examine into and report upon the circumstances under which a certificate of title was issued to Mr. Thomas Russell for lands at the Piako ; such committee to consist of the hons. Dr. Pollen, Messrs. Buckley, Holmes, Acland, Stokes, Hart, and the mover. , LEAVE OP ABSENCE. The Hon. Mr. BONAR was granted leave of absence for th e remainder of the session. THIRD HEADING. The Chubbin Land Purchase Bill was read a third time and passed. SECOND READINGS. The.. Government Apprentices Bill, Stamp Fees Bill, Oamaru Townhall and Gas Bill, and the Public Debts Sinking Funds Act Amendment Bill were read a second time. At 5 o’clock the Council adjourned till next day. HOUSE OF REPRESBNTATINES. Thursday, September 30. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o’clock. Several notices of motion and questions were given. Mr. REEVES asked the Minister of Justice if he was aware that grave charges have been made in the other branch of the Legislature, against persona who are suspected of having made a false declaration before the Registrar of Lands, in order to obtain a title to lands in tbe Piako District? If so, whether it was the intention of the Government at once to institute legal proceedings against the alleged guilty persons ? The Hon. Major ATKINSON, in the absence of the Hon. Mr. Bowen, said that the Government were not aware of these charges except through the medium of the public prints. He entered into an explanation of the case which had given rise to the charges, and said the transactions, in connection with it were straightforward throughout on the part of the Government and their officers. So far as the Government could see, no one could be proceeded against under the Land Transfer Act. All he knew of the charges was from the public prints, and on that the Goyernnient could not proceed ; but if the bon. gentleman who was reputed to have made tbe charges in another place, and who was celebrated for his accuracy and public spirit, would put

them so that they could be made the subject of inquiry, the' Government would be glad to assist him. RESOLUTIONS. Sir DONALD McLEAN moved, that for the rest of the session, the House at its rising on Fridays do adjourn to Mondays,, at 2.30 p.m., for the transaction of Government business only.—Carried. Mr. TAIAEOA moved that it was desirable that the papers relating to native land purchases in the Middle Island; collected and compiled by Mr. Alexander Mackay, should be translated aud printed iu tbe Maori language during the present year.— On a division, the motion was lost by 31 to 19. Mr. W. KELLY moved that in the opinion of this House it was expedient that all roads necessary in the Poverty Bay district should be laid out with as little delay as possible. —Carried. Mr. CUETIS moved that the House should to-morrow resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider of a respectful address to the Governor, praying his Excellency to . cause provision to be made for the sum of ; £IOO to carry out the recommendation of the Select Committee on Waste Lauds, contained iu their report upon the petition of Peter Kobertson. —After discussion, the debate was adjourned. Mr. SHEEHAN withdrew bis motion, that the House do forthwith resolve itself into a committee of the whole, to consider the report of the comissioners appointed under the Hawke’s Bay Native Lauds Alienation Commission Act, 1572. Mr. T. KELLY moved that it was desirable that the Public Petitions Committee should be furnished with a copy of the Attorney-General’s opinion on the case of the Wanganui Industrial School Grant.—A lengthy discussion ensued, and the motion was carried ou the voices. Mr. MAC ANDREW withdrew his motion, that there be laid before this House a copy of report (if any) forwarded to the General Government by the Auditor-General with respect to the administration of railways iu Otago by the Provincial Government of that province. — The Hon. Mr. Richardson read the document iu question. Mr. BRANDON moved that the report on the petition of Mr. William Swanson, presented to the House last session, together with the evidence and correspondence relative to the detention of the document therein referred to, be remitted to the Committee on Public Petitions for further consideration. —The motion was carried. Mr. BEADSHAW moved, that the report of the Immigration and Public Works Committee on tbe question of the construction of a dam or reservoir at the Teviot, on petition of miners at Eoxburgh, be referred to the favorable consideration of the Government.—The debate ou the question was adjourned. EMPLOYMENT OP FEMALES ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. DONALD EEID proposed the second reading of this Bill. Mr. BEADSHAW opposed it in a long speech, quoting from English aud Russian works on the employment of labor, in favor of the restrictions now in force, the removal of which, he said, would destroy the constitutions of many women. He considered that women, like children, should only work half time. The Hon. Mr. REYNOLDS supported it, stating the members of the Government held different opinions upon the matter. Mr. Luckie and Mr. Buckland supported, and Mr. Eolleston, the Hon. Mr. Bowen, and Mr. Thompson opposed the Bill, and it was carried on a division, the numbers being 31 to 25. REGISTRATION OP ELECTORS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. STEWAED moved the second reading of this Bill, which provides that clerks of municipal corporations, highway boards, &c., should prepare lists of ratepayers within theirrespective districts, and forward the same to the registration officer of the electoral district in which they are situate, who shall treat them as lists of claimants to vote. To prevent a person being placed on the list against his will, the name is to be omitted on an application being received from the person. The mover, in a clear and concise speech, pointed out the benefits likely to arise from an amendment in the law of registration, and asked that it might be treated in a friendly spirit. Mr. LUCKIE supported the Bill.

After a -few remarks from Mr. Webb, who approved of the Bill, and said the House and the country were indebted to the hon. member for having introduced so useful a measure,

The Hon. Mr. BOWEN said when the Bill was introduced the Government had a Bill to alter the qualification of electors, but -as that had been disposed of, the Government were willing to take up this Bill, although they should require a few amendments to be made.

Mr. CUTHBEETSON expressed himself as very much pleased with the announcement of the Government, but hoped it would not he supported in a manner like they did the Electors Qualification Bill. He then proceeded to administer a severe castigation upon the Government for the half - hearted lukewarm manner in which the Electors Qualification Bill had been treated by them. If the Government intended to make the Bill a practicable Bill, which would have an effect upon the forthcoming elections, he would be glad to see the Government in charge of it; but if the Government wished to discuss it as an in? tangible abstract principle, which might he reduced to a practical form some time during the next five years—if, in a word, they were shamming, he trusted the hon. member would not allow the Government to take it. He hoped it would be passed, for, it was of paramount importance. During his speech Mr. Cuthbertson expressed a doubt as to whether he should seek re-election.

Sir GEOEGE GREY said that although the Government had taken up this Bill ho trusted the House and country would never forget to whom they were indebted for the initiation iof so useful a measure—a measiire which he believed would prove a benefit to a large portion of the human race. Mr. LUCKIE : Who have been in existence in this colony for the last twenty years, (A laugh.) Sir GEOEGE GKEY, in further remarks, heartily supported the Bill, and promised to do all be could to assist in passing it.

The Hon. Major ATKINSON assured the House that the Government were in earnest on the subject, and would do all in their power to pass the Bill. Mr. SHEEHAN would prefer to wait a year rather than pass a law on this subject, which must be crude, considering the short time they had for its consideration. Mr. WHITE announced his. intention of supporting the measure, which, though it might not perhaps bo perfect, was a step in the right direction, but thought the idea of bringing it into force in time for the next election was altogether out of the question. Mr. MAY objected to the Bill on certain points. It did not provide for the qualification of lodgers, and it threw additional work, on the road boards, which had at the present time quite sufficient to occupy them. He should vote against the second reading. Mr. PYKE hoped the hon. member for Waitaki would withdraw the Bill. It made the qualification of electors contingent upon their rates being paid, and this is a moat undesirable provision. He should strenuously oppose the Bill.Mr. HARRISON pointed out thatby this Bill a large number of Chinese in the country would be given a right which they did not possess under the Constitution Act. Mr. STEWARD replied as to one or two matters referred to. He denied that persons who had not paid their rights would be disqualified. The Bill disfranchised no one. The objection of the member for the Grey Valley had weight in it. But he (the speaker) (did nut imagine that his Bill was perfect ; and trusted to its improvement by the Government., In reply to the , hon. member for Invercargill, he said it was highly, desirable that the Bill should be made operative for the next elections, because the next Parliament was not likely to take.it up. He hoped at least that the Government.would do as much for this Bill as they had for the Abolition Bill, and make it operative after the next Parliament met. The question was then pat, and the second

reading was carried ,oh the : voices. The Bill was ordered to be committed on 1 uesday next. ,

GOLD DUTY ABOLITION BILL. Sir GEORGE GREY very briefly moved the second reading of the Gold 'Duty Abolition Bill (No. 2). The Hon, Major ATKINSON said he need hardly say that that the Government would, endeavor to oppose this Bill, because it was one which had not in view the benefit,of the people to whom it was to apply. Under the Abolition Bill affairs with respect to goldfields were changed. ffhe whole of the surplus gold revenue would now be expended for the benefit of the goldfields, instead of, as formerly, for the benefit of the community generally. Ho might state that he had received from the Thames a telegram, signed by the chairmen of the three boards constituting the which expressed disapproval of the abolition of gold duty. , . Mr. T. L. SHEPHERD said the chairmen of three road boards did not represent the miners j they represented the ratepayers of the town. What the miners objected _to was that the duty on gold should provide revenue for general purposes. But he did not believe in entire abolition, and should not therefore vote for it.

Mr. BUCKIE said the Thames was perhaps the best representative district of the mining interest in New Zealand, and although papers did occasionally suppress reports, as he had felt that morning to his intense disgust, they did as a rule represent the opinions of the people in the district in which they existed. He then referred to an article in the Thames Advertiser, condemning the action of Sir George Grey in attempting to abolish the tax on gold just as the miners were beginning to feel the benefit of it. The article concluded by saying that such a course would result in the loss to the Thames of .£9OOO or £IO,OOO. Such a loss could not be afforded, and the tax as it existed was felt very little by miners. Mr. BRADSHAW would support the Bill.

Mr. BUCKLAND said the tax was was an exceptional one, but so far as the province of Auckland was concerned it would he most suicidal to remit that tax. The tax provided a reserve fund, for times of depression, and to he without that fund would seriously affect the community at large. Mr. WAKEFIELD expressed himself m favor of continuing the tax on gold. He thought Sir George Grey should have added a provision that the Bill should not come into operation until after the expiration of the forthcoming Parliament, since he was so anxious for the voice of the people upon all measures of importance. Mr. BASSTIAN supported the Bill. Mr. O’NEILL would strongly support the Bill. He looked upon the tax as a most unjust one, and had voted for its reduction since 1867. When they recollected that £30,000,000 had been exported from the goldfields, they ought to bear in mind that some consideration was due to those men who had done that work.

Sir GEORGE GREY in replying commenced by referring to the remarks of the Colonial Treasurer. He said he had devoted over a year to reflections on the subject, and thought he had given it as able a consideration as had the Colonial Treasurer. He denied that the goldminers under the Abolition Bill would be in the position stated by the Colonial Treasurer. The subsidies proposed to be given by the Government to the miners were taken from their own pockets. The great requirement was that those persons should be taxed who now escaped taxation. He asked simply for equal justice for all.' Let them introduce a system of equitable taxation, and good government by a wholesome system of economy, instead of that flagrant waste and extravagance which now obtained.

The Hon. Major Atkinson laughed. Sir GEORGE GREY: Derisive _ laughter would not aifect him. The Colonial Treasurer knew he was assisting to promote an unjust system of taxation in this country. He knew, moreover, that he was aiding others to squander the public revenues and public estate. Jeers and laughter would make no impression on him while he was stating those truths—truths which would be recognised throughout the colony before long. He felt that he represented the true of the goldfield with which he was most intimately acquainted j and in order that it might go forth who opposed and voted for the measure, he should force the question to a division. On the question being put, the. Speaker thought the ayes had it, upon which a division was called for and taken, resulting as follows : ■ —-Ayes, 18 ; noes, 27. GOLD DUTY ABOLITION BILL (NO. 2).

Mr. SHBPHKRD then moved the second reading of this Bill, for the reduction of gold duty to Gd. per ounce. Hr. HABRISON would oppose the Bill. _ If the revenue were taken away, with the subsidy with which it was proposed to supplement that revenue, the effect would be most disastrous upon goldfields communities. Mr. WHITE supported the measure. In all advanced countries the tax was not imposed. ■ ' • On the question being put, a division was taken, and the Bill 'was thrown out hy 28 toll. ANN HOOL) "GRANT BILL. This Bill was road ia second time and ordered to he committed on Wednesday. BLENHEIM GRAMMAR SCHOOL RILL. The Blenheim Grammar School Endowment Bill was discharged from the order paper, on the motion of Mr. Ingles. BILLS COMMITTED. The Invercargill Municipal Councjl Empowering and Waterworks’ Loan Bill was committed, read a third time, and passed. The Licensing Act Amendment Bill was committed.—Mr. Steward proposed a new clause, to the effect that females employed in publichouses should come within the 41st and 42nd sections of the LicensAct, whether they received remuneration or otherwise, when working after the prescribed hours.—After some discussion, generally unfavorable to the introduction of the clause, it was withdrawn, and the Bill was then reported, read a third time, and passed. THE WASTE LANDS. The next order of , the day being the question raised by Mr. SIODT, as to the disposal of the waste lands, Major Atkinson moved that it be discharged ; but on Mr. Ballance expressing his willingness to take up the subject next Wednesday, Sir Donald McLean said there would be no objection to adjourning the debate, WELLINGTON HOSPITAL. The Wellington Hospital Loan Act Amendment Bill was committed, read a third time, and passed. The House adjourned at 1.30 a.m.