Thursday, December 8th.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume IX, Issue 872, 10 December 1853, Page 4

Thursday, December Bth.

NOTICES OF MOTION. Tlob Provincial Secretary — First reading of a bill for regulating fencing, and. for the maintenance and regulation of ferries to-morrow.

FETITIONF, Jtfr. Ltjdlam, in rising to move the consideration of the Petitions from the Hutt relating to roads, was hardly aware in what form to proceed, whether he should move an address to the Superintendent recommending him to

place a certain sum on the estimates, or whether he should simply move an address leaving the Superintendent to fix the sum ; he wished to inquire of the Provincial Secretary the proper course to be pursued. The Pbovinoial Secretary in reply was of opinion the consideration of the petitions had better be deferred until after the introduction of the Road Bill ; he thought the decision of the Counoil with respect to the petitions would be regulated by the way in which that bill was treated, and it might 'therefore be advisable that the consideration of them should be postponed until after the discussion of that MIL Mr. Bevans thought it most desirable the *oad bill should first come before them, before •they came to any decision on the petitions. Mr. Ludlam was desirous to have the subject discussed now, and the question of money might be postponed to a future occasion, fie was anxious to protect the interests oi the petitioners ; the question involved a great principle, and he wished to elicit an expression of feeling on the part -of the Council, that the country people might know how their wishes would be met. It was a question that affected the interests of a large portion of the inhabi- | tants. The Provincial Secretary was perfectly willing to go on with the discussion, on the understanding that any decision on -the subject should be postponed. Mr. Brandon made some observations ex- | plaining the principles of the Road bill, and recommending that the bill be referred to a select committee, but spoke so low as to be very imperfectly heard. Mr. Lvdlaji said the petition fully explained the views of "the parties signing it. The parties applying had in view a case which occurred some year 9 ago when a road was projected from the Waiwetu to the main road in the Hutt, in which a large number of settlers were interested. * They subscribed, and requested aid from the Government, and an amount was given by the Government equal to -the amount of their subscriptions. The making of that road had had the effect of increasing the comfort of a large body of settlers in a great degree, and &c was of opinion the -Government should be disposed to afford aid where they found '-the settlers were inclined to help themselves. In many places in the Hutt produce was rotting on the ground -Wliere.if a road had been made, the settlers and colony would have been bene fited by the export of the produce. The parties had subscribed "half the sum necessary to make fhe Toad and were ready to submit to any supervision on the part of Government. No tax they would levy would be sufficient to make the road, the tax to be raised would hardly maintain the road in repair. Some of the settlers had to pay Is. 6d. per bushel for carrying their wheat half a mile, and unless something was done they would very soon drive the people out of the country. He was of opinion the Council should reserve an annual sum to meet cases of this sort. The^Puov. Secretart perfectly agreed with the hon. member as to the advantages which would arise to that district in the formation -oj these roads, the only question was -whether it should be an exception to the general principle. He quite concurred in the necessity of these works, but the question was the funds were to be raised for carrying them out. The further consideration e of the petitions was then postponed until after 'the introduction of the Road Bill. Mr. Renall, after a fewobservfitionson the petitions entrusted to his <care, agreed to the adoption of a similar course with respect to them.

ADDRKSI TO SUPERINTENDENT. On the motion of -the Provincial Secretary, die Council resolved itself -in Gommittee to consider tin answer to<the Superintendent's address. On the Secretary's -moving '-that the Superintendent's address he nread, Mr, Wakefield said, that the quegfian 'of whether -or not the Superintendent's speech should 'be read at length by #ie Clerk, seemed to turn upon the character of the answer which the Provincial Secretary was about to ask the Council to adopt : if it were a merely complimentary answer an general terms, which all might concur in adopting, there tiould he no reason for -having the speech read at the table : if, on the contrary, it were an answer which would commit the Council to the whole of the policy of the Superintendent's speech, then indeed every word of the speech eught to be -read now, in order that members should be fully aware of what they were asked to adopt as their own. It seemed a. pity that the Council should not have been informed, by means of a notice, of the character of the motion which the hon. Secretary was about to make. The Provincial Secretary was at a loss to know what notice could be more particular than that now given. He confessed on the present occasion he had no desire to entrap any members into any avowal of opinions' which should be given reluctantly. He was desirous that they should concur in some general expression of opinion "which, however, should not be a mere unmeaning phraseology, but would at the same time reserve some latituce of opinion to members. He wished the speech to be read, that they might catch its general spirit and compare it with the spirit of the reply. The Superintendent's speech was then real by the Clerk. The Provincial Secretary resumed. He would not detain the Council by passing encomiums on his Honor's address, his remarks would apply more to the reply which he had framed with a view to obtain the general assent of the Council. The House had resolved itself into Committee for greater freedom of discussion which was consonant with his feeling on the subject. In framing the necessary reply they were to decide whether it was to be a mere unmeaning address, or whether it should have a certain degree of significance, and with this view he would submit to them the draft of an address he had •framed. The spirit of the address exhibited the greatest candoiy, it was not written in a' careful spirit, on the contrary it boldly at-" tacked the questions which concerned the prosperity of the Province. He would advert to one point which would be some guide to* lion, members how he had carried out what"

he proposed. He had not alluded to a de- i bateable point, and he had refrained from 1 doing so from a regard to the reasonable doubts ] \of some members. He alluded to the tempo- 1 ' Tary financial arrangements by his Excellency i the Governor. He mentioned this that they i might regard it, not as a point of omission in the reply, but because it was a point which had I already caused considerable discussion, and might again engross their attention. He wished to reserve every freedom of speech and discussion to hon. members, and he thought ' the last clause of the reply fully accomplished : that end. If he apprehended rightly some observations that had boen made, regret had ; -been expressed that this had not been done at an earlier period. It was necessary that some expression of opinion should emanate from that Council in reply to his; Honor's address, and in compliance with those wishes he <had framed the draft he had now the honor to sub•mit to them. • . ( J

To His Honor <th« Superintendent — The members of this Council desire to expresn their, thanks for the speech addressed to them by your Honor at the opening of the first Session. They appreciate'the candidHoncof explanation and absence of reserve which characterize that address, and they Confidently hope that all future communications .between your Honor and this Council will partake of the same character. in accordance with this spirit they desire to return a reply that maybe accepted as a briet'but courteous and significant declaration of opinion. The members of the Council acknowledge the importance of the 3ubjects, and the value of the suggestions contained in your Honor's speech, and are prepared to give to the measures that may be founded thereon'their attentive, serious, and unbiassed consideration. They cannot refrain from. expressing their-Ba-tisfaction that a responsible Executive has already been established in accordance with your Honor s declared intention on that subject. They regard with particular interestthe imposition ofa Land Tax, as a means of obliging absentees as well as residents to contribute equally to the formation and maintenance of roads, and they anxiously await the'introduction of a Bill on the subject. They have listened with particular satisfaction to the recent purchases of land from the Natives, and they consider that no exertions should'be spared to extend those purchases, which derive in their opinion a great additional importance from the fact that a large number of smalßarm holders are now ready to avail themselves of these newly acquired districts. They concur with your Honorin considering that the half surplus of the Land revenue should not be retained 'by the Land Commissioner to be applied by him to emigration, but that it should be paid over to the Provincial Treasurer, and they further object to any portion (not exceeding <onethird of the gross proceeds df*the Land Sales in any Hundied) being handed over by His Excellency the Governor to the wardens of the Hundred for such purposes as they may specify —inasmuch as it would be unreasonable that the finances of the Province should ke burtheired with the payment of heavy sums for the purchase of Land, and be deprived of the power of appropriating the net proceeds arising-from the sales of such lands. They regard the introduction of labour eifher from the Mother country, or the neighbouring colonies, as a mafter of great importance, and one intimately -connected with the carrying on public yrofks, an 'object which they unanimously desire to see accomplished. Should any Bill be introduced for'the pnrpese •of raising a loan to enable your Government to carry »oii [ramignarion and public works, it will ■receive their favorable consideration, provided that they are satisfied rhat in the Estimates for •the Expenditure of the ordinary revenue <with •which it is -hoped such a Bill may^be accompanied), •a due regard to the economical expenditure of the' tpublic money has been observed. They beg to express their" cordial approval of *the jrenerajpolicy of your Honor as laid down iii | .your speech, and iiteir intention to assist in carrying out fhrtt policy so far as they may judge the 'measures-brought before them calculated to accomplish that end. Mr. Wa*ke field «aid, the House must have observed that he waited, and abstained as long as possible from addressing them. He had •done so with lihe hope that some members en- , joying more of the public confidence than he could pretend to, would have -spoken on this interesting and most important occasion. He had even hoped until to-day, 1 that there would be little or no discussion on this subject, but that the proposed answer would be such as the Council could adopt unanimously without any remark, save expressions of respect aiad compli<meot towards the head of the Executive. On more than one occasion, he had -begged that no lame should be lost dn returning a complimentary answer to his Honor's speech; for deSay in such a case was disrespectful. But he had always imagined that the answer-submitted to them for adoption would be -of a character to invite universal approvals and in that expectation he had indulged until he entered the 'Council room that afternoon. As the case was now altered by the proposal of an answer, which would make the Council sanction and adopt every part of the policy of the Government as voluminously laid down in the Superintendent's speech, it became necessary for them, he thought, to understand thoroughly what it was they were asked to do. As reflection during the recess, and the example of other Pro\inces, had not led his Honors advisers to propose an answer for which every member might have cordially voted without speaking ; and as' they had proposed an answer which some members at least, himself included, could not adopt, he would briefly state his objections to the course faken b*y the Government, and .submit to the House for their^decision what he deemed to be the right course. The first point to which he would draw their attention was, that although in all their proceedings they endeavoured as far as possible to follow the example of the British Parliament, and although, as respects form only, they were doing so in the present instance, there was a material difference in fact between their position and that of the House of Commons with respect to answering a speech from the head of the' Executive. In both the Houses of the British Legislature, the answer proposed by Ministers was always carefully fiamed with the view of averting conflict of opinion. But how was this managed ? It was easily managed, because the speech from the throne was itself always framed so as to be as unmeaning as possible. It was a common remark at home, when talking of a Queen's speech, that it " said nothing at all;" and this was observed reproachfully, as if the unmeaning vagueness of a Queen's speech were a defect ; but only by persons ignorant of the great utility of not pledging the head of the Executive to a policy, either particular or general, to which the Houses of Parliament might object. All persons, on the contrary, who were conversant with statesmanship according to the usages* of the British Constitution, believed that a

speech from the head of the Government to a legislative body ought to express as little as possible. A d&flferent course had been adopted by the Superintendent of Wellington, whose speech was more like that of an American President than of a Queen or King of England. That speech could only be noticed as being the Superintendent's alone, because, when it was framed, his Honor had no responsible advisers. He (Mr. W.) in noticing it as such, would say that he sincerely deemed it a very able and interesting document ; but it was very long, and it abounded in statements, reasoning, and proposals, which set forth a complete policy of government for tlie Province of Wellington, as well in details as in general. An answer echoing that speech, such -as wasproppsed to them, would pledge the sanction of the Council to every word of that voluminous and pregnant exposition of policy. Now, it was simply impossible that the Council should so commit itself unanimously. One member differed from the speech on one ground ; another on another ground; and some on several grounds. Byway of an example, he would say for himself, that he differed from that part of the proposed answer wiich praised the speech for its total absence of reserve. Instead" of praising, he could not but condemn, that reserve, or rather absolute silence, on the part of the Superintendent, which left them in doubt whether, in his Honor's opinion, this colony had a real, or only a sham General Government, and which left them completely in the dark with respect to the legality of proposed financial arrangements for enabling the Province to appropriate General revenue without General legislative authority. In other Provinces, these matters had been leading topics of the Superintendents' speeches ; and so the attention of the Councils had been called to questions <of the utmost gravity and importance. The reserve of his Honor's speech with regard to those questions tended to promote a continued suspension of General Government. He (Mr. W.) had by the last mail received a letter from Auckland, from a highly intelligent gentleman, who was known to most public men in New Zealand, which asserted that the course taken by the -Province of Wellington was " a heavy blow and great discouragement" to those who desired that a General Government for the colony should be constituted without delay. He could ■not agree to praise that course, as he should do by adopting the proposed answer, which implied that his Honor had practised no reserve on constitutional questions, and which declared that the House, by adopting the answer, intended a " significant delaration of opinion " on the topics and policy of the speech. The hon. Secretary himself had told them that in framing the proposed answer, he 'had intentionally left out all notice of the Financial arrangements, and because the principle of those arrangements had been the subject of differences of opinion in the Council. But if that were a good reason, ns he (Mr. W.) thought it was, for omitting to notice a particular topic, surely it would be equally wise to abstain from noticing other topics on which future differences of opinion in the Council were inevitable. And besides, by declaring their approval of his Honor's general policy, as was proposed by the answer, the Council would approve of those financial arrangements, any particular approval of which the hon. Secretary thought that the Council ought not to be asked to express. Almost every topic in the speech would bo the subject of future discussion ; and if the Council began by expressing a general agreement with his Honor, their rightful freedom of opinion and liberty of discussion would be very much curtailed. What freedom of opinion would be left to members of Council after they had set their hands to a positive and complete declaration of opinion in favour of his Honor's whole policy? For example, again, the proposed answer spoke with approbation of his Honor's statements with regard to the recent purchases of land from the natives in the Wairarapa. If he (Mr. W.) were not in error, his Honor's speech gave no correct information on that subject. With regard to the quantity of land purchased, various and often contradictory statements were current in public. At one time, the whole was said to be bought; at another time, only a small part By the last accounts, it appeared that the public had been quite misled by the first reports. He was assured by persons acquainted with the subject, that not even the intended site for the Small Farm System was yet obtained ; and that, at this moment, the Commissioner was entirely stopped by want of funds. If there were any foundation for these statements, how could his Honor's advisers ask the Council to express their approbation of the very different statement in his Honor's speech? He trusted that they would not think it necessary, in order to shew respect to the Superintendent, to pledge the Council to his Honor's speech, either as a whole or in detail. The hon. Secretary declared that he did not wish to curtail freedom of opinion, and that he thought they would be as free after adopting the proposed answer as before. But. that was like saying, " allow me to put these chains on you; submit to be fettered ; I would not for the world dimmish your freedom : you will be as free after you shall be" chained as you were before." What object could there be in asking for this sweeping pledge from the Council ? If the terms of the answer were large, general, and complimentary, and if the answer promised that the serious attention of the Council should be given to all the topics brought before them by his Honor, it would fully accomplish the object of treating the head of the executive with due respect. If they. adopted the usual course in like cases, and also presented their answer without further delay, they would sufficiently evince their respect for the head of the Government. J3ut the very different course which was proposed, bore the appearance, at least, of & wish on the part of a majority in the Council to force their own doctrines down the throat of the minority. He was far from saying that this was intended ; but the appearance of it was indisputable. If that was not the object of the official members, what was their object in proposing this unusual and unreasonable course ? Could any body suggest any other object as probable ? He (Mr. W.) regretted the necessity for this discussion in public. He had done all in his power privately' to induce

the Government to propose an Answer which all might cordially adopt; and it was only when, after he came to the Council Room that afternoon, and found that an answer would be proposed from which many must dissent— which could not be carried unanimously — that he had thought of sketching the draft of an answer consonant with his own views of the right course to take. He would not propose it as an amendment ; but, recurring to the Provincial Secretary's assurance to them, that his own proposal was made rather as a suggestion for consideration than aa a motion on which the Government would insist, he (Mr. W.) would submit his own draft to the Council in the same spirit. He would now read it — That an address be presented to the Superintendent, in the terms of this resolution, respectfullybegging that liis Honor will accept the thanks of this Council for the able and interesting speech which his Honor addressed to them at the opening of the Session, and assuring his Honor that they will not fail to take into their serious consideration the various topics which his Honor's speech has brought before them, with an anxious desire on their part to aid his Honor in giving effect to his aspirations for the welfare of the Province. No member, he thought, could object to such an answer, unless he objected that it would not pledge the Council to the Superintendent's policy, which, according to his (Mr. W.s) view, was its principal merit, though it also had the merit of being abundantly respectful and complimentary towards the Superintendent. In conclusion, he ventured to assure his Honor's advisers, that their assent to his proposal would conduce to the progress of public business. As a courteous and even conciliatory proceeding towards those who differed from the Government on some questions of policy, it would tend to allay irritation. The members of that Council, being fallible mortals like the rest of mankind, had a self-love, which would be wounded by attempting to force any opinions upon them ; and if, on the contrary, they were really left free and unfettered to think and judge for themselves, they would be far more apt to apply themselves to the prompt disposal of measures desired by the majority, than if their self-love were hurt by any appearance of dictation. For his (Mr. W.s) own part, he could see no reason why there should be much difference of opinion in the Council with respect to practical measures; and he was sure that a general disposition to work out the proper business of the session would be promoted by the assent of the Government to the course which he had taken the liberty to suggest for consideration. The Provincial Secretary said it was a common observation that a gift quickly given doubled its value, and he had no hesitation in declaring he willingly acceded to the resolution of the hon. member for the Hutt. If the draft he (the Provincial Secretary) had submitted to the Council was not in perfect unison with his introductory remarks, it was not from any desire on his part to thrust certain opinions down the throats of the members of that House. If he had commuted any error, it was in the miscalculation of opinions which he believed had been acknowledged throughout the Province. He could not help calling the resolution of the hon. member unmeaning ; he used the word in no offensive sense, what he meant was it was not significant. He differed from the hon. member in his ex planation of the speech as being aualagous to a speech from the Throne, the cases in hi-* opinion did not run parallel. Here the speech was not unmeaning, and he therefore w.is of opinion the reply should not be unmeaning. With this explanation he felt it to be his duty, as it was his cordial wish, to adopt the resolution of the hon. member as if it emanated from himself. Mr. Brown expressed his satisfaction at the course pursued by the Provincial Secretary, as he must otherwise have felt it his duty to vote for Mr. Wakefield's resolution. Mr. Moore said the ready and frank adoption by the Provincial Secretary of the reply just proposed to the Council, in lieu of that introduced by himself, precluded the necessity of further debate on the subject, he would have much regretted being placed in a position to object to the reply ; but it was so clear to him that the address proposed by the Provincial Secretary pledged those supporting it on particular points, that even if he agreed upon those points himself, he would not desire to pledge others who might not agree, and he therefore could not have agreed to that address. He had every desire to support the general policy of his Honor the Superintendent as indicated in his address, but there were points upon which he did not agree, and which would be debated as the questions came before them ; at any rate it was most desirable that members of that Council should not be fettered by a course of proceeding which at any future time could be calculated to raise a doubt in their own minds, or in the minds of the public, so as to interfere with the course they migLt might wish to take upon any question. The Provincial Secretary said in consequence of the turn the discussion had taken, he should withdraw the draft he had submitted to the House, and in its place would move the resolution drawn up by the hon. member for the Hutt. Mr. Wakefield's resolution was then unanimously adopted* The Council having resumed, Mr. Wakefield moved that the address be presented by the Speaker, the mover, and such other members as chose to attend tomorrow at such time as the Superintendent should appoint. The Bill for shortening the language of Acts of Council, and the Bill relating to fines and forfeitures were on the motion of Mr. Brandon each read a second time. Mr. Ludlam laid on the table a letter he had received from Mr. Tiffin describing the path from Wairarapa to Ahuriri, and gave notice of his intention to ask on some future day if it was the intention .of Government to do any thing towards making a road between the two districts. t , The Council then adjourned to Friday, (to-morrow) three o'clock.