HOUSE OF COMMONS.—Monday, May 3. NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume VIII, Issue 736, 21 August 1852, Page 3

HOUSE OF COMMONS.— Monday, May 3. NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT BILL.

Sir John Pakington moved for leave to bring in a bill to grant a representative constitution to the colony of New Zealand. But for the importance of the subject he would not have ventured to bring forward the matter before the House, seeing that he had been so short a time in office. He had, however, received such pressing solicitations to take the subject into consideration that he did not think it was right to leave the question in abeyance any longer. He felt that he would not be warranted in interfering with the subject, but that a bill relating to it had been left by Lord Grey in the Colonial Office, and that he had received valuable suggestions with respect to it from the Governor of New Zealand and other persons who had returned from, or were otherwise interested in the colony. In 1846 her Majesty's late Government had granted a constitutional government to the New Zealar.ders, but Sir G. Grey, the Governor, ..wrote an earnest letter to the Home Goverrfment against that Constitution, because it was not applicable or adapted to the inhabitants. In 1848 a bill was introduced to suspend the Constitution of 1846, and at that time the European population did not exceed 17,000, but it was now upwards of 26,000. The exports from the mother country had increased in the same ratio. That fact would be illustrated more particularly by the fact that the imports had increased to the extent of £10,000 and upwards in the year 1850 over the year 1849. TKe increase of population and of commerce justified him therefore in proposing that New Zealand should possess the constitution proposed by Lord Grey in 1846. There were however difficulties with which they had to contend. The right hon. gentleman proceeded to say that the New Zealanders were more civilised, better educated, and better acquainted with warlike movements than our own people; and he hoped that his right hon. friend the Secretary at war (he did not know if he was in the ' house) would consider these pomts, as they were' important. In legislating for such a people it ought to secure to them the blessings of peace, and to assimilate the habits of the native 'population to those of the European population. The great difficulty in dealing with the subject was, whether each separate community should have a separate legislature, or one legislature should govern all the community, and it was the opinion of the Government that a general legislature should govern the whole, «and that the country should be divided into six districts; each of which should be governed by a superintendent, and that that superintendent should be sent from

this country with- a salary of £500 a-year. | Besides the superintendents it was proposed to give a Provincial Council to each district, and that that^council should N be .altogether composed of elective members. (Cheers.) They proposed that the electors should be those possessing a freehold of £50, renting a £10 a-year house in town, and a £5 a-year .house in the country, without making any distinction as to whether the elector was a native or a European. He next came to a very important point id the arrangement respecting the provincial legislatures, namely, the subjects which they were to be restricted from interfering in. "Her Majesty's Government had proposed fourteen restrictions concerning which the provincial legislatures were not tp be permitted to legislate. And here there was a very important difference between the plan of her Majesty's present government and that proposed by the noble earl lately at the head of the Colonial Department — he alluded to the mode of dealing with Crown lands. It was now proposed that this subject should not be touched by the provincial legislatures* The noble earl . (Earl Grey) had proposed to give a power to the provincial legislatures to deal with this subject, but the government were of opinion that it would be better to reserve a point of so much delicacy and importance for the decision of a higher and separate authority. The fourteen restrictions which it was intended to impose on the provincial legislatures were as follows : Ist, that they were not to interfere for the imposition of duties of customs ; 2nd, that they were not to interfere for the establishment of any Court of civil or criminal jurisdiction, except those Courts already established for the purpose of trying offences now punishable by the laws of New Zealand ; 3rd, not to interfere for determining the extent of the jurisdiction or the course of proceeding of the Supreme Court ; 4th, not to interfere for the purpose of regulating the current coin of the island ; sth, not to interfere in the weights or measures to be used on the island ; 6th, not to interfere with the Post Office and the regulation of letters ; 7th, not to interfere with the laws relating to bankruptcy and insolvency ; Bth, not to interfere in the management of beacons or light houses ; 9th, not to interfere with the dpties or charges upon shipping ; 10th, not to interfere in the regulations for marriages ; 11th, not to interfere in the Crown lands, or lands to the title of which the Aborigines may lay claim; 12th, not to interfere for the infliction of disabilities or restrictions upon natives to which Europeans are not subject ; 13th, not to interfere in altering the criminal law of New Zealand ; and, 14th, not to interfere for regulating the course of inheritance for real or personal property. He thought it right to say that these restrictions were recommended by Lord Gr.ey and the Governor of New Zealand, with the exception of the restriction relating to Crown lands. There was only one other subject to which it would be necessary for him to allude, and that was the manner in which the Acts approved by the provincial legislatures were to receive the final assent of the Crown. Lord Grey appeared to be of opinion that the bills which had passed the provincial legisla-' tures ought to receive the final * assent of the Crown. Her Majesty's Government thought it would be more advisable to invest the Governor of New Zealand with full powers to give the final assent of the Crown, to any measures he might approve of. (Hear.) At the same time it might be better to give the Governor in certain cases a power to refer any particular act of the legislature home to the mother country for the consent of the Crown, if he thought fit. He would now explain the manner in which they proposed to constitute the central legislature. They proposed that the Governor should be at the head of the central government, and that the- 1 central legislature should consist of the Governor, the Legislative Council and a freely chosen Assembly. This was the most important point in which the Government differed with the conclusions which had been arrived at by Lord Grey. It had been the intention of Lord Grey that the upper chamber of the central legislature should be an elective body, and that each of the provincial legislatures should send three persons'* who should constitute the legislative council,. There was not, he believed, in any of her Majesty's dominions, a precedent for an elective upper chamber. Even in the province of Canada, where the power' of self-go-vernment and free institutions similar to those of Great Britain were carried further than in any other of our dependencies, no desire had ever been expressed in favour of an elected upper chamber. In the constitution, however, -which was proposed for the Cape of Good Hope, the late Governor of that colony had expressed himself in favour of an elected upper chamber. The peculiarity of the plan was this — that the franchise for the upper chamber was to 'be the same as that for the lower, but the difference was that- the persons elected for the lower chamber were to be elected from certain districts, whilst those elected for the upper chamber might be elected from the whole. Her Majesty's Government had no inclination to adopt this mode of election. The plan of Lord Grey was upon the system of a double election. He would not presume to say whether it might not be a good plan ; but he confessed that it was an experiment in which the present Government was not prepared to embark. They thought it far more desirable to follow the precedent set m every other British colony. Let the upper chamber be appointed by the Crown, the members composing 1 it to hold their offices during pleasure. As far as the elections to the provincial legislatures were concerned, it was proposed that they should remain as before, but that -the duration of each Parliament of the central legislature should be for five years. The Governor of the colony had i ecommended two years for the existence of the provincial legislature ; but this" was considered too s"hort a period, so it was proposed by this bill that the provincial legislatures should last for four years, and that the central legislature should last for five years. It was also proposed that the legislative council should consist of not less than nine persons. The constitution of the upper chamber was to be' left "in part to the discretion of the Governor, but the num1 ber was not to be less than ten nor more than j fifteen persons. The elective assembly was to !be raised from a minimum of twenty-five, but not to exceed a maximum of forty. The' acts of the central legislature were to over-ride the

acts of the provincial legislatures, and no act of the latter could he independent of the sane-* tion and concurrence of the former. They also proposed there should he a" civil list reserved. The present civil list of New Zealand" was £12,000 a- year, and they, proposed that it should he retained. They did not propose to increase it, but they believed they could prdyide for the salaries of the superintendents of provinces from other sources, .without calling 1 upon the civil list. There was also a sunrof £7000 reserved for whaj: were called " native purposes," and it was intended to continue * .this for the benefit of the native tribes, for the construction and maintenance of schools, for the payment of resident magistrates, and for making presents to the native chiefs in acknowledgment of their services. There, was also a , power to be reserved to the central legislature for the management of Crown lands. This was _ a deviation from the practice pursued in Australia and other places ; but they proposed to - give it in the case of New Zealand from the belief that the central legislature would be best able to deal with the subject. It was scarcely necessary for him to call the attention of the bouse to the complicated nature of the existing arrangements with respect to land in New Zealand. (Hear, hear.) The house could not have forgotten the claims of the.New Zealand Company, and also the powers which had been given, to the Canterbury Association. These claims were guaranteed by Acts of Farliament. They were claims which tended very much to complicate the land question, but the Government did not seek for any powers to over-ride them* or to set aside existing right". There was another power to be given to the central legislature, and which he considered to be of the greatest importance. It was necessary to look forward to the gradual increase of the population and the prosperity of the colony. The Government could not venture to hope that a system similar to that which" they had now laid down could be regarded as a general settlement ;of the difficult questions as to the best manner in which the residents of the colony might conduct their own affairs. They could only look upon it as the commencement of a system, and therefore they intended to introduce clauses to enablethe legislature of New Zealand tomakesuch alterations and changes iv the institutions as they might deem desirable. (Hear, hear.) Having now moved for leave to bring in the bill, he had redeemed the pledge given by the Government that no unnecessary delay should be made in dealing with the subject. It would remain for the house to decide whether — after the expla* nation he had given— they thought the bill came fairly and reasonably within the category of necessary measures to which the Government had pledged itself to confine its exertions in the present session. He submitted this question fairly and frankly to the house. His own opinion was that it came fairly within that category, but if the house thought otherwise the Government would bow to its decision. The Government did not intend that the present bill should interfere with the municipal institutions recommended by Lord Grey, and which were part of the Act of 1846, but which were not suspended when that Act was suspended, because they believed these institutions ought to. be extended to the colony of New Zealand. The Government *had endeavoured to do their duty in this respect. They had endeavoured not to withhold from New Zealand those rights and institutions for which the people were naturally and so justly anxious; and he confessed he was sanguine enough to hope that the measure would not meet with any formidable opposition from any quarter of the house. Sir R. H. Inglis complained that no provision was made for the religious wants of the colonists, and recommended that a provision of land or revenue should be set apart for that purpose. He also suggested that the upperchamber should be nominated for life. Mr. Gladstone thought that Government had _ done no move than its duty in bringing forward this hill, and he hoped that no party feelingwculd prevent the immense boon of constitutional rights from being" at once accorded to New Zealand. He might entertain differences of opinion on -some points, but he would lend his utmost aid to Government in carrying this bill, on which he must express his strong opinion that it was a boon well worth the colonists' grateful acceptance. On the constitution of the central - legislature he should (upon Conservative grounds) advocate an important alteration ; but the bill, as a whole, did honour to the mover and to his colleagues^ Mr. Vernon Smith complained of being taken by surprise, and thought the introduction of such a bill an inconsistent pi-oceeding on the part of the Government ; and he could not agree with Mr. Gladstone, that it was only a question whether the colonists would consider the measure a boon, but must ask whether it would be a settlement of the qusstion. Mr. Hume objected that this bill did not propose to reduce the expense of the colony to the mother country, or to take the former out of leading-strings. The measure was not one of exigency, and need not occupy the house. Sir W. Molesworth said that if this measure did not pass they would be obliged to pass an act for the purpose of suspending the act of 1846 for another year. Now, to the passing of such an act he should offer all the opposition in his power. He was anxious that, the settlers in New Zealand should have as speedily as possible the management of their local affairs, both for their own sakes and for the sake of this country, being fully convinced- that Until they obtained it, no stop would ever be put to the immense expenditure of this country for the colonies. He had listened with great attention to the speech' of the right honourable gentleman, and although he should be sorry at that moment to give an opinion on the details of the^z measure, he thought it one "of the most liberal constitutions that had ever been, offered to_a colony. He agreed with him that there should be one central council ; he disagreed with him that there should be nominees. He agreed that from the peculiar manner in which New Zealand had been colonised, - that they should develope as much as possible municipal institutions, they should^divide .the colony into Isix provinces, and that each province j-hould have a provincial council with a 'presir ent ; but, m his opinion, the president ought to be elected by the inhabitants of the'province. " < Mr. F. Scott briefly expressed his satisfaction with the measure.

Mr. Philip Howard thought that the elective principle ought to be Adopted in regard to the Upper Chamber, and, trusted that nothing ■would prevent the' House from proceeding with the bill during the present session. He offered his thanks to the right lion, gentleman for the ability and zeal which he had shown on this occasion, and he should earnestly enter on a consideration "of this important subject, with a view to give to our fellow- subjects in that country something like ' English repre6enta T tion. Sir E. N. Buxton rejoiced that equal electoral rights were to be given to the natives. It seemed to him that the measure was a very fair scheme for the government of New Zealand, and would give happiness and freedom to the native population. Mr. Adderley contended, in answer to Mr. Hume, that the question was one of urgency. Give the colonists their rights, he said, and they would soon deal with their expenditure. Canada was the only colony which had anything like its rights, and it was also the only colony from which the Government had ventured to withdraw its troops. He could not help expressing his gratitude, and he was also authorised to express the gratitude of the colonjsts, by a number of gentlemen in Lcndon by whom they were represented, for the measure, and to thank the right hon. gentleman for having, so soon after taking office, addressed himself to the task. There were, however, two points, respecting which he greatly objected to the details of the plan. In the first place, he concurredin the observation of the hon. Baronet (Sir W. Molesworth) with regard to the composition of the'upper chamber of legislature. The nominee system fairly stank in the nostrils of the colonists;'and the proposal seemed to' favour the principle which had too generally been applied to colonial government, namely, the Crown, and nothing but the Crown. In the second place, -he regretted the very subordinate position assigned to the provincial legislatures. In fact, the central legislature was made the only one in the colony. This plan reversed the natural order of things. He should certainly have, given to the provincial legislatures many things that were proposed to be given to the central. He should even have gone so far as to have placed the management of the landed funds in their hands. The natural features of the country were an argument for each province managing its own affairs until the impediments should have been removed, and until the different provinces should have approached nearer to each other, and should naturally have formed one government. The best authority on the subject, the author ©f the work, " The Six Colonies of New Zealand," was of a similar opinion j and Mr. Deans, who was connected with Canterbury — the settlement in which he (Mr. A.) was more particularly interested — had told him that very day that they might as well put the central government at Sydney as at Auckland, or even at Wellington : for there was actually as much communication between Canterbury and Sydney as there was between Canterbury and Wellington. However, these were points of detail which might be discussed hereafter. What he wished to see was the principle of the British constitution applied to the colonists ; who, though far from their native shores, were still as much entitled to the privileges of that constitution as they who remained at home. (Hear, hear.) To show the injustice of the present system, he would only state a fact or two. Six years ago the colonists applied for permission to build a lighthouse at Port Nicholson, they raised the money, and the only thing wanting was to get an act passed ■ through Parliament. The house would remembei that the hon. gentleman the member for the West Riding, when dining in a wooden town hall in France, had asked the municipal authorities how it was that they had no better public edifice ; and the "answer he received was, that they had pulled down the. old building for the purpose of erecting a new one ; that they had sent their plans to the minister of the interior 12 years before, and that there they had remained ever sinee — (laughter) — that was 'precisely what had occurred with respect to the colony. The lighthouse was not yet built, and -several serious' wrecks had happened in consequence. The Canterbury colonists, though they had only just landed had already paid £3,000 to the central government ; but they could not get in return some small outlay for X moorings in their harbour, and the result had been that some of the most valuable" lives in the settlement had been lost. Such was the - miserable system of government. So long ago as 1845, Lord J. Russell, and the late Sir R. Peel, had both acknowledged that self-governE ment ought at once to be given. It was most creditable to the present Colonial Secretary that he had determined not to let a mere change of ministry, with which the colonists had had nothing to do, prevent their receiving a measure of justice ; and he begged to thank him, in the name of those who were now in London as the agents of the colony, for having so .ably and so vigorously addressed himself to the measure. Lord J. Russell expressed himself of opinion that had ministers thought proper to bring in a suspending act for another year they might bave done so ; but, on the other hand, having taken pains to investigate the subject and prepare a measure, they were entitled to tbauks for introducing that measure. "With respect to the measure itself, he wished to say as little' as possible. He hoped to be able to support it in,some of those points on which the hon. gentleman who had just spoken threatened opposition. There was, no doubt, a weakness which seemed at present to exist in regard to councils appointed by the Crown. At the same time the remark was justified, that such was the image of the British constitution generally established in the colonies. The chief thing was to establish a representative constitution ; and when that was* established, he avowed his conviction that, if there were parts of the constitution which worked to the dissatisfaction of the colonists, there was no interest on the part of the 'Crown or the House of Commons which would be opposed to the correction of defects. There were other pointswhich he thought were main obstacles .to the working of the constitution of 1846. The colony of New Zealand was not a colony where the community consisted of Briti&h subjects accustomed to the machinery of a representative constitution. In giving a representative, constitution to New Zealand, they were giving a

representative constitution to a country where there was a large number of natives. - The right hon. gentleman proposed, that where a native had the qualification, he should have the same right of voting as others. There were. settlements where natives would be found in considerable numbers, but_where it was obvious they would have no conception of the mode of carrying' on elections. On 'the other hand, they would feel it a great grievance if the assembly had absolute anlhoiity over them. That was the great difficulty felt by Sir G. Grey under the former constitution ; and that appeared to be the main difficulty which attended the subject. He thought-it desirable that the limits should be defined,^ over which the General Assembly was to have jurisdiction. The noble lord concluded by expressing his anxiety io see how that difficulty, which was the difficulty experienced in putting the constitution of 1846 in force, would be overcome, and by intimating bis willingness to support the measure. * Mr. Aglionby was strongly opposed io the placing of the lands in the hands of the colonists until they had paid off the debt. The New Zealand Company had a lien upon those lands. ' If they removed the lands from the Crown, the Company would lose its only statutable claim ; and he entreated the House. not to sanction such a breach of faitb. The only mode in which they could cut the Gordian knot would be to give. the Company a borne guarantee, instead of its present security. This would be the cheapest course, for, combined with proper reforms, they might save by it £10,000, or £15,000, a-year. At all events, he supported the grant of a constitution to the people of New Zealand. Mr. Gladstone suggested that the plan referred to as having been prepared by the late colonial government should be laid on the table of the bouse. * Colonel Thompson begged to offer to Sir. J. Pakington a still warmer congratulation than any that had yet been addressed to him. It had not been stated what was to be the qualification of the elected, if it was the, same as that of the electors he should be quite content. He did not approve of the proposal that £7000 should be expended for the benefit of the natives. Why should thfy be treated as children ? Sir. j. Pakington acknowledged the kindness of the house, and explained what he omitted to N state in his introduction, namely, that it was his intention to reduce" the next item moved, iv re-, spect of New Zealand, in the colonial estimates, to £10,000, that the following year it would be £5000, and after that be trusted that the item would disappear from the estimates, and New Zealand be self-supporting. He had been asked as to the limits to be assigned to "the several provinces. Sir George Grey, in. his last despatchj'stated that each of the British settlements had now attracted to it a surrounding population of the native race ; the two races stood to each other in the relation of "landlord and tenant, and were insensibly forming one colony. Many natives lived iti districts which might not be included in the different: provinces ; and it was to promote their civilization, by schools and other means, that the £7000 was proposed to be given. Leave was then given to bring in the bill.