Monday, August 20, 1849.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume VI, Issue 441, 24 October 1849, Page 3

Monday, August 20, 1849.

Present: — 1 he Governor-in-Chief, the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney General, the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. Merriraan, Mr. Barstow, Lieut.-Colonel Hulme, Major Matson, and Mr. Kempthorne. Mr. Merrimau presented a petition from 177 inhabitants of the district, the purport of which was to draw the attention of the Council to the subjecc of the natives' lands, in order that the Government might be requested to allow the aborigines to dispose of them to Europeans. Petition read, received, and ordered to be printed. Mr. Merriraan also presented a petition, which, together with one from Mrs. Forbes, of Oneunga, was read, received, and ordered to be printed. Crown Titles Bill. On the motion of the Attorney General the Council went into committee on this bill. On the title being being read, Mr. Merriraan moved that it should be amended by substituting the words " Colony of New Zealand" for "Province of New Ulster." He believed, that unless the operation of the bill should be thus extended, the Council would leave itself open to the charge of partial legislation ; the only argument of any weight that could be urged against his proposal, was the absence of gentlemen to represent the Southern Province. He regretted that the other Province was not represented in the Council} but thought that was one reason why their interests should be properly attended to in their absence. He could see by the returns that many of the claims had reference to that portion of the colony, and he thought that members would scarcely be doing their duty, were they not to plead the cause of those colonists who had no representatives in the Council. Mr. Barstow thought that there were many good and, sound reasons for extending tbe bill to the other Province. His Excellency had referred to an Act of Parliament, by which the lands of that Province were vested in the New Zealand Company ; now he thought that one good reason was afforded, by 'his very fact, why grants that had been issued by the Crown previous to the passing of that Act, should be removed frum any shadow of a doubt, arid declared valid by this bill. Whatever was now about to be done in legislating on this long vexed question should be done as comprehensive and complete as possible, that no pretext whatever might he left for opening it up ag&in in future.

The Attorney General expressed his surprise at the amendment proposed by the learned member opposite. If be himself wished to prevent the bill then before the Council from ever becoming the law of the land, the course he would have to pursue, to effect that object, would be to extend its operations to the Southern Province. It would enable the various powerful parties at home, interested in that Province, to make out so strong a case against the course of proceeding suggested by the learned member, as to render I the ultimate disallowance of the bill absolutely certain. It would enable them to show to the Colonial Minister that a Council sitting at Auckland, without a single member representing the Province of New Munster, without any knowledge of the facts — suddenly summoned — 'had undertaken to legislate for that Province on a question of great importance, and affecting conflicting interests — not only in the absence of every member from the South — but actually when the people of the South were not even aware that the General Legislature had been summoned for the dispatch of business, and that they, the Council, were at this moment engaged in the business of legislating. When to this he added that the amendment proposed would entail upon the Council the responsibility of disposing of land which had been vested in the New Zealand Company by Act of Parliament, the objection to such an amendment appeared to him to be conclusive. The Governor said, that in addition to the reasons already given against what was now proposed, there was one argument of overwhelming weight. The Council had no knowledge of the state of Crown titles at the South — nor was the Government in possession of sufficient information to guide them how to act, for the great mass of the Commissioners' reports were at Wellington. But there were peculiar circumstances connected with titles to land down there that would render it extremely difficult for the Council to interfere. He would mention one case where much difficulty, would present itself. A body of claimants had 6ent a deputation to Sir George Gipps, at Sydney, while he was Governor of New Zealand, concerning their claims to land. An interview was obtained, and their case was stated, when a guarantee was given that their claim should be respected. Subsequently, on Captain Hobson visiting Wellington, shortly after his arrival the matter was opened up to him, and that Governor recognised it and caused his allowance of it to be published at Wellington, so that the parties looked upon the recognition as just as good as if a Crown grant had been made to them. The land they claimed was situate in the town of Wellington ; and relying on what had been done by two Governors in relation to their claim, they embarked capital to the amount of many thousand pounds in buildings on the property. Yet after all, a Crown grant was subsequeetly issued to another person, and the matter has since been tried in the courts of the country, and he believed was not finally settled yet. Now how would the Council proceed under such circumstances. His own advice was not to attempt any change in the title, because he believed that the alteration proposed would have the effect of utterly and effectually destroying the measure. After several other remarks from the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney General, and Mr. Barstow, the Governor inquired whether it was the intention of bonouiable members to press the amendment. Mr. Merriman withdrew his amendment, and the title was allowed to stand as printed. The other clauses were considered, several amendments made, and two new important clauses introduced, one by the Governor and the other by Mr. Barstow, which were taken charge of by the Attorney General, to be drafted into the bill. The last clause, which would postpone the commencement of the operation of the Ordidance until it received the Royal assent, was allowed to stand over until the Governor would see in what shape the bill should come out of committee. Committee adjourned.

Appropriation Bill. On the motion of the Colonial Treasurer, Council resumed in committee on this Bill. Mr. Merriman, as the road department came on first for consideration, moved an adjournment until the returns he had moved for should be placed on the table. And that in the absence of the honourable member, (Mr. Kempthorne,, who had just left the Council) the items of schools could hardly be proceeded with, as he had evinced a desire to interest himself in (hat item. The Governor said the returns were in course of preparation, but the estimates might be proceeded with. Considering the number and nature of the returns that had been called for since the Council met, the wonder was how they were prepared within the time. It took no small degree of exertion to produce them so promptly.

Mt. Bar Stow was opposed to proceeeding further with the Estimates until the return relative to horses, that he had moved for, was ' on the table, The Governor said that the return mentioned should be produced, although he could hardly see for what purpose it was wanted. The funds from which the horses had been purchased were not funds belonging to the -colorty ; and strictly speaking, the Council 'bad no right lo interfere with the ■control of them. A large amount of money had been placed at his disposal by Parliament for special purposes in the colony, and he alone was responsible for the management of it. The ■colony bad paid no part of tb« money expended in the purchase of the horses alluded ( to ; they were bought out of British funds for the use of the road department ; and when it was thought expedient to reduce that establishment, two pair of horses and drays were handed over to the public schools established ■in the colony, rather than they should be sold for a triflirg consideration. They had been merely transferred from one important public service to another. Mr. Merriman said that, as he had been charged with rashness on a former occasion, 'when making some remarks on the road department, he thought it right that he should have the returns in his hand before he would •offer any further observations on the work that had been performed by that department. The Governor thought that, considering the liberality of the Home Government in placing at the disposal of the Governor of this colony, simply at his instigation and by his request, ] such large sums of money to enable him to •undertake an enterprise of such magnitude and importance, it was a want of generosity j on the part of the members to lose sight of the greatness of that enterprise, and stoop to the review of mere petty details. He thought that the members of that Council would pay i but very little respect to their own dignity by descending from the position wh^ch they should maintain in relation to matters of such high importance, to attack the paltry details of the working of it, or by allowing themselves to be made parties to such a scheme. However, the returns which had been called for should be •duly published. The committee then adjourned until Tuesday. Several notices of motion were then given, and the Council adjourned until two o'clock on Tueiday. |