Tuesday, May 29, 1849.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume V, Issue 400, 2 June 1849, Page 2

Tuesday, May 29, 1849.

The Council met at 2 p.m. Tlie Colonial Secretary (in the absence of the Colonial Treasurer) moved that the sum cf £82 be appropriated for the Public Works department. Mr. Hickson said his Excellency had stated on a former occasion that the Government House, together wuh the gardener and forage were allowed him Ly Sir G. Grey in lieu of £400 which had been allotted to him l>y the Lords of the Treasury for these purposes. Now as a sum exceeding £3000 had been spent on the domain, which was equal to nearly 8 years advance cf the allowance, he thought that his Excellency was not entitled to the allowance for a gardener and lie would therefore move that the item be expunged. Mr. Moore seconded the motion. His Excellency was about to put tbe amendment, when Dr. Greenwood said that considering the very moderate salary which his Excellency received, he did not tit ink he was bound to keep up the government buildings or domain but tnat the charge should fall on the public funds. He should vo.e against the amendment. The Lieutenant-Governor said that prior to the observations of the hon. member (Dr. Greenwood) he had not intended to make any remarks on the subject. He would however simply state that he Lelieved it to be the custom iv all the colonies to allow a government gardener, and he thought that with a salary of £800 a year it would be quite out ot his power to meet such an expense. Whatever the Council thought proper he was willing to acquiesce in. The Attorney-General agreed with the hon. member (Dr. Greenwood), in fact he had heard no argument in support of the amendment. One member got up and said the 1 item ought to be expunged, and the other siid for the same reasons he seconded the motion.' It appeared to him that the expense ought not to fall on any individual. It was a public domain and the cost of it ought to iall on the public. Mr. Moore said that the Attorney-Genera! was wrong in saying that no reason hfcd been adduced. Tbe reu»ns were, that the expense

of providing government accommodations for his Fxcellency was disproportioned to the oninunt originally set apart lor tha purpose, and when they found that the sum a'lotted by ihe Lonls of the Treasury had been forestalled to (he extent of 8 years, he thought that was some reason for the strictest economy being observed. He did not agrne with the hon. Attorney-General that the public derived the full benefit from the domain, and although £800 a year was a small sum to maintain the dignity of the office of Lieuteuaut-Go-ve.nor he thought it was quite as much as the revenue would allow. After some further remarks from D". Greenwood the amendment was put and lust and the original motion was carried. On the sum of £822 7s. 6d. being proposed for the Customs dep nment, Mr. Hickson proposed an inciease of £20 to the salary of the locker, who be said was a person entitled to a superior position. He (Mr. Hickson) hail ever since his arrival in the colony be n an advocate for an efficient Customs establishment, with a proper number of tide waiters, and it gave him great satisfaction to see that there was an increase in that respect which was likely to afford the necessaiy protection to legitimate trade. After a short discussion the amendment was carried, the Lieutenam-Govemor having stated that the Collector of Customs had recommended an addition and that the Government were not disposed to offer any objection but would leave it to the Council. The Colonial Secretary said, that as the Colonial Treasurer and the Senior Military Officer were in consequence of indisposition unable to attend, he thought they ought not to proceed with the estimates in their absence, he would therelore move that the committee do adjourn and that the Council ptoceed with the orders of the day. Mr. Hickson, Mr. Moore, and Dr. Greenwood severally expressed their objection to adjourn on that ground. Dr. Monro considered the legitimate position of the Council to be, that the non-official members were an attacking and the governI meiit a defending party, and that the latter having only half their forces present the committee on the estimates ought to be adjourned. Tne Lieutenaiit-Governor would be sorry to consider the Council to consist of an attacking and defending party, as stated by the I hon. member, as the non-officials constituted a majority of the Council; he did not consider the adjournment necessa y. Dr, Gieenwood said that the proper position was, that the government should apply to the Council tor such sums as they cons>deied necessary, and that the Council should take care to restrain the government within bounds, but looking at what they had already done, it appeared likely that the two parties were to change places. The Council were to increase the estimates, and the government were to keep the Council within bounds-. The Colonial Secretary withdrew his motion. On the amended sum of £842 7s. 6<l. being proposed, Dr. Monro moved as an amendment that the sum be £742*-7s. 6d. He said tl.at he had no wish to diminish the salaries of the clerks, but he considered £400 too high a salary foi the collector. His Excellency said that the collector was the head of the Customs establishment in New Zealand, and his salary was fixed by the Go-vernor-in-Chief, and beiiig placed in the Civil List could not be reduced. It would therefore benectssary for the hon. gentleman to say which item he proposed should be reduced. Dr. Monro would withdraw his amendment hut disapproved of the salary being fixed by the Goveruor-in-Chief'and placed beyond their control. The sum of £710 ss. was then proposed for the Harbour department. Mr. Ludlam objected to the employment of natives in the pilot's boat. Mr Hirkson considered the natives incapable of rendering such assistance to vessels as might be required in very rough weather. Dr. Monro considered the natives, under proper superintendence, to be pxcellent boatmen, and by employing them they were adding so many men to the labour ol the colony. Mr. Hunter thought as the pilot was respot.sible for the efficient performance of his duties, he should be allowed to employ whichever he pleased, and the additional sum necessary in the event of employing Europeans might be placed on the estimates and appropriated if required. No amendment having been proposed the motion was put and carried. The sum of £619 10s. being proposed for the Medical department, Mr. Hickson wished to know if forage allowance was necessary for the colonial surgeon. The Lieutenant- Governor said there were frequently cases occurring in which the colonial surgeon had to travel distances of 7 or 8 miles iv cases ol accident or sudden illness. The Colonial Secretaiy observed that there

were a number of out-door patients exceeding the number admitted into the colonial hospital, and if the colonial surgeon was deprived of forage allowance he could scarcely oe.expected to attend on these out patients. Mr. Moore thought the colonial surgeon might require forage allowance, hut he considered that it was too high in all the departments. Dr. Monro would he sorry to give any vote which should impair the efficiency of the colonial hospital hut £819 was a large sum for the purpose, and he had reason to believe (from the returns published in the Government Gazette) that the cost of each patient was very considerable, he thought it might he under a better system of management, nnd t at any sum which they might vote could he made available for extending the benefits cf the hospital to a larger number of native*. He would be sorry to see the government provide gratuitous medical assistance for the European population, as he thought that with some few exceptions they were able to provide it for themselves. The Lieutenant-Governor stated that those who were %hle contributed towards .the expense of the Hospital. Dr. Monro wished to know if the system had ever been adopted of asking the natives to pay a small sum for the benefits they received. He thought they would be willing to do so. His Excellency said hitherto that plan had not been adopted, he agreed with the hon. member's suggestion, and thought tba», after a time, it would be cjnied into effect, but the Hospital had been so recen'ly established that such a charge would be likely to prevent the natives from frequenting it. Pie considered it best, in the first instance, not to put any check in their way, and when they hud learned the value of medical assistance they would he willing to pay for it. The item was then passed. The sum of £206 11 6 for the Supreme Court Department was passed ; and, the sum of £185 for the Registiar General's Department was also passed after a short discuss on. £140 being proposed for the Attorney General's Department, Mr. H'cksor. said the salary of the Attorney General was an ample one, and being placed on the Civil List, they could not touc 1 ) it, but considering the amount of the Attorney General's salary, and that he had also a good private practice, he should move that the sum voted for this department be £20. The Lieutenant-Governor said that, as he had before observed, thtre was no land office here as in Auckland and, therefore, the Attorney General could obtain no assistance from that department, he had also to draw all the Ordinances and to make fair copies of them. The Attorney General said that when the appointment was offered to him he was holding the situation of Crown Solicitor, at a salary of £250 a year, and he was informed by the Governor-in-Cliief that his salary was to be the same as that of the Attorney General in Auckland. He then mentioned to his Excellency that he should require a cleik, and his Excellency said that as there was noland office here, which was an expense at Auckland of some £400 a year, he would be allowed a rlerk, who would ha\e to diaw and engross the Ordinances. The Attorney General further stated that if the Council di'l not allow him a clerk that the Government would I c at as uteat an expense by having topay separately for the woik performed by his clerk, but which was not part of the duty of the Attorney General himself. After some further discussion the amendment was lost, and the original motion passe'). In the Resident Magistrate's Department two amendments were proposed, the one tost rike off the forage allowance to the Resident Maoist i ate at Waikanae, the other to strike off that of the Reside t Magistrate at Wellington, both were lost after a sho;t discussion. The items for the Sheriff's and Coroner's depaitments were passed. - In the Post-office department Mr. Hickson wished to bri. q under the notice of the Council the salary of the clerk. He had been in the service of Government seven years and for the last five had held his present situation. He gave the most unqualified satisfaction to the public in the discharge of his duty* and he (Mr. llickson) knew that if a mail arrived late in the evening he would stop up all night in order that the letters should be ready for delivery at ten o'clock in the morning. He would move that the salary be increased to £200 a year. The Lieutenant-Governor said that instructions were expected from England for the appointment of a Deputy PostmasterGeneral. Dr. Greenwood hoped that in that case the present clerk would be appointed. His Excellency said thai, would depend on the nature of the instructions. He fully con-

curred in what had been said as to the efficient services of the clerk. Mr. Moore thought if there was to be any patronage in the department he hoped the promotion would fall where it was merited. Dr. Greenwood said that waiting for instructions from home implied some desire on the part of the home government to make the post in question the means of providing a snug sinecure for some importunate or superannuated suitor, instead of the reward for services rendered in and Ao the province. Against such a misappropriation, or such a commencement of tin- introduction of the old sinecure system he warmly protested. The Lieutenant-Governor said he would explain how he came to receive the information. He had applied to the Governor- inChief to make the present clerk Deputy Post-nnster-General with a salary of £200 a year, and his Excellency had replied that he could not do so because he was expecting instructions from Kngland on the subject. The Colonial Secretary supported the amendment. The Lieutenant-Governor sai 1 that if the cleik receive! £200 it mi^ht be a reason fc,r increasing the salary of the Deputy Postmaster General. Dr. Greenwood thought: if the Council increased ihe salary they should come to a resolution that no other addition to the department was required. The amendment was then agreed to. Dr. Greenwood then proposed the following resolution : That in recomtr.pnding an addition of £60 to the 3ilarv of ihe chief clerk nf the Post-office, no further addition is requisite in the public service nf that department, and that, in case a Head of Department is requited, long service and efficiency constitute a preferable claim for promotion. The resolution was agreed to, and the amended item lor the post office cirried. The sum of £2273 : 1 : 3 was then proposed for the police department. Mr. Ludlam moved as an amendment the sum of £1868, omitting the forage allowance to the sub Inspector, and the two items for moun'ing seren men. Dr. Monro seconded the motion. He could not pronounce an opinion on the foraye to tlie sub Inspector, but as regarded the extra pay to seven men and the expense of sever horses, he thought if there was any country in the world in which a constabulary force would be inefficient on horseback it was this. With the exception of the roads, there was hardly any part of the country where they could go ten yards in any direction. He considered the force larger than was necessary. The Lieuienant-Governor said that the estimates only provided for twenty privates, and he need scarcely remind lion, members that in the town, to relic c those on duty, allowing only four on duty at a time, it would require iwe've for Wellington alone: the disposition of the others was as follows :—: — the Hutt, one; Waikanae, three; Wanganui, three; Porirua, one. If it was considered necessary to keep up the communication with W anganui, he thought this was not a very large number. The council had expressly provided that the Census should be taken by constablts, although at the time he considered it rather pioblematical. The mounted police could go to Wanganui and Wairarapa, and the latter district was an open country. If the force was reduced he did not see how its efficiency could be maintained. Dr. Greenwood said if he expressed an objection it would be to the whole ol it. He considered it as a military organization suited only to densely populous districts. In NeUon although there were only six, he thougl t one half of that expense might be saved if Government would appoint constables in country districts, giving a small salary of £5, and paying for their services when required. He should like to see the whole item struck out aud placed in the Parliamentary Grant. Mr. Moore said his reasons for wishing to see the items expunged were, first, that ihey could not afford it ; secondly, that it was too large an amount even if they could afford it. He thought it would not dv to strike out the whole item, as some police force was required in consequence of Wellington beitg a seaport and commercial town. The amendment was put and carried. The Council postponed their remarks on the appointmeutof a Colonial Chaplain, as the item being on the civil list did uot come within the present discussion. The Colonial Secretary having moved the sum of £85 > as nriscelhineoiis, and an amendment being moved on the first items, in the course of the debate which ensued the Lieutenant-Go-vernor said be considered the subject of such importance, that he should request one of the oificial members to move the adjournment of the committee, in order that the question might be decided by a full Council. On the motion of the Attorney-General the Council then adjourned.