LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wellington, Tuesday, Dec. 26, 1848.

New Zealand Spectator and Cook's Strait Guardian, Volume V, Issue 356, 30 December 1848, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Wellington, Tuesday, Dec. 26, 1848.

The Council met at 2 o'clock, All the members were present. On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, seconded by the Attorney-General, the Council resolved itself into a Committee of the whole Council. Mr. Hickson said he wished to ask his Excellency two questions ; under the third clause of his Excellency's reply he stated that he had recommended that a Legislative Council consisting of one chamber should be constituted in each Province into which New Zealand may be divided, to be composed of persons summoned thereto by her Majesty and of representatives elected thereto by the electors oi the Province, in which chamber the Governor should not have a seat. He wished to know what was to regulate the number of ex officio members in this Council ? Under the 4th head his Excellency had stated he had recommended that the General Assembly should possess in full the ample powers of legislation which are usually conferred on such assemblies. He wished to ask what would be the powers of the General Assembly, and whether it would have power to place its veto on any bill passed by the Provincial Councils ? His Excellency in reply to the firs question stated, that it was proposed to establish one Council in each Province into which New Zealand was now or might hereafter be divided, and that the number of members would be in proportion to the population of the Province ; in some it might be very small, and in others very lar»e ; he bad therefore recommended to her Majesty's Government that the number, of persons summoned by her Majesty should be one-third of the whole, but that the General Assembly should have power i to alter this point at any future time. To the second question he would reply that the General Assembly would have full powers on all subjects, except those relating to the general interests of the empire. For example, it would never do for them to legislate on Admiralty subjects, it would never do for a vessel to leave England under one code of laws and to be subjected to a different code on arriving in the colonies. Many other examples might he given, such for instance as the laws relating to whaling. On all such subjects the General Assembly would have no power, but ia other respects they would have full powers. Secondly, he was asked whether the General Assembly could place its veto on the acts of the Provincial Councils. To this he would answer that he had not made any proposition, but the idea floating in his mind was to this effect ; that under the peculiar circumstances of New Zealand there might jn some uses be separate laws in each Province, whereas it

•would be more convenient to have one'gene--ral law, and in such a case the General Assembly would have power to pass such law and any contrary laws existing in any Province would, on the passing of such general Jaw, become of no effect, and in that way the General Assembly would virtually take from the Provincial, Councils some portion of their powers and eventually they might usurp, as it were, almost their whole powers Mr* Dillon Bell said, he confessed the explanation given by his Excellency of his views, were not altogether consistent with a full system of Representative Government. He did not consider it necessary that the Government should have any influence in the Provincial Councils. If the members of tha Executive Council were to be subject to election they might lose their places and the Government might be put to inconvenience in .consequence, but, excepting those members who were acting as ministers, he could see no reason why all the others might not be elected by the people. The Attorney-General said, it appeared to him that if the Council contained a very large number of members, one-third nominated by the Government might be out of proportion. He thought the proportion of nominees should depend very much on the number of members. His Excellency said, he would remind lion, gentlemen that it might be necessary from the state of the natives in any one Province, that (he Governor should have some weight in the Provincial Councils. The Colonial-Secretary suggested that the Council should adopt some particular proportion, he thought if there were not enough nominees to give the Government a majority that it was better the number should be as small as possible, and in his opinion one-fourth would be sufficient. Mr. Dillon Bell said, that with respect to the native race he thought the Government was sufficiently protected by the clause which had reference to the discussion of questions relating to the "native race. If a Council should be established in a Province of small population, the Government might have the majority as respects ability. His Excellency said, that he now saw that the only difference between the hon. member and himself was; that the hon. member had such confidence in the success of his measure that he thought the Government, had attained every guarantee they could require for their own security. He (the Governor) on the contrary had more humility. He thought, however, that prudence was on his side, he hardly hoped at once to make so perfect a measure as he could wish, and therefore he had left it open to the means of a remedy. He did not think one-third summoned by her Majesty too many. The Government could not hope to command the support of the nominees in all cases, but in questions of im"portance, such for instance as questions relating to the native race, it might be desirable that persons of ability should be in the Council to speak in ti eir behalf. He should however be happy to transmit any contrary suggestion the Council might think proper to make. In reply to a question from the At-torney-General, his Excellency stated that it would be in the power of any settlement to have a corporation if they chose to apply for it. Mr. Dillon Bell said, if it was in order for him to propose a motion to the Committee he should propose the following :—: — That this Council having considered the 3i d Clause of his Excellency's reply, would suggest a modification of that part of it which relates to the nomination of certain persons by the Crown in the -Provincial Legislative Councils, so a3 that the only persons who should be nominated by the Crown should be the Official Members of the Executive Council of the. Province. His Excellency said that according to the composition at present stated, the Crown possessed' a privilege which he considered very valualle, not only -of summoning any official member, but also of summoning any person of ability whose services they might desire to have, but to prevent increasing of nominees it was necessary to place a limit to jtl c number. Mr. Moore said he considered one- third a very fair proportion, and he thought it gave a sufficient guarantee that the Government would not exercise undue influence in the Council. He did not wish to defend the principle of nomination in what was called representative Government ; but he saw that in some instances inconvenience might arise to the Government in having too small a limit on the number to be nominated, — for instance, where the number of the whole Council -was necessarily small a proportion of one-fourth might not even allow of the admission of the necessary Government officials ; still, if onefourth would do he should be glad to see the number limited to that proportion. His Excellency remarked that he had endeavoured as far as. he was able to make, the plan as complete as possible without

making it dependent on any thing beyond it. The Executive Council at present consisted of only four members, but it might be varied at the pleasure of her Majesty, and there would therefore be no guarantee that a fixed constitution existed. He saw so many inconveniences that he could not recommend the Council to adopt the motion. For instance, as regards the officer commanwing the forces, his proper place would be in the General Assembly f whereas this resolution bound the Government to put four particular officers into the Legislatjve Council. After some further discussion the motion was withdrawn. His Excellency then enquired whether hon. gentlemen wished to move any othef question. Mr. Moore asked whether native qualifications were, or were intended to be defined ? * His Excellency said he had made no suggestion ; but considering that the majority of the natives would be to a considerable extent subject to influence, he was anxious to make the qualification rathe«* high, and he had made it so high that it was necessary to reserve some power to the Governor-in-Chief, and for the present such power would be exercised by him. This was one point which would be left to the General Assembly. The Committee, on the motion of Mr. Hickson, then adopted the following report :—: — The Committee of the whole Council having taken into consideration His Excellency's reply to their address of the 22nd instant, beg to report that they are of opinion, That the number of persons summoned by Her Majesty to the Provincial Council, in accordance with the third head of His Excellency's reply, should never exceed five, that being, in their opinion, a sufficient number ot persons to represent the Government in the Legislative Body. The Committee are not prepared to suggest any further .alterations in the plan proposed by His Excellency. They would recommend the Council to request His Excellency to iirge Her Majesty's advisers to cause the provisions of such a form of Representative Government to be embodied in an Act of Parliament, to take effect at the period named, or at such earlier date as may, for that purpose, be proclaimed by the Gover-nor-in-Chief, the Committee being convinced that it is of the greatest importance to the Islands of New Zealand, that Representative Institutions should be introduced at the earliest practicable date. The Committee adjourned, and their Report- was brought up. On the motion of the Attorney-General the Council adopted the Report of the Committee. On the motion of Mr. Hickson the Council adopted the following resolution :—: — That this Council has much pleasure in expressing its satisfaction at the exposition, by His Excellency the Goyernor-in-Chief, ofhis plans for the introduction of Representative Institutions into New Zealand. His Excellency said that all the business being concluded, he had only to thank hon. gentlemen for their attendance. He then adjourned the Council sine die.