LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 30, 19 August 1871, Page 8

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

THURSDAY, AUGUST 17. The Speaker took tbe Chair at two o'clock. PETITION. The Hon Mr PATERS ON presented a petition from members of the Presbytery of Dunedin, praying that the system of education to be adopted by the Legislature should be national, in contradistinction to denominational; that, in any system introduced, provision should be made for the reading of the sacred scriptures; and that any measure on the subject should be laid before the country. The petition was received. ADMINISTRATION OE WASTE XANDS. The Hon Mr WATERHOUSB moved that an address be presented to his Excellency the Governor, requesting that he will cause such steps to be taken as he may deem necessary in order to remedy the numerous illegalities which have taken place in the administration of the waste lands of tbe Crown, and also with a view to prevent the recurrence of such irregularities for the future. In order that members might comprehend these illegalities, he referred to the origin of legislation on the subject of waste lands under the Constitution Act. By that constitution the Legislature could not delegate to Provincial Councils or 1 other bodies the power of dealing with lands. In 1857 there was an amendment of the Constitution Act, but the sole right of dealing with lands was still reserved to the Legislature. This was the constitutional state of the case at the present time. In looking at the action taken by tbe Legislature he found that great care was taken to keep within the Constitution Act, with one solitary exception which occurred in 1860, when a measure was passed authorising the Provincial Councils of Wellington and Taranaki to make declarations regarding the waste lands of these provinces, classifying them as rural and suburban. With that exception, there was no infringement of the Constitution Act till 1868, when a very important measure was passed by the legislature —an act validating and confirming a road ordinance of the province of Otago, which authorised the granting of certain lands to purchasers. The legislature of Otago, by that act, gave from three to five per cent of lands purchased as compensation for land taken for roads. Both these acts' had never been reserved for the assent of *Her Majesty, and • proceedings taken under invalid. In the same year there waß another act passed affecting the province of Otago—authorising the Council to set aside lands for educational or University purposes, instead of others previously set apart. A very proper endowment was made under the act, but the whole proceeding, he contended, was illegal and invalid. The question was not only important to the University, but to the gentleman who, he believed, was about to lease the property. In 1869 another act was passed in. contravention ot constitutional powers—viz, the Otago Settlements Act; and last year the Constitution Act was infringed in one if not two instances. One of these was by passing the act giving power to the Superintendent of Wellington, " with the advice and consent of the Provincial Council," to make special settlements. He considered also that the Public Works Act of last session was, in certain similar respects, uncenstitutional. So much for general legislation. But there had also been, on the part of provincial legislatures, numerous encroachments of the Constitution Act. He referred to an ordinance

passed by the Southland Council in 1863, empowering the Superintendent to make railway reserves : to the Peacock Jetty Extension Ordinance, passed by the Canterbury Council ; and to the Highways Act passed last session by the Wellington Council. What might be the consequences of all this legislation he could - not say, but it must result in confusion and injury to titles. Neither could he suggest what course should be taken to cover the illegalities. Tjie motion simply referred the matter to the Government, and probably a suggestion made by the Minister of Justice, that a commission might be appointed, would be the best course to adopt. He held that all powers of legislation with respect to lands should be strictly kept to the Central Legislature, and he even felt that all legislation should proceed from that Central Legislature. The country was not ripe for the abolition of Provincial Councils, but he thought it was at least time that provincial legislation should Jease. The Hon. Mr RHODES seconded the motion.

The Hon. Mr SEWELL believed the subject referred to in the motion deserved careful consideration, but he. suggested that the motion might be modified. The motion contained an assumption as to the existence of . illegalities, to which the Council might not feel disposed to agree without some further inquiry. He could not see how such an investigation could be made by a committee of the House. He thought it should rest with his Excellency, and he suggested that the motion should be amended so as to read to the effect that an address be presented to his Excellency the Governor, requesting that he will cause inquiries to be made as to the various acts and ordinances relating to the wastelands of the Crown, and the administration of such acta and ordinances, with the view of ascertaining whether any illegalities or irregularities have occurred, in order that the past might be remedied, and the recurrence of irregularities prevented. The Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE accepted the amendment, which was agreed to. THE OATH OP ALLEGIANCE. The Hon. Mr WATERHOUSE moved that it be an instruction to the Standing Orders Committee to inquire into and report upon the authority (if any) under which members of this Council, after having once taken the oath of allegiance as prescribed by the Constitution Act, were at the reassembling of Parliament required to renew such oath before being permitted to sit or vote in the said Legislative Council. The motion was seconded, and agreed to. ADDRESS IN REPLY. The Hon. Colonel BRETT moved the addrsss in reply to the Governor's speech, and in doing so referred at length to the several paragraphs in his Excellency's speech as containing matter for congratulation on the part of the Legislature and of the country. The Hon. Mr RHODES seconded the motion. He also referred seriatim to the several paragraphs of the speech. There was one subject which he wished had been alluded to — the connection of the colony with Australia by telegraphic cable ; but he hoped that the matter would be referred to before the close of the session. The Hon. Mr HOLMES failed to see reasons for the House being so jubilant as the movers would wish it to be. He did not think that there was an item in the speech which was not open Jfc> question, and could not look upon the country as at all in a satisfactory condition at the present moment. He thought the Ballot Act was still imperfect. He disputed the propriety of the action taken in connection with the San Francisco mail contract, and believed that the line now existing could not possibly be maintained. He thought, indeed, under the circumstances, that it was undesirable to do so, as they might have a satisfactory substitute by a sudsidiary steamer to Fiji, or by reverting to the Suez route. He saw no grounds for congratulation as to the loan negotiated by the Colonial Treasurer, when compared either with previous loans to this colony, or present loans to other colonies. As to immigration, he believed the time had come when the General Government should carry out immigration on a scale different from that upon which it had been carried out by the provinces. So far as he could learn, not a single acre had been set aside by the provinces for railways and immigration. He thought, therefore, it became the Assembly to take the matter in its own hands, and set aside lands both for railways and the settlement of the people. On the subject of education, he thought the Government of the colony had been rather lax, by not bringing in a large measure many years ago. He hoped that when the promised measure was brought forward it would be on a broad basis, and steer clear of priest-craft as far as possible, providing a liberal education for all classes. A subject much more important, and which was completely ignored in the address, was the number of Governments and officials who were literally consuming the country. As an indication of the extent of this burden, he referred to statistics of revenue and expenditure in Otago, which, he estimated, resembled many other provinces in the colony. With such a vast outlay in salaries, very little improvement could be expected, and ho thought the time had arrived for a remedy, and that remedy was to abolish provincial institutions, to make Superintendents agents of the Government for the term of their office, and to make the members of the .Assembly members also of a Council for each island. If such a scheme could be introduced by a person of sufficient ability to bring it before the Assembly, he would deserve to be recognised as a benefactor to the country. If true to themselves, and if they did all they could to remedy existing evils, New Zealand might still advance and prosper. The Hon Dr GRACE did not think it was fair to attribute to the Colonial Treasurer the failure of the San Francisco mail route. Its initiation was commendable, but the present

arrangement was, so far as they knew, nob attributable to the Treasurer, but to a general resolution. He did not Bee any parallel between the placing of the last and previous loans. It had to bo remembered that their revenue was gradually decreasing, and there were other circumstances affecting the money market. He was with the Hon Mr Holmes in his desire to see some change in the gevernment of the country, but he differed with him as to his plan. He could not agree with him as to defects of the ballot, and as to the revenue of the colony, there were circumstances to explain its decline apart from any decline of the colony. The Hon Mr WATERHOTJSE thought the Ballot Act would be felt to be incomplete until a registration act were passed. As to the remarks of Mr Holmes on the loans, there was no similarity whatever in the conditions under which the present loan and the loan placed by Mr Fitzherbert had been floated. The San Francisco mail route he believed to be the best route that could be selected, but concessions might have to be made as to its direction and terminus ; and he believed the experience of the last year pointed to the propriety of some change. In connection with the question of the Public Works Act, he hoped that they would soon see the administration placed in the hands of a minister of public works. He disputed the wisdom of any such scheme as that of Mr Holmes for the re-adjustment of the Government of the colony. By dividing themselves into separate communities they would become the Japanese of the Southern Hemisphere. The Hon. Mr SEYMOUR was satisfied with the reply as a whole. The subject most open to discussion was the subject of the San Francisco mail route, and he referred to several objections to the service, and to the desirability of rescusitating inter-provincial services. He thought the seventh clause of the reply would read more in accordance with the facts if it referred to the natives as desiring to cultivate friendly relations. He did not take it that they desired, as the reply said, to promote colonisation. The Hon. Mr McLEAN thought the sueoess of the loan was a success quite equal to what the most sanguine could have expected. He thought the natives were quite as alive to the work of colonisation as we were, and he looked upon the effect in that direction as one of the best results of the legislation of last session. He referred to the question of education—a question to which he hoped there would be a true solution; and he spoke at some length on the San Francisco mail service, his opinion being that the service, as other previous services, was in advance of the requirements of the colony. He explained and approved of the form of government suggested by Mr Holmes, but took quite a different view as to the condition and prospects of the colony. He believed that the improvement in the value of one principal export would, revive our and that we might look forward with great hope to better times.

The debate was adjourned, and the Council rose at fire o'clock.