HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

New Zealand Mail, Issue 30, 19 August 1871, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

On returning to the House of Representatives, members took the oath and their seats; the oath being administered by Mr Justice Johnston. ELECTION OF SPEAKER. Sir D. MONRO, addressing the Clerk, said: —Major Campbell and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives,—l now rise for the purpose of inviting you to take that step the necessity for which you have been reminded of by His Excellency's Commissioners in the other Chamber. It is a proceeding imposed upon us as a necessity, not only by the terms of the Constitution Act, but which is evidently consistent with common sense and the necessities of every deliberative body. But before, Sir, I proceed further with my self-imposed duty, I think it is but right I should explain how ifc is that I occupy this position of some prominence and responsibility. The members of this House are no doubt aware that the election of a Speaker is commonly a party matter, which I understand to mean that the Speaker is a person who is approved of by the Ministry of the day. In that respect the gentleman whom I am about to propose to this House for election to the chair will, no doubt, fulfil the conditions to which I have adverted. I also understand it to be the ordinary practice of Parliament that not only is the Speaker who is elected a person who is virtually selected by the Ministry of the day, but that the member who proposes him for election by the House is one of the principal supporters of the Ministry. Now; my position in the House is : this: having had the honor to occupy that chair for the last ten years, of course I abstained from party politics, and having, therefore, not taken any action in the House in respect to parties, I cannot be considered to adhere to any of the political sections into which the House may be divided. I do not think it is necessary that I should say more upon this subject; I merely wish, to clear my position of any ambiguity that may be supposed to attach to it. While I cannot be considered a supporter of the present Ministry, having, although not in the House, on various legitimate occasions outside the House expressed my opinion on public questions of the day in a direction different from that held by his Excellency's political advisers, I trust, however, upon the other hand, I shall not be regarded as a blind and indiscriminate opponent. The circumstances of the country appear to me too serious and too grave for the mere game of party strife. This House ha 3 "before it much more serious and earnest work than anything of that sort. We are here to devise measures which may be calculated to extricate the colony from considerable difficulty, and I trust that I shall always be found to give an impartial and honorable consideration to any measures calculated to have this operation, from whatever quarter they may proceed. And, now, sir, having avoided this anomaly in my position, for it is undoubtedly a political anomaly—l shall proceed to inform the House who it is I propose as Speaker, how it is that I ( coisae to propose him, and why I propose him. When the last Parliament came to a close by the effluxion of time, I had occupied the chair of this House for ten years. Latterly my health has somewhat given way, and before the House broke up I announced that I should not re-election to the Speaker's Chair. During the recess I received a letter from my friend Mr Dillon Bell, asking me if I still adhered to my intention i»i that respect; and upon my informing him that. I did so, he told me that he had the intention of seeking to be elected to the chair, and our correspondence ended by bis doing 'me the honor of asking me to propose him for the office. It did not require much deliberation on my part to weigh this pro-

position of his, and to accede to it. It was not for me to forget that upon two several occasions Mr Bell had done me the honor to propose me as Speaker, and I had"been eleced. I could not forget either, that I had known Mr Bell for nearly thirty years—all the time we have been together in this colony,—and that I had always found him an honox'able, talented, genial, and accomplished gentleman, and a kind and constant friend. I owe an apology to Mr Bell for saying these things in his presence. I should rather have avoided saying them, for I know that these things cannot be particularly agreeable when said in his presence; but I attach considerable importance to the possession of these qualities —qualities upon which long-enduring friendships are founded, and whichl think valuable in every relation in life. I feel certain that they will confer considerable proficiency upon the gentleman, whoever he may be, that occupies the chair of the House. I think, therefore, that it is my duty to refer to those circumstances. I had also to weigh, on being requested to propose Mr Belh, his fitness for the position of Speaker of this House from a larger and more public point of view. With regard to that, I think that any one who knows anything of the history of the colony must know something of the career of Mr Dillon Bell; for I should say for nearly the last thirty years the history of the colony and the public service of the colony have been more or less identified with his aclion as a public servant. I think there is hardly any one in this House who will not admit' that when we look at the services that Mr Bell has rendered to this colony—services raßging over a variety of departments, and including services given in.the very highest offices in the colony—when wo consider the ability and the zeal with which he has always discharged the public duties entrusted to him—when we consider the assiduity with which he has done his work —an assiduity almost bordering on a fault by the excess to which it was carried—an excess which, I fear, upon one occasion went so far as even to inflict an injury upon my friend in the shape of more or less loss of his eyesight, the most serious injury which any man could sustain —I say, when we consider all these things, there can be but one conclusion, that there are very few persons in the colony to whom this House owes more, or whom it should better seek to honor by placing him in its chair. I feel certain that those qualities which he has exhibited in the public service will, in that chair, exhibit themselves with equal ability—that they will redound to the credit of Mr Bell and to the manifest advantage of the House. [Sir David, after some further complimentary allusions to Mr Bell, concluded by formally moving that he do take the chair of the House as Speaker.] Mr BRANDON briefly seconded the motion.

Mr DILLON BELL gracefully replied, confessing that it was impossible that he could adequately fulfil the high expectations the House had been led to form of him. But he would venture to say that in his career of thirty years —he being one of those whose greatest pride was that they belonged to the band of persons who had founded the colony, —that he could not look back to any public act in which he had been engaged in which he had not felt a desire above everything to advance the public interest, and that notwithstanding the keen party contests in which it had been his fate to engage, he did not think there was one member of the House whom ho could consider other than as a personal friend. He took the chair under great doubts as to his capacity to fill it because it was incontestible that the House had made steady progress in the field of legislation, and last year for the first time assumed the duty of colonisation hitherto left entirely to Provincial Councils. The responsibilities of the House and the Speaker were therefore all the greater. He concluded by expressing his sense of coming far short of Sir David Munro, but promised to discharge the duties of the high office they had been pleased to confer upon him to the best of his ability and in the most courteous and impartial manner. Mr EOX, addressing the Speaker, said it was with the greatest satisfaction that he congratulated him on his attainment to the high and honorable position to which he had been promoted by the House. The mover and seconder of his election had referred to their thirty years of personal friendship with him with him within the colony, but he (Mr Fox) could carry his recollections to an earlier period, when Mr Bell commenced his labor in London in connection with the colonisation of New Zealand. From that time, and through all the varied phases of colonial life, he (the Speaker) had taken an active and prominent part in public affairs, in the first struggle with physical difficulties and native disturbances, in the efforts to introduce representative institutions, as a member of the first Ministry formed on the basis of responsible government, as a member of the House during a long period, and finally as a member of His Excellency's Ministry. As a member of that Ministry, and as a private member, the very last political action which he had taken had been to foster in this country that spirit of colonisation, the promotion of which had occupied his best thoughts during his whole public career. On thes<? grounds he congratulated him upon his election, and he hoped that for many years he would have the satisfaction and pleasure of seeing him occupying the seat to which he had been so honorably elected. On the motion of Mr Eox, the House adjourned until half past one o'clock on Tuesday. TUESDAY, AUGUST 15. The Speaker took the Chair at half-past two o'clock. THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH.. The Speaker read to the House the Governor's speech as delivered in the Legislative Council Hall.

honorable legislative councillors, and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives, — It is with satisfaction that I have summoned the Parliament of the colony, and now invite your assistance and advice. I am glad to learn that the ballot which has for the first time in this colony been used at the general election of members of the House of Representatives, has been found to work well. Since I last addressed you, I have again visited the provinces of the Middle Island, and its West _ Coast. I have also observed with much satisfaction the growing prosperity of the North Island, and particularly the extraordinary yield of gold in the Province of Everywhere, in both Islands, my visits elicited expressions of loyalty to the Queen, and of good-will towards myself; and I shall always remember with gratitude the courteous and hospitable manner in which I have been received in all parts of New Zealand. I congratulate you on the progress which has been made during the present year in establishing, under improved arrangements, the postal route to Great Britain by way of San Francisco. I hope that the line will attract the co-operation of the Australian colonies, and the support of the United States. Relations with the Natives continue to improve. A bill will be laid before you to consolidate and amend the laws relating to the Native Lands Court.

Yon will concur with me in regretting the death of the celebrated chief, Tamati Waka Nene, alike distinguished for his loyalty to the Queen and his friendship with the Pakeha : and who, whether in peace or war, was ever ready to aid : - in establishing the Queen's sovereignty and promoting colonisation. The Land Transfer Act of last session has been brought into operation, and I am glad to state that, though so short a time has elapsed, the progress of the system, and its appreciation by owners of property, have been very marked. The successful negotiation of a large part of the loan authorised last year, and the continuance of internal tranquillity, have enabled my Government to initiate and carry on the colonising policy of the late Parliament. Their endeavor has been to give effect to that policy in the spirit in which it was framed, and to apply the resources placed at their disposal for that purpose with frugality, with fairness, and with a steadfast view to lasting results. It is with great satisfaction that I have observed the general wish of the native tribes in the' interior of the North Island to promote the formation of great lines of road through their lands, and the practical proof which they give of their sincerity in that respect by themselves joining in the work. Commencement has been made in the public works authorised in the Middle Island ; and immigration will, in pursuance of the instructions recently given, be secured to those provisions of the Immigration Act. You will, I feel sure, concur with me that the introduction and settlement of suitable immigrants are as necessary as the construction of large public works, and that both are essential to the proper development of the resources and the lasting welfare of the colony. Gentlemen of the House of Representatives, —

The Estimates for the ensuing year will be laid before you. They will be framed with a strict regard to economy. I congratulate you on the very favorable terms on which a large part of the loan authorised by the acts of last session has been raised in London. The arrangements, also, which have been effected with the Lords of her Majesty's Treasury in reference to the guaranteed Million Loan, are of a character to enhance the credit of the colony, and to facilitate its financial operations. I regret to inform you that there has been a considerable falling off in the colonial revenue during the year—as there has been in some of the Australian colonies. This, no doubt, is a consequence of the depressed value of the staple articles of production, and the stagnation of commercial and manufacturing industries attributable to the great European war. The present revival in the value of those products, the restoration of peace in Europe, the rapid growth of local industries, and the progress of immigration and public works, justify the belief that this depression is exceptional, and the hope that it will pi'ove transitory. It rests with you to adopt measures for equalising the revenue and expenditure. Honorable Legislative Councillors, and Gentlemen of the House of SENTATIVES,-t-It is of the greatest importance that elementary instruction should be more widely diffused, and also that popular education should be raised to a higher standard. A bill will be laid before you to provide for both those ends. The reduction in the telegraph charges has resulted in a great increase of business during the year. A number of convicts lately arrived in Canterbury from the penal settlement of Western Australia. Steps were taken by my Government for their immediate removal. Among other measures, you will be asked to give your consideration to bills for improving the law of insolvency, for amending the law relating to goldfields, for conferring powers on committees on. disputed elections, for the regulation of the coasting trade, for the encouragement of fisheries, for conferring powers on highway boards, for providing for the appointment of a public trustee, for providing land for the settlement of immigrants, and for the better regulation of charitable trusts. I trust that your deliberations may, under the guidance of Divine Providence, contribute to the unity, peace, and prosperity of the colony. Mr PEARCE gave notice that he would move an address in reply. NEW BILL. The Hon. Mr FOX obtained leave to introduce a Bill, [The hon. member was under-

' stood to say that it was a Bill to validate the Dunedin aud Port Chalmers Railway Ordinance.] The Bill was read a first time. petitions. Mr MACANDREW presented a petition from the Dunedin Waterworks Company, requesting power to berrow additional capital. Mr REYNOLDS presented petitions from Chancellor, Yice Chancellor, and members of the Council of the University of Otago,on,the subject of University revenue; a petition from the Moderator of the Otago Synod, asking that no educational measure might be passed until the country had an opportunity of knowing its contents; and a petition from R. and J. Haworth, praying that certain grievances in connection with the tariff be taken into consideration by the House. The petitions were received. PAPERS. The Hon. Mr GISBORNE kid upon the table a number of papers, some of which wera ordered to be printed. NOTICES. Notices of motion to appoint Select Committees were given by a numbtr of members ; one by Mr Studholme was that he would move that Mr O'Rorke be appointed Chairman of Committees. By the Speaker, a letter from the Secretary for the Colonies was x'ead, expressing the satisfaction of her Majesty at receiving illuminated addresses from the Houses of Assembly accompanying despatches of the 30th May last. THE SEAT FOR ROSLYN. The Speaker read Mr Henry Driver's resignation of his seat for Roslyn ; and, on the motion of the Hon. Mr Fox, it was agreed that an address should be presented to the Governor that a writ be issued for the election of another member. NEW ZEALAND UNIVERSITY. Mr REYNOLDS, without notice, asked whether the Government would, at an early date, lay on the table a copy of all correspondence between the Government and the Council of the University of New Zealand; The Hon. Mr GISBORNE said the correspondence was in the hands of the printers, and, as soon as printed, would be laid on the table. ELECTION PETITIONS. The SPEAKER said petitions against the election of certain members of the House had been lodged, but those against the election of Messrs Pearce, Hunter, Brandon, and O'Connor had been withdrawn. The other petition was that against Sir David Monro. It had not been withdrawn, and it would be necessary for the House to appoint a day and hour for the selection of a committee to consider the questions arising under the petition. • Mr BUNNY, with leave given, moved that on Wednesday, at three o'clock, a committee should proceed to deal with the petition. ELECTION FOR AUCKLAND CITY WEST. The Speaker read a letter from Mr John Williamson informing hioa that, at the time of his election as a member for Auckland City West, he held the office of Commissioner of Crown Lands. No petition against his election had been forwarded, but its validity had been questioned, and he would not take his seat until the matter had been decided by the House.

The Hon Mr FOX moved that an address be presented to his Excellency for the issue of a writ for a new election. It appeared that, in similar cases in the Imperial Parliament, when a member whose return was invalid admitted the same in writing to the Speaker, the House issued a writ without further controversy or discussion, but not until fourteen days had elapsed, during which petitions must be presented or the question raised. In this House it was different. The only ground upon which action could be taken was the fact of there being another candidate and of a petition being presented, but no such petition had been presented, and he apprehended that the House was now in a position to ask that a writ be issued for a new election. Mr GULLIES hoped the House would have some time to consider the matter. The election in question being utterly void, no petition was necessary. There was another candidate duly qualified, and who, he apprehended, was therefore* entitled to the seat. It would be scarcely fair to that candidate that he should have to stand a fresh election by another writ being issued. Mr O'NEILL was not prepared to agree that the election was altogether void. His reading of the act was that Mr Williamson could take his seat, but he rendered himselj liable to a penalty of £IOO for each sitting. If a fresh election were necessary, however, it was undesirable that there should be any delay. Mr O'RORKE said that if there was any point understood at Home, it was that where the people in ignorance returned a man who was disqualified, a new writ would issue. He need not refer to the well-known case of Wilkes, who was returned time after time till the Government took steps to declare the defeated . candidate, the rightful representative. He thought the course suggested by Mr CHllies was what the House of Commons had then adopted, but it was a resolution which was afterwards expunged from the journals. He thought the matter was one which should be thoroughly investigated, as they might be establishing a precedent of very considerable importance in its influence upon future proceedings of the House. Mr HALL asked the Government to give the House time to come to a perfect understanding on the matter, which, however well it might be understood at Home, was new and important here,, and required consideration. The Hon. Mr GISJBORNE moved an amendment io the effect that.a select committee be appointed to inquire into the practice of the House and the law in connection with the election of the member for the City of Auckland West, as stated by the Speaker.

He referred to cases in " May ; to which, had Mr Williamson resigned, as he thought he had done, the case would have been analogous. But Mr Williamson had not resigned, and he was not certain, by the wording of the letters, that he' admitted that he was disqualified. The letter only said that the election had been called in question. Considering the great importance of establishing a precedent-, it was desirable that a committee should be appointed to search for [precedents, and to inquire into the subject generally. Mr BUNNY seconded the amendment. The SPEAKER said he had searched for precedents, and also sought the advice of his predecessor, but the point appeared to be altogether novel, and he had failed in coming to any distinct judgment as to how to advise the House. He could only recommend, therefore, that, before any decision were come to,' a further search for precedents should be made. Mr CREIGHTON thought it better to agree to the motion for the issue of a writ. He failed to see that Englieh practice affected the case, which clearly came under the Disqualifications Act. Mr BUNNY said there could be no doubt that Mr Williamson's election was void, but there remained the question, What was the position of the party next on the poll ? The Hon Mi- FOX had moved for a writ merely to test the feeling of the House. He fully concurred with the amendment, and with much that had been said as to the importance of several questions involved. As delay was undesirable,,- he suggested that the committee , should report on Thursday. j On the amendment and motion being put,' the amendment was agreed to ; and the House j adjourned until half-past 2 o'clock on Wednesday. WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 16. The Speazeb took the chair at half-past two o'clock. -..'■• PABLIAMENTAKY PAPEES. The following is the list of papers and returns laid upon the table of the House of "Representatives on Tuesday : Despatches from his Excellency the Governor of New Zealand to the Right Honorable the Secretary of State for the Colonies; despatches from the Right Honorable the Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Governor of New Zealand ; controller's cash balance sheet, 1869-70; statement of the receipts and expenditure of the several provinces of New Zealand, and of the county of Westland, for the year ended 31st December, 1870; papers relating to the construction of roads in the North Island : (1. Reports and correspondence j 2. Contracts entered into up to 30th June, 1871) ; to the construction of tramways: 1. West Coast of the province of Wellington «j to immigration : (1. General reports and- correspondence; 2. Introduction of Scandinavian immigrants)'; j first annual report on the immigration and . public works department, by the Minister of public works ; report on public works, by the acting engineer-in chief; to the construction of railways (1. Correspondence as to received from English and other capitalists for survey and construction; 6. Contracts! entered into up to 30th June, 1871; 4. Rail- | way bridges) ; to the purchase of the Seventy"; Mile Bush block ; to the San Francisco mail service; statement showing the deposit receipts of the post-office savings banks of the colony, together with the expenses of working the department, for the year 1870; a general summary of. the import, export, and shipping returns, and an abstract of the customs revenue of the colony of New Zealand, for the year 1870 ; report of the Government Annuities Commissioner, together with accounts to 30th June, 1871"; statistical tables, in anticipation of the annual volume of statistics of New Zealand for the year 1870 (Finance; Trade and interchange) ; resolution of the Provincial Council of Canterbury on the subject of its powers of legislation; report by the Auditor-General on compensation claims awarded by Mr Commissioner Beckham, with memorandum by the Attorney-General; report of the cemmissioners appointed to inquire into the case of Ann Morris, with memoranda by the Attorney-General and Mr Cooper; to the construction of railways: Hon J. Vogel's letter] on American railways, and correspondence connected therewith ; to the construction of roads (South Island): 1. County of Westland ; letter from Sidney David Taiwhanga, of Kaikohe, complaining of irregularities in the mode of conducting the election of a member for the northern Maori electoral district; to the defence of the harbors of New Zealand; to the issue of the New Zealand war medal; memorandum on the operation of the Native Lands Court, by Sir William Martin. PETITION. j Mr O'RORKE presented a petition from the Auckland Gas Works Company asking for leave to bring in a bill to give the company extended powers. The petition was received. AUCKLAND -WEST ELECTION. The Hon. Mr FOX brought up the report of the committee appointed to search for precedents in relation to Mr Williamson's election for Auckland West. The resolution of the committee was that Mr Williamson's return was null and void ; and that the Speaker should be requested to direct the Clerk of Writs to make out a new writ for the election of a member for Auckland City West. He moved that the resolution of the committee should be adopted. The Hon. Mr secended the motion, and it was agreed to. SIB D. MONEO'S ELECTION. \ The SPEAKER read a letter from Sir David Monro, intimating that he had appointed Mr Iravers as his agent in the matter of the petition against his election for Motueka. GOLDFIEIDS ACT. Mr O'NEILL/ without notice, asked the Colonial Secretary whether it was the inten-

tion of the Government to introduce-at; an early date the proposed Goldfieids Act "mentioned in the Governor's speech. The Hon Mr GISBORNE replied.that it Was the intention to introduce .the! measure early, and to submit it to the/goldfieids committee proposed to be appointed.,-. ,/ ;i j ELECTION PETITIONS..';:,.:, . ' The SPEAKER explained the.'.manner in which he proposed to proceed; in. the mat tier of the selection of a committee tp consider;the petition against the election..of Sir Davjd Monro ; and, after his explanation, formally agreed to that Mr O'Rorke,. as.-pr'oH bable Chairman of Committees,;-and 3 the-Maori members should be relieved from sittihg, on the committee. The Speaker promised : thpt the list of members for the selectiqn.pf ( a, cotp ■-' mittee by the parties interested would *be ;priepared at the earliest possible moment. , ; GOLDPIELDS ADMINISTBA'T/lONi = <<. j Mr HARRISON asked the Premier^'ls it the intention of the Government -to introduce during the present session any -measure for the better administration of s the. {Middle Island?" He referred to the petition,.which he presented to the House.during the previous session, to resolutions passed by the Westland County Council, and to promises made that the administration of affairs would be inquired into. The Hon. Mr FOX referred the hon. member to the Governor's speech, and to the reply which had already been given to Mr O'Neill. He repeated that a bill to amend the the Goldfi«lds .Acts would be introduced early, and be Submitted to the Select Committe on Goldfieids." ..NOETH DTJNEDIN CEMETERY. Mr MAC ANDRE W moved for leave to in troduce a bill to appropriate a certain portion of the Town Belt of Dunedin to and for the purpose of a public cemetery ; and to empower the Council of the City of. Dunedin to manage the same. . The SPEAKER referred to the want of uniformity in the regulations of the two Houses on the subject of private bills, as a matter of difficulty in connection with a bill such as that proposed. Mr MACANDREW contended that the bill was, in every sense, a public one. Mr REYNOLDS thought it must be considered as a private bill, and the only question was whether the proper notices had been given. Mr GILLIES supported the \ievr that it was a publie bill. Mr STAFFORD viewed the motion with anxiety and suspicion, and hoped that it might not be taken as a precedent. He thought the citizens of Dunedin, as well as of other cities in the colony, were open to a yery grave charge for permitting the; existence of cemeteries at their very doors, and he thought the House should-be careful in doing anything that .would perpetuate the system. He felt so strongly on the question that, if the Government did not take it up, he. was disposed to bring in a bill to prevent any ground for cemeteries being taken up within towns. He could npt approve, either, of public recreation grounds being taken for cemeteries on the assumption that private property ,was ;not affected. There .could be no greater depreciation of property than to place a cemetery alongside it. . „ , Sir D. MONRO hesitated to Support a measure which might inflict serious* private individuals, without having an opportunity of representing how#ieir interests were affected. The House ought to have, evidence that those persons whose property was calculated to be affected knew that proceedings were being taken, and either approved or disapproved of them. ■ ; .< > Mr M'LEAN believed that"; there was no feeling of opposition, but. recommended the hon. member introducing the-bill to give time in passing it through its various stages in the House. ; . Mr T. L. SHEPHERD would determinedly oppose any alienation of such a public reserve as the Dunedin town belt. Mr MACANDREW said he had no desire to push the bill through the House; and leave was granted for its introduction. CHAIRMAN OP COMMITTEES. Mr STUDHOLME moved that George Maurice O'Rorke, Esq., the member for the town of Onehunga, be the Chairman of Committees during the present parliament. He considered that Mr O'Rorke had a claim to the chairmanship of committees greater than that of any other member of the House. For many sessions, during the absence of Mr Carleton, he had been invariably selected to fill his place, and every old member of the House would agree" with him that he had performed the duties in a satisfactory and efficient manner; and he believed that, as chairman, he would continue to perform the duties with credit to himself and advantage to the House. Mr MACANDREW seconded the motion. He believed there was no member who was better up in Parliamentary practice, and in a knowledge of ;the rules of the House, and he felt sure that, as Chairman, Mr O'Rorke would exhibit the impartiality, firmness, and dignity which he had always displayed. The resolution was agreed to; and the Speaker expressed his great satisfaction at having the valuable assistance which he was certain to receive from the hon. member for Onehunga. . COMMITTEES. Select committees were appointed to deal with the following subjects : —Printing, Public Accounts, Standing Orders, Bills, and Petitions affecting Waste Land, the House, the Library, Reporting, Goldfieids, Private Bills, and Petitions. Mr SHEPHERD proposed'amendments to the motion appointing a committee to consider bills and petitions affecting waste lands. He objected to joint committees of the House of Representatives and the Legislative Council, especially on such a subject as that of waste

lands, and particularly objected to their bringing up a joint report, the resolutions contained in which might only have the approval of a minority of the members of the House on the committee. ;H Mr BRADSHAW seconded the amendment, and : I Mr STUART supported it. * The Hon. J. HALL considered that such joint committees tended to .harmony in the Assembly, and expedited business. He did not object, however, to the striking out of the words-" and to agree to a joint report." The Hon. Mr GISBORNE suggested that the mover of the amendment should withdraw itj and substitute for if an amendment to the effect that the Committee in question should bring up a report separate from that of the committee appointed by the Legislative Council. The suggestion was adopted, and, when put as an amendment, was agreed to. On the motion of Mr Thomson, seconded by Mr JVC. Brown, a similar amendment was made upon the motion proposing a goldfieids committee. WELLINGTON EECLAIMED LAND. The Hon. Mr FITZHERBERT moved for leave to bring in a bill to effect the conveyance of certain lands in the City of Wellington forming part of lands known as the reclaimed land, and of the whaif and store,' the property of the Superintendent of the province of Wellington, to the Mayor, Councillors, and Burgesses of the City of Wellington ; and to provide for the raising of the purchase money by the said Mayor, Councillors, and Burgesses ; and for the management of other part of the said reclaimed land. Leave was given, and the mover gave notice that he would move the second reading on Tuesday next. The House adjourned at half-past 5 o'clock, and resumed at half-past 7. ADDRESS IN EEPLT. Mr PEAROE moved the address in reply to his Excellency's speech. He said that when he asked the House to grant him the clemency usually afforded to those who moved the address in reply he did so as no mere matter of form, but with the conviction that he would require it all. The reply, in accordance with long-established custom, was an echo>of the speech, and those who occupied the position which he had the honor to do were supposed to have given a general adhesion to the policy of the Government, and he assured the House that it was with no small feeling of the responsibility that he declared himself to be one of their supporters. The magnitude, and, to some extent, the speculative nature of the undertakings to which the country was.pledged, were sufficient cause for this feeling of responsibility. The undertakings tb which they were pledged were pregnant with results of great moment —for weal or for woe. The measures of the last Parliament had been most thoroughly discussed not only by the press of the colony, not only at public meetings, but he might say at every fireside throughout the length and breadth of the-land. The question was —What had been the verdict ? He thought he might venture to say that, although with hesitation by some, the main ideas contained in the policy of the Government had been received and endorsed by the various constituencies throughout the provinces. He might say that this remark applied with particular force to Welington. He could not but attribute his own election in preference to men of ability and large experience, not to any merit of his own, but.to the fact that he declared himself in favor of the proposals of the Government ; and he should feel that he did not act loyally if he did not do all in his power to bring their plans to a successful issue. Reviewing his Excellency's speech in detail, he thought it would be admitted that, upon the whole, the ballot had worked well. He thought that the experience of the last general election would satisfy the country that Parliament was right in agreeing with the advocates of the measnre. Probably some amendment might be judiciously made, for it might well be asked why should electors on the hustings be asked to declare for whom they wished to vote, and at the same time that the voting should be secret. The paragraph of the speech relating to the San Francisco mail was One which was probably open to criticism, and he would at once say that, as to the details of that service, he was not at one with the Ministry. He said it with diffidence, but he still held the views which he had early held on the subject. He yielded to none in recognising the importance of rapid communication with the mother country and with America, but he was not prepared to say that the present arrangement was altogether satisfactory. Indeed, he might say that the Ministry admitted that it was not satisfactory, as they expressed a hope of uniting with other colonies. He regretted that greater efforts had not been made to obtain the co-operation of other colonies, and that New Zealand was not represented at the Colonial Conference. As to native affairs, members who recollected the disastrous war which seemed to be the chronic state of things would agree with him in thinking that the Ministry might have drawn more direct attention to their treatment of those affairs, and demanded the approbation of the country. If they were satisfied with the few modest contained in the speech, the House would inot fail to pay them the tribute which was-certainly their due. The Native Minister seemed to have adopted the principle that the'policy of conciliation was more humane, effectual,.- and vastly cheapier than a system of coercion. He also thought that the common arbitrator —time — would one day settle the native difficulty. Probably, he would be told that peace depended upon the distribution of :eugar and blankets; but he hoped that was not the case, believing, as he did, that war had been the cause of all the troubles of Ts'ew Zealand. The prospects of peace were never greater than they were at present, and this was mainly due. to

Mr M'Lean. As to the Land Transfer Act, the promoters and advocates of that measure would be glad to learn that it had met with the of the country, and of owners of property. It was an admirable measure, but it was possible the Government might effect improvements in such matters as the discretio_nary powers of examiners of titles, and the appointment of trustees and joint .trustees. With regard to public works, he had .already declared his adhesion to the policy of the Government, and he asked the House to join with him in congratulations as to the very successful negotiation of the loan.- They had, indeed, entered upon a yery large undertaking. /They were endeavoring in a rightful manner to force advancement, but they must take care that they did not overdo it. New Zealand was doing much for posterity, but their duty to posterity had its limits. As to the reduction of the revenue, it was not to be wondered at that, dependent as it was upon Customs' receipts, it had fallen off. It might not be a sign of stagnation, but the effect of local industries bebag established. In Victoria, for many years, not only the land revenue, but the customs revenue, had materially declined, but there at the same time, been an immense increase-from public works. In introducing an Education Bill the Government had undertaken a most difficult task, and if they succeeded in passing a good measure they would deserve the thanks of the whole country.. By its Provincial legislatures, New Zealand had declared it to be the duty of the State to provide education. He had not seen the bill to be introduced, but he had been led to understand that it contained three prominent features. The first was, that it provided for a thorough system, of inspection. Secondly, in those districts in which that inspection showed that the want was not supplied the Government would undertake the duty; and, lastly, it not only required chat education should be provided, but also that children should be sent to school—the principle of compulsory education was recognised. Referring to the matter of telegraphic communication, he thought that great credit was due to the Colonial Treasurer for the boldness with which he had introduced a uniform and cheap scale of charges for telegraphic messages —a system which had been tried by large public companies at home, which had then failed, but which had since been introduced by the Government. After some further remarks, the hon. member concluded by thanking the House for the attention which had been given to him, and formally moved the Address in Reply. Mr E. RICHARDSON seconded the motion. In speaking to the motion, he referred chiefly to the Public Works, policy of the Government and the operations of the Defence Department. The Hon. Mr STAFFORD complimented highly the mover of the address in reply, upon his excellent accomplishment of a difficult task. He regretted, however, that he was unable to look at matters in the same rosy aspect. He agreed with the mover that-the speech was a modest one, and admitted that, on some subjects, the Government would have been justified in calling more directly the attention of the House. Looking at it altogether, however, he thought it a weak speech. There was not that confidence in the immediate future which might have been indicated. The speech was also remarkable for one or two omissions. There was no reference to the important appointment of a member of the Ministry and a distinguised colonist as Agent-General for the colony in England. While the death of Tamati Waka had been recorded, the death of another prominent and friendly chief, Epuni, had been altogether unnoticed. ■ He thought the Government were entitled to the credit of the virtue of patience by having delayed to so late a date—a date which would make attendance upon the business of the session of extreme inconvenience to many members. He dissented altogether from the form in which the San Francisco mail service had been established. He did not think the colony was able to afford the expense of the service, or that it was a very consistent course on the part of ardent admirers of native industry to drive from the coasting trade steamers which were locally owned. With regard to native affairs, there were several inconsistencies between the statements made from time to time by the Government, or by those organs which were supposed to be inspired by the Ministry. He desired to know how far the system of "no cure, no pay," which they announced as to the capture of Te Kooti, was in operation, and hoped it would not be found that heavy charges were involved. H e disputed the existence of any exceptional success in establishing telegraphic communication, and referred to the murder of Mr Todd as a circumstance not to be forgotten in connection with the alleged pacification of the natives. He failed to see any great success in the negotiation of the loan, and must abstain from joining in congratulations. He compared the terms of the loan negotiated by Mr Fitzherbert with that. negotiated by the Colonial Treasurer, and considered the comparison was unfavorable. He joined in the mover's congratulations as to the introduction of an Education Act. He had not the slightest faith that an improved law on Bankruptcy would be passed. Colonial and American experience was entirely .against such a hope. The providing of land for immigrants was a matter of the greatest importance, and on that matted the Government would have all the assistance he could give in attaining the object of settling immigrants/and developing the natural resources of the colony—than which they had no greater duty to perform. The Hon. Mr FOX replied to several of the references of the"; Hon. Mr Stafford, but we have not space in this number even briefly to report his remarks. I Mr GILLIES said he could not join in the congratulations to his Excellency for summoning Parliament at so late a period.

He took exception to it on the ground that the Government had no right to go on spending money after the 30th June, when the appropriation ceased. He could not see that the ballot had worked well, when it was seen from certain allegations in petitions before the House it was known how certain electors had voted- He hoped Mr Reynolds, the member for Dunedin, who had always supported this mode of voting, would come down with a new ballot bill to remedy this defect, for it was evident that voting under it was not secret. (Mr Reynolds here challenged the speaker to prove his assertion.) He referred to the petitions on the table of the House. He could not join in congratulations on the San Francisco postal service. He thought a branch service l»y Fiji was sufficient for all our wants. The Colonial Treasurer had exceeded his powers in making the contract. He objected to the coastal service, and to the amount of the subsidy. He did not think that our relations with the natives had at all improved. Auckland was not yet connected by telegraphic communication with the rest of the colony, because there was about twenty miles of debateable country through which the Government had not the courage to take the wire. There were only two Maoris to oppose them, and of these one was an old lady. It was said that the Government followed a. peace policy—he called it a cowardly and truculent policy. He did not advocate a fighting policy, but there was a mean between a cowardly policy and a fighting policy. At present there was no confidence felt by the ■settlers —the tomahawk was still hanging over their head. It was nothing but the old sugar and blanket policy nursing another war. It was the policy expressed in the prayer " Give peace in our time, O Lord." but it was onlj postponing the breaking out of war. The natives were employed on the roads, but how did they expend their pay ? Was it not in powder and guns ? Were they not laying in warlike stores ? He thought the Government might fairly be congratulated on a certain amount of success in the operation of the Land Transfer Bill, but it might have been greater had they adopted the mode of sending paid lecturers to explain its provisions. The bill was only a convenience to th« publifi. It did not bri"g in money like the Annuities and Insurance Act. He did not think the falling off in the revenue was attributable to the European war and might easily have been foreseen. He did not expect an Education Bill or Insolvency Bill would be passed this session. In speaking of the telegraph the Government might have referred to the great amount of dissatisfaction that prevails throughout the country at its management, and thought the Barton case might have been referred to in the Speech. It was more important than the fact that the reduction in the Telegraph charges had resulted in an increase of business.

The Hon. Mr GISBORNE, in replv, said if the speech of the hon. member for Timaru (Mr Stafford) had been described as courteous, the speeoh of the hon. member who had just sat down was the very opposite. It was petulant and querulous. As to the money spent without appropriation, the time to call that in question and give a full explanation was when the Government came down to the House with an ad-interim Appropriation Bill. As to the San Francisco service, the whole question had been debated last session. An amendment, embodying the very ideas now propounded by Mr Gillies had been brought forward by Mr Hall, but Mr Gillies himself had voted against it on two occasions. The Webb contract was in exact accordance with Mr Gillies' own views last session, and it was for the hon. member to explain how that which he bad approved last session he now disapproved. In the two divisions by which the House had declared its mind on the subject, the tellers were Mr Gillies and Mr Macandrew. The sum specified was £40,000, which was the sum in the contract —the coastal route in the resolution was the very coastal route of the contract. The Postmaster-General had only faithfully carried out the decision of Parliament, and it was ridiculous to blame him for doing so. As to the hon member's views of our relations with the natives, he was afraid if he (Mr G.) was entrusted with the defence of the colony that during the time he was trying to discover the mean between cowardico and fighting, the country would be in a blazo of war, and all progress in colonisation at once put a stop to. (Applause.) As to the remark about the A.nnuities scheme being pushed because it raised money, it was not worthy of a reply. That measure had met with cordial acceptance from both sides of the House, and the ■Government were anxious to extend its advantages from far higher motives than those bo unworthily suggested. With respect to the general dissatisfaction with the Telegraph Department, the very fact that the reduction in the price of messages would of itself account for the fact that the revenue from it had increased. It must be that more business had been done in consequence. In other words that the public had showed their increased confidence in its management by using it more largely than before. He thought he had touched upon the principal points in the hon. member's speech that were worthy of any reply. Mr M'LEAN (member for Waikouaiti) ■hortly addressed the Houso. Other members had been beating about the bush. He would come at once to the point, and say that he did not agree with the congratulations to the Governor in calling the Parliament oo late in the year. Two months ago he could well have come up here, as he was doing nothing, but in a few weeks he must hurry away down. The rest of his remarks seemed aimed at the Colonial Treasurer, who, in his opinion, should never have bee% sent home at all.

Mr BUNNY replied to the observations of the last speaker, and stated his conviction that if the Assembly had been called together any

sooner he did not see that anything could have been gained. Mr T.L. SHEPHERD addressed the House, but a few minutes after he hid commenced the Speaker's attention was called to the state of the House. The bell being rung, a house was made, whereupon the hon. member resumed, and aftur an interval the Speaker's attention was again called to the state of the House, and the bell being l-ung, a house was again made. The hon. member then intimated that he had finished his speech. The motion was put to the House, and carried on the voices. A committee was then appointed to prepare the address, and in the meantime the House adjourned for ten minutes. On resuming, The SPEAKER informed the House that the committee whose duty it was to prepare the address for presentation to his Excellency had brought it up for adoption by the House. It was still competent for any hon. member to move, an amendment upon it. Mr MACAW DREW pointed out that there was btu'ely a quorum, and it would not* be complimentary to his Excellency to pass the reply to the address while the House was in such a state. The bell having been rung, and the members assembled, The SPEAKER announced that the question before the House was that the reply be ordered to be presented by the whole House. Mr FOX then moved that the reply to the speech be taken into consideration to-morrow. The motion was carried. PAPERS. Mr M'LEAN laid upon the table the Seventh Annual Report of the Working and Progress of the New Zealand Telegraph Department. ADJOURNMENT. Mr FOX then moved the adjournment of the House. The House accordingly adjourned at twenty minutes past eleven until half-past two on Thursday. THURSDAY, AUGUST 17. The Speaker took the chair at half-past two o'clock. NEW MEMBER. R. H. Bhodes, Esq., member for Lyttelton, was sworn in and took his seat. ADDRESS IN REPLY. The SPEAKER announced that he had waited upon his Excellency that morning, and he had been pleased to appoint two o'clock to-morrow as the time at which he would be prepared to receive the members of the House for the purpose of presenting the address in reply. PETITIONS. Mr BROWN" presented a petition from forty-two settlers of Wakanui, relative to their having been deprived of certain land in the province of Otago. Mr HALL presented a petition from certain licensed victuallers of the province of Canterbury, asking the House to amend the existing act relating to their business. Mr THOMPSON presented two petitions from settlers in the province of Otago, with respect to educational matters in that province. Mr T. L. SHEPHERD presented a petition from 24-0 miners on the Otago Goldfieids, with reference to existing regulations. Mr WHITE presented a petition from 1600 inhabitants of the county of Wostland, praying that the Permissive Bill of Sir Wilfred Lawson should be passed by the House. Mr WHITE also presented a petition from about 600 miners in the Kanieri district, praying to be exempted from the road assessment of that district. The petitions were ordered to lie on the table. PAPEES. The Hon. Mr GISBORNE laid on the table a number of papers, but the hon. gentleman being inaudible in the gallery their purport could not be ascertained. THE CHINESE IN OTAGO. Mr HAUGHTON asked the hon. the Premier whether the attention of the Government had been directed to the large immigration of Chinese in the province of Otago, and the probable results of such immigration upon the permanent settlement of the country ? Mr EOX said he could answer by simple negative. The Government had received no official communication on the matter up to the present time. If they did receive any such communication they would take some action upon it. TELEGRAPH EXTENSION. Mr MERVYN asked the Government whether there was any probability of the line of telegraph being extended at an early period from Naseby to Alexandra or Clyde ? His object in asking the question was to know whether the answer given on the. same question by the Hon. Mr Vogel last session was ini tended to be carried out* Since that time no steps had been taken to extend the line to the townships named, and since the opening of the line to Naseby the amount of business had so increased as to justify the extension to Alexandra. Mr GISBORNE said he was not certain whether it would be necessary to extend the line in the way asked for by the hon. member. He was not aware that the Telegraph Commissioner had given any such promise as that mentioned by the hon. member. The Telegraph Manager had informed the Government that it would not be advisable to extend the line as suggested by the hon. member. Mr Gisborne read that portion of the manager's report bearing on the subject. The expense would amount to some £2OOO, and he thought It undesirable to incur such an expenditure at present, but he-would bring the subject under ( the notice of Mr Sewell, and inform the hon. member of the result of their conference. EXPLANATION. The SPEAKER wished to make one or two

observations to the House. His attention had been called to the long list of notices proposed by one hon member. Of course it was competent for every hon member to make as many notices as he pleased, but some plan should be determined upon, so that the objectionable practice of one member taking up so-great a portion of the order paper might be obviated. THE COLONIAL TREASURER. Mr HALL, before the business was gone any further with, wished to point out that advices received by last mail gave no further information than was before in its possession of the probable time of the Colonial Treasurer's arrival in the colony. Mr FOX said that the official information received did not give any further intelligence in the mutter, but a private letter informed the Government that the Colonial Treasurer intended to leave after a very fow days, and that he would arrive by the incoming mail. RETURN. Mr HAUGHTON moved that a return in detail of all expenditure under the Registration of Electors Act, exclusive of salaries of Registration Officers, during the past financial year, be laid upon the table. His object in moving for the return was the enormous ex pense caused by the actions of Registration Officers during the late elections in their attempts to disfranchise electors. Mr GISBORNE explained that the expense referred to by the hon member had been caused by the Returning Officers and not by the Registration Officers. The expenses alluded to were necessary ones, and the Government had no objection to furnish the re- i turns asked for. j The motion was put and carried. [ MINING LEASES. ' Mr GILLIES moved for leave to bring in a bill to authorise the granting of leases of land in the Province of Auckland for mining purposes. In reference to the Speaker's remarks about the number of notices standing in his name, he would say that if any alteration were desired by any hon. member it would be better that he should make .some motion on the subject instead of singling him out for remark. The bill he proposed to bring in was to alter the existing mining regulations of the province. There were many industries which might be turned to profitable account —such as coal fields, &c, —which at present the Provincial Government had no power to grant leases for. There was also one simple alteration in the land regulations requisite which the present motion was the only means of carrying it into effect. Those were the reasons he had to offer, and he thought they would be sufficient to induce the House to pass the measure. Mr SWANSTON seconded the motion. Leave was given to bring in the bill, which was read a first time, and the second reading made an order of the day for next Thursdav. Mr HARRISON was of opinion that the bill should bo referred to the Goldfieids Committee. Mr GILLIES explained that the bill in no way referred to gold fields. At the same time he had made a mistake ; he thought himself it should be referred to the Waste Lands Committee. • The bill was therefore referred to the Waste Lands Committee. PRIVATE BILLS. The SPEAKER wished to ask the opinion of the House as to the practice to be pursued under the 296th Standing Order, which gave a very limited definition of what were private bills. By the rule the Speaker had no means of knowing whether a bill which appeared on the order paper was such a one as should be introduced as a private bill or not. He would suggest that members should allow him to see any bill they may intend to introduce. CEMETERY REGULATIONS. Mr GILLIES moved for leave to bring in a bill to regulate burials near the city of Auckland. The hon. member explained that the bill was for the purpose of enabling the Provincial Government not to open a new ceme tery, but to close the existing one, which was situated in the centre of a very populous neighborhood. Mr CREIGHTON seconded the motion. Leave was given to introduce the bill, which was read a first time, ordered to be printed, and the second reading made an order of the day for Thursday next. TOWNSHIP OE GISBORNE. Mr GILLIES moved that a copy of all correspondence and telegrams relative to the township of Gisborne, since the passing of The Grisborne Land Act, 1870, be laid on the table of the House. Members who were in the House last session would remember that an act was prssed empowering the General Government to deal with the natives in reference to the lands required for the township of Gisborne. The General Government had not published the necessary notice thirty days after the passing of the act, as directed by one of its clauses. He had written to the Government with reference to the lands, which should have come under his jimsdiction in- accordance with the terms of the act, but he had as yet received no official answer, nor indeed had his letter been acknowledged in any way. A second aed a third letter met with similar treatment. It was for these reasons he had brought "forward his motion. Mr M'LEAN said the Government would have no objection to furnish the return. It had been found impossible to comply with the terms of the act by proclaiming its conditions within the specified thirty days, and he thought a short amending act would be necessary. With reference to the non-receipt of any answer to the letters of the hon. member, he explained the omission by the faGt that he had been unable to reply himself, and the Colonial Secretary being absent at the time was the only way he could account for the oversight. Mr GISBORNE explained why answers had not been forwarded to Mr Gillies's letters.

Mr GILLIES-thought the excuse offered was a very feeble one. If the Colonial Secretary were absent, surely some one in the office should have been instructed to stite that the Secretary would reply on his return. ''The matter was one affecting the settlement of the country, and should have met with prompt treatment. THE SAN FRANCISCO STEAMERS. Mr GILLIES moved that a return be laid on the table of the House, showing the number of passengers and amount of freight carried coastwise within the colony by the San Francisco mail steamers on each trip ; as also the number of passengers and amount of freight carried by these vessels between the colony and Honolulu and San Francisco. He considered the House should be furnished with -every information on such a subject. He had no other object to serve than to obtain the return for general information. The motion was agreed to. * THE LUNA. Mr GILLIES moved for a return showing the total expenditure' during the year ended 30th June, 1871, in respect to the steamer Luna; the number of passengers and amount of cargo carried by her on each trip; an account of all moneys received for freight or passage money; and on what account such passengers were at the time travelling. Mr M'LEAN said the Government would have r-o objection to comply with the resolution, although he could not undertake to supply the hon member with the information asked for by the latter part of his motion. It would be simple impudence to inquire from passengers on what business they were travelling. Mr GILLIES would substitute for the latter part of the motion the words "whether at the time such passengers were travelling on private or public business." The matter was one seriously affecting the interests of the private steamship companies, and some explanation should be offered. The motion for thereturn was then agreed to. THE TELEGRAPH LIBEL CASE. Mr GILLIES moved that a copy of the proceedings in the cases of Regina v Barton, and Regina v Lemon, and of all documents, correspondence, and telegrams relating thereto be laid on the table of the House. In the papers laid on the table theso cases had been referred to, and he simply desired that the House should be placed in possession of the fullest information on the subject, as it was extremely probable the case would come before the House in another shape. Mr EOX explained that the Government would be quite prepared to supply any filed or official telegrams, but there were some of a different nature, which they would not care to lay before the House. On this understanding, the motion was passed. APPOINTMENTS IN THE CIVIL SERVICE. Mr COLLINS moved for a return up to the 31st July, 1371, in continuation of the return hud upon the table of the House last session on the motion of Mr W. Harrison, showing the number of appointments made in the various departments of the Civil Service of the colony, the amount of their respective salaries, and the nature of their duties ; such return to distinguish the persons appointed in accordance with the regulations of the Civil Service Act, from those (if any) who have not been so appointed. He offered his motion in no spirit of hostility to the Government, but because there were many people of the poorer classes who looked upon the creation of a number of new offices with a jealous eye. He did not mean to imply by the motion that the Government had rewai-ded their supporters for their adhesion by the placing of them in Government situations, but there were people ousido fche Hotise who did not look upon the matter in such a lenient way ae he did. In justice to a number of his constituents, he was bound to bring his motion before the House. Mr EOX was not sure whether the hon. member did intend to censure the Government or not. No doubt he had done it from a desire to exculpate the Government from those unjust charges which had been expressed outside the House. (Hear, hear, from Mr Collins.) The Government had made no other appointments than those authorised by the House, but for all that he maintained that there were exceptional cases in which the Govcrnment would have to exercise a considerable amount of discretion. As the hon. member had referred to the extreme poverty of the community, aud he would not doubt that some poverty in certain directions did exist, he would express his opinion that the poor man cry had been made a great deal too much of. Some of these poor men took a very active official part in political demonstrations in a way that would mark them as anything but poor men. However, the Government would accept the hon. member's remarks in all sincerity, and the return asked for would be furnished. EREE USE OE THE TELEGRAPH. Mr COLLINS moved for a return of the names of all persons, not being officers of the General or Provincial Governments, to whom the use of the Telegraph has been given without payment; stating in each case the reasons why, and the authority under which any such porson was allowed to have the use of the Telegraph without payment. He had only to say in explanation of his bringing' this motion forward that a general opinion prevailed outside the House that the -Telegraph wires were employed in a very unfair manner by persons who had no better claim to do so than that they wer9 supporters of the Government. Mr FOX said this motion was couched in terms evincing not quite so charitable a disposition as the other one proposed by the hon member, and he thought it rather meant mischief. His answer would be but a short one. He entirely denied that it had been the habit of the Government to place the telegraph wires at the disposal of parties who were not entitled to use them ; therefore the Government could only decline to give the informa-

lion asked for by the hon member, who must be very well aware that in conducting the business of the country under responsible government—in fact under any governmentthere must be circumstances under which the Government were entitled to use the Post Office and Telegraph Office in the ordinary conduct of its business. If that power were taken away it would be productive of very great inconvenience. The House had acquiesced in the bestowal of that power, and if hon. members were not satisfied with the manner in which it had been employed they could take from the Government the power to frank its own messages. The rule he had laid down was simply this: that wherever the question was of such a character that he would not be called upon to enter into it but for his official position, he did not feel that under such circumstances he was bound to pay the expense of his letter in reply. He thought the Government was perfectly justified in using both the Post Office and Telegraph Office in such cases ; and he would repeat that it roust be left to Ministers' discretion. If they had not the power to put a 2d stamp on the letters, then the sooner they were put out of power the better. Mr STAFFORD thought the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government had rather let the motion go further than' Mr Collins intended. There was no desire to ask for the subject matter of communications, but merely that the public outside should have an-- opportunity of knowing to what extent the telegraph was used in the manner spoken of. He was of opinion that" the telegraph should be altogether removed from official administration; and he believed it was in support of that view that his hon. friend had moved his motion. He altogether agreed that the Government should have power to frank its own correspondence, but that was a very different question, he apprehended, to giving to outsiders the use of the telegraph. Mr FOX was not aware of any instance of the use of the telegraph having been given to any person who was not in correspondence with himself. Mr STAFFORD was quite prepared to accept the statement of the hon member. Mr GISBORNE supported the view taken by Mr Fox. Mr CREIGHTON thought there was no necessity for the virtuous indignation of the Colonial Secretary. There was no use in beating about the bush in the matter. It was well known that they had placed the wire at the service of their supporters, but to relieve them of what they so much dreaded he would move the addition to the ttmtion of the words " except on Native affairs." Mr FOX said the amendment made the motion none the less objectionable than in its original form. The mere insertion of the word Native would not by any means meet the difficulty. There might be Fenian or any .other difficulties to contend with, and he •'always held that while there was responsible .Government, they should have the control of Sthe/telegraph wires. Other Governments had -used them, and he -would always accord to tbim 'the full liberty he claimed for himself. Mr HALL could not agree with the right claimed by the Premier to use the line free in his semi-official capacity. If the Government wished to use the telegraph in such a manner they should pay for it as much as the editors of newspapers should. There were very grave suspicions abroad that the Government had abused the power resting in their hands, and if they had not done so, as they had asserted, why should they object to lay the return on the table. The Premier had alluded to the use made of the wire by the late Government. As a member of that Government he would be happy to see the return laid upon the table. Mr FITZHEKBERT could not endorse all that Mr Hall had stated. He was sorry that the question had cropped up in such a way as to give rise to so much unpleasantness, but to show that he had no intention of supporting any hostile motion he would walk out of the House on a division. Mr COLLINS said that after hearing all that had been said he was convinced now, if he was not before, that an improper use had been, made of the wires. He did not object to the Government for franking their letters, but he did object to out-and-out supporters of the Government having the free use of the wires to the detriment of persons who had just as good a right. The refusal of the Government to furnish the report he could assure tbem did them ao good. He would press the motion. Mr Creighton's motion was then put, and the Speaker declared it to be negatived on the voices. A division being called for, the result was as follows : Ayes, 25 ; noes, 30. The original motion was then put and declared to be negatived. The House again divided, the following being the result: —Ayes, 20 ; noes, 31. The motion was therefore negatived. THE MOTUEKA ELECTION. The SPEAKER announced that ho had fixed to-morrow for the gentleman whom Sir D. Monro had nominated in support of his petition to attend. After the sitting of the House he would appoint a Chairman, and fix the next day (Saturday), to commence proceedings. THE DELIVERY OE MAILS. Mr T. L. SHEPHERD moved that a Return be laid on the table showing the number of days taken for the delivery of mails during the last ten years to and fro between London and Dunedin, London and Lyttelton, London and Wellington, London and Nelson, London and Auckland, and London and Hokitika; such return to show the names of the contractors (if any), the route by which such mails were conveyed, and the annual rate of subsidy paid by the colony (if any) for the whole or any portion or portions of such mails. He moved

for the return, because some discussion was likely to take place later in the session on the same, subject. The return would enable members to trace the improvement with which the service has been performed, and enable them to judge whether they were receiving value for their money, and whether tliey were receiving their mails any quicker than by the Suez route. He did not apprehend that the return would be a very expensive one, and he did not intend to withdraw it in accordance with the suggestion of a member who objected to it on that ground. A suggestion had been made which he would accept, viz., the insertion of the words " by steamers" in the second line. Mr REYNOLDS said the hon. member had referred to a private conversation, which he considered bad taste. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr Reynolds) represented a large mercantile constituency, and they did not require any return. As was well known by every hon. member of the late House, he had an objection to all unnecessary expenditure in printing, or preparing useless returns. He had some experience of the hon. member's proclivity for asking for returns. In another legislative body in this colony Mr SHEPHERD : I rise to a point of order. The hon. member could not refer to his conduct in another place. The SPEAKER ruled that Mr Reynolds was quite in order. The only place he could refer to was the Legislative Council. Mr GISBORNE said he was glad the amendment had been made, because the Government could not be expected to supply the number of letters brought by all vessels, including sailing ships. Much of the information asked for could already be found in the records, but the Government would be happy to supply any additional information in their power. The motion was put, and a division being called for, resulted as follows :—Ayes, 10; noes, 29. The motion was therefore negatived. CROWN LANDS. Mr M'GILLIVRAY moved that a return be laid on the table showing approximately the acreage of lands in each province held by the Crown, particularising those portions which had been confiscated under any acts of the General Assembly. He concurred with thd member for Dunedin that they should not sail for expensive and needless returns, but he called for the return because he thought it necessary, with the colonising schemes they had in hand, that the quantity of land at the disposal of the Crown should be ascertained. Mr MERVYN seconded the motion, and at the same time would point out that a return of a similar nature asked for by him last session had not been laid before the House. Mr M'LEOD supported the motion for many important reasons, one being that people might be induced to emigrate to New Zealand from Canada by the San Francisco route. During a visit to Canada he had discovered that a great many of the people were desirous of emigrating to New Zealand, and he thought a statement of the waste lands available should be made, so that those persons should know what prospects they had of finding land for intending settlers. Mr REEVES said it would perhaps assist the cause of the mover of the motion and the Government in obtaining the return by mentioning that a return was obtained in the province of Canterbury some two years ago which gave the information required so far as that province wasconcerned. The mostof the land remaining unsold was classed under the heads first class, pastoral and agricultural land, and second class, and third ditto, while under a fourth head was classed the worthless land. That return was extant, and could be obtained by the Government on application. Mr FITZHERBERT thought a very erroneous impression would be produced if they were to publish returns which could not embrace a large amount of land which came under no classification at all. He would suggest that the return should include all land in possession of the natives. Mr MACANDREW mentioned that a similar return to that mentioned by Mr Reeves existed in Otago. An Hon Member thought much of the information might be obtained without coming to that House. The only information the members might have any difficulty in obtaining would be as to the confiscated lands. He would like to see the whole information required in one book. Mr BUNNY supported that view. Mr FOX, apologising for interrupting the debate, suggested that the House should sit till six o'clock to complete the order paper. Mr STAFFORD was glad the return had been called for, because it would be very useful in connection with the public woiks scheme. He thought the mover should accept those useful returns which had been mentioned as being available. Mr FOX said the Government would be glad to place in possession of the House any returns they were already in possession of, in addition to those which had been spoken of by Mr Reeves and Mr Macandrew. The motion was put, and agreed to. GOLDPIELDS COMMITTEE. Mr HARRISON moved that the number of members of the Goldfields Committee be extended to eleven, and that the name of Mr Tribe be added. He pointed out that at present Westland was in a considerable minority in the committee ; in fact they were represented by only one member. Mr M'LEAN said the Government had no objection whatever to the motion. THE COASTING TRADE. Mr GISBORNE moved for leave to bring in a bill intituled " An Act to admit foreign ships to the coasting trade in New Zealand." The act would assimilate the law here to the law in England. Leave was given. The bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday next.

TIME OF SITTING. Mr FOX moved that until otherwise ordered this House will commence its sittings at half-past two o'clock p.m., and that Mr Speaker will leave the chair at half-past five p.m., resuming it (when necessary) at half-past seven p.m. The-motion was ordered to be considered on Tuesday. CARRYING OP MAILS IN OTAGO. Mr BROWN moved that there be laid oh the table a return, giving the name of each tenderer, also the amount of their respective tenders for the carrying of her Majesty's mails in the province of Otago during the last financial year. It was a return that would be a most useful one, and he hoped the House would pass it. The motion was agreed to. RESIDERT MAGISTRATE'S COURTS, OTAGO. Mr MERVYN moved for a return of the number of civil and criminal cases ; also the amount received by way of fees and fines in the various Resident Magistrates' Courts in the Province of Otago for a period of three years, terminating 30th June, 1871. The motion was agreed to. AUCKLAND GAS COMPANY. Mr O'RORK> moved that leave be'given to bring in a bill to authorise the Auckland G-as Company (Limited) to break up streets and bridges, and to lay down pipes, &c.; and to make and construct other works for supplying the City of Auckland and its vicinity with gas. Thehon.member said it wasnotnecessary to go into the scope of the bill, but if it were allowed to be read a first time he would explain on its second reading what its contents were. Leave was given, the bill was read a first time, ordered to be referred to a Select Committe, and the report ordered to brought up on Tuesday week Leave was given, the bill was read a first time, ordered to be referred to a select committee, and the report ordered to be brought up on Tuesday week. PETITIONS COMMITTEE. Mr T. KELLY moved that the name of Mr Peacock be added to the Public Petitions Committee. The motion was agreed to. The consideration of the orders of the day was postponed till next day. Notices of motion having been given the House adjourned at a quarter-past six until a quarter to two o'clock to-morrow.