General Assembly of New Zealand.

New Zealander, Volume XVIII, Issue 1726, 24 September 1862, Page 4

General Assembly of New Zealand.

[UV OUU OWN REPORTER.]

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

FRIDAY, AUGUST 29th, 1862. The Speaker took the Chair at twelve o'clock, TELEGRAPHIC COMMUNICATION.

Major RICHAUDSON, in the absence of Mr. Cargill, asked, " Whether it is the intention of Government to take any steps towards the establishment of Telegraphic Communication between the Provinces ?" The Hon. Mr. WARD said this was one of those objects which he had always strongly desired to sec carried out as soon as possible. At present, however, wo were frittering away a fine fortune in paying our debts. £15,00') surplus which had been placed on the Estimates of the late Government, and which might now have been applied to Electric Telegraph must now go to the Duke of Newcastle, lie trusted, however, that some means might yet be found for carrying on these important works. The expense of Steam Communication having been entirely borne on the Customs Revenue, this, which was a true colonizing question, might fairly perhaps be charged upon the Territorial Revenue. The lion, mover had some control over that revenue, and if he, or the authorities of any other Province, would devise a way by which it might be applied to this purpose, the General Government would give their best aid to the project, hut it was impossible to do it at the present time out of the Customs Revenue, and desirable as the object was if left to the General Government be feared it would have to stand over for another year.

APPOINTMENT (IF JUDGES

Mr. FITZHERBERT moved, "That inasmuch as, by a recent decision, this House has affirmed that, in future, Judges of the Supreme Court may be appointed from among the Members of the Bar in the Colony, with advantage to the public service; and whereas it is desirable to remove some impediments that may otherwise tend to prevent this wish of the House from being carried out in practice; and further, in order to guard from suspicion, under the new arrangements contemplated, that high character for impartiality so essential to be maintained by the Bench; —this House desires to record its opinion, that in future no Judge of the Supreme Court ought to be appointed to a Scat in the Legislature."—He did not bring this forward with any reference to past transactions, but solely with a view of elevating and protecting the bar of this country. Mr. WELLS had much pleasure in seconding the motion, believing that the judicial bench could not be too far removed from political influences. Mr. STAFFORD was afraid the motion might have a personal appearance outside. The present Chief Justice was a member of the Legislature, and with great advantage to the country. Our legal legislation had been much improved by that gentleman's activity and attention in the other House; and there never had been the shadow of a charge of partisan impartiality brought against him. It appeared to him that if there was to be an entire separation of judicial and political functions, the political authorities should have no power whatever to interfere with the exercise of judicial functions; and he did not see why any distinction should be made between Judges and Magistrates, half a dozen paid magistrates having seats in this Legislature at this time. Unless he saw the motion thus amended he could not support it, as it was too onesided and personal. Mr. MOORHOUBE supported the motion and dissented from Mr. Stafford's objections. The higher Judges were not mere administrators of law, but the interpreters of it, and he thought therefore they should not assist in making them. Ho agreed that stipendiary magistrates ought not to be in the other House either, nor the Attorney-General. Major RICHARDSON would support the motion. The opinion of the Judges might be obtained on our legislation without their taking part in controversy in the Legislature Mr. CARLETt )N hoped the House would not pass this resolution. It was extremely improper at the present time, and wotdd if passed might give rise (most unjustly) to great suspicion that their motive was one of revenge for certain occurrences which had taken place in the other House. Mr. FOX was sorry to hear the very improper remarks of the last speaker. He warmly supported this motion, and thought it was extremely necessary; for suppose a Judge to commit himself on the floor of the House to a legal opinion in argument with a counsel who also had a scat in the House, what position would he be in when he took his seat on the Bench, and this same counsel, perhaps, argued a case before him involving the same point ? And he considered this motion si; much the more important, now that the House had decided that gentlemen in the colony who had previously taken part in the politics of the country, inighi be appointed to the oflice of judge. Mr. COLBNSO would support the motion, if it were made to have a retrospective effect. Mr. FITZHERBERT replied to the remarks of Mr Carjeton and Mr. Stafford und argued that

Judges of the Supreme Court being Judges of Appeal were in a very different position from other Judges and stipendiary magistrates, for the exclusion of whom from this Legislature, however, he would be glad to sec the hon. member for Nelson bring in a Bill himself. It would soon be that political offences would have to be brought before these Judges, and if this resolution was not passed now it would become more difficult every year. The question was then put, and tho House divided as follows:

Ayes, 19.—Messrs. Wolls, Munro, Thomson, Fcatherston, G. Graham, Moorhouse, Ormoml, Dick, Cookson, John Williamson, Richardson, W. W. Taylor, Jollie, Gillies, A. J. Richmond, Eox, Fitzherbert, Cargill, O'ltorke. Noes, 14.—Messrs. Nixon, Watt, Wood, James Williamson, Atkinson, Domett, Wilson, Colenso, Russell, Ward, Curtis, Bell, Stafford, and Carleton. The resolution was therefore carried. NATIVE LAND PURCHASE ORDINANCE. Mr. ORMOND brought up the Report of the select Committee on the petition of certain inhabitants of Hawkc's Bay, for enquiry into tho action of tho Civil Commissioners' Court in the case of Scully v. Colenso.

" The oommittee having considered •he subjoct referred to them, and taken evidence thereon, bog to report as follows: " That the information was taken before John Curling, Esq., one of Her Majesty's Justices of the Peace and Resident Magistrate. " That defendant was summoned by tho said John Curling to appear at the Resident Magistrate's Court at Napier. " That the case was heard and adjudicated by Col. Russell, who signed the judgment as Civil Commissioner and Resident Magistrate. " That your committee consider the use of the term " Civil Commissioner" in reference to the Court, as erroneous; there being not only no Civil Commissioners' Courts in New Zealand known to the law, but that no such Ceurt was held.

"That any Justice of the Peace for the Colony might have taken his scat on the Bench beside the Resident Magistrate, but that no one thought fit to do so. " That your committee, though seeing nothing in tho evidence to support the allegation contained in the second clause of the petition, does not consider itself empowered to act as a Court of Appeal from the decision of the Resident Magistrate.

" That your committee feel it their duty, without impugning the motives of the Government, to invite attention to the fact that under the " Native Land Purchase Ordinance" any person may be singled out for prosecution by the Government as the defendant; in the case referred to there has been, but that excepting in the Province of Auckland, the Ordinance may be violated with impunity by others. "That your committco arc also of opinion that the designation of a particular magistrate to try a particular case is calculated to impair public confidence, and is liable to very great abuse."

Mr. FOX, in seconding the motion, said, with reference to this Keport, that Colonel Russell had not been singled out to try this case, nor even directed to sit on the Bench, but simply to initiate the prosecution. As to the last clause but one of the report, the reason why prosecutions had only been instituted in Auckland was that in the former Province the power of prosecuting was delegated to the Provincial authorities. The case under consideration was quite an exceptional one. When he visited Hawkc's Bay, as representing the Government, Rcnata said to him the reason why the Natives despised our law was because we could not put in force, giving as an instance that they (the Government) could not turn Mr. Colenso off the piece of land which they gave to the Gospel long ago, upon which he (Mr. Fox) determined that it should be tried; the Missionary Society having resigned its claim to the land in question on the express condition that it was to be handed over to the Natives. It had been hinted that the Government did not put this Native Land Purchase Ordinance in force because of the large runholders illegally occupying Native land, but that was not the fact, as had it been put thoroughly in force it would not have affected the runholders to a hundredth part of the extent that it would the poor sawyers, wood cutters, shingle splitters, &c , scattered about the Native lands in the pursuit of their ordinary occupation, which seKmeda great hardship.

Mr. STAFFORD confirmed some of the remarks of the hon. member for Kangitikci. The Stafford Ministry had as far as he remembered never instituted but one prosecution under this Ordinance, and that was in the ease of Mr. St. Hill in Wellington, it being thought improper that a Government officer should be in illegal occupation of Native lands. For a long time they had had the opinion that it would be desirable cither to repeal the Act or to put it in force. Upon a rough kind of enquiry it was found that there were between 2,000 and 3,000 persons in illegal occupation of Native lands. Such a course of state trials would have caused so much excitement with a section of the population which had so large an influence over the Natives in the districts where they lived, that the then Government shrank from enforcing, as a general rule, the terms of this Ordinance.

Mr. COLENSO was about to speak when the SPEAKER interrupted the discussion, the Standing Orners forbidding any discussion on the bringing up of a report.

PAPERS. Mr. DOMETT laid on the table, Copies of all Correspondence with reference to resignation of Justices of the l'cace since Ist January, 1862. PRIVATE GRIEVANCE. Mr. JOLLIE brought up a further Report from the Private Grievance Committee. Report read. Till: PANAMA. KOUTE. Message No. ID was received from His Excellency enclosing "An Act for establishing Postal Communication with Great Britain by way of Panama. Rill read a first time, ami ordered to be read a second timejnext sitting day. PETITION. Mr. FOX presented a petition from John Howard Wallace. GOLD FIELDS MANAGEMENT BILL. This Rill was further considered in committee and reported with amendment, which was ordered to be considered next sitting day. .SUPPLY. The following resolutions come to yesterday in Committee of Supply were reported and adopted:— "That in the opinion of this committee the provision in ltho Civil List for the establishment of the General Government and for judicial salaries should bo increased. " That the following sums he granted to Her Majesty for the salaries and expenses of the undermentioned offices per annum:— Governor .£4,500

General Expenses " - - 500 "That this committee recommend to the House that a respectful Address be presented to His Excellency the Governor, requesting His Excellency to cause to be brought into the. House of Bepresentativos a Bill to amend the Civil List Act, 1858, in order that the above alterations may be carried into effect." Till-; MARINE BOARDS BILL Was considered in committee, reported without amendment, a third time, and passed exactly ns it left the select committee. CROWN LANDS BILL. The amendments made in the Bill in committee were adopted, and the Bill passed through its remaining stages. COMMITTEE OV BUPPLT. On motion of the Hon. CROSBIE WARD the House resolved itself into Committee of Supply. The Estimates were proceeded with for a short time, after which Mr. J. C. RICHMOND rose to move the following resolution:— "That this House will consider, with a strong desire to concur in them, any propositions that His Excellency with or through his Advisers, may submit to it for relieving the Kettlcrs of Tarauaki from their losses of property suffered during the late Insurrection, for replacing that settlement on a secure and permanent basis, and for assisting such of the inhabitants may not choose further to await the issue of His Excellency's policy with regard to that Province, to remove to and settle in other parts of the colony." —The House would perceive that the objects of the resolution were three, compensation for past losses, restoration of the settlement and assistance of such of the inhabitants as might wisli to remove from it. The first subject had already been thoroughly gone into by his hon. friend the member for Grey and Bell. It was clear the settlers did propose to remain in their own districts and defend their property, bat they were not allowed to They could, no*, however, have, any legal

claim on the Government. The greatest care has been used in husbanding the relief already granted to them; there need bo no doubt that if this were granted they would occupy tho safer parts of the districts and cultivate. Though they had no legal claim ho had always thought that the Colony should regard these losses as colonial ones, if tho finances permitted it. Then as to tho future position of this settlement—the question was whether tho House ought to devote itself to restoring that settlement, or to deporting the settlers and abandoning it. He thought the maintenance of the settlement was absolutely demanded by Sir George Grey's policy. His Excellency himself had stated again and again that the abandonment of Taranaki was not to be thought of. If it were to be continued, the settlers had so much more claim to the consideration of the House on account of the fitness they had shown for tho position, the dogged adhesiveness, the firmness, which they had shown from first to last. This feeling had all along been that it was their place to stick to that settlement till they were righted. It would bo out of place at this time to dictate to the Government what should be done, but he believed that if His Excellency should take immediate steps for reoccupying the Tataraimaka block and fixing posts in it, he believed that what they had heard from the Ngatiraanui tribes would he found to be mere bounce and the land would be taken in hand by the settlers and cultivated at once, as they were even now doing on the Bell Block. There were persons, however, who would not be likely to wait tho issue of the present policy, and he thought it was clear they should be allowed to leave both as a matter of policy and justice. An Act passed in 1860 empowering Superintendents of tho different Provinces to make free grants of land to Taranaki settlers was no longer in operation, and had not been acted upon to any extent because it was premature. He hoped the Provincial Governments would be able to make them some offer for the formation of a joint settlement.

Mr. MOORHOUSE thought the most practical way would be to refer this resolution to a select committee to call for persons and papers, and gather an idea for the information of the House before it rose of the amount required for the compensation of these settlers, which he thought should be made in full. Mr. HARRISON, bore testimony from 22 years experience, that so long as military operations were conducted on the defensive, the results would be the same—equally disastrous. The Taranaki claims he considered to Be intrinsically imperial, but thought the colony should do cveiytning it could, so far as compensation could be given, in money. Mr. FITZGERALD said the question of amount was to be considered as well as the principle. He did not oppose the member for Heathcote's proposition, but wished to know whether the committee was to consider the amount, or the question whether the settlers were entitled at all to compensation at the hands of this House. The Imperial Government he had always contended was really liable, but there was a secondary, a sentimental liability resting on this colony. He wanted an explanation from the hon. member for Heathcote.

Mr. J. C. RICHMOND said the result of a former committee was the appointment of u Commission to inquire into the amount of losses. With the Keport of this Commission the settlers were satisfied.

Mr. FOX waited, before proceeding further, to hear some explanation from the Government of their views upon this question. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON expressed a similar wish, and explained the intentions of the former committee which had been referred to. It was high time this question should be settled. There were matters referred to in the resolution which he thought it was very desirable should be referred to a select committee. Without legislation by this House the Provincial Governments would be powerless to grant land in accordance with part of the prayer of the petition.

The hon. Mr. DOMETT remarked that the hon. member had not told the House what was the opinion of the late Government on this question, and it might be assumed that he could not communicate anything of the sort to the House, not having done so in his speech at the commencement of the session. It could hardly be considered that the Government only a few days in office, could have any cut and dried scheme to lay before the House on this question. He agreed with what the hon. member did say about Taranaki on that occasion, but the Government had not got any particular plea to lay before the House on this subject; for this question more than any other' connected with the Natives was an Imperial question, and one that belonged to the Governor. His own individual views as a member of the Ministry with reference to those of the Governor were that the settlers of Taranaki ought to be compensated for their losses, and that loans should lie raised to compensate them. He did not in the least doubt that the Colony would bear the additional burden even though it exceeded the amount down on the Estimates as the revenue for next year. From the late news from Otago he had no doubt that the revenue would greatly exceed that put down in the Estimates. The second portion of the subject was the re-establishment of the settlement of Taranaki, with regard to which he had already stated the expressed opinion of the Government that it was a point of national honor to re-establish that settlement, if possible in a more prosperous state than ic had ever attained. AVith regard to the third point he had some doubt as to its propriety. The losses of the settlers should, he thought, only be relieved upon such terms as would tend to effect the second object (hear, hear), by keeping them on the spot to restore their farms and buildings. This was the only part of the resolution which he should demure to, and he should be exceedingly glad if the House expressed itself in favor of the proposition with that exception, and enabled the Government to bring down a plan which must involve the raising of a considerable loan for carrying out the two first objects of the resolution, which the Government would do at an early date if the House assented; indeed it would have been done before but for the Native Lands Bill occupying so much of the time of the House.

Mr. WATT thought it would be a matter of bad policy to require the .settlers to remain on the spot. He thought some scheme should be matured to provide some means by which those who cannot at present return to their lands may gain a livelihood in the other Provinces in the meanwhile, for he did not believe one in a dozen of those who had been settled at Taranaki would remain away from it.

Mr. FITZIIEKBERT said his opinion was that the Government ought at once to declare when the proper opportunity was for restoring that settlement. A substantial compensation should be freely given to the Taranaki settlers. He supported the motion in its entirety. Mr. FOX supported Mr. Moorchousc's proposition to appoint a Select Committee, and expressed his opinion of the necessity of doing something solid, real and substantial towards reinstating Taranaki. The hon. Mr. HELL thought the disappointment expressed that the Ministry had not been able to prepare a plan on this subject was neither founded on reason nor justice. The difficulty was immense. No one could say indeed that a satisfactory solution of it was possible at present. It did not depend upon a mere money vote, but on questions which no Ministry from whatever side of the House (even one taking the whole responsibility) could possibly undertake of itself to determine. The Crown by the terms of peace which it made with the Npatiawa tribe had imported into the case that kind of transaction in which any Colonial Ministry was entirely incapacitated tointerfere, and apart from those terms of peace the circumstances of the Tataraimaka raised a question which only the man who ruled Imperial interests in this country and could direct the movement of troops could at present say anything about. The hon. member for Bangitikei in bis statement of policy said that the Governor had not disclosed his intentions with respect to the Tataraimaka question, and that if he had it would not have been proper for the Ministry to communicate them to the House. That difficulty now stared them in the face, and would continue to do so until Sir George Grey shall see his way to make some declaration which might be made public. As the Native Minister, on whom the consideration of this question more particularly devolved, he had not yet been able to see his way to any such practical conclusion as would justify him in taking the initiative, which departmentally belonged to him. He looked upon this not as a matter of sentiment but entirely as a matter of business. Their first consideration should he their duty to the Taranaki settlers, and secondly what was their duty to the whole colony. The colony was bound not to make any mere partial compensation but sufficient to establish them in their former position, and it would be the duty of the Government to propose that whatever pecuniary relief should be given should be applied in such a way as to lead to the permanent establishment of the settlers in prosperity at Taranaki or some other place that might lie determined, so as not uselessly to fritter away the resources of the colony. He therefore looked for some practical result from the plan proposed by Mr. Moorhouse. The Government would be glad of the information which sucli a committee could obtain in order to guide the minds of the Government and the House to some satisfactory proposal for the benefit of the Taranaki settlers. At present they certainly did not see their way, but he was satisfied that they jvould be judged to bo as little liable on that account to the charge of want of sympathy to the Taranaki people as was the hon. member for Rangitikei to that which was most unjustly cast upon him (hear, hear). Mr. FITZGERALD moved, by way of Resolution, that whilst this Committee protests in the strongest terms against the liability of the Colony for the losses Endured by the settlor? in the kfa war on the

ground that the colonists were in no way responsible for that war, and that the greater part of the losses were incurred in consequence of the want of success of the military operations over which the settlers had no control, this Committee recommends that the House should entertain with favour a proposal to advance the sum required for the liquidation of these losses out of the Colonial Treasury pending the consideration of the proposed claim bv the Imperial Government, and this Committee recommends that it be referred to a Select Committee to inquire into the amount ot compensation claimed and the mode in which it may be advisable to charge the same temporarily upon the public resources of the colony. L :i - I '.' r . Mr. J. C. RICHMOND cordially thanked the hon. member for Ellesmcre for the form in which he had put his resolution. The Taranaki people had always felt that they had no legal but only a sentimental C Mr. JOHN WILLIAMSON concurred with the resolution except the words stating that the colonists were in no way responsible for the war He had always held that by the conduct and advice of the Stafford Ministry the colony was made responsible tor the war. . . , , Mr. MOORIIOUSE thought it was of the utmost importance those words should be retained, believing that Colonel Gore Browne would have gone into that war independently of the advice of his Ministers. It was important we should not make any uncalled for and unjustifiable admissions of responsibility, for he believed that if the case were properly put before tae people of England that this war arose not through our conduct but through the mismanagement of the Imperial Government, the recompense would be sure to follow. Some further discussion took place on tins subject. Mr. CAUGILL said the real question was how far they should lend their assistance to these Taranaki settlers, and how the assistance should be applied so as to perform the greatest permanent good to them j whether they could get it back again from the Imperial Government was a question that need not be considered now. , , Mr. FITZGERALD viewed with a great deal of jealousy the transfer of Government duties to Select Committees. Mr. SAUNDERS would like to see the resolution amended in the way referred to by the hon. member for Auckland West. In every other respect he should be desirous to support the resolution, and, as many other hon. members, no doubt, wished the resolution to contain; nothing but what they knewto be true; the hon. gentleman would be best consulting the interests of Taranaki and the wishes of the House by altering those words.

Mr. FITZGERALD said the whole tenor of the resolution was that we we were not responsible, and he should object to taking that principle out of it. Mr. SAUNDERS dissented. Losses were incurred by the want of success of military operations over which the settlers had no control, but it was not true to say they were in no way responsible for the war. Mr. FOX would also vote for the resolution if those six or seven words were left out. Major RICHARDSON cordially agreed with, the sentiments of the hon. member for Ellesmere and instead of taking those words out he would rather see it stronger. On the question being put, Mr. FITZGERALD'S motion was carried on the voices. The Chairman then reported the resolution to the Ilouse, and it was ordered to be considered next sitting day.

EXTRA SITTING DAY. On motion of Mr. BELL, resolved, That this House at its rising adjourn until Monday at noon. Some Notices of Motion having been given, the House adjourned at five minutes to eleven o'clock.

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER Ist. The Ilouse met at 12 o'clock, pursuant to adjournment.

RECOVERY OF DEBTB. Mr. STAFFORD presented a Petition from the Nelson Chamber of Commerce with reference to the difficulty and expense of the recovery of debts above the amount of £2O. Petition received. ESTABLISHMENT OF GOVERNMENT PRINTING PRESS.

Hon. Mr. WARD brought up the Report of the Government Printing Press Committee, which was read and received.

The following is the Report: GOVERNMENT PRINTING PRESS COMMITTEE

" Your Committee to whom was referred the consideration ot the Report of a Board of Officers appointed to inquire and report to the Government as to the expediency of establishing a Government Printing Press, having considered the matter referred to them, report as follows:

" By the establishment of a Government Printing Press two objects have been stated as likely to be gained. First, —a reduction of expense in the general printing of the Government during the year. Secondly, —an increase of the expedition and accuracy in the execution of the sessional printing. "Your Committee are of opinion that an establishment fit in every respect to perform all the work required for the various departments of the Government in a satisfactory and creditable way, must be large, well stocked with type and provided with valuable and bulky machinery.

" Though your Committee recognize to its full extent the probable value to the colony of such an establishment, they could not overlook the fact, that its removal from place to place, ou a change of the seat of Government would be attended with serious inconvenience and great loss. " For the purpose of facilitating the printing which the General Assembly requires to be performed with both speed and accuracy during its session, your Committee believe that a moderate establishment such as that proposed in the Report of the Board of Officers referred to your Committee would be found of consisiderable service, and might be transferred from one building to another or from one town to another without very great expense or risk; while out of session it would be well occupied without superseding all contract printing."

ELECTRIC TELEGRAPHS. Mr. CARGILL asked Ministers whether, in the event of the several provinces of the Middle Island undertaking the construction of Electric Telegraphs, Government will be prepared to leave the control of such telegraphs with the Provincial Governments, and allow them to retain the revenues to be derived therefrom.

The Hon. Mr. WARD after expressing his regret that it was not possible for the General Government itself to take up the question this session said there was nothing whatever to prevent the Provincial Governments taking up the subject and erecting lines of telegraph within their own boundaries, and if at a future time the General Government should deem it desirable to take the matter in its own hands, it would then be a matter for arrangement which could doubtless be made with the Provincial Governments. Mr. CARGILL considered the hon. member's reply very unsatisfactory. NOMINATION OF MAGISTRATES. Mr. MOORHOUSE, in moving, that in'the opinion of this House it is expedient that Superintendents of Provinces shall be called upon by Government to advise upon the fitness of intended nominations to the Commission of the Peace in their several Provinces, explained that he made this motion simply to elicit an opinion whether it would not be advisable to have some recognized person in each Province who should be consulted with in reference to appointments to the Commission of the Peace. He was certain that many very unsatisfactory appointments had been made. In the Province of Canterbury a Dr. Raynor had been appointed, certainly without reference to the Provincial Government, and his conduct had bech most improper. He got drunk several times a week at the neighbouring pothouses, was frequently guilty of contempt of Court, and occupied Native lands in open defiance of the law. Had the Provincial authorities been advised with, he could answer for it that that person never would hare been appointed. In moving this Resolution he did not mean that the appointments should necessarily be made upon the recommendation of the Superintendent, but he thought the Superintendent was in a better position to make such nomination than the Judges or the Bench of Magistrates. If the resolution were affirmed it was a mere expression of opinion and did not bind the Government to adopt it. Mr. MANTELL seconded the motion without remark.

The Hon. Mr. BELL saw no objection to the Government consulting the Superintendents of the different Provinces as to the appointment of J. P.'s, but if the hon. member meant that no appointments should be made without the consent of the Superintendent or that only persons nominated by the Superintendent should be appointed, the Government could not agree to it. Mr. MOORHOUSE did not mean that, but he did mean that the Superintendent was to be consulted as to all appointments. Mr. CARLETON said he did not approve of those pseudo laws, but he would vote for this resolution with some modification.

Mr. RUSSELL objected to this Resolution because while they at present knew where the responsibility rested, if this were passed they would not know that, but the General Government would take the recommendation ot the Superintendent, and alterant to throw the rosponfiibjlity upon thorn.

Mr. WELLS said he thought the Government §1 be left untrammelled. The Superintendent shoulfl !t have the power proposed to be given by the resnW lo, Mr. DOMETT thought that in making aprS?*the Government would certainly consult the 22? persons ;in the different Provinces, and amongst liN there could be no objection to consult the Sm** tendent, but it shouldjiot be laid down as an absd rule tliat the Superintendent must be consulted the expression of that opinion by the House theh member might as well withdraw the resolution "* Mr. FOX hoped the hon. member would not • draw the motion, but pres3 it to a division ifh» alone. He (Mr. P.) thought the resolution l* 10011 exceedingly fair one bnt it would perhaps be ami* 11 alter the word " advise." The Colonial Secretary said the Government would consult the leadingn? of each Province, an expression which he thought very vague. He trusted the hon. would not object to alter the; word " advise''- " confer with" and the House would then he th affirm the resolution. m Hk Mr. MOORHOUSE expressed his wiUingne. make the alteration, which was in fact more in ance with what he intended than the word used. Amendment agreed to. Mr. COLENSO said he was very R M to be abl support the resolution as amended. He could noth *\ supported the original. ""t^ Mr. WILSON moved, in amendment, the omission «* the words " to confer with the General Governm upon the fitness of intended" with a view to inse* a* following " by Government to state whether wioY their knowledge any objections exist to the Drorwi.«j .1 Mr. MOORHOUSE would have no object that amendment. ™

Mr. SAUNDERS hoped that amendment would n be agreed to, as it would be imposing an extrenj!! difficult and often impossible duty on Superintend* Mr. STAFFORD intended to vote against 2 resolution and amendment. What position, he asbrf would the Ministry be in if Legislative CW-'i passed a resolution of an opposite character. Hedis! approved of resolution which absolved the Ministry f ro their responsibility to the General Legislature flw hear.) ' v^r » Mr. JOLLIE approved of the amended resolution So long as we were to have Superintendents at all we should recognize and make use of them. Mr. WILSON withdrew his amendment. Mr. MOORHOUSE replied, and the question bei n » put, the motion was earned on the voices. " PRIVATE GRIEVANCE COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. JOLLIE, ordered that (hj several Reports of the Select Committee on Grievances be printed.

TARANAKI COMPENSATION.

Mr. MOORHOUSE moved, " That the Petition of the Superintendent and Provincial Council of Taranaki to His Excellency the Governor, together with the Resolution of Committee of Supply on the same subject, be referred to a Select Committee, with an instruction to enquire into and report upon the amount of losses sustained by the Taranaki Settlers during the war. Committee: Hon. Mr. Domett, Mr. Stafford Mr. John Williamson, Mr. Atkinson, Mr. Cargill and Mr. Fox—with power to call for persons, papers, and records." Agreed to without discussion.

AUCKLAND WASTE LANDS ACTS. Mr. CARLETOX moved ■ That the Waste Landj Act Amendment Act be read a second time."

After a few observations from Mr. JOHN WIL LIAMSON and the COLONIAL SECRETARY, an arrangement was come to that this Bill and the Waste Lands Act Amendment Bill (No. 2), should be referred to a Select Committee, of which notice was given. The Bill was then read a second time. PETITION. Mr. FOX presented a Petition from J. H. Wallace and others, with reference to the Native Lands"Bill, claiming a pre-emptive right under New Zealand Company's scrip, on tbe Manawatu block. GOLD FIELDS MANAGEMENT BILL. The amendments made in Committee on this Bill were adopted, the Bill read a third time and passed, and ordered to be transmitted to the Legislative Council for their concurrence therein. SUPPLY RESOLUTION—TARANAKI COMPENSATION The Resoluiion come to in Committee of Supply on Friday, was reported and adopted by the House. PANAMA ROUTE BILL. On the motion of the COLONIAL T{l£ JSURER, this Bill was read a second time, and oVeeredtobe considered in Committee to-morrow. COMMITTEE OF SCPPLT. On the motion of the COLONIAL TREASURER, the House went into Committee of Supply. Dr. MONRO, in moving that a respectful Address be presented to His Excellency, requesting him to recommend to this House to make provision for paying to the Province of Marlborough the expenses incurred by that Province in passing through the Legislature the Private Act of last Session, entitled the " Picton Railway Act, 1861," to which Act the Crown has refused its assent, addressed the House in a speech of considerable length, showing the utility of the railway proposed, and raising the question whether a Ministry responsible to this House could, constitutionally, advise tbe Imperial Government to disallow a Bill, and especially a private Bill, passed by both Houses of this Legislature. Mr. FOX opposed the motion. After some further remarks from the mover, to the effect that he trusted the Hou g would again pass, this time as a public Act, the Bill which had been so unjustly and unwisely disallowed. The question was put, and the motion negatived on the voices. PAPERS. The Hon. COLONIAL SECRETARY laid on tbe table, papers relative to the representation of British Colonies in the International Exhibition. NATIVE LANDS BILL. This Bill was further considered in Committee till a late hour, when progress was reported, and leave obtainf d to sit again to-morrow. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt of a Message from the Legislative Council, intimating that they had passed the Imprisonment for Debt Bill, to which tbey requested the concurrence of the House. Bill read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Also that they had passed the NATIVE RESERVES ACT AMENDMENT ACT

with certain amendments, to which they desired the concurrence of the House. Ordered that the amendments be taken into consideration to-morrow. The House then adjourned at about eleven o'clock.

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 1862. The Speaker took the Chair at a few minutes past twelve o'clock. INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL ENDOWMENT. Mr. CARTER asked the Colonial Secretary, On what conditions a Grant of a portion of the Town Belt belonging to the City of Wellington was made to the Wesley an Body existing in Wellington, and wflet! ?" the conditions of such Grant have been complied with? The hon. Mr. DOMETT said the Provincial Government of Wellington should be able to give the hon. member fuller information than he could. The condition of Grant was that it should be an endowment tor the formation and maintenance ol an Industrial School, but no time was mentioned at which the school should be erected. The land, he believed, had been let, but the rents were merely nominal. Further information he could not give the hon. member, not haying been able to see the Grant as it was not recorded IB anv public office in Wellington. . Mr. CARLETON moved, That the duties ana powers of the Library and Printing Committee be tne same as those imposed and given in former SessionAgreed to. TAPERS. The hon. Mr. DOMETT laid upon the table,— Further Papers relative to the apportionment ot tne public debt between the Province ot Otago and bontc* land. . • Papers relative to the introduction of German inw» grants into the Colony.

THE lIAWIvE'S BAY TRIAL. f Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved, That the Report 01 the Select Committee on the Petition of the inhabitants of Hawke's Bay be printed forthwith. ~ Mr. COLENSO made a personal explanation vim reference to some remarks of Mr. Fox's on a previo occasion. , * Mr. FOX would move an amendment. As ne n»" before said, two clauses had been introduced into trie Report of which we had no cognizance, and coal not have agreed to—the one imputing to the Governi partiality in prosecutions under the " Native 1* Purchase Ordinance," and the other condemned tn practice of designating a particular Magistrate to trj a particular case—a practice which had not W* followed in this case, Col. Russell not having been instructed to sit on the Bench. There was, therelore, no ground for that imputation on the Govenimen He moved that the Report be referred back tq tn Committed for tlja purpose of reconsidering rW oknse, ■ ! f

Mr. CARLETON seconded the amendment, am said no imputation had been intended. After some remarks from the hon Mr Ward, hon, Mr. 8011, Mr. Wilson, and hon. Mr. Russell, the question was put and the amendment of Mr. Pox On the motion as amended being put, a division was ealled for, and the amendment was carried by 21 to 7. RECOVERY OF DEEDS AT NELSON. Mr. STAFFORD moved, That tho Petition to this House of the Nelson Chamber of Commerce, asking for the establishment in Nelson of Courts for enabling debts under £IOO to bo recovered, be printed. He moved this to place upon record the very unfair position in which the Provinco had been placed for two years, and he trusted that the Government would satisfy tho wishes of the peoplo of Nelson by the adoption of one of three courses,—appointing a Resident Magistrate under the Jurisdiction Extension Act, appointing a District Court Judge, by the delegation of tho necessary powers, by the Supreme Court Judge under tho new Supreme Court Act. Motion agreed to. NATIVE RESEKVEB ACT AMENDMENT RIM,. The amendments mado by the Legislative Council in this Bill were adopted. MESSAGE FROM HIS EXCELLENCY. Message No. 12 was received from the Government, transmitting estimatos of expenses of members. Ordered to be referred to Committee of Supply. NATIVE LANDS BILL. The House then went into Committee on the Native Lands Bill, and considered its claims for a considerable time. Ordered to be reported on Ihursday. ADJOURNMENT. Mr. WATT moved that tho House do at its rising adjourn till Thursday at five o'clock. After some discussion, it was resolved that tho adjournment should be till three o'clock on Thursday, with the intention of sitting for two or three hours only. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On motion of the COLONIAL TREASURER, the House resolved itself into Committee of Supply, and proceeded to consider the Estimates in detail. I'irilLlC RESERVES ACT. A Message was received from the Legislative Council informing the House that they had passed a Bill to amend the " Public Reserves Act, 1554." Bill read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday. THE NATIVE LANDS BILL was then further considered in Committee, reported with amendments, and ordered to be considered on Thursday. The House then adjourned at half-past 10 o'clock.

Chief Justice - ■ 1,700 Three Puisne Judges at 1,500/. each 4,500 Colonial or Chief Secretary - 1,000 Colonial Treasurer - 1,000 Minister for Native Affairs - 1,000 Postmaster-General - 1,000 Attorney-General 1,000 Under Secretary (permanent) 600 Assistant Treasurer " 600 Assistant Law Officer " 600