GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Saturday, August 11, 1849.

New Zealander, Volume 5, Issue 341, 14 August 1849, Page 3

GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Saturday, August 11, 1849.

Present: — The Governor-in Chief, the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney. General, the Colonial Treasurer, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Barstow, Lieut.-Colonel Hulme, Major Matson, and Mr. Kempthornc. The Colonial Chaplain read prayers. Minutes read and confirmed. The Colonial Treasurer presented the following petition, signed by 249 person* of various denominations, praying for a modification of the Marriage Ordinance, Scsb. 8, No. 7i which, on the motion of the honorable member, aeconded by the Surveyor- General, was read and received. To His Excellency the Govrrnor.in-Chief of New Zealand, and the Honourable the General Legislative Council, now assembled at Auck knd. The humble Memorial of a number of the Inhabitant! of Auckland and its vicinity of various classes, and different religious denominations (Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Wesleyans, Roman Catholics, Independents, Baptists, &c.) ice.) Respectfully sheweth, That the Marriage Ordinance for the Colony of New Zealand (S siion 8, No. 7), in addition to other mtttert which interfere with its applicability to th» circumstances of the Colony, is especially objectionable, as containing provisions which confer upon Ministers connected with the Churches of England and Rome exclusive powers to grant Licenses for Marriage on account of their ecclesiastical position and rela- ' tions; while they not only withhold that privilege from other Churches, but impose upon their ministers and members regulations which they feel to be degrading and unmerited, as well as vexatious, tedioui, and •expensive in their practical working, and which in cer- j 4ain cases tend to promote criminal neglect of the j marriage rite, owing to the difficulties which they place in the way of parties residing in some remott districts of the country. Your Memorialists have no ckiire to deprive the denominations favoured by this Ordinance of the full and free exercise for themselves of all the privileges which it bestows ; but they, with respectful earnestness, ask that such privileges, in a matter in which all are equally interested, should not be restricted to two particular sections of the Christian community. Such restriction they cannot but [regard as sectarian and unjust ; and they beg leave to declare their solemn conviction, that as there is no particular church established by l»w in the Colony, there should he one, and only one, system of legislation with respect to the several Churches existing in it ; and that that system should be carried out with even-handed impartiality, without favoritism, and according to the principle of strict religious equality. Your memorialists would further represent that there are two classes in the community, who, besides bear* ing their full share in the general hardships inflicted

by the Ordinance are especially aggrieved by it ; ina9mrcfc as from one (the Scotch Presbyteri m settlers) it withholds privileges in the performance of the marriage cei«un my which they always and freely poss'ised in their own country ; and, on the other (the Weslejan Methodists) it actually inflicts a new and unprovoked disability, by taking away from them the power of granting licenses which they had enjoyed uninterruptedly for many years ; and they feel thii the more, because the effects on the minds of the Native population will be most injurious, many mixed marriages having been celebrated by then. F»r this and other rea-ons, y uir IVLsmorUlUti respectfully pray that, before the leruiin.itinn of tiie present session of Council, such alterations may lie made in the Mttrriage Ordinance as will romove the grounds of complaint stated in the pieinis's, by extending to the other relisjnus bodies, who *re, or may be, in tbi 1 colony, the same rights and privileg'S, in all matters and arrangements pertaining to the celcbraUon of Marriage, which are now granted to the Chuich of England and to the Church of Rome. And your Memorialists w ll fver pray, &c. (Here follows 249 signatures.) The Surveyor-General rose and said, that he had been requested to present a petition on the snmc subject from the Wesleyan Minister! of the District of Auckland, gigned on behalf of their congiegation-, and of the entire body to wlikh they belong throughout New Zealand, praying that the Marriage Ordinance might be amended so a 9 their body should be relieved from the necessity of submitting to provisions which they feel to be vexatious, tedious, and expensive, and tending, particu'arly in remote district*, to criminal neglect of the marriage rite. Ha would have wished that a petition of such importance had been entrusted to some member who could hare more forcibly urged on the Council reasons why it should be antertained, and to point out in what manner the evil complained of could be best remedied. But fortunately it was able to rest more upon its own merits for an introduction, than upon anjthinp he could «ay in its favour ; and still more fortunately for its ultimate succeis. its request was so simple, and at the same time of such a character as to carry with it so m-my of the best feelingi ourf ' ur nature— particulai ly a love of impartiality and religious freedom— that doubtless every member would feel himself as much ditpo ed as he (the Sur-veyor-General) himself was to accede to it. He could assure the Council, that had the petitioners ashed for any new or unusual privilege, or for a privilege which had been denied to all other denominations of Christians, or had they requested anything wh oh he considered would be inconsistent with the interests of society to grant unto them, he should have refused to have brought the petition belore the Council. But the case wa» widely diffi-rent. Nothing of the sort was required. The petitioners raereiy seek for a privilege which they formerly enjoyed previous to the Marriage Ordinance coming into operation i and hft believed that it could not be stated that they had in any way abused that privilege. It would bj admitted, he was certain, that the body to which the peti ioners belong, might be entrusted as fully, and ai safely, as any other section of Christian ministers with the prudent exercise of their function! in the celebration of the marriage ceremony in this Colony, and that they would be equally anxious as others to make it conducive to the interests of religion and morality . He need not point out lo the Council the great service which had been rendered to New Zealand by the missionaries of that body to which the petitioners belonged. His Excellency himself had more than once, in the most public manner, borne high testimony to the character of the Wesleyan missionaries who for nearly thirty years had been engaged in reclaiming the Natives of this country from heathenism, and in disseminating among them the principles of civil as well as religious instruction. The other honourable members, from their own local knowledge, need not be informed by him how ranch the benefits conferred upon this country by the exertion* of the body to which the petitioners belong, entitle them to the consideration of the Legislative Council of New Zealand. The results of their labours were to be 6een throughout the length and breadth of the land, and it would be as difficult for him to add anything, by any testimony of his own, to their wellearned msed of general praise for the honest discharge of their duties, as it would be impossible for any one to detract from it. The wcrk of which they have been the instruments is to he seen ; and the colony is in no small degree indebted to their loyal bearing towards the Government During the war that took place in the northern part o. this island, the Council would remember, that amongst those natives who stepped forward to our succour, none were more ready than the Wesleyin converts to fight side by side with our soldiers in defence of our hearths. And shall the future historian of New Zealand, while putting down the first few pages of its history, have to record that while those natives were shedding their blood in defence of our liberties, we were depriving their pastors of privileges which they felt to be their right to enjoy? No;hetrust«ltbntwhathad, no doubt, crept in unwittingly, without any desire on the part of a former Council to be oppressive, but which was now felt to be so by a large portion of the community, would be speedily and promptly wiped away from the statute hook of New Zealand. The bonornble member concluded by moving that the petition be read and received. Petition, as follows, read accordingly:— To His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief of New Zealand, and the Honourable the Members of the General Legislative Council now assembled. The Memorial of the Wesleyan Clergy of Auckland on behalf of themselves and their congregations, Respectfully Shewetb, — That the Marriage Ordinance for this Colony, passed by the Legislative Council, Sess. 8, No. 7, >■ held by them to be partial and sectarian in principle, and felt by them to be most oppressive in its practical working. They regard it as partial and sectarian, in as much as it selects from tho religious denominations of the Colony two Churches on which it confers powers and privileges that it withholds from other Churchas, and thus creates an invidious distinction in a country where there is no Establishment, and where all Churches possess an inalienable right to equal civil and religious pririleges. That in their case, as Wesleyan Ministers, they regard the distinction as the more invidious, and the partiality peculiarly marked, inasmuch as the Wesleyan Church hit for many years employed a number of agents at great annual cost in promoting the best interests of the country, the members of which have never been wanting ia loyalty, but have always stood among the foremost in aiding to auppresi rebellion, and to support and establish British rule ; and e«pecially as they are now deprived of powers and privileges formerly possessed and exercised by them, and rendered liable to be tried as felons should they continue to exercise the right they have so long indisputably possessed in this land. That the practical working of the Ordinance has been felt to be most vexatious and oppressive, involving expense, losi of time, and other sacrifices to the memborg of their congregations such as they respectfully

subm t ought not to be imposed on them more than on otiers ; besides, in some point*, being totally in<applicuble to the present state of the Colony, and calculated to induce in some caiesa criminal neglect of the marriage rite. Your memorialists therefore pray that, before the pre sent seuinn shaU close, 'your Excellency and yoar Honourable Council will be pleased to adopt such measure* as shall place the WeMeyan Church on a level, in the Marriage Ordinance, with those Churches entitled to many by license. Your memorialists respectfully add, that in thii prayer th y are suppincd by all the Wesleyan Ministers in the Colony, who, at their last Annual Distri t Meeting, held at Auckland in July 1818, addressed t> His Excellency the Governor-in-Chief a Memorial embodying the same views as are herein expressed. And your memorialists will ever pray, &c. Walter Lawuv, General Superintendent, New Z aland. Thomas Buddlk, Joseph Horneh Fletcher. Auckland, August 11, 1849. On the Motion of the Surveyor-General, seconded by Mr. Merrnnan, petition wai ordered to be printed On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, seconded by Mr. Merriman, the petition on the same subject from the Kirk Session of the Free Church of Scotlaud, received on Tuesday, was ordered to be printed. The Colonial Treasurer said that perhaps he might Btate, that should no steps be taUen by the Government with regard to the prayer of the petition that he had the honor to present, he would be prepared on Tuesday with a notice of motion on the subject. Th» Governor said that it would be well were honourable members to make it a rule, when they came down to that Council with petitions in their hands praying for certain things to be done, and supporting those petitions themselves, that they should also *>me prepared with at leait an outline of the measure which they deiired to have adopted* This certainly was the duty of members generally, but especially so of a member of the Council who was also a member of the Government, before he give notice, that unless the Government would consent to the petition presented by him, he would proceed to take further steps. The Colonial Treasurer, as a member of the Government and of that Council, had an opportunity of calling the attention of the Government or the Conucil to any measure that he deemed needfui ; it would have been much more in order for him to have given the subject of his wishes due consideration, and then produced to the Council such proviiions as he would like to have drafted into a bill, to meet the requirements of the petitioners. The Colonial Treasurer said that perhaps he was not quite in order in mentioning his notice until he was prepared with the specific terms of it ; but he wished to take the earliest opportunity of informing the Council that he intended to bring the question be. fore them in a more formal manner, which would give them a better opportunity of discussing it than was afforded by the mere presenting of petitions. What His Excellency had thought should have been done now was what he intended to do in bringing his motion before the Council, The Attorney-General said that he did not object to the petitions being received, although he thought they j contained observations reflecting on the legislature which were wholly unmerited. He would take the opportunity that wou d be afforded by the honorable, the Colonial Treasurer's motion, to reply to theve observations more fu'ly, as well as (0 s>me rema ks that | were made tar the honorable member, the PurveyorGeneral, on presenting one of thpm. Mr. Merriman would also reserva, until that time, remarks that he felt bound to make, in reply to what ' he thought was most unjust towards every member of | the Council that passed the Marriage' Ordinance. 1 The Governor then reminded members that, as there was no question before them, it would be out of order to continue the discussion, and the matter dropped.

Crown Lands Bill. ' On the motion of the Colonial Secretary, Council resumed in Committee on this bill. Clauses 37th to the end were considered, and several amendments were introduced into some of the clauses, while others were agreed to as printed. Sereral new Clauses wore proposed by the AttorneyGeneral, which, with the schedules) were allowed to stand over for further consideration.

Appropriation Bill. i On the motion of the Colonial Treasurer, the Bill ' for the Appropriation of the Rerenue for 184y — 50 was read a first time. The Colonial Treasurer, according to his notice of Thursday last, moved for despatches from the Secretary of State on the subject of the Marriage Ordinance. The Governor said that all despatches that had been received on the subject had already been published in the Colony ; nevertheless if members wished to have them, they should be laid upon the table. Mr. Merriman, according to his notice of TharsI day, moved for the following returns : A Return of the estimated expenditure of the Ge« neral Government for the year 1849-50, which cither wholly or in part fall upon the Province of New Ulster, which are not included in the Estimates already laid upon the table. Also, a return of the estimated expenditure of the Province of New Monster, for the years 1849-50, 1850 51. Also, a quarterly xeturn of the Revenue and Expenditure of the Colony of New Zealand, from local or Imperial funds, from Ist April, 1846, to Ist July, 1849. distinguishing the different heads received and expended. In moving for these returns, he, Mr. Merriman, was prompted by observing a difference between the time for which the Estimates purported to provide, namely 1849-50, a id that specified in his Excellency's financial minute, which waa stated to be l850«51. The Governor said that it was a rule laid down for all British Colonies that their accounts should be forwarded at such time of the year as to arrive in England in time for the Minister to be prepared to go to ask Parliament when it would assemble, for whatever grants would be required for the purposes of the Governments of the colonies, and for the sake of uniformity, the month of June had been fixed upon. 'Ih e estimated revenue and expenditure had therefore been taken on for the year 1850-51, in order that New Zealand might fall into the observance of this system. As regarded the return relating to the Southern Province, His Excellency thought it was hardly fair that the Council should call upon him to produce what was I asked for, especially at a time when the Lieutenant Governor of that Province and himself were in correspondence upon the Estimates of New Munster. Mr. Merriman said that he had observed that cer- I tain lalatiei were now fixed upon the estimates as chargeable on this Province, which were formerly paid out of the Parliamentary grant; and, in calling for the returns relative to New Munster, he wished to ascertain how far they corresponded in that respect with our own estimates The Governor explained how it wag that certain salaries of officer* of New Mu niter were placed on the Civil Liit, while the salaries of corresponding officers here were made chargeable on the Province. He hid the power to reserve a civil list, which was a portion of the revenue removed from beyond the power of tin

legislature. Upon that subject ho was nnw in correspondence with the Government of New Minister, and he thought that while a correspondence whs goins: on between himself and the Lieutenant Governor* nf Piovincei he should not be called on to lay before the Council matter- that had not yet been aqjiced upon, When once settled it would be the ihi'y ot the Legislative Council of the Province to publish what tlic honourable member called for. Mr. (Vfermnan hal no wish to trench upon the duties of the Legi-lative Councils of o'her Provinces ; but he rcitainlv thought that tiu* Gcucial L" 1 / s'a ive Council hud a right to call for the ie nuts ot tha Piovinces. It wa< with no desire to question tha right of each ptovince to apportion it*, own revenue und fix its own salaries, that he called for ihise returns, but t<j •cc that equal-handed justice was m-tcl out vo both provinces in the appoitionruent of the general revenue. Surely the Civil List was not to be kept uu impenetrable lecret any more than the Provincial List. He could not see the force of any reason tint wis given for such ircrecy. However, be had rneiely a-k°d for tha return in order to arrive at information that \w, deemed of iniportnnoe in the discussion of the estimates ; but if His Excellency thought it would not tend to the advantage o^tbe colony to produce such n statement, he (Mr. Memmttn) would not press for its production. The Governor said that the greatest difficulty would be experienced in giving anything like a correct Mate* ment of what had bceu called for. At present theie were three estimates tor the .Southern Province— one prepared by the Lieutenant-Govornor, one by the Lpgulative Council, and one, such as it might be, prepared by himself from them both. However, the Gizettes containing the printed proceedings »>t" the Legislative Council of New Munntrr could be laid on the table, -which would perhnptf give honourable members all the information that was sought. Mr. Merriman agreed to this, and withdrew hii motion. Mr. Merriman then moved for the following return relative to roads, stating his reason for calling for such return to be, that the Council should be put in full possession of all particulars concerning this service which had been so inadequate in extent to the sum of money that had been expended on it. He congratulated the public, however, on a considerable reduction that wus about to he made in the expense of the department, and he would now move for the following ;— A Return of Total Expenditure upefti the roads in the Province of New Ulster from the Ist April, 1846, to Ist July last, shewing the amount expended in each month, and, as far as practicable, specifyingthe different items of expenditure, and shewing whether expended on European or Native labor, and also specifying whether expended on military or civil labor. A Return of the works performed, specifying the extent of roads completed, the locality in which those roads are situated, and as far as practicable the extent of each piece of road so completed ; the width and extent of road in progress, the locality in which those roads are situated, and as far as practicable., the estimated expense of completing the roads so in progress. The Governor had no objection to the production of such a return, but it was with surprise and regret that he heard the honorable member taking a reduction in the amount to be expended on the construction of roads as a subject of congratulation. Mr. Merriman would be glad to see a much larger amount set apart for road-making if he were sure it would be properly controlled and expended ; but if the •nme squandering system was to be persisted in that had hitherto marked tho road department, he thought the lets that was placed at its dispcsal the better for the Province. The Governor said it was easy for members to make ■uch statements about that with which they were practically unacquainted ; he could only say that such statements were quite unfounded and undeserved. The Surveyor- General thought that the lion, member's expressions should not have been put forth so rashly ; he ought at least to have withheld his censure until the returns were before him. Mr, Merriman said that the Surveyor -General ought not to accuse him of rashness in expressing himself freely on a subject that he contended was his duty to comment upon in his place in that Council. He believed that there had been more money expended on that department than there was work to show for it. What^he had iaid had not been said rashly, and he thought the honorable the Surveyor-General should withdraw the expression. The Surveyor General was quite willing to withdraw any expression that might be considered offensive. Mr. Merriman then moved for the following—* A return of the Expenses and the several service? upon which the Government schooner has been cm1)loyed since lstof January, 1847' until the Ist of July ast. The like retnrn of the Government brig. A Return showing the number of Parkhurst Boyj introduced into the colony, the date of their introduction, and, as far as practicable, showing how m.tny of those introduced have been c.itninally convicted and how many are still resident in the colony at the present date. Mr. Barstow moved for the following return, but after an explanation from the Governor lie withdrew the former part of it, in order to bring foi ward a more specific motion on Tuesday, allowing lug motion for a return of the land fund to stand. Return of all Moneys due by or owing to the Govern- ! ment of New Zealand ut the expiration of the year 1848-49, showing on what account and by whom any liabilities may have been incurred ; also the debtor and creditor account of the land fund al the the same time. Mr. Barstow also gave notice that he would move for the following returnsReturn of the strength and expense of the Police Force at Auckland, for the year 1848*49, together with the number of informations laid for felony or misdemeanor, and the number of detections consequent thereon. Return of population for thr same yearh. Return of prices paid for articles for provisioning 1 the Native labourers upon the roads during each yeai that they may have been so supplied, the kind of provisions allowed, its quantity und price. Tho Surveyor-General gave notice that on Tuesday next he would moveThat the Council do address the Governor requesting him to introduce a Bill making certain specified amendments in the Marriage Ordinance, which will extend to the Presbyteriau and Wesleyan Churches tho privileges now enjoyed by the Churches of England and Rome. The Colonial Treasurer gave notice that he would more for any despatch that might have been received from the Secretary of Stnte announcing the confirmation or disallowance of the Marriage Ordinance. The Governor said that he would state at once that that Ordinance had not been confirmed. Mr. Merriman renewed his notices of motion relative to the Pensioners' Villages and Resident Magistrates Courts. The Colonial Secretary gave notice that he would move for further consideration of the Crown Lands Bill in Committee on Tuesday next. The Colonial Treasurer gave notice, that on Tuesday next he would move the second reading of the Appropriation Bill. Council adjourned until two o'clock on Tuesday.