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New Zealander, Volume 5, Issue 318, 16 June 1849, Page 1 (Supplement)

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He thought that the paragraphs which were contained in her Majesty's Speech in relation to that subject were such as could not provoke hostility in any quarter (hear, hear). He then approached a subject which presented a most serious complication of evils; he referred to Ireland. He feared that the normal state of agitation in which that country was habitually involved had unhappiiy presented too ready materials for the designs and schemes of men of morbid ambition ; but it could not be denied— the fact, in truth, was incontrovertible—that disaffection to a considerable degree existed among the mass of the people. A very large force was stationed in Ireland, in very excellent condition. It was above all praise that the police in Ireland had refused, during the late insurrectionary movement, to be debauched from their duty, by which a great effusion of blood was saved. The suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act in Ireland, which took place at the close of the last sesiion, exercised, he believed, a most beneficial influence in Ireland in the suppression of rebellion, the saving of the effusion of blood, and the restraining of insurrection. It was a measure of confidence reposed in the Lord-Lieutenant ; but the temper with which he administered the great powers invested in him, and the wisdom with which he applied those powers, was above all praise. * * ***** A general opinion seemed to prevail that a considerable reduction of the expenditure was necessary. Reductions to some extent had been made in that expenditure during the past year. In his opinion nothing could conciliate the public more than a fair and equitable re. duction of the national expenditure— a reduction consistent with the requirements of the public service, and the maintenance of that protective force on which the security of the country depended (hear, hear). He had now endeavoured briefly to deal with the questions referred to in the Addresi. He trusted that that protection which had been so long vouchsafed to their institutions would continue to be extended to them. (Cheers,) The noble lord then read the Address.— Mr. Buubury seconded the motion. — The Speaker having read the Address, Mr. Disraeli (who was much cheered) felt bound to lay that both in the Speech which her Majeity had pleased to address to her Parliament, and in the answer which had then been proposed to the House to offer at the foot of the throne, he did not find that a fair and candid statement as to the condition of the country was conveyed to the house and the country (hear, and cheers)— not a candid statement either at regarded the internal condition of this country, or its external relations (hear, hear). At this moment, important and numerous as were the subjects for their consideration, doubtless k the most excellent would seem to be the state of Ireland. The language he had found in a note which he made of the Speech, did not convey, as it appeared to him, the impression that her Majesty's minister! were of opinion that the state of Ireland lequired any immediate relief (hear, hear). He thought it was of very great importance to know what Ministers meant by the " earliest 1 ' inquiry. Was it an inquiry by a Committee of the House of Commons ? In that case, an inquiry, no doubt, might be early, but the conclusion most probably would be delayed (hear, hear.) And why inquiry by a Committee of the House of Commons i They bad had sufficient experience of what inquiries by Committees of the House of Commons might accomplish on subjects in which the Administration ought to have taken the initiative. He did not see any cause why the poor-laws of Ireland should be an exception to that rule. There could be no doubt that the increase of employment in the manufacturing districts was a matter of congratulation, especially among those gentlemen who Crtine from the rural districts, because they could assure the house that there was no increase of employment in their part of the country. This, said the hon. gentleman, is the first time that the Sovereign has met Parliament without being able to congratulate the House of Commons that she c ntinues to receive from all her allies assurances of continued amity (hear, hear, hear). Her Majesty refers to the King of Naples. Now, I have no idea who the King of Naples is. I never heard of the King of Naples (laughter and cheers). Probably some member of her Majesty's Government may rise to explain it (hear, hear). These are days of great diplomatic confusion, and rapid change, and, for aught I know, some new power may have risen up. Ido not know that it has yet been recognised; but I should as hoon have thought that we should have heard in the speech of the Queen of Lon« don, as of a recognised King of Naples (cheers). Is the King of the Two Sicilies not to be noticed (loud cheers) ? Has he agreed to a suspension of arms, and to enter into mediation ? Has he given in his adhesion to any mediation carried on under the influence of the English and French admirals } (Loud cheers.) On these point* we have a right to have a frank, explicit, intelligible statement, instead of a statement on the face of which it does not appear that there are any negotiator! except ourselves (laughter and cheers). Then we are told that it is the constant deuire of the Sovereign " to maintain with all foreign states the most friendly relations." But we are not told, as we generally are on these occasions, that all foreign states are also anxious to maintain friendly relations with us (great cheering and laughter). I find in France t». Republic without republicans— and in Germany an Empire without an Emperor (gicat laughter). And this— this is the brilliant achievement of universal suf* frage—the high political consummation of the sovereignty of the people (cheers). A Republic without Republicans, an Empire without an Emperor, only required mediation without an object on which to mediate, to make the saturnalia of diplomacy the orgies of politics. And ws have gut it (loud cheers and laughter). In consequence of your mock mediation, nothing: is settled. If Austria had been let alone, if Denmark bad been let alone, these questions would have been settled, and all Europe would now have been left in a state of tranquillity. But tranquillity has not taken place, because there has been mediation. But suppose that a war should come, how would it then be ? We shtuld have the support of no party in any country, because we have offended both and deceived both (cheers), Immcaie change* hare occurred since I

last bnd the honour of addressing you. Empires have fallen; the Pope no longer reigns in Rome ; her Majetty meets Parliament, and tacitly admits that she has no allies. But, amidst all (these portentous changes, ; there is nothing so marvelleus as the fact on which I congratulate her Majesty's Ministers, and that it, their conversion to the principles of financial reform (cheers). The age of miracles is not passed (continued cheers and laughter). It is strange to me to be told that the present aspect of affairs has enabled the Government to make large reductions. The question I naturally arises — What aspect of affairs ? What has | compelled them to this course ? (hear) Is it what I read l here— the spirit of disaffection exists in Ireland stillis that the aspect of affairs|? Ii it what I read here— that a rebellion of a formidable character exists in the Puojaub (hear, hear)— is that the aspect of affairs? (Loud cheers.) Is it the fact, that at this moment two million! of armed and disciplined men are moving over the face of Europe in hostile array— is that the aspect of affairs which enables her Majesty's Government to make reductions in the estimates of last year ? That there should be a necessity for retrenchment is not in the least surprising to gentlemen on our side of the house. You have been tampering with the resources of the country for many years (cheers). No gentleman on this side of the house will agree to a retrenchment which is not a real and a just retrenchment. Least of all should I approve of gentlemen laying party hands upon that which is the palladium of our country — the fleet of England, which influences foreign cabinets more tkan any minister ; or of the British regi* ments which have now become as famous as the Roman legions (loud cheers). Yet large reductions are announced in both, and that in consequence of " the present aspect of affairs." It surely cannot be that her Majesty's ministers have become converts to the perpetual peace theory (immense laughter). I have no objection that the people should be relieved to the amount of five or even of ten millions, only I think we have a right, considering the quarter from which the propositions come — to ascertain, or rather to stipulate the source from whence the profits are to accrue, and the savings to be realised. So I say to these honourable gentlemen, deduct your ten or your five million! from that immense treasure— that more than Califor* nian gold— the hundred millions sterling' annually, or the two millions a week that was to be realised from the repeal of the corn laws (loud chears). Reduction! made in such a rash and unauthorized manner have always been followed by increasod expenditure (loud cheers). lam told that England must be contented with a less demonstration of brute force. I should first like to have a definition of what the words brute force mean. What is brute force ? My opinion is, that a highly disciplined army, impelled by the spirit of a great duty, to be performed for the defence of their country, the maintenance of order, or the consolidation of the national strength — that a body of men thus disciplined, and led by one of the most dignified and elevated of the human race, by an Alexander or a Wellesley, was as much an exhibition of moral as of physical force (hear, hear). But if, on the contrary, I find a man, with just ai much facility of speech as enables him to command the attention of a multitude, haranguing "great bodies of his countrymen, making inflammatory appeals to them, and stiinng them up against the institutions of their country — that is what I call a demonstration of brute force (cheers and laughter)— a demonstration which I think this country would be very well content to do without, and which, if there be any sense of spirit left with men of might and leading in this country, they will endeavour to put down as an intolerable and ignominious tyranny. (Great cheering from the opposition benches.) Were I blessed with offspring, I would address my son ia this style :— " My ion" (great laughter at the solemnity of the style in which the hon. gentleman pronounced the words) " My son, you see with how much ignorance you can agitate a nation" (great laughter and cheering). Yes, but the Queen's ministers are truckling to these men (hear. hear). Her Majesty's minister! have yielded to public opinion. Public opinion in England is the voice and clamour of organised clubs (cheers). I think that the address does not g»e a true picture of the state of affairs to the throne, «nd I shall, therefore, propose other words, which shall give an honest and a true statement of their real condition. I shall move, that after the words " progressive improvement," the following words be introduced :— " We regret to be compelled to represent to your Majesty that neither the relations of this country with foreign powers, nor the state of the revenue, nor the condition of the manufacturing interests, are such as, in our opinion, can justify us in addressing your Majesty in the language of congratulation (hear, hear) ; and that a large portion of the agricultural and colonial interests of the empire is labouring under a state of progressive depression, caU culated to excite serious tpprehen?ion and anxiety." (cheers.) — Mr. H. Grattan said he had to move an amendment to a passive in the address preceding that to which the honorable member had moved in his amendment. The amendment which he offered was to the effect that the disturbances in Ireland had not been renewed, but that a feeling of discontent, augmeuted by the distress of the people, siill existed, which it would be their duty to watch, and as speedily as possible to allay (hear, hear.)— VJ r . J.O'Connell seconded the amendment. — Lord J. Russell : Sir, I will first state, briefly, the remarks that I have to make witb regard to Ireland. The powers we propose to ask are not powers as against Ireland (hear, hear.) Upon the contrary, they are powers for the protection of all the well-disposed, (or the protection of the greit majority of the country against those who would turn the p.e sent misfortunes of the country to their own purposes of disaffection and rebellion (cheers.) Witli regard to another topic, I have been accuitomed to hear continually reproaches that in our legislation for Ireland we do not consult those who represent that country— thoie who know the fueling*, the wants, and the condition of the people. But now, when we propose there should be a committee in which we shall be able to ascertain what Irish members really think of the modifitious required in the Poor-law, and in which we can consult their experience before we bring a bill into this house, we are told we ought to have framed our bill

entirely upon our own notion*— that we should not have listened to the opinions of Iriih members, but have acted independently of any such advice or information (hear, hear, hear.) It it obvious that if we had taken that course we ihould have been liable to reproach. Now, sir, all that is stated with regard to the foreign relations of this country in the Queen's Speech, has been put into that speech by the advice given to her Majesty according to what is strictly the fact with regard to the transactions which have taken place. I say that it is quite unexampled for a member to come forward, upon the first night of the session without any such information, without even asking for such information, and ask the house to vote an addresi to the effect that " your Majesty's relations with foreign poweri are not such a% in our opinion, justify us in addressing your Majesty in the language of congratulation." No congratulation 21 proposed. No congratulation has been asked (hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman said, in another part of his speech, that he doubted whether this country ought to have acted with France with the governments she has had since the revolution. I feel no such doubts (cheers.) I feel convinced that our acting in concert with France during the past year has been of great benefit to the peace of Europe (cheers.) Had we been left to take our own line without concert and without advice, we should have been driven by violent parties into sudden hostilities, by which the whole peace of Europe might have been seriously endangered (hear, hear.) Whether France has been wise in changing her form of govern, ment from a monarchy into a republic, whether it is true, as the honourable gentleman says, that there are no republicans in France, are questions iv which I do not mean to interfere (hear, hear.) They are questions for the French people themselves (cheers.) I must say, with regard to M. Lamartine, with regard General Cavaignac, and with regard to the present French Government, and all the government* we have had to deal with in France, they have listened fairly and frankly to all the representations we have had to make to them. They have stated what they believe to be the interest and the policy of France, and we have no reason whatever to complain; but, on the contrary, reason to rejoice that we have had to deal with men of high honour and pacific views (loud cheers.) With regard to Naples, if, as I believe, it was the duty of the Government to use their endeavours to procure terms upon which both parties should agree, then I say we are justified in the course which we have adopted (cheers ) Sir, with respect to the next quetion, the expenses of our military establishments, I think, whatever deduction or augmentation you might make, to take the year 1835, or any other fixed year for the many years past, and to say that you will square your estimates, and fix your establishments, according to the expenditure, would be an extremely irrational course of proceeding. I think it is obvious that we coi'ld not persevere in the course we felt ourselves bound to take last year. It was not fitting to go on every year increasing the public debt of the country without a prospect of the expenditure being equalised with the revenue. The committee which sat ast year upon our naval and military expenditure, showed that, a 9 regarded the navy, at least useful retrenchments might be made without impairing the tervice. I rejoice as much as any man that the ancient Enopirc of Austria, an old ally of this country should have beeu recovering her splendour, and should .have shown her strength in so conspicuous a manner (cheers,) We have ourselves gone through a commercial convulsion, arising chiefly from a wild spirit of speculation. It our trade at the present moment shaken to the dust, or is it true that it is reviving (hear) ? Is it true or not that it is assuming a healthy tone, and may we not hope that it will take iti usual course to a state of restored prosperity ? We have put down what, in spite of the hon. member for iMrath, I must call an insurrection in Ireland ; tranquillity has been restored. Has this object been effected by any sanguinary measures; has it been restored by arming one class of the population against another, and by fixing upon Ireland a permanent st*te of civil war, which would be incalculably woise than a transitory insurrection ? I reply boldly that it has not. Ido say, if suck be the results, that the gavemmeat which has beeu at ths head of affairs at least deseives this— not to be condemned on the first nighfc of a session (cheers.)— Mr. E. B. Roche contended that, as Ireland had suffered more than any other portion of the empire by the free trade measures of the government, it was entitled to the greater boon at its hands. — Mr. Herbert was of opinion that government should come torward at once with some distinct plan of its own for the remedy of the evils of the Irish poor-law.— Mr. Hume was quite disappointed trith the speech from the Throne. It said nothing about the equalization of taxation, although government had pledged itself to turn its attention to the snbject. It sard nothing about reduction of taxation. Did the government, he would ask, mean to say th it it would take its stand against tttiy further concession to the representation of the country? He strongly con detuned the tyranny exercised in our colonies, which led him to wonder that they had not been all of them driven to insurrection. In Ceylon he believed that rebellion had actually broken out, and that government had hanged and quartered (oh !) he did not know how many. The rebellion had been caused by tha proposal ot a tax which every man in the colony knew would iead to such a result. Martial law had beed proclaimed, military executions had taken place, and all sanctioned by Lord Grey without any inquiry (hear.) i he house then divided upon Mr. Grattan's amendment, when the numbers were— For the Oiiginal Motion 200 For the Amendment 12 Majority 188 On the motion of Mr. Stafford, the debate upon the other amendment was then adjourned.