MR. CURTIS' MEETING.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XII, Issue 302, 21 December 1877, Page 2

MR. CURTIS' MEETING.

A large number of electors responded last night to Mr Curtis' invitation to meet him at the Provincial Hall. His Worship the Mayor having been voted to the chair, Mr Cuetis said that he had called the electors together earlier than usual because the erents of the late session had been so much more generally interesting and exciting than in previous years that he thought it desirable that the action of the members should be discussed while they were yet fresh in the minds of the public. The abolition of provinces in the previous session rendered a large amount of legislation necessary in order to bring about something like uniformity in the laws, and consequently the Government brought down a large number of Bills, the principal of which were the Education, the Land, and the Mines Bills. The effect of the former of these was to repeal all the existing systems, most of which were endeared to those among whom they had been iv force for so many years, in order that an uniform law might be passed for the whole colony. The original Bill contained a clause providing for the reading of the Lord's Prayer and a portion of Scripture. This he had endeavored to amend by rendering it optional with the Local Committees, but tbe House rejected this and struck out the clause altogether. Another amendment which he had moved in the direction of subsidising schools, as was dove iv Nelson, met with a similar fate. It was scarcely to be expected that at the first attempt a system that would be acceptable to all would be hit upon, and consequently it was probable that many amendments might be found necessary pext session. Having touched lightly upon the Land and Mines Bills, Mr Curtis went on to say that the Government had brought down the estimates early in the session, and these showed considerable reductions in the salaries, but not so great as might have been made had it not been for the abolition of the Provinces, which hack increased the work of the General Government, and finding that, notwithstanding these reductions, the expenditure would still be iv excess of the revenue, Ministers proposed to take £170,000 from the land fund of Otago and Canterbury. They further proposed to raise a loau of two millions— £940,000 for public works, £260,^00 to meet Provincial liabilities, and £800,000 to repay money raised oil guaranteed debentures. These were the leading financial proposals and they should have received a fair consideration, bafc this was not the case, as the Grey party raised all sorts of obstructions. They brought forward questions of privilege, and points of order, and talked against time, and altogether conducted themselves in a way that was utterly indefensible. After three months had been wasted by such proceedings it became clear that the Govern- J ment could not carry on the business, and added to this was the feeling that the Atkinson party was but a contiunation of the Yogel Governmeat, which had been in power since

1869, and under which had sprang up & system of extravagance which ought to be checked. On the other hand, was the feeling that it would be extremely dangerous to place Sir George Grey iv power, and these considerations gave rise to the Middle Party, which was to be independent of both. But in order to succeed in turning out the Atkinson Government it wa3 ueaessary to secure the co-operation of the Grey party, but this was attended with the risk of putting Sir George iv. Thereupon his friends gave out that he had no desire to take office, but would be quite willing to give all the support in his power to the Government formed by the Middle Party. Then followed the no-confi-dence motion, but no sooner was it carried than, to the surprise of the Middle Party, Sir George's friends insisted upon bringing turn forward, members of the party abandoned their colors and went over to him, aud Mr Larnach, who had been acting for them, took Sir George into the Ministry, giving him the post of Premier. If they had ever thought that by turning Major Atkinson out they would have been putting Sir George in, the no-confidence vote would never have passed, for they would all have preferred the lesser evil to the greater. That was how it was that Sir George Grey had crept into power though the back door and against the wishes of the majority of the House. There had been a great deal of talk about giving him a fair trial, but it must be remembered that he was a tried public man, whose principles were well known, and were disapproved of by the majority of the House. Then after looking about for a leader, the Middle Party agreed to accept Major Atkinson, a meeting was called, at which a small majority of the House was present, and it was decided to allow Sir George an opportunity of bringing down his financial policy which, they all felt sure, would be unacceptable to the country. But this Sir George would not do, and so Major Atkinson brought forward the no-conSdence motion. That gentleman had been accused of displaying an indecent eagerness to return to office, but ifc must be remembered that he was acting a3 the leader of a party, and whatever blame was to be attributed to him must be equally attributable to the whole party. The Grey Ministry was now formed, and consisted of two Auckland members, two troni Otago, and one from Canterbury. In this the central part of the colony had no confidence, as was shown by the voting, only 1 1 of them voting with Sir George, and 33 against him. Of the Nelson and Westland members two voted with and ten against him. What they chiefly dreaded was the separation of the colony, which had been a favorite

scheme of Sir George Grey's, and which ifc was naturally supposed he would again bring forward. Mr. Graham: JSfot necessarily so. Mr. Cubtis: Then if he was one who. did nofc hesitate to sacrifice his principles for, the sake of power, no stronger reason could be adduced for the colony (declining to place confidence in him. Sir George and Ui^parfcy now set to work industriously 'circulating reports regarding the financial statement of his .predecessor, who was charged with deception and falsification, but none of these were proved or attempted to be proved, and eventually Sir George actually accepted his figures without question. The country had expected great disclosures, but not so the House as there the characters of the two men were too well known. Then ifc was given out that the heads of the departments withheld information. Sir George was asked about this in the House, but declined to give any straightforward answer. Another objection against Sir George being placed m power was that from the first time he entered the House he had been constantly attacking the Governor, which led to the belief that it was impossible for them to work together. It was believed that he would take every opportunity of snubbing the Governor in revenge for the slights that he (Sir G.) had received from the Home Government through the Governor's agency. These fears were soon justified, and >ir Geprge commenced a Beries of squabbles as he had done in the days when he was Governor with the of the forces and the Home Government. Mr Curtis then alluded to the breach of privilege question, of which he thought, even though the Governor might have been wrong on some dry point of constitutional law, that a great deal too much was made. With regard to the proposed visit of Sir W. Jervois and Colonel Scratchley he thought it would have been better to have obtained their opiaioa on the defence question. It was laughable to find that when the Hinemoa waa asked for for the purpose of bringing these two officers over from Australia Sir George at once said she was required for other purposes, although he and his party Jiad always been alleging that there was no use whateverjor her. With regard to the dissolution question he thought the Governor was in the right, as° it was not the rule to grant a dissolution when the sole question at issue was differences between two sets of men. Mr Stafford had once applied to Sir George Bowdn-fdv a dissolution under dmilar circumstances, and had been refused on precisely the same grounds. Referring to Sir George Grey's action in endeavoring to induce the Governor to veto the Land Bill, he characterised it as an attempt to exercise an act of most despotic tyranny, to carry out which the Governor was sought to be made the instrument. To go back to eiir George's financial proposals. The only difference between them and those of Major Atkinson's, notwithstanding all the talk about distributing taxation.more equally was the taking of the land fund and the proposal to raise a four million instead of a two million loan. Of the first he entirely approved, having advocated it for years, and it had been made an absolute condition by the Middle Party that this should be done next session. Indeed, Major Atkinson would have proposed it last session but that it would have been sure to meet with the opposition of the Grey party if it had been pro posed by him. With regard to the four million loan which was to be raised upon the pretence that it was necessary to pay off all temporary loans, he had opposed, it as he didjnot think ifc was at all necessary to do so, as a temporary loan was far more likely to be paid off out of current revenue than if it was made a permanent one, and lost sight of as it would be. Of Mr Larnach's {Statement it had been said that it was so clear and distinct that; anyone could understand ifc. He had, however, only adopted Major Atkinson's figures, merely adding to them some tables. One statement was to the effect that the expenditure exceeded the revenue by nearly £2000 a day. This certainly was plain and clear enough, but there was a serious objection to it, namely, that it was totally untrue. He .would now like to say a few words upon the policy shadowed forth by Sir Greorga Grey. It waa to this effect: —fairer taxation; land to be open to all for sale; more equal representation, and reduction in expenditure. This was a very excellent programme, but how was ifc going to be done? It was likely to remain a mere theory and^nothing more. The idea was to equalise taxation by taking £300,000 off the Customs duties on articles of daily use, such as tea and sugar, and to place a tax on real pro perty. (Cheers). That sounded well, but his opinion was that we should be compelled to retain the duties, and to impose the other tax as well. The rate of one shilling in the pound levied by the Road Boards on the assessed value of property in the colony produced $138,000 a year. Suppose a tax of another shilling was levied by the Government—and he did not think the people could bear more —that would only give £138,000 towards the revenue. How was that to compensate for the £300,000 of which hke Customs were to be relieved? Then the land was to be placed within the reach of all. Why ■that was what the Provinces had been trying to do for years, and had never managed it to their satisfaction. Sir .George Grey himself had tried his hand at it, and the result of his regulations of 1853 was that the whole

of tbe lands of the Amuri and Marlborough bad passed into the hands of large owners to the exclusion of small farmers. With regard to representation, he had no objection whatever to the franchise being extended, bot would make it a sine qua non, that it should be accompanied by a residence for 60ine time in the polony, as it woulH be impossible ior the newly arrived immigrant, knowing nothing of the men or circumstances of the colony to give an intelligent vote. The proposed reduction in the expenditure would be thought prove a mere theory, as when the details were looked into, 6he immense difficulties in the way would be discovered. At present, jthe tendency was to increase the. expenditure, and no reduction could be effected except by doing away with what we had learned tO'ldok.upon as an actual necessUy.such as tha extension of telegraph, post offices,^. One proposal to reduce the expenditure was very plausible but it did not come with a good grace from Sir George Grey. He referred to the proposed reduction in .Ministerial salaries. Sir George had a handsome private fortune and was .in receipt of, a large pension. He could not take the latter and his salary, so that his self-sacrifice was not very great. There was. one remarkable feature in the division on ibis question. The Bill, was brought in by the Government, and yet two of their supporters and minor agents, who never voted against them, and were not likely to do so unless under orders, actually voted against this Bill. (A Voice : Name.) Mr Curtis : Mr Shriaiski and Mr BarfF.) In considering whether Sir G. Grey was entitled to their confidence as Premier, they should remember what he did last year. He actually telegraphed to the Home Government that there was reason to fear that K.JVI.'a ships would be ordered by the Governor to bombard Auckland, and previously he had written a letter to a newspaper saying that there was reason to fear that the UoverDnaent would rid themselves of the Superintendents by poisoning them. What faith could they possibly have in a man who could be guilty of such extraordinary conduct as this p Sir George had expressed the hope that tbe colony would become divided iqto two great parties, the Conservative and the Liberal, but his own impression was that there never would be such a division out here as there was in the old country. He saw no chance whatever of the formation of two such parties. Mr Curtis then referred to the two measures of local importance, namely, toe JBill. authorising the . purchase of the gas aa<l water works by the Gity Counoil, and the Port extension of this railway, which should be carried out shortly if any faith whatever was to be placed in Government promises. He concluded by stating his readiness to reply to any question that might be put to him.

Mr. Levestam then stepped on the platform and put a series of queatiouß. In reply to one of these Mr Curtis stated that an attempt waa made by the middle party to persuade Sir W. Fitzherbert to have the chair, and to assume the leadership of the Opposition with a view to making him Premier^ A long discussion then ensued between Mr Curtis and Mr Levestara as to whether Major Atkinson did or did not bring forward the no confidence motion tha day after the Middle TarSV fts ft meeting had decided to give Sir George time to produce hia Financial Statement. Mr Levestam said he did. Mr Curtia said he did not. Mr Leveafcam asked how .Mr Curtis could justify his statement that Sir George Grey did not possess the confidence of the central part of tbe colony when meetings were held there in his support. Mr Curtis replied that he looked upon the members of the House as the representatives of the wishes of the people as far as they could be ascertained. He did ,aot hold that a fair expression of public opinion was always to be obtained at a public nieetioi>, often called hastily, and acting without sufficient information. Public opinion almoat always proved right ia the end, but it was alow in formation.—- Mr Levestam: : Has it not always baea known thai Sir George Grey advocated the claims of the 0188868 us against the capitalist ? Mr Cubtis : In words he certainly has, but action is an entirely different thing. Whaa I hear a man unusually loud in hia protestations, I always euspect him. Mr Levestam : You voted, I believe, for the iionoratium to Sir J. Yogel, Mr Cmms ; I did, Ii waa ehown that, he spent the money, and also that he waa abominably extravagant. But the people of New Zealand reposed the greatest confidence in Sir Julius. They kuew perfectly well about hia ahamet'ully extravagant habits, and knowing all this I hold that they have no right to turn round and refuae to pay what they might have been certain when they put their trust iv him, that he would epeud. Some further conversation ensued, after wuich Mr Niaa attempted to make a speech on the land laws of Canada, but the meeting would not iibtea to him, and the proceedings were brought to a close by Mr Curtis proposing a vote of thanks to the chairman.