MR. SAUNDERS' MEETING.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume VII, Issue 117, 17 May 1872, Page 2

MR. SAUNDERS' MEETING.

By eight o'clock last night the Provincial Hali was crowded in every part, the members of the Provincial Council, and the whole of the leading men of the place being present to listen to Mr. Saunders' promised address, which also appeared to possess considerable interest for the fair sex, nearly all the seats in the ladies' gallery being occupied. At the hour named tbe chair was taken by Mr. N. Edwards, who briefly introduced Mr. , Saunders to the meeting, at the same time saying tbat he did not, by taking the chair, intend to identify himself with the opinions that that gentleman might express. Mr. Saund ebs, who was received with cheers, said that it was with feelings of a mingled character that, after a lapse of five years, he again stood before a Nelson audience to address them on public subjects. He felt the most unfeigned pleasure in availing himself of the opportunity " thus afforded him of addressing them on the affairs of the province, and he knew that, how-: ever much some of them might differ from him, he was sure to obtain a patient and attentive hearing. He had spoken some hundreds of times to .them, and. never once failed in obtaining an ■ impartial hearing from a Nelson audience. In this respect our education brought us above an , English audience; as he had there noticed several times that a candidate was not allowed '-.'to speak, and he certainly felt proud in observing how far we surpassed them. He also, experienced a feeling of regret in coming before them, and f or | this there were two reasons : the first and principal one being that he found the public affairs in so deplorable and melancholy ~a "condition; !the „ second was. that the views . of some of his old . 7 friends in New Zealand ;_bad. r so entirely changed, ; :.: and notably so . those of one ;of the candidates whom he was now opposing. When he was last hereithey had worked together most cordially, : ; and he: hoped 'they might do solagainj /but at • ' present they were as wide apatt^the^poles; He PP should not, like t_i_^^othi_^iei-ndi^t-_^a iritn the

native war. The New Zealand public were thoroughly tired of it, and, besides, it was very difficult to speak of it without making remarks that might prove injurious. What Mr. Luckie had said on the question was, be thought, unwise and not calculated to promote peace. It was not wise to insult the natives, and it was a great mistake to suppose that they did not know nearly all that was said of them. He would merely say that his views were of such a character that, if they had been carried out, there would not now have existed a heavy war debt. It was our duty, when the war was begun by the Imperial authorities, to retrench as much as lay in our power, but to refrain from borrowing for war purposes. Had we not proposed it, the Home Government never would. But the great question of the day was the present Ministry and its policy, and here again he found himself deserted by hi sold friends. There was no public man in New Zealand with whom he was more anxious to work than Mr. Fox, from whom he had ever experienced the greatest kindness and courtesy. He was entitled to our respect and esteem for the part he had taken in reference to the war, and to our gratitude for the manner in which he had fought our battles in England, and in many ways he (Vr. Saunders) felt it an unfortunate circumstance that he should be called upon to oppose a candidate who supported his policy through thick and thin. Of Mr. M'Lean, he did not know so much, but be believed him to be the right man in the right place, and that he deserved great credit as a wise and successful Native Minister. Mr. Gisborne was a very useful member of the team, never likely to run away with the coach, but one who did his work staunchly and honestly. And now he came to the runaway horse, Mr. Yogel. He might prove exceedingly useful in the team, but he must be kept in his right place. He had any amount of steam, energy, and ability, but he should be placed ia the pole, where he would be more under control. To put him in the lea<l was a most dangerous procpeding, and one which must end in absolute ruin. In speakinjj of the liabilities of the colony, Mr. Luckie had informed us that in 1570, when the War Ministry left office, the public debts proper amounted to _£4,37 i .,000; he also said that the ten years' war had created a debt of £3,189,000, but there he pulled up short, and stopped producing figures, and in doing so he displryed far more sagacity than in the little he had said. It was a striking feature that while a ten years' war resulted in a debt of a little over three million, one year of peace had increased our liabilities by a million and a half, so that what it took war, bad as it was, ten years to do, Mr. Yogel would accomplish in two. Perhaps he was rot a good authority on these questions, it was a a sort of mania with him to oppose debts of all kinds. He had always voted against both provincial and colonial debts with one exception, and that was the Nelson Waterworks. Not that he claimed any credit for those, that was entirely due to the present Superintendent, while for the very able manner in which they had been carried out without exceeding the estimate, the greatest praise was due to the late very excellent Provincial Engineer, Mr. Blackeit. The only important loan the province had was that raised under the Debenture Act, and upon that he had divided the Council, and his was the solitary vote recorded against it. He felt a degree of pride in saying that in all the public measures in which he had taken part, he would not now, looking back, wish to see a single vote he had given reversed, but he would add in all humility that he now felt that he had often opposed measures in an improper manner, that he had said sharper things in the heat of debate, and hit a great deal harder than he should have done. In looking back on bis public career when in England, he hal often thought of this with sorrow, and he had made up his mind that for the future he would be more careful to avoid hurting people's feelings. Mr. Luckie might, in reply to what he had said about loans, say that money spent in war was money lost and thrown away — or perhaps it would be better to use his own words — " swept into the same whirlpool 'Like gems that drop into the sea and re-appear no more.' " There was a great deal of truth in that ; money might be spent much better than in war, but war was always expensive, and if it were necessary, it was always legitimate to borrow for it, but on the return of f peace prudent men should take steps to cease borrowing; and to lessen the debt that had been rendered necessary by war. JUr. Yogel had gone home, and to show the prosperity and resources of the country, had stated that we had struggled through ten years of ; war, during which we had incurred certain liabilities, and that now we wanted to raise money to be spent in . reproductive works. lie bad arrived ih England at a fortunate time, and h .d contrived to secure a small loan upon favorable terms, but English capitalists, when they learned how that money had been spent, and what there was to show for it, would very soon button up their pockets and decline' to advance anymore. With reference to immigration he would say that he did not believe anything was to begot by forced immigration at any time. It was a desperate case indeed when the colony was in such bad repute that it could not get. English people to come, buc was. driven to another country to obtain men, as every one that was forced out would be the means of keeping two or three others away. The letters that would be sent home by them would; have far more influence than any agent we might despatch there to gammon the people. Immigration should be a purely provincial undertaking, and what, he would ask, did they want of immigrants in Nelsoh, where there were young men far better than those who . were imported who were actually compelled to leave the place. Forced immigration was not likely to add largely to the revenue, and, if we were : to go on increasing our debts and burdens at the rate of a million and a half a year, where was the interest to be obtained ? Mir. . Luckie pointed to a property and income tax, arid they might depend that this would come soon enough, for the first honest Ministry that got into power would have to; put ' on : some tax that would- perfectly satisfy even Mr. Luckie. For his own part, he had always supported a tax upon land. Every tax, he believed to be an evil but the" least injurious they could have had was one upon property, as it would haye checked speculation. He had always thohght it ! desirable to^ keep the waste lands ready for occupation by those - who were willing' to work them, and therefore had looked upon a tax on r unoccupied land A as a. good and fair one. ' Greatly°''ashe;is^oul^}7eg_et'to see any 'addition to the presetit 1 -a3a.i6nj' J w_ must, if we were honest and'did hoiwisli to. repudiate pur debts, be ..prepared very, shortly =i'to subtnit to a most cru-hihg lias; and -every Ttoillidn^borrowed jwas:; adding, to .pur. danger , find .insecurity. , We

were simply borrowing on our land, and only held it as ' security for the money that might yet be borrowed, aud if this went on there was nothing but absolute bankrupcy before us. This was strong language, but stronger still had, been used on a similar subject by Mr. Luckie — not Mr. Luckie the candidate who addressed them the other night, but the Luckie of 1864. In the Colonist of October 18 of that year he found as follows : — '• The Government of the Colony has for years been adding to its debts, and like a spendthrift has been paying the interest of former debts out of the proceeds of new loans. There is only one word which explains what such a course will lead to, and that is ' Bankruptcy.' The longer that course is pursued the worse the denouement becomes. We said when tho notification of Mr.. Cardwell's appointment as Secretary for the Colonies arrived here, that his business experience would soon discover the unsafe path towards the gulf of debt which New Zealand was madly following, aud that he would do his best to prevent any further downward progress in that direction, It is evident he is determined to do so, and our Legislature and Government must now exercise the virtues of frugality aud wisdom. Hitherto the experience of the Governmental outlay of borrowed money appears to have been based on the spendthrift, motto, ' lightly come, lightly go," much to the cost of the colonists, who, a small handful of people, are individually saddled with a debt double the amount of that falling to the share of every per--0.1 in England." At that. time our debt was four millions, now it waa nine. On the 2nd of August the same year Mr. Luckie wrote— "We have wandered from the price of telegrams to the cost of the telegraph and of the Panama mail scheme. It is an ever present spectre in our eyes, in a colonial financial light, that schemes are presented by successive Ministries, and accepted by the House of Assembly, without that calculation necessary to avoid most erioncous results, which ordinary men of business would shrink from as from bankruptcy. The claptrap of the " expansive future of the Colony," aud its great " resources," is made the cxc is c for all these schemes, which commercial prudence would refuse to recognise, and the worst of it is, that when once they are entered upon, it is not only the present expense — always underrated— that has to be met, but it is afterwards deemed necessary to complete theni at all hazards, so as to save the money originally expended from being utterly thrown aw ay." Had he time, he could treat them to a great many very excellent articles by the same writer, but he had chosen the above as sho .ving what he had not before understood, namely, what Mr. Luclcie meant by progress. On the subject of Free Trade, Mr . Luckie had not made up his mind, but his (Mr. Saunders') had been quite made up long ago, and if it had not, his recent experiences in Europe and America would have quite determined him. What was it that made England tower so far above France, and her able rival America ? Simply that she adhered to free trade, they to protection. Of all taxes, he would say, keep clear of protective duties. He now . came to a subject on which he knew the meetiug would not agree with him, that of public works., It had been said to him at Christchurch — " Are you going in for the railway, Saunders, because, if not, it is not much use for you to go to Nelson, indeed, if you cannot outbid Luckie and promise them two you will be beaten." Now, this railway had answered one purpose. It had given rise to no end of claptrap and bunkum for ten years. He didn't know whether he would support it or not, and it would be exceedingly inconsistent in him to. promise to do so, as if he went to the Assembly it would be to do all he could to stop the present extravagant loans for any purpose, and it was very' unlikely tbat he would say, " you mustn't have any other railways, but give us the line to Foxhill." He would not shirk the question in any way. He came before 1 the Nelson public, rot because he was -very anxious to represent them,: but because he felt that he owed : them a debt of gratitude and duty v There was nothing he dreaded more than three months in that miserable House of Representatives, but he was willing to go there to watch, over their interests, which he believed were identical with his • own. He had. been elected in Nelson 27 times, and had never asked or thanked a man for his vote. He took a higher and a prouder stand. If he was willing to give up his time without benefiting himself, surely the obligation was n.ot on his side. If they could get a better man than he, by all means let them do so. 7 Of the American mail service he must say that he looked upon it as a piece of dreadful extravagance, and one that should never have been entered upon while we were so enormously in debt. Had the money spent upon it been laid, out in opening our coalmines, we should have had a far better service without expense to ourselves. We were import, ing a wretched article while, we had firstrate coal at our door. Did we devote oar energies to opening up these mines, they would -very soon _ecoup all expenses, and raise this province in its position with regard to the rest of the world. In the subject of Education he had always taken the greatest interest, and he had been at special pains to notice the various schemes he had met with in the course of his travels, and it was with . '. great pride that he was now able to say that he had not come across any system so good or that worked so well as that in force in Nelson. The Bill proposed to be introduced by the Colonial Government was founded on our Act, and even contained verbatim copies; of some amendments that he had introduced, into it, but, although it contained a good deal that was good, it was essentially a bad Bill. . ..The Nelson Act was the result of a vast amount of thought, trouble, and experience, as. from: time to time :ic had been amended, to meet the requirements of actual so far as he knew there was none in the world that worked' so' sthoothly; why then should it be interfered ' with"? : The Colonial Government should have treated the people of this province with aa much respect as was shown by the British Parliament towards the Scotch who were suffered to retain .their education system unaltered/ The Govern ment Bill' contained one most vicious principle; it: gave .the Governor power to interfere wjth .everything. All dis--cretionary power was handed over to the Governor and the Inspectors; the.local Boards could not' : even piit any book they pleased into ; the. schools; in fact . every particle of real power was vested in the Governor, that was, the Ministry of the day,,. and the consequence would naturally be that the schoolmasters would be con verted' into > political' agents working for the Ministers. Instead of .thiß,:.our,tchief aim should :be to maintain ;the strictest independence throughout the whole of the reducatiphal department,; and

to place the greatest possible amount of power in the hands of those directly interested in its working. With refeience to, local govt r. -ments he did not care what alteration was effected in the present form of the Provincial Goverment. , but what he should insist upon was that the power and the money should be kept at home so that each district or province should have the expenditure of tbe money itself had raised. An immense amount of mischief would tnsuedid the General Government succeed in extinguishing all local supervision. He had always thought that Provincial institutions were the best p. rt of the New Zealand constitution. The Colonial Government had not, and never would work well, because of the difficulty of finding men of the right stamp to attend Parliament, for very few were disposed to leave their homes for three months at a time to go to Wellington without the hope of being personally compensated in some way or another. The small number that had to be dealt with, and the comparatively large number of those who held paid offices, and of those who expected to do so when the others went out prevented that care and economy that were so sadly wanting in the New Zealand legislature. He saw his old friend Baigent in the room, and he wou'd ask him whether he ever saw the public funds looked after in the House of Representatives half so carefully as in the Provincial Council. His own experience of the House completely disgusted him with it, and if he were sent there by the Nelson electors it would be with but a forlorn hope, and the almost certain expectation of being unable to do any good. The English Parliament, composed as it was of some six or seven hundred men most of them of independent means and of high standing, formed a body that no Ministry could ever buy, and one that really made as good a form of Government as could be found anywhere, but here matters were very different, and in the absence of such men as could and ought to go to the House, the less we trusted to it, and the more power we could keep in the hands of those who did the work under our eye, the more economically and satisfactorily would bur affairs be managed. Both Mr. Richmond and Mr. Luckie had spoken of a stringent Disqualification Act, but he himself had no faith in such an Act, for it was more the sons, b-others, and other relatives who got office than the members themselves, and even the members would get what they wanted somehow or other rotwiths.and.ng the disqualification. The only remedy was that the electors should attach more importance to the character and honesty of their representatives, A great deal too much stress was laid upon the talking powers of a candidate, but it should be remeni oered that this was not essential in a representative, and that, although it was an advantage to have some members who were able to discuss the various measures, there were hundreds of men who could not speak who would do their duty honestly and in many instances better than those who talked so much. Their late member had been spoken of by another member of the House as a •' conscientious ass,'' but for his part he should be exceedingly glad to see the House composed of a greater number of such asses than were in it at present, and the Colony would now be in a far better condition if a majority of such asses had been sent to it. He would now allude to the other two candidates, and first to his old friend Luckie, of whom when he was a candidate for election in the town same years ago, it had been written in the Colonist : — " What do you find Mr. Luckie to be ? A man who has called your attention to every abuse of power and patronage — to evety wanton waste of public money — who long ago told you how your Trust Funds were being endangered — how. your College funds were being wasted, and the College itself made useless to the Province — who pointed out the worse than useless character of the Marine Board, the baseless calculations of Mr. Curtis's railway to the ' Western Ranges ; ' and who during the short time he watched the proceedings in the Assembly was able to detect and

expose many fallacies in the policy of the late Minis, ers. and much unwarrantable expenditure." Bearing this in mind he (Mr. Saunders) when he was on his way back to New Zealand through America, had heard of Mr. Yogel travelling alone in a carriage calculated to carry twenty-eight persons, detaining steamers, and altogether comporting himself in regal style, thought to himself, " When I get to Neison won't I tell Luckie of all this." (Here the laughter was so great that Mr. Saunders could not for some time be heard.) But now he had arrived in Nelson, and what a change did he find in Luckie ! Those who had been living here all the time had seen the changes coming over him gradually , and had become accustomed to them ; they had seen his teeth drop out one by one, his claws being day by day blunted and rounded off; the lion, by degrees, become as harmless as a lamb that was no longer feared either by the Provincial or General Government. But to him the change was absolutely startling, and he could not but call to mind Crabbe's lines : — " Minutely trace man's life, year after year, Through all his days let all his deeds appear, And then, though some may in that life be strange, Yet there appears no vast or sudden change. The links that bind those various deeds are seen, And no mysterious void appears between. But let those binding links be all destroyed, All that through life he suffered or eDJoyed ; Let that vast gap be made, and then, behold ! This was the youth, and he is thus when old ; Then we at once the work of time survey, And in a moment see a life's decay, Pain, mixed with pity, in our bosoms rise, And sorrow takes ncr sadness from surprise." In the course of his remarks he had said more than he intended of Mr. Luckie, and now he must speak of Mr. Richmond, whom, he was sorry to say, he found unaltered; he was just the same good private and bad public man that ever he was, and quite as ready as ever to dip his pen in gall when writing of Mr. Fox or Dr Featherstone. To take his speech the other night, and not know who Mr. Richmond was, he could say, " This will exactly do ior me ; I approve of it all." The figures were all carefully prepared , accurate, and honest; and, although he had tried hard to do so, he had been unable to discover any error in them, but still there was something in it that made him look upon Mr. Richmond as unchanged, in that he could never see any faults in a friend or virtues in a foe. He had told them with much virtuous indignation — and he believed he really felt it— of the reckless expenditure of the Fox Ministry ; but had it not been the Fox Ministry, he did not think it would have been quite so severely criticised. He never [attempted to put a stop to waste or lavish expenditure when his own party were in power. During the present war, when the most honest course to pursue would have For remainder of jicws see fourth page.

beenta curtail the expenditure, one of the first things they did was to raise the. Governor's salary; Mr. Richmond did not oppose that. Nor did he raise any objection when they increased the number of Judges, and raised their salaries from £800 to £15.0, on the plea, he believed, that, they desired able men to fill the office, although the same men remained at £1500 that previously held it at £800. Now, although Judges should most certainly be paid well, and placed above the reach of corruption, that was too great a rise, and at that particular time it was impolitic, and there were far too many. But Mr Richmond did not oppose that. When the Consolidated Loans Act, by which hundreds of thousands of pounds h/id been transferred from the pockets of the taxpayers of the colony^ to those of the shareholders in the bank of New Zealand, and other holders 'of Government bonds, he did not know the part Mr. Richmond had taken in that, but as it was done by the party he nsii^ilv acted" with, he had little doubt that he supported it. It was one of the grossest acts of injustice conceivable, and especially so to this province ; as by it Nelson was deprived of the benefit of the careful administration of her funds up to that time, and was placed almost on a level with those who had plunged into debt oy hundreds of thousands. The course which should then have been adopted by the Superintendent was to ; have done away with the provincial debt which might have been done in a month, and then with his fellow representatives to have gone to the House, and insisted that Nelson should not be compelled to enter into partnership with the other provinces with their enormous debts. Whilst he had the honor to be their Superintendent he had placed £12,000 at the Union Bank on deposit at 6 per cent/ interest to meet the debentures under the Nelson Debenture Act 17 months before they were due, by which time it would have amounted to £13,000, and if- Mr. Curtis had saved another £7000 tbe whole tbiDg might have been wiped out and for ever done with, and Mr. Curtis could have gone to the House with clean hands and said-with authority that could not have been resisted, we have no debt and will have notbing to do with the debts of other provinces. But instead of this Mr. Curtis had taken out the money even before the deposit receipt had expired, had scattered it to the winds, and then with an infatuation that he could not understand in any man of the smallest commercial capacity had not only consented/but had actually insisted upon going into partnership with such provinces as Wellington with its quarter-mil'ion, and Otago with its £1,190,480. The smallest debt was of course a sufficient excuse to compel Nelson to accept the same arrangement as the other provinces, and tbe rotten capitation which broke down the first year; aud would vanish altogether under the present extravagance, but if she had gone without any debt such an arrangement could not have been even proposed to her. A clearer duty never devolved upon any public man than that which devolved upon Mr. Curtis as their Superintendent and representative in this matter. One of the principal reasons for offering himself as a candidate for the City of Nelson that night— and he would ' not represent a district in any other province, for the present at least— was the hope that if elected he might be the means of obtaining some justice for Nelson in this matter. Mr. Saunders then sat down amid loud cheering. Mr.. Rankin then ascended the platform, expressed his disbelief in the Education rate, a general desire to pawn the whole country, and an opinion that "borrow while you can" was the wisest policy. Mr. Entwistle : Will you serve us with the same spirit as you did before ? • MrJ Saunders did not see why he should not, and indeed hoped to do it better than ever as he had grown both older and wiser. His' greatest interests were in Nelson, and he would not seek to represent the people of that proyinee if be did not wish to advance their interests before all others. Mr, Rowell: Would you support or oppose the present system of Provincial Governments ? Mr. Saunders would support them, but would be glad, if any improvement upon them were suggested, to adopt it. It was a great principle with him to retain local self government, and to keep the control of the funds as'near to home as possible. The policy of the enemies of Provincial ..Governments had been to render them as numerous as possible, but there was so much intrinsic good in them that they had outlived all such effortß to upset them. It was always the tendency of the. large centres of population to s! look too much after themselves, and to neglect tbe out districts. This , should be carefully guarded against, for the town was nothing without 1 the country, but the result of bis entertaining and 'acting up to such ah opinion was that in a'l his elections he had never had a majority in the town. „,_', Mr. Rowell 1 : What do you think of the present system of immigration ? Mr. Saunders : I look upon it as money worse „ than wasted. „ i ,Mr. Rowell : Can you tell us anything about the' international Labor Society ? 7 Mr. Saunders, , as a rule, objected to any com- 1 binatibn of one 1 class agai-ist* another as being ■'■ invaribly injurious to a'l parties, and principally to the class so combining. Mr. Rowell : \ T f elected, where will you 1 reside? '-' - "Mr; Saunders : At present I have no intention of leaving Christchurch. Mr. Rowell : Will you support the Permis.ive Bill? ...- •-;; - Mr. Saunders : Yes. Mr. Rowell : You take a very gloomy view of the future'of the colony • why did you not remain in England?' ' ! Mr. Saunders: I have returned more than ever impressed witb the conviction that New Zealand is one of the' best count lies in the world. It possesses levery' possible advantage with regardto both land and climate. : In Americathey have a difficulty in keeping a few sheep and cattie through, the. winter, and thevast superiority of tlus' place over .flat 'country is shown 'by. the. fact i "tbat7A!meri.-a with its. yastextent „and enormous resou-ces is compelled to come to us for wool. It is considerations' such as these that make me savage when, l, see, the. country mortgaged to the extent it is, and placed" in the hands' of the General * >In spite of all our advantages our progress is retarded 1 - by the people of :'.i Englond knowing that :we are the most- highly >t_«edf. community in the.woi.ld, and that before long we must be stillimore heavily taxed. : . j : < -_i.,.Mr.''RoW-BLL,- ...If elected*- will you .support the views of the majority ? „:. >■ '. . . i -v ; j; j Mr. Saunders : ~ I will not -pledge myself to tbat* //^ ■'§'"_; '-'"•r 1 -'•> ■" i . PP'ti '■.'' „ .• , ''■ s : Will you support any measure; . / ':m®a__i_a*-0 do away with the twopenny Stamp ,7 dWrP:X:. : P,,ppyXP-m;P~- 1 .. ,

Mr. Akersten : Will you endeavor to effect an alteration in the law of usury limiting the rate of interest to six per cent ? Mr, Saundkt!S : Certainly not. Mr. Akersten : What is your opinion of a ( Property and Income tax ? Mr. Saunders : I am sure that tbe first Ministry that is really honest and wishes to meet its engagements must .resort to one if not both of these taxes. I should prefer the property tax as being the surest means of getting at the absentee. Mr. Akersten : Will you endeavor to ameliorate the condition of the laboring class ? Mr. Saunders : I have said before, and I think all my previous votes and actions have proved it, that I am in favor of that which will confer the greatest good upon the greatest number. The only question that weighs witb me in any class question iB, who have justice on their side? Mr. Akersten : Are you in favor of tbe abolition of Grand Juries ? Mr. Saunders : Ido not think I am. I do not feel strongly on the matter, but it is one that should be approached Very cautiously. Mr. Akeesten : I have been told that in a lecture delivered by you in England, you said Nelson should be blotted out of the map of New Zealand. Is that correct ? Mr. Saunders : Your . nformaat should have invented something more probable than that. I certainly never said so. Mr. Haddow :. Would Mr. Saundeis introduce a bill to disqualify all paid, officers of the Provincial Government from holdhg seats in the General Assembly ? Mr. Saunders : If I could see any means of rendering tbat House more honest and more independent, I should gladly _ 0 -what I could to use those means. Mr. Haddow : Would you endeavor to prevent all paid public servants from carrying on any other business ? Mr. Saunders : I think in many instances that would work injuriously, and you could not have seen the drift of that question, because it r-ould disqualify mon like country post-masters and others, who get only small salaries, and fill up the ,- r time otherwise. Mr. Haddow : But if I am a baker, and another man gets 4.300 a-year from Government, and starts in opposition to me, is tbat ri^ht ? Mr. Sau_.D-.es : If the office is not sufficient to occupy a 1 ! his time, he would be entitled to do something for that pu.pose ; but if he got £300, and has time to start in opposition to you, that would not be right. Oa tbe motion of Mr. Webb, seconded by Mr. Hadfield, a vote of thanks to Mr. Sauaaders was carried ananirnously. : Three cheers were proposed; for Mr. Luckie and responded to with a mild hurrah and a running accompaniment of hisses. The latter would have been condemned by a musical critic as being too loud for the words.