RUGBY CONTROL.

Manawatu Herald, Volume XLVIII, Issue 3688, 8 September 1927, Page 2

RUGBY CONTROL.

FOXTON’S REQUEST FOR TRANSFER. DISCUSSED BY HOROWjHENUA DELEGATES. A special general meeting of delegates of the Horowhenua Rugby District Council was held at Levin on Tuesday evening to discuss relations between that body and the Manawhenua Union, which have been rather strained this season, owing to the disproportionate voting power possessed by the Manawatu section of the executive, resulting in the arranging of a progamme of representative matches in a manner unsatisfactory to the Horowhenua district. The result of the gathering was a resolution giving the delegates from this Council to the Union power to move in the direction of securing equal representation with Manawatu on the executive. The members of the Council present were: Messrs J. J. O’Connor (president), W. N. Anderson (County), J. Casey (secretary), M. Ryder (Wanderers), W. S. Joyce (Weraroa), A. Richards (Shannon), W. Neville (Foxton), W. Robson (Miranui), and J. W. Procter (Hui Mai). The clubs -were represented by the following numbers of delegates:—Wanderers 5, Miranui 5, Shannon 6, Foxton 3, County 2, Hui Mai 1, Paraparaumu 3, Weraroa 4; total 29. Awahou and Kuku were not represented. FOXTON’S REQUEST. After the above matter was disposed of, the subject of Foxton’s request to be transferred from Horowhenua to Manawatu was discussed. The subject was introduced by Mr. J. K. Hornblow, who referred to the locality of Foxton in relation to the football districts, and outlined the history of Rugby in Foxton as he had done at the public meeting recently held in that town. He asked leave to move the following motion: — “That the Manawhenua Rugby Union give consideration to the request of the Foxton Football Club and public tha't the borough of Foxton be included in the Manawatu District Council’s area.” The mover, said he had heard references during the previous discussion on the relations of Horowhenua with the combined Union, and to the prestige of Mr F. Robinsoi), and he regretted extremely that neither Mr Robinson nor his. club were represented the present meeting, because the speaker had one or two things to mention, which would have been of interest to them. Mr. Robinson had made a statement at a public meeting at Foxton, to the effect that it would be useless for a motion for secession to be brought before the combined Union as it would first have to be carried unanimously before the Horowhenua District Council. That was absolutely incorrect. Even the Horowhenua Council had not the*— power, according to the rules, to deal with an extraordinary matter of this nature. As a supreme council the Manawhenua Union should deal with matters outside of the jurisdiction of the domestic councils.* Their powers of the Council’s were defined. Before Horowhenua had the governing authority, there was a Foxton sub-union with teams at Foxton, Sandon, Rangiotu and Poroutawhao. A voice: How long ago was that? Mr. Hornblow: Possibly 20 years ago. For some reason or other, without any consultation.as far as Fox- - ton was concerned, it was removed from its natural area and transferred into Horowhenua. There was no motion, so far as I am aware, in favour of transfeering. However, Foxton came into the Union. Mr. J. W. Procter (Hui Mai): At their own request, subject to Manawatu approving of it, that was 18 or 20 years ago. CONTINUAL FRICTION. Mr. Hornblow: Since that time there has been continual friction between Foxton and the Horowhenua Union. I don’t know whether the grievances have been real or imaginary. There has been a cause, and it has not been removed. Meetings have been held with the object of asking to be transferred back into the Manawatu district. Two or three years ago an indigna- * tion meeting was held, possibly due to friction with this council, Foxton considerinjg .they were not being treated as well as they should be. Nothing came of it, except that it tended to discourage football in Foxton. Coming down to last year, the discontent was still manifest in Foxton. A public meeting was held and it was decided that the request should be sent on to the supreme authority for Foxton to be merged into Manawatu. That matter was discussed by, this Council last year. There was no deputation before the Council, but owing to the matter having been discussed by the 'Council, a depuation went on to Palmerston, and I understand that your chairman, Mi- O’Connor, said “Give us another trial, and if things don’t improve you e_an go into Manawatu.” When the matter was discussed, instead of the conciliatory spirit being abroad, many things were said that made this irritation continue. Foxton did feel aggrieved that its people should not be permitted to see classic football. Mr Hornblow added that he agreed with those who said that the matter was not altogether one of finance. It was not so much a mat- £ ter of marring a match that would £ bring in the largest amount of monev. If the Council were to pro-

mote the very best interests of Rugby in this district, they must go to Foxton, Otaki and Shannon, and af-> ford an opportunity —even at a sacrifice —for the younger people and those who could not travel long distances, to see rep. football. A HEARING ASKED FOR. “We continued in Horowhenua last year,” the speaker continued, “and the chairman said, ‘Well, let it go for another year.’ As a result of not receiving that treatment to which every club or locality is entitled from the Council, another public meeting was convened, and at that m'eeting it was stated that anoher effort should be made to request the governing body, through this Council, to allow Foxton to be once more merged into its geographical environment —the Manawatu district. I have been asked to come along to-night as a delegate of the Foxton Club and a representative of the public meeting, to submit this matter to you. We don’t want to quarrel with you, but to ask that you will, at this meeting, carry this motion, in order to afford us an opportunity to appear before the combined Union and to submit good and sufficient reasons to allow us to go back into the Mana'watu district. I do not ask that this meeting should commit itself as to what is going to be done, but simply ask thfft, if you have not the power to . deal with this matter, you will surely give us an opportunity to appear before the Union, with our request and submit our evidence before that body, and seeing that this Council has its representation there, that after hearing us, if you think it is a fair and reasonable request, support it. If not, we shall have to bow to the inevitable and stay where we are, or take such other action as may be necessary. I regret that Mr Robinson is not here, because he seems to be the moving factor, and possibly the leading man, as far as this district is concerned. A letter has been forwardto this Council, to the Manawatu Council, to the secretary of the combined Union, and to Te Kawau Sub-Union, so that if there are any objections to the proposed transfer they will have ample opportunity to discuss the matter. NOT GETTING JUSTICE. Mr Christie, in seconding the motion, said it had been felt for some time by business people and supporters of the game in Foxton that they were not getting justice from this Council. Football had apparently reached the stage where the first consideration was the gate, and the second the good old .game of Rugby. The Manawatu river was the natural boundary, and in the event of floods Foxton might be under the necessity of forfeiting club games in this district, whereas the players could travel in the opposite direction. He contended that the Moutoa players had been playing for the wrong union all the time — they should have been playing for Manawatu. Foxton had been offered better treatment in the last few years, but he could not see that they had had it. Mr Casey explained that the letter received from the Foxton Club had not officially come before the Council management committee, owing to the absence of a quorum. Rule 4 gave the Council power to deal with this matter as an amendment had been added this year which provided that no alteration of boundaries could be made without the consent of the district affected. Mr Hornblow stated that the rule was one governing the combined Union, and could only be exercised by that body. Constitutional matters could only be dealt with by the conjbined Union. Mr Casey: The rules were amended at the annual meeting of 1926, in accordance with notice. Some of the legaf men held that the proviso was not necessary, but I could not see that. We discussed the matter of a deputation coming from Foxton, and suggested that they put their ease at a meeting of the delegates. I would suggest that the motion be referred to the Council to deal with. Mr Hornblow: If you do that you simply ask that Foxton’s request be dealt with by the Council. The Council can throw it out, and the delegates have not a say. We have to state our case. It may be that this Council will not allow the request to go on. I don’t know whether these delegates present are going to support it or not. Is the chairman prepared to receive the motion? COUNCIL OR COMBINED UNION? The Chairman: I think this is not a meeting that should decide on this motion. Even if we sent it to the combined Union, they would have to refer it back here, to see if it was the wish of this Council that Foxton go into Manawatu. The Committee could not deal with it without referring it to a meeting of delegates, and I think it should be decided to-night by this full meeting. Mr W. Hannan (Wanderers) said that when the Foxton deputation came over last year, Mr. Barron stressed that they were not grumbling about how the District Council had treated them last year. Thp point particularly stressed was the flooding of the Manawatu river. There would be no harm in letting the question go to the combined Union, it would have to be referred back to the Council. If, as Mr. Hornblow contended, this Council had no power to deal with the ease, why was the deputation here? Mr. Hornblow: It is a matter of courtesy, when you are in the distrietj to lay the case before this body prior to taking it to the combined Union. W'e have brought it here for the delegates to support, and enable us to get a hearing—that is all.

Mr. Casey, replying to Mr.. Christie’s charge of injustice at the ,hands of the Council, said that he as secretary had spent more time this year in connection with Foxton than with any other club in the district. He did not like to see Foxton drawn out, because their juniors and thirds were two of the best teams in this area. Mr. Casey explained how, owing to a misunderstanding, the Thirds had been deprived of a match. FARAPARAUMU SYMPATHETIC TO FOXTON. Mr Reeve (Paraparaumu) said his club’s sympathies were with Fox'ton. Last year Paraparaumu had a senior team, and it was asked tc travel to Foxton to play. Was it reasonable to ask a team to travel 45 miles? His instructions now were that, if the motion was put to the meeting, he and his co-delegates would have to vote for it. It would be in the interests of football if Foxton were allowed to merge into the district they desired. Mr W. Robson (Miranui): They would not be any better off in that respect. Shannon is pretty well as Car from Paraparaumu as Foxton is. At Tokomaru and Miranui there would be the same trouble. 'ln past years there has been a division between north and south in the juniors. I don’t see why a division should not be ma<je in the seniors as well. Mr Barron stated that the Foxton deputation came over with a simple request last year, and not with a grouch. All they asked for this year was that their request be allowed to go before the combined Union. The Chairman stated that the district affected must give its consent, before any part of the district could be excluded, so this meeting was fully able to deal 1 with the question. Mr 11. J. Jones (Wanderers): Would Awahou have to play in Manawatu? Mr Hornblow: Yes. Mr Jones: It is hardly fair to them. Mr Neville: Awahou was represented at the public meeting, and the motion for transfer was carried with only two dissentient votes. THE BOUNDARIES. Mr' Hornblow said he believed that the boundary as defined in the New Zealand rule book was the borough of Foxton, and there was a note that included an area five miles from Foxton. Although this was so, it excluded Moutoa, and in that ease the rule book was wrong. Mr. Procter stated that Foxton applied to be affiliated eighteen or 20 years ago. “We all met in Foxton in the Herald office,” he added. “The boundaries were agreed to that night, from the Tokomaru stream to Rangiotu station, thence in a northerly line to the sea. Mr Hornblow: It does not state that in the rules of the N.Z.R.U., or the rules of the combined Union. Mr Procter: That was the boundary till this amalgamation, three years ago. The Chairman explained that the rule in regard to boundaries was to be corrected at a full meeting of the combined Union. He asked Mr Hornblow what he would suggest as the boundary for Foxton. Mr Hornblow said he would suggest the natural boundary—the Manawatu river. Mx- M. Ryder (Wanderers) said the discussion was out of order. There was a provision after Rule 4 that no alteration could be made without the consent of the Council concerned. A QUESTION OF PROCEDURE. Mr Robson: Is the motion in order? The Chairman: The motion is a request to go before the combined Union; but I will ask Foxton to alter that and put the motion before this meeting. Mr Casey: If there is going to be a« motion there will have to be notice, and all the clubs will have to be circularised. Mi- Hornblow: I came here in a conciliatory manner to ask for a fair deal. Even supposing that the Manawhenua Union refers this back, we will have had an opportunity to state our case to the supreme Council when our delegates are there. If it comes back to this Council, and you cannot agree to it, we shall have to either abide by it, or take the matter to a higher authority. Possibly this would not have been asked had not your representative said definitely at a public meeting that unless it was unanimous we would not get a hearing before the Union. Surely we have some court of appeal. Suppose the Council do not agree that Foxton can go out, do you say we have no further right to go anywhere else? Mr. Jones: I don’t think the Manawatu Union have any jurisdiction over this at all. , They don’t settle our boundaries, 'if Manawhenua refuse to deal with it, Foxton can go to the New Zealand Union. I think the motion is out of order. Mr Hornblow: If you are going to enter into legal quibblings on these rules, it is a question whether that addition is correct. The rules define what the powers of the Councils are. Mi-. Moynihan: Have you approached the Te Kawau Union as to whether they are agreeable. Mr. Hornblow: The letter has been forwarded, but no reply has been received yet. Mi- Hannan said that while he was dead against the proposed alteration of the district, as far as the request for a hearing by the combined Union was concerned he 1 did not think there would be any

difficulty in getting the hearing asked for by Foxton. The Chairman thought the meeting should give an expression of opinion as to whether Foxton should go out or not. AWAHOU NOT REPRESENTED. Mr. Casey pointed out that Awahou were not represented, but if notice of motion were given they would make some effort to attend. He thought the matter might go f orward as a request and be heard at the annual meeting. The Chairman: It appears to be the general opinion that this request should be granted. Mr. Ryder: If we pass this it will look as if we are in favour of Foxton seceding. Mr. Barron: I think we would be out of order in going to the combined Union first. The Chairman: I would suggest that if the meeting is unanimous, it would be in order to take it without notice of motion; but the clubs have not been informed that a motion would be brought forward, and they have not discussed it yet, so I think it would be best to send out notice of motion and let the clubs discuss it, and then assemble again and vote on it. It is patent, according to the rules, that this Council will have to deal with it first. Mr. Hornblow: Behind the Foxton Club stands the public of Foxtop. That is the feeling of the place itself. If we are compelled to remain in, well, you can take the horse to the trough, but you can’t make him drink. I don’t want to continue the present friction. If football can be promoted in Foxton there should not be anything to prevent them from going into another union. CAUSE OF FRICTION. Mr. Casey: Is the friction between the clubs greater than that between Foxton and the Horowhenua Council? Mr. Hornblow: I don’t know that there is'any great friction between the native team and the others. I should say the mlain cause of friction is the treatment meted out by the Council. Mr. Ryder asked for evidence, so that members of the Council could answer it. Mr. Moynihan: Apparently the position has come down to a deadlock. In the event of their going to the Union, we would have to hear them ultimately. I would not be prepared, as a delegate from Shannon, to vote straight out on it. We have not discussed it, and I don’t suppose the other clubs have. The Chairman suggested that Mr. Hornblow withdraw the request and put in a notice of motion for another meeting. Neither he (Mr O’Connor) nor Mr Anderson (County), was prepared to vote on the matter now, without their club’s sanction. Mr. Robson: If the majority of delegates here are of that opinion, the m'atter is out of order. MATTER OUT OF ORDER. The Chairman: I declare this request out of order, and open the way for Mr. Hornblow. Mr. Hornblow: Thanks I am sorry that I have taken up so much time. I take it that the request is already before you. It is not our fault that a meeting of the Council was not held to-night. I take it that there is nothing further to be done, except that you have the business before you and you will report back to the Foxton Club as to whether you are of opinion that the Club shall remain where it is on that you will grant the request to go to the Manawlienna Union. Mr Hornblow added that he would look up the records to see where the meetings of the Foxton Club were held with reference to amalgamation with Horowhenua. Mr Casey remarked that the letter from the Foxton Club would take time .to consider. If the Management Committee had had a meeting the letter would have come before it and some decision would have been made.

The meeting then proceeded to the next business.