MUNICIPAL COAL DEPOT.

Manawatu Herald, Volume XXXII, Issue 852, 14 June 1910, Page 3

MUNICIPAL COAL DEPOT.

HEATED DISCUSSION BY COUNCIL. MOTION RESCINDING PREVIOUS MOTION CARRIED. A notice of motion by Cr Gibbs to rescind the motion passed at the previous meeting of the Council that the Council start a municipal coal depot was responsible for a very heated discussion at last night’s Council meeting. The motion was seconded by Cr Speirs.

Cr Robinson asked if it was not necessary that Councillors should receive seven days’ notice that a notice of motion was to be brought forward. This had not been done.

The Mayor ruled that seven days’ notice should have been given, and the matter could not, therefore, be discussed, unless the Councillors were unanimous that it should go on. If Cr Robinson objected, then the matter would have to stand over until the next meeting,

Cr Robinson said he had no objection to the matter being dealt with at once. Before Cr Gibbs spoke, however, he would like to draw the Councillors’ attention to section 59 of the Municipal Corporations Act, which provides that no Councillor can vote on any question in which he is directly or indirectly interested.

Cr Gibbs said that he had absolutely no interest in the West Coast Steamship and Trading Coy., and had ceased to be an employee of the Company. The Mayor ruled that the section in question did not apply. Cr Gibbs, in speaking to the motion, said that there were three reasons why he was moving in the direction of rescinding the motion. The first was that the Council, before passing the motion, did not go into the question to see if the scheme was a workable one and could be made payable. In that scheme it was estimated that the Council would be able to deliver coal to the consumer for 30s 6d per ton. On looking through the figures supplied by Cr Robinson, it was obvious that several of the charges had been under-estimated. Then again, nothing had been allowed for tne land on which the coal shed was to be erected. Eand could not be got for nothing, and if all the borough yard was not required why not lease a portion of it ? It would be worth at least ,£8 a year, and this would add a further 6d per ton to the price of the coal. There were also tipping charges, which, according to the receipts produced, amounted to fourpence per ton. The estimate of is 6d per ton for carting was rediculously low, and he considered it would cost at least 3s for cartage. He understood the reason for moving in the direction of starting a municipal coal depot was to benefit the poor man —not the fat man. He maintained that anyone who could afford to buy coal in ton lots would continue —as had been the case in the past —to get it from the ship’s side and thus save cartage and trimming charges. He contended the most absurd proposal of all was that the Town Clerk should weigh the coal. He said he held no brief for that official, but if he was to spend portion of his time on a business of this nature then it should be made to bear some portion of his salary. The reserves, library and cemetery accounts each paid ,£ls per year towards the Town Clerk’s salary, and it was only reasonable to expect that the coal depot should pay the same, and this would add a further tenpence per ton to the price of the coal. In any case, if the Town Clerk would have time to attend to the coal business why did the Council at a recent meeting grant him an assistant. Another thing was that no allowance was made for sacks, loss for slack and dust and also for bad debts, insurance, etc., which items he considered would add a further sixpence per ton to the cost, making a total of ,£1 14s. Another reason for moving the motion was that he did not consider the councillors were elected to enter into a business that comes into competition with ratepayers without a poll being taken on the question. If so, why not at once become universal providers with the town clerk to look after the lot. His other reason was that according to a letter produced by Cr Robinson that the Minister for Mines had stated that it would not pay the State to scart a depot in Foxton, and if they couldn’t make it pay how on earth did the Council expect they could. Cr Speirs seconder of the motion, said the price at which Cr Robinson considered the Council could supply coal was ridiculous. He also ridiculed the suggestion that the Town Clerk should weigh the coal and contended that if a business of that nature could not afford to pay a man to look after it, it was not a thing for the Council to go in for. He was surprised that such a man as Cr Robinson — who was what was called a labour agitator, one who went about to see that men did not do too much work —should suggest that the Town Clerk should do this ad-

ditional work in connection with a coal department. The Mayor drew Cr Speirs, attention to the fact that he must not indulge in personalities.

Cr Robinson asked for a withdrawal of the words used by Cr Speirs.

Cr Speirs, continuing, referred to the newspaper controversy in connection with the coal depot question and said that Cr Robinson had, through the public press, and without taking the trouble to find out whether his statements were correct, stated that his (Cr Speirs’) reasons for voting against him at the last Council meeting were that he was a shareholder in the West Coast Steamship and Trading Co. He considered that was a miserable reason to give. He held no shares in the company. In fact he was not in a position financially at the time to put any money into the concern, and therefore no interest whatever in it. But even if he did hold a few shares, how could it effect him. He said it was the most paltry and miserable thing that he had ever heard of to suggest that he (Cr Speirs) would do such a thing. He had served on the Council for a number of years, and it could not be said that during that time he had in any way “ feathered his own nest.” When Cr Robinson found out that he (the speaker) was not a shareholder he withdrew the statement, but he did not withdraw the miserable aspersion that he had cast on him.

Cr Ross thought the whole thing had been brought forward without due consideration. Cr Robinson had estimated a sale of 30 tons per month. He said that after going into a few figures he thought that if a coal depot were to be established it would be necessary to purchase a horse and carl: and also employ a man. This would cost at least 15s per day. That cost would be for every day and would amount to ,£223 per year. On 1000 tons of coal this would mean an increase in price of 4s 5)4d per ton or on 360 tons, as estimated by Cr Robinson, would amount to 12s 2d per ton. He was of opinion that when Cr Robinson brought his motion forward he did not give it the consideration he should have done. Cr Robinson thought he was trying, and trying rightly, to give the workers coal at a cheaper rate than at present. In any case this business would have to be on a strictly cash basis and it was questionable whether, by making it so, Cr Robinson would not be defeating the object for which he brought it forward —to benefit the workers —as they would not all, perhaps, be in a position to pay cash.

Cr Adams said there was nothing he hated to see more than to pass a motion at one meeting and rescind it at the next. When he voted for the previous motion he did so without giving it the consideration he should have. He had then suggested holding it over, but the rest of the councillors favoured going on with it and rather than let it be voted out without due consideration, he bad supported it. After giving the matter further consideration he would inow support the motion to rescind the .previous one. He referred to the maxim, “ Do unto others as j'ou would be done by,” and said he did not think the Council should enter into competition with other trades.

Cr Levett, who supported the previous motion also said that he had voted without giving the question sufficient consideration, and after hearing Cr Gibbs’ views was prepared to support him on the grounds that the scheme was not practicable. Cr Coley failed to see the necessity for a municipal coal depot as state coal be purchased in four ton lots at a very reasonable price. He said Cr Gibbs’ statement that it cost fourpence per ton for (tipping was absolutely wrong and for any one to make a statement like that showed that he did not know what he was talking about.

Cr Robinson said that in reference to the statements that councillors had not given the matter sufficient consideration, he had suggested leaving the matter over at the previous meeting, but the other councillors were quite agreeable to go on with it. It appeared to him that it was the practice of Councillors to pass a motion at one meeting, and after they got outside discuss it, and then come along to the next meeting and want to rescind it. Cr Gibbs stated that his estimates for cartage were too low, but he would point out that he obtained these figures from the carriers themselves. Further, in the prospectus of the West Coast Steamship and Trading Co., the estimate for carting coal in sacks, was as 6d per ton. Bad debts had been mentioned. Councillors would remember that when the scheme had been outlined by him he had laid down that it was to be on strictly cash basis. He agreed that a poll of the ratepayers should be taken. It has been stated that the Town Clerk would not have sufficient time to weigh the coal, and asked “ Does the Town Clerk keep the books of, a - local syndicate in this office ?”

The Mayor said he did not know.

The Town Clerk said that if it could help Cr Robinson he did. Cr Robinson : “ Well, sir, I say that if the Town Clerk has got time to keep books in our time then he can find time to weigh the coal.” The Town Clerk: ‘‘Although I keep the books I do not do them in the Council’s time. _ I come back and work from nine till ten o’clock at night on them.” Cr Robinson: “The Town Clerk says he works until 9 or 10

o’clock. Then sir, this, should be put a stop to, tor if he is not using the Council’s time, he is using our gas and we are paying for it. He went on to refer to the time taken by the Town Clerk in attending Wanagnui Education Board meetings. If the Town Clerk was not being paid enough for the Borough work then he should certainly be paid more. The Town Clerk: “Do you suggest that I have neglected the Borough work ?’’

Cr. Robinson said he did not suggest any such thing, and asked whether the Town Clerk had a voice in the discussion. On being sold by the Mayor that he had the floor Cr. Robinson continued and said that his reason for bringing these matters forward was on account of it having been said that the Town Clerk had plenty to do without weighing coal. In reference to the statement in the newspaper correspondence that Cr. Speirs was a shareholder in the West Coast Steamship and Trading Co., this mistake was made by the person whom the speaker got his list of shareholders from, and as soon as he found he had made a .mistake he withdrew the statement. The shares in question were not held by Cr. Speirs but were held by his son. If Cr. Speirs denies that that was the reason he voted against the coal depot, what other argument did he use ? His only argument was that one shilling per ton was not sufficient to pay interest. The Mayor said that when the matter was before the Council on the previous occasion he did not voice his opinion. His reason for not doing so was that the scheme propounded by Cr. Robinson looked so unbusinesslike that he did not think anyone but the mover would support it. It did not emenate from a business man and he did not see there was anything in it by which consumers would benefit. He was sorry to see Cr. Robinson enter a newspaper correspondence and give reasons why certain councillors had opposed the scheme. When he saw the letter he was disgusted that he should impute such a thing. He contended that not ten or even five per cent, of the people along the street would look upon it as a businesslike scheme. They asked what right the Council had to enter into competition with private traders, and he considered it was infra dig for the Council to consider such a thing. In reference to the statement about the rescinding of motions, he said there was no doubt that in this case the motion had been passed without due consideration. He was very sorry that mention had been made about the Town Clerk and the businessh e carried on in the office. While there might be something in what Cr Robinson said, those who had served in the Council in the past knew what the Town Clerk was doing. He said they ; would have to go a long way before they would get another to carry out the duties in the manner in which the Town Clerk had done. It was out of place that the Town Clerk should be called to book for doing outside work. It was not right to ask a Town Clerk to undertake the weighing of coal, and he did not think he would stand it for a week. The scheme, he considered, was not a businesslike one. It would be necessary to have a man in the yard. He believed Cr Robinson brought the scheme forward with the intention of benefiting the people. Cr Speirs said that in reference to the time spent by the Town Clerk on Education Board matters, those who were members of the School Committee knew how valuable his services in that connection had been. A great amount of money had been spent by the Board in Foxton that would not have been spent if the Town Clerk had not been a member of the Board.

Cr Stewart said that prior to the last meeting he had gone into the question with Cr Robinson, was of opinion that the scheme was a workable one. All the arguments he had since heard had not changed his opinion, and he was still prepared to support it. Cr. Adams’ maxim was an excellent one, but it had to be properly applied and the question was how to apply it. It had been said that it was a preposterous thing to expect the Town Clerk to weigh the coal but he did not see that it would be derogatory to his position to have a look at the weighbridge to see if a load of coal weighed a ton or 19 cwt. Cr. Rimmer admitted that at the previous meeting he did not give the matter any consideration, and after hearing the arguments used by the previous speakers he would now favour rescinding the motion. By starting a coal depot it would be taking the bread out of other people’s mouths, and being a working man himself he would not favour that.

Cr. Gibbs’ reply, at the request of the Mayor, on account of the lateness of the hour, was very short, he contenting himself with briefly referring to some of the statements made by the different councillors.

The Mayor pointed out that the Town Clerk had, by resolution of the Council, been granted leave of absence to attend Education Board meetings. The motion on being put was carried, Crs Robinson and Stewart being the only dissentients.