Untitled

Lyttelton Times, Volume XI, Issue 694, 2 July 1859, Page 5

HOUSE OF COMMONS—Monday, April 18. THE PRESENT STATE; OF ' EUROPE—THE GOVERN- ; ■• : •'■ MENT;EXPLANATIOId':: 'r' :'; ,"'■;/■■ ; The Chancellor of the Exchequer having appeared at the bar of the House. ; ' The Speaker, addressing him, said: The Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, advancing to th& table, said: Papers, Sir, relating to. treaties, political, and territorial, in reference to the Italian States.:,; „;; f ,-. ■".; .--,:,.-•. •■:•• . : -.. - ..;■ ■ ';■ .. "The" Eight Honorable, gentleman, then, amid the most solemn, silence of the House, proceeded as follows: Sir, in rising to.move ; that these.papers be laid upon the table', I"shall redeem the pledge I have given'tol the Houseupon this subject, arid, shall give an opportunity to gentlemen w,ho wish to follow the few- remarks I am about to make, by observations of their own; -arid lani sure that, in so doing, they : will see "the importance of making those observa-; tions. with, all that reserve which; in their opinion, | may be conssisteiit.with.the' exercise of their public i duty. Sir, Ipromised; that to-day-I would place.-j; before the House the; sta,te ( of the negotiations which |i her Majesty's Gd^ernment: have been carrying oir in I repect to the affairs bf Italy. I think it/was towards || the close of last year that her Majesty's Government, were aware that there was a considerable' sense"'of f irritation respecting the affairs, of Italy, between I France and Austria. Sir; her Majesty's Govern-j nient instructed the Queen's Ministers at the Courts '•. of Paris aridl Vienna to take every practicable oppor- j tunity, of softening that: acerbity of feeling and of • removing the. misconceptions that; existed be- ■ tween those two parties. At the beginning/ of the, year circumstances occurred which are, I am sure, fresh in the recollection ot hon. members, and which rendered the misunderstanding between France and Austria a matter of public notoriety; and Her Majesty's Government then felt that they were placed in a position which entitled them to a more direct explanation- than previously they had felt themselves' authorized to demand.s :To France we have been intimately allied upon questions of general international policy, and with itwe have been acting yfiih. complete cordiality upon many important questions. Between Austria and England there.has alsolprevailed a good understanding—-an understanding of ancient; date and of the closest character. It appeared to us,' therefore, that it was. an opportunity upon whibh her Majesty's ministers might iriterfereV and: by the exercise of their influence and good offices, contribute to the' maintenance: of that general peace in which the' Syorld at large is so much interested. Our position at that moment was one which authorized u& to assume it a favourable one for undertaking a duty of that kind. I thinkj. Sir, that; at, the. beginning of this year it mightiha,ve been said, what perhaps in the nature, of things has been very rarely in the power of any minister to say—-I don't mean to take any credit to the present ministers fpr saying so much—-but it is a fact, that there was neither in the powers of the first class, nor in. the powers of the. second class, nor indeed with any portion of the political and monarchical hierarchy— a misunderstanding, of any character, whatsoever with this country; There was no question; with any of the existing powers prevailing at- that moment to render us at all antagonistic, and therefore our position was such as I think to be strictly favourable for the task ■which we had undertaken, namely, that of acting the part of mediator. Sir, under those cireumstan- j ces, the Queen's ambassador at Paris arid her Majesty's Minister at Vienna, received instructions to inform themselves to the utmost of their abilityof the exact views entertained on the part of both France and Austria, and what were the probable reasons of the want of that complete cordiality and concurrence existing between those great powers. There werel several causes supposed to be in existence which had contributed to that unfortunate misunderstanding. The first was that which had occurred in relation to theDanubian Principalities; but there were other causes following thereupon. Some of these, however, were happily removed, and redressed by diplomatic management. I think, however, that I may say that the, real and more prominent cause of the misapprehension between these two powers was to he found in the unsatisfactory condition of Italy. Well, Sir, her Majesty's Government-instructed Lord Cowley to take all possible means of ascertaining the views of the Hinperor of the Frencli upon that subject. Lord Cowley. was, I must say, responded to with the same frankness which he had himself always exercised, and lie informed us that he believed he was in po.ssessipn of the genera^ views and feelings of the Emperor'of the French as to the condition of things at that moment. Now, perhaps, I may be allowed to make an observation as to what were the views of'her Majesty's Government at that time upon the subject. I believe, Sir, I may say that, generally speaking, • the views of:her Majesty's Government had always been expressed in this and in the other House of Parliament by eminent statesmen, of. all schools and, parties. Those views may be simply stated in these brief words: we could not>for a moment maintain that the condition of Italy, generally speaking, was one that was satisfactory. ■ Her Majesty's Goverment, during the Conference, at Paris, had assented to the propriety ofinquiring .into «the cause of, the discontent which led to this feeling of dissatisfaction. We were of opinion, as I should think all persons i who have deeply: reflected on this' subject were also of opinion, that it ■•waS'-'mbsV unwise to disturb the settlement

whichihad be'en made by thY treaty^ BiU Tlie position which s A.ustria^OQ^at; th^ ■time, of the,settle n ment of 1815 was 'one thatVas cohcuWedin by the great) statesmen^; of at that; tinie^ It? was* then,considered.a.m^tter.-.q^ great importance as.jre^ gards the'maintenance of power that Austria should exerciseithe predominnnt iinfluence In Italy. It-was1 also m^nlipne^d tha| jthe kingdom of Sardiniawhich; during the revolutionary struggles, was an .inferipr power, should be greatly^ extended and increased in authority. There were, two principal objects,,in vidwiri the settlement of I^ls, so" far as Italy was ' concerned.: Nor is' there a'ny^ error; greater than to suppose tliat when'Wspeak of the settlement5 of 1815,; in respect Lto Italy, it • was the interest of Austria exclusively that was concerned.; As I have observedi before that settlement, Sardinia was in a position of irifetior importance.,1. The settlement, however, of 1815v'added. greatly to the: territory of Sardinia,: and converted it dnto a power of considerable impprtance. But it was impossible for uSjUordowe; wish, to deny the' fact, that the occupation of. the central'states of Italy by an army, and by the exercise of-rAustrian influence over those states, which1 were acknowledged to be: a settlement by the Congress of Vienna, was a condition that was extremely, unsatisfactory, and one which, it,, was; desirable should be mitigated, and, if possible, removed., (Hear, hear.) But* generally speaking, whatever changes we thought desirable hr Italy, it was: our opinion: that it.,wipuld;noti be wise to seek their, retrioval by war or reyolutipn, but rather, to effect; our objects by tlie influence of public opinion, which! was every year becoming' more powerful, and to obtain the.good offices.of those powers whose general influence was calulated; to render. their, advice of considerable weight. Lord ,Co\vley having reported: to her Majesty's-Government that the.views I have endeavoured; to indicate had been admitted, and that the conversations he had had with the Emperor of the French were, satisfactory^ we requested Lord Cowley to repair to London, where;we .might,have the advantage of his personal communications. Shortly "after Lord > Cowley's arrival in London, her Majesty's Government' directed him to proceed to Vienna. Lord Cowley, however, did not then go to Vienna in what is called an official capacity, nor did lie get formal instructibris. : Lord Cowley was simply employed byiher Majesty's Government to state the object of his mission; and to declare that he.was placed' in a position, as he believed he was,' and which ; there; could be no doubt 6f^ of com municatingthe : actual feelings, and views of the Emperor of r the French upon ; the. important questions at: iss,ue. He, was, also to ascertain hbw ; far it; was practicable, for Austria to fall into the ; views and." policy, of the! course, indicated by the Emperor of the French,' and, by so doing ;to endeavour, to settle, the position of Italy'upon a much more satisfactory foundation than had herer tofbre existed, arid thereby1 to effect such arrangements, as- would tend to the preservatioh of peace. (Hear, hear.) 1 ought^ to 'observe. Sir, that before - LordC.o.wley undertook; this office, it was considered that)it might .possibly: lead.-to:a misunderstanding with .the. Emper.or ofi the French if he went as our amba,ss,ador-'.to" Vienna, without our having, made any communication to his Imperial Majesty on the subject of his intended mission. Sir, we made that communication to the sovereign, of France, and I am, bound to say that the emperor approved of the step, and expressed his satisfaction at the appointment of Lord Cowley—that he expressed his approval of the-views being conveyed by Lord Cowley, who was, he believed, in the confidence of the'eourt of Vienna. I ani bound to say, Sir, and I believe I may say that the expression:is perfectly justified, that the mission'of Lord Cowley was eminently— not only eminently, but entirely—successful. (Hear, hear.) .It was a mission, Sir, of mediation.- The Emperor of Austria responded to it in all its ma - terial points^ AH the points which had been suggested for consideration by the Emperor of the French were agreed to and cordially considered. (Hear, hear.) And when Lord Cowley returned to London and was about going to Paris, there was not a doubt on his mind or on the mind of her Majesty's Government that the mediation had turned out satisfactorily, and we felt that we should be able satisfactorily to conclude those; points of controversy which had unfortunately arisen between Austria and France in regard to the, Italian States. But before Lord Cowley could arrive at Paris, the Court of St. Petersburg, animated, no doubt, by the best feelipgs, as \vejhave been^ and with an earnest desire to prevent Avar^the Court of St. Petersburg, as'-'T have said, through its ambassadors, proposed to the Emperor of the French that those points of controversy should be submitted to the consideration of a congress, and his Majesty the Emperor of the French had acquiesced in that proposal. The Congress was to consider the proposition as regarded the points of controversy as being represented by five great powers. We were.informed of this at the same time by an official communication made to her Majesty's Go% rernment. We had to consider-—how~ ever successful had been the scheme of mediation which we had entered into, and which was conducted so far successfully—we had, I say, to consider what chances we were to have of completing those arrangements we had entered into at a time when another plan, which had been acquiesced in by the Emperor of the Fx*ench, had been afterwards agreed to. Under, such circumstances it was a question with us Avhether it would be wise to accept such a scheme as that in which Lord Cowley had been engaged in the presence of a formal proposal, communicated by the Court of St. Petersburg to the Emperor of the French, and which that potentate acquiesced in. We therefore stated our willingness to adopt the latter proposal on these four conditions, with which, I have no doubt, the House is already familiar, and which I will now proceed to state. These conditions were subject to the general condition that the Congress was not to enter into the settlement of 1815, which was to be taken as admitted. These Avere then the four conditions: The four conditions, on., which it was agreed the Congress should meet were these : First of all, the evacuation,of the Roman States by foreign troops ; second the reform of the administration of the Roman States; third, the best means of preventing a. war from breaking out between Austria and Sardinia; and fourth; in providing a substitute for the separate treaties between Austria and those central States of Italy between whom and Austria separate treaties have been entered into. (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, those four conditions were accepted by France, by Russia, and by Prussia, and they were accepted by Austria with a fifth condition, which, in reality, was only a fair interpretation of the third condition. The, third condition was the means by which peace can be best preserved between Austria and Sardinia. The fifth condition suggested by Austria was, as I have said, an interpretation of the third condition, for it was a definition by Austria of the third condition, namely, that it implied a disarmament -of Sardinia.- When Austria made that proposition to her Majesty's Government, we did not approve that any course should be taken which should- humiliate Sardinia, or which would have a tendency to humiliate Sardinia, or which would make, her appear humiliated; and, therefore, we said we could not approve of that condition as it would secure the disarmament of Sardinia as a preliminary to the Congress, taking into consideration the general affairs to be considered by it. But, as it was of the greatest importance that these difficulties should be surmounted, and the Congress held, we offered to France that, if Sardinia would disarm, we and France should guarantee Sardinia from attack by Austria for a certain period, Austria entering into a solemn engagement not to attack Sardinia. But, Sir, tliat proposition was not;accepted. At that moment the proposition for a Congress was accepted by the five great,powers, by 'which it was to be- conducted according to. the general propositions. Under these circumstances we hadto bring, the question before the Court of Vienna;, and I am bound to say that, with that spirit and distinguished consideration which, on the whole, Austria has shown through these negotiations, that great power consented to remove that, invidious condition of the disarmament of Sardinia, and proposed that there should^ be a general disarmament. That was a proposition which her. Majesty's; Government received with favor. We submitted it tothe Court of the Tuileries; and it was just after we so submitted it, and before we received an answer, that tlie noble lord, the

member, for Tiverton, gave notice of. bringing forward the general question of the state of the negotiations, and it was the fact of our not having received an answer that induced me to ask the noble lord''not'to press the, question', oh that occasion. Since th'cn, we ha've'received an answer from France; and France has accepted the proposition from Austria,' that there should be a general disarmament. Whether that disarmament should take pliice before the meeting of the' Congress, or whether when the Congress meets, itshould.be first taken into consideration, is not settled. ' There are two opinions on it. Another is in favour of a general disarmament before the Congress. France would prefer that when the* Congress meets, a general disarmament should be the first subject it discussed. Her Majesty's Government would approve very much of the sug- ■ gostion of Austria, if all the other powers were equally favourable to it; but unfortunately Sardinia ; has not accepted the proposition of a general disarmament; and, therefore, it is tiseless to go into : matters of detail when the principle is not settled. ;It follows, then, that whether the disarmament should be accepted before the Congress meets, or whether the condition of the disarmament should be the first considered by the Congress —are really matters which sink into secondary importance, when a Power so interested in these affairs as Sardinia has not accepted the very principle itself, the disarmament. It is supposed that Sardinia has uot accepted this principle of disarmament because she has not been invited to take a part in the Congress. On that point I would make one or two observations ;—There is, no doubt, in this country great sympathy enlisted for the cause of Sardinia

(hear, hear) ; and notwithstanding that there may have been some alteration in the strength of this sentiment to what there was some little time ago-and \ notwithstanding there is much that is perplexing, annoying, and even ambiguous in the conduct of

; Sardinia, I am bound to say that upon.the whole, I England is not wanting in feelings of kindness and justice towards her. Her Majesty's | Government, therefore, has been disposed to place

I the most generous interpretation upon her conduct, j looking at the difficulties which Sardinia has had

Jto encounter. But I will remind the House that I the proposition before us was for a Congress, of the I five great Powers, and that that proposition ! emanated from a power very favorable to Sardinia, i It; was difficult, therefore, to see, if such a proposition were.-accepted, how Sardinia could appear at i the. Congress. No doubt Sardinia was justly enI titled to a place at the Congress of Paris. She had i taken a very spirited part in the Crimea, and she

I had endured sacrifices that fairly entitled her. to | share in. those councils. But in the present instance ; she 'can liaVe'no such claim.'. ', Sardinia' is not a, great i power ; and if she demanded admission, to^ the ;Gonigress as a second-rate power, why might' she to be \ present there more than Sweden'/ Portugal, or Holland ? But then it is said Sardinia ought to be there because she is an Italian state.: (Hear, hear.) Well, if Sardinia is admitted, .why also should not other Italian states ? The Congress. r would meet to decide as to questions interesting'to the other Italian states—whilst it would not have power to touch Sardinia, whose boundaries and whose in-

terests are dependent upbiithe. settlement of 1815,

Under these circumstances, then, it was open. tq> ■ them to' have followed the precedent of the Congress of London, when Hollanflk and''Belgium,! .although not admitted to take part in the deliberations of the Congress, were permitted to be present and make known their, opinions^ Or they might have followed a precedent still more, analogo,u§—thatLof...,the .Congress of Leybach; where all the Italian-powers were admitted,' and sometimestook a "part in the deliberations? And her Majesty'siGovfernnient"would have gladly urged the desirability of following: either of these precedents in order ; ,that sonje- means, might be found-by, which the interests of the Italian States wouldbe. niostsecurely guarded before the Congress. I have shown, .then, to the Hpujse jthat..the. .original scheme was one of mediation; -betiween France and Austria. I have shown "that there was every prospect of that mediation.:;; beingf I have shown, however, also; that dfj"that■state of things a counter proposition Avas; advanßed^'Byi Russia, and that the proposition met with acceptance. -We are, therefore^ in -.this; condition. \ France ;and Austria have alike accepted the proposal of ageneral disarmament; and though those two great powers, are not as yet agreed as to the. manner in which the disarmament is to: take place, they are agreed as to the principle. Sardinia, however, has not accepted the principle, and we have reason to believe that this is because of her not having found a place at the Congress. At the same time I shall hope that under these circumstance, the difficulty on the part of Sardinia is not insurmountable.. Indeed, I have the satisfaction of being able .to inform the house that this morning Count D'Aseglio arrived iri this country tin: a special mission from Sardinia; that 'lie has-already had'an interview with the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs; and that we augur from his presence in England the most beneficial effects. Count D'Aseglio is a man of enligl/tened' and temperate opinions;

and I cannot but; believe that under his guidance, Sardinia will take <that course which will prove most conducive to the interests of Italy and the pacification of Europe. I cannot believe that, under present circumstances, there is any power that would wantonly provoke war. There is a power which may not be present at this Congress, if it takes place — a power greater than that of Emperors and Congresses — the power of public opinion, and I do not believe that in this day that is a power which can be wantonly outraged. (Hear, hear.) Sir; I shall think it a gross outrage upon public opinion if, under the present circumstances, with respect to the Italian question, no solution of the difficulty shall be found, but that of the sword. On the contrary, it appears tome that the elements of a settlement are in existence. And although' I know it is disheartening in the conduct of negotiations to find that we do not arrive rapidly at the results which may be desired, still, upon the whole we cannot but trace that in all that has occured, the predominant desire has. been that the solution shall be one of peace. (Hear.) Ido not desire to conceal that the issue is no mean one. War in Italy is not war in a corner. War cannot disturb the .waters of the Adriatic without agitating the waters of the Rhine. The port of Trieste is not a free Italian port—it is a port which belongs to the Germanic Confederation, and I take it that a port at Trieste is not a port in Austria, but in Germany. If war, then, spreads beyond the precincts of Italy, England' is interested not merely for those enlightened principles of civilization which makes her look with an adverse eye on any attempt to disturb the peace" of' the - world, but England may be interested from material considerations, of the wisest and most urgent character. Under these circumstances I am quite sure that the House will treat with all temperateness that is desirable the question that is brought before them this evening. They have placed before them, •without reserve, the position of the negotiations, arid Sir, I will express more than my hope—l will express still my belief—that, by firmness and conciliation, the peace of the world may be maintained.