Provincial Council.

Lyttelton Times, Volume III, Issue 148, 5 November 1853, Page 7

Provincial Council.

TUESDAY, 25th October. PROVINCIAL EXECUTIVE GOVERNMENT BILK. (Continued from last week.) Mr. Packer had heard the arguments on both sides, and was rather inclined to a middle course. He agreed that an Executive Council was necessary ; but he thought it would be more safe that it should comprise only one or two members from this Council. He objected to loading a small Government with a heavy executive machine. This bill proposed a Provincial Secretary, who no doubt must be a paid officer; then a Solicitor, and a Treasurer, no doubt paid too: and, more objectionable still, there was to be an Auditor, appointed by the Superintendent. Now this officer should he independent of the Superintendent, and responsible to the Provincial Council, if possible. If both Treasurer and Auditor were in one interest, the latter office would be a dead letter. He had no objection to the selection of a few members to advise the Superintendent. But in forming an executive staff, it should he remembered that they bad only to deal with an income of about £4,000 a year, or that of a small parish in England. Mr. Hamilton said it was not provided that officers only should necessarily compose the executive Council. Mr. Tancked and Captain Simeon also observed that Heads of Departments would not necessarily be members of it. | Mr. Packeis. That was coining back to the j old story —five members of Executive Council, and two Heads of Departments besides, —and the Superintendent had a majority of seven at once (laughter.) Mr. Bkaley rose to order. The preamble was under discussion ; but honorable members were going into every item of the Bill. Mr. Packer maintained that he was in order. He thought the proposed staff too heavy. These four officers would require half the revenue of the Province. Mr. TanCred reminded the Council that the question before them now was, whether the form of the Executive Government should ba. determined at all by law or not, and not the. manner in which it should be determined (hear.) Mr. Hamilton said the honorable member, for Christehurch Country (Mr. Hall^ had questioned the expediency of this measure : but the measure had been three weeks before the Council, and no other gentleman had brought in a bill, enabling Government to be carried on in accordance with any different, views. As there, was no other measure before the House, he must support this one. After all, the Superintendent was always so far responsible to the Provincial Council, that it was competent to. them to address Her Majesty for his removal; and Her Majesty could do. so, either herself, or by theGovernor. The proposed Executive Council would act as a drag on any, hasty and inconsiderate measures.winch his. Honor might wish to adopt: if he should act against their advice, and they should resign, it does, not follow that he could find others in this Council able to carry his measures through. As to amateurs, be confessed it was quite true that all in this Council as well as in the Government might be so termed ; they were amateur legislators, because they thought they might do some »ood to the Province by being so. The practice, of connecting some members of this Council with the Executive Government had already been useful. Without it, Government could* never have brought in measures, or got on at all. He thought Sir J. Pakington's despatch should be taken for just as much as it was worth, and. no more. In many cases, the opinions of leading members of Her Majesty's Government as to our affairs, had been found to be at variance with our own : we bad for years been struggling to assert that local knowledge was the best for arranging our own affairs (hear;) we were not now to have Sir J. Pakington's opinions crammed down our throats on every opportunity (bear, hear.) That gentleman had not been reckoned the first, even of Colonial Ministers; but he had been esteemed .as a man of sound sense, willing and ready to be pushed forward by those who had knowledge on colonial subjects. It was in this spirit, probably, that be had written the paianraph on which the learned member for Lytteltoii (Mr. 'Dumpier) bud so much stress, asserting " the power of the Geei^

ral and Local Legislatures " to provide cxecu- | tive antboritv for the Superintendents. That expression rather tended to prove than to disprove the case of the Provincial Government, in asserting the powers of the Council to pass this bill (hear, hear.) The presence of members of this Council in the Executive Council would be a guarantee that the Superintendent should learn through them what may be the general feeling of the representatives of the whole settlement, aud frame bis measures accordingly; j therefore such an appointment would in no way fetter the independence of any member accept- j ing it. It had been objected that a few members, being Executive Councillors, might meet | together, and pass bills in the absence of others. If so, that would only shew, either that the others were negligent of their duty, or that they were perfectly satisfied with, and consenting to, the policy and measures of the Superintendent. The amendment was then put, and lost; and the preamble and clause 1 passed. On the 2nd clause, providing that not more than two members, other than the Speaker, of the Provincial Council, should be appointed Executive Councillors. Mr. Bealey moved that the words " other than the Speaker" be omitted. Three members was one-fourth of this Council, —too much, he thought, to be named an Executive Council. These organized bodies acted together, and a comparatively small number in such a case became large in effect. The Speaker, especially, ought to be utterly unbiassed (bear). Mr. Dampier seconded the amendment. Mr. Tancred defended the clause, pointing out that it did not absolutely require the Speaker to be one. There was much work for Government to do in this Council, and he really thought three would not be too many. The amendment was put and lost. Mr. Hall suggested the omission of the words which might be taken to imply the principle that the Speaker should be one, and the substitution of words to the effect that " not more than three members" could be named. Mr. Hamilton said that the question would turn out to be one of how much constant work in that Council, each of the Government members could bear. That work now was very great, and fell practically on two gentlemen,— the Speaker taking no part excepting in Committees. It was generally understood that the Speaker, once chosen, was to be considered a man of no party. In England, the Ministers certainly insisted on getting a Speaker of their own party in; but this was to show honor to one of their own party, and not supposed "to affect his impartiality. He had no objection at all to say " not more than three members," leaving out all about the Speaker. This was really not a question of controlling the independence of the Provincial Council. He hid no fear but that, if the Superintendent proposed measures iv the Executive Council with which they could not agree, they would resign. Mr. Hall moved an amendment embodying bis suggestion. Mr. Cookson seconded this motion. Mr. Bealey opposed the motion. If the Speaker were not one, the Superintendent could thus appoint three members out of eleven, and as there was often a House much smaller than the full number, the Speaker, if one of the Government, though not iv the Executive Council, wo.dd have a casting vote to give in their favour. The amendment was then put and carried. Clauses 2. 3, with a verbal amendment by Mr. Dampier, and 4, were then passed. On clause 5, constituting the offices of Government, .Mr. Hamilton gave some explanation of the duties of the proposed officers. The Provincial Secretary would'be like the Colonial Secretary under the old system : that is, manage the correspondence of the Government, direct the Government Gazette, in short, keep in order all the General business of the Province. For the present, the Supeiintendent proposed to carry on these duties. Hereafter they would probably become too onerous to be combined with his own, and it was contemplated at that period to combine the offices of Secretary and Auditor. It was hardly necessary to explain the need for, or duties of, the Provincial Solicitor. Then an Audit was absolutely necessary. He, himself, as Sub-treasurer for this district had felt the advantage of the vigilance of the Audit office at Wellington ; it had prevented, or corrected, many a mistake ; and, though he had been at war with it on account or the vexatious nature of some of the queries to which it requir-

ed replies before passing the accounts, he was convinced it had acted, on the whole, as a useful check on himThe Clause was passed. On clause 6, Mr. Hamilton again explained. It provides that the Superintendent shall not dismiss any officer without the consent of his Executive Council. This would provide against the exercise of violent party feelings by any Superintendent. There were no such feelings now; but a new Superintendent might, on taking office, out of mere resentment, dismiss public officers who had voted against his election : and thus produce serious injury by the removal perhaps of excellent officers. It was for the security of the Province, that party feeling should not interfere with the security of tenure of office. Therefore the Executive Council must be consulted before any dismissal. Of course, a new Superintendent could call a new Executive Council ; but, without a good cause for dismissing the old public officers, he would be a bold man indeed who would incur odium by calling a new Executive Council for that purpose. Mr. Packer said the honorable gentleman's speech only confirmed him in the view that some better check on the Superintendent was wanted. Of course the prese.it Superintendent would not" turn out the present immaculate Executive Officers (great laughter), but we ought to legislate at once for the time when such a thing might happen. How could the lion, member tell how soon violent political feeling of that kind might arise ? It might occur a week hence, for all he knew. Well, there were to be these four officers, and salaries would be wanted for them all ('• no, no"), —well, that would be seen when the estimates came on. The clause was then passed. Clauses 7, and 8, providing for an unchecked control by the Superintendent over the subordinate appointments, and for the due publication of the regulations for the conduct of the public offices, were also passed. The House resumed, and the Bill was reported. The Provincial Revenue Bill was read a second time. Mr. Taxcred laid on the table the Returns relating to the Post Office called for by Mr. Hall. The Council adjourned soon after 7 p.m. WEDNESDAY, Oct. 26. The Council met at 11 a. in. Proceedings oi- Col. Campbell at Akaroa. Mr. Rhodes presented a petition from Thomas Adams, complaining of the vexatious proceedings of Commissioner Campbell, in threatening to eject him from land which he had bought from Mr. D'Oyley, a purchaser from the Canterbuiv Association. The Petition, and appended documents, consisting of correspondence between the petitioner, the Commissioner, and the Civil Secretary at Wellington, were read by the Clerk; the reading occupying neatly three-quarters of an hour. Great merriment was excited amongst members by some passages, in which the petitioner passes suddenly from a painful picture of the real evils inflicted on him to a hunn.rous criticism of the Commissioner's intelligence and capacity for his office. SUPREME COURT. Mr. Taxcred rose to move that the Council go into Committee to consider the resolutions of which he bad given notice, and the correspondence relating to which had been some weeks on the table. They had two objects: first, to provide against an unfair charge of the expenses of the Court on the Provincial Revenue ; secondly, to endeavour to obtain the establishment of a Court of Quarter Sessions, with a greater jurisdiction, in both civil and criminal matters, than the Resident Magistrate's Court. As to the expenses, first, the Civil Secretary had written to say that the local officers of the Supreme Court were to be paid out of the Provincial revenue, but were to correspond with the Supreme Court at Wellington, so that we should pay servants whom they ordered. Secondly, the fees were to be paid, after the 30lh September last, into the Provincial treasury : but the Crown Prosecutor was to be paid out of the Provincial Revenue, thus probably swallowing up those fees, if not more. Then the allowance to witnesses was to be paid out 'of the Provincial Revenue. Then the trai veiling expenses of the Judge were to he paid by the Province to which be goes ; a liir.niI lest injustice, as Wellington, where he lives,

would pay nothing at all towards his travelling expenses. Again, the Province was to pay for his accommodation while here: so that he would live on his salary of £800 a year while at Wellington, and save part of it at our sole expense when here. Moreover, it was directed that a dinner should be given to the Judge on his visit, and certain gentlemen were to be invited to to the dinner ; for which the Province was to pay. The Superintendent had written a remonstrance against the unfairness of these charges, as compared with those borne by Wellington, which would avoid them because the Judge happened to live there. It seemed advantageous that the Council should, if willing, support the request of the Superintendent by an' address to the Governor, begging that this province may be placed on an equal footing with the others. Under the second head, it was proposed to address the Governor, asking him to establish a Court of Quarter Sessions, which he might at once do by proclaiming the Sessions of the Peace Ordinance, sess. 7, No. 20, to be in force in this Province. Such a Court would have power to try all offences,except treason, murder, capital felony, or offences punishable with transportation for life. This would often be of great convenience, by enabling a gaol delivery to be made in the intervals between the sittings of the Supreme Court. It was now more than a year since the Supreme Court had sate here : and although notice had been received that it was to sit here about six months ago, there appeared no likelihood of its coming yet. This was a great hardship to prisoners, especially innocent persons, who were kept in jail longer than was necessary. Under this Ordinance, the Chairman was to be a Justice of the Peace having a competent knowledge of the law, appointed by the Governnor. It was not quite certain that the Superintendent had not the power, under a possible construction of the " empowering" and •'interpretation" ordinances, of proclaiming the Court, but at any rate, it was proposed to go at once to the Governor, and ask him to do so. It was also proposed to ask for an extension of jurisdiction, up to the value of £500, in civil cases to a local Court. At present, the only local civil court had no jurisdiction between Europeans beyond £20 ; and in cases involving amounts of £100 or £200, the expense and difficulty of proceeding in the Supreme Court was found to be very great. The Council then went into Committee on the Resolutions, Mr. Boweii in the Chair. On Resolution 1, " that none of the expenses of the Supreme Court ought to be paid out of the Provincial revenue," Mr. Dampier suggested that it should be none but fair and reasonable expenses. If this was left entirely to the General Government, it would be out of the Provincial control, and we might be saddled with the same expenses without knowing anything about it. Mr. Tanciibd said that if these expenses were defrayed out of the General revenue, all Provinces would pay alike. Ah it was now, Wellington went free of most of them. Mr. Dampier insisted that what we want is to pay our fair proportion, by whatever authority it may be appropriated. But we could not say that it should not be paid out of the Provincial revenue. Mr. Hall doubted whether we might not, by adopting these resolutions, place ourselves in a more disadvantageous position than now. If we had these new Courts established, we should have the expense of them ; the Supreme Court would have little or nothing to do here, and perhaps, as now, would not come at all. Other Settlements, if such minor Courts were not established there, would have the Supreme Court travelling to them, and we should pay our share, in the General revenue, towards expenses from which we derived no benefit (hear.) Mr. Packer concurred in this view. A conversation ensued, in which Mr. Dampier, Mr. Taucrcd, and Captain Simeon took part. Mr. Halt, suggested that more time should be given for ihe consideration of this question. We might, perhaps, place ourselves in a worse position by the establishment of minor Courts, lie would move the adjournment of the debate till to morrow. Mr. Packer said that every step in this Council shewed the absolute necessity of petitioning r„ r _\__ L . u ,iv meeting of the two Houses of Genet a! Assembly (loud cries of hear.) A •great ninny Addresses to the Governor were proposed, and he should like to see another one to that elfv-ct brought forward (hear, hear.)

_ Mr. Tancred said it would be very inconvenient to adjourn this debate till to-morrow, or Friday, as there was a great press of important business on both those days. He did not clearly understand the objections to the Resolutions; but he allowed that the notice bad been short, and had no objection to defer their further consideration. The House then resumed, and the Chairman reported progress. Mr. Tancred, in the absence of Mr. Hamilton, asked leave to postpone the motions given notice of for to-day, for going into Committee on the Limitation of Patronage and Appropriation Bills. A new clause had been found to be necessary in the former measure, which was under careful preparation, and would be proposed in Committee to-morrow. With regard the Appropriation Bill, serious difficulties had occurred. The measure touched on some very delicate,points of law; and the Government had therefore determined to defer its introduction until the arrival of their legal adviser, before whom it would be laid (bear, hear.) The Council adjourned at 1 p.m. THURSDAY, 27th October. The Council met at 4 p.m. limitation of patronage bill. This Bill was considered in Committee, Mr. Bowen in the Chair. Clause I was agreed to, providing that the Superintendent shall not appoint to any public office with emolument or salary attached, any member of the Provincial Council who shall not first have resigned his seat. On clause 2, enacting a similar provision with regard to contracts or agreements involving payments from the public revenue, Mr. Packer pointed out the difficulty which would arise from forbidding contracts for small articles necessary for the public service, with members of the Council who might be in business. Mr. Hall suggested that, perhaps, contracts to hire the Town Reserves or Pasturage runs ought to be provided for. Mr. Rhodes thought sufficient precaution would be observed, if an exception were made in favour of a contractor making the lowest tender. Mr. Hamilton acknowledged that this difficulty had been unforeseen ; and proposed a postponement of the further consideration of the clause. Captain Simeon said that, if the clause stood as read, there would be a difficulty in getting the commercial and middle classes represented in this Council; or else it would lead to a great number of unnecessary and troublesome reelections. But he must deprecate the postponement of business of which due notice had been given (hear.) Members giving notice of measures, and taking charge of them, should come prepared to have them discussed, and either carry them through or assent to proposed amendments (hear.) Mr. Bealey approved of the clause as it stood. Members of this Council should be prepared to make a sacrifice of any little profit they might glean from the public revenue. It was a wholesome provision against that bribery by a Superintendent which might take place by means of granting an advantageous contract. ''Mr. Tancred suggested that an exception might be made in favour of contracts within some small sum. After a pause, Mr. Hamilton moved an amendment in the clause, making exception in favour of contracts for amounts within twenty pounds. .The clause so amended was adopted. On clause 3, excepting shareholders, but not Managing Directors, of a Company, from the operation of the preceding clause, Mr. Hall moved the omission of the words relating to Managing Directors from the clause. In so small a settlement, the eye of the public would be the best security against any unfair transactions such as it was attempted to guard against. This provision against Managing Directors would be a great practical inconvenience. Many members of this Council, likely to be useful on the managing Committees of Conipanics formed for various purposes, would be incapacitated from doing so. Mr. Rhodes seconded the amendment. Mr. Tancued supported the clause as it stood. He should be sorry to -see the actingmanagers of any Companj', being also in this Council, enter into contracts with Government. Mr. Packer dwelt on the difficulty of pre-

eluding members of this Council from taking a leading part in the many active commercial pursuits of a community small in numbers. Mr. Hamilton said the honorable member for Christchurch Country (Mr. Hall) seemed to imply that the twelve men in that Council were the only persons in the settlement fit to transact business out of doors. Suppose a coal company was formed, and six of its managing Directors were in that Council. They might apply to the Government for a subsidy in aid of their enterprise; and if they obtained it by means of their influence in the Council, other companies would feel themselves aggrieved. Mr. Hall said this was, surely, an extreme case. It was outrageously improbable and absurd. They were to legislate only for practical probabilities. As to the twelve members of Council being the only persons in the settlement fit to manage the affairs of Companies, without going the length of that assertion, he must observe, that the very fact of their being sent there by the constituencies did imply that they were thought (it men for public business, and therefore not unfit to be on the managing Committees of Companies. As to this Bill, he thought a coach and six might be driven through some of its clauses. Mr. Hamilton said that, as the honourable member thought a coach and six could be driven through the Bill, the responsibility lay on him of proposing such amendments as would form a fence capable of stopping it. Mr. Hall said that the responsibility rests on those who bring forward a measure. He had made a suggestion for improvement; and if the honorable member would not adopt it, the responsibility would lie with him. He had not said all the clauses were faulty; but he certainly did think anything might be driven through some of them. He had pointed out one of the loop-holes which wanted stopping ; he would persist in his amendment. Mr. Bealey would support the amendment. Shareholders had quite as strong an interest as Managing Directors; and if one was excepted, the other ought too. Mr. Tancbeb thought the amendment overthrew the whole principle of the Bill. Any one might call himself a shareholder, and thus evade the enactment. An interpellation clause might be added, to explain what was meant by a managing director. The Bill was binding on the Superintendent, not on the members: it would be for him to exercise his discretion as to who was, and who was not, a managing director. The amendment was put, and carried; 6 voting for it, and 2 against it. Mr. Hamilton proposed to expunge the last clause, interpreting " Superintendent" to mean any officer lawfully administering that office. An empowering Ordinance was about to be introduced, making such a provision apply to all Ordinances passed by the Council. Mr. Bbalet pointed out the danger which might arise from the enactment of this clause in the meanwhile. * Mr. Hall concurred in the objection. Mr. Hamilton said the Empowering Ordinance was now drafting, and would be speedily brought in. Mr. Hall repeated that no liarm could arise from the retention of the clause, while much might possibly arise from expunging it. On a division, 4 voted for expunging, and 4 for retaining the clause. The Chairman gave his casting vote in favor of retaining the Clause. The House then resumed, and the Bill was eported. PROVINCIAL REVENUE BILL. This Bill was passed through Committee, Mr. Bowen in the Chair, with some technical amendment by Captain Simkon. The House resumed, and the Sheep and Cattle Branding Bill was read a first time, on the motion of Mr. Hall. After some other notices of motion, The Council adjourned at half-past six. FRIDAY, 28th October. The Council met at 11 o'clock. Mr. Tancrud moved— That the Council resolve itself into a Committe of the whole House to consider that part of the opening address of His Honor the Superintendent relating to education. The House went into Committee, Mr. Bowen in the Chair. Mr. Takcrkd moved, and Captain Simeon seconded the following resolutions: —

1. That this Council is of opinion that some general plan for the education of the people ought to be adopted by the Government of the Province. 2. That in the event of other means no being available, it is expedient to raise the ne cessaiy funds for such education by means of a special rate to be levied for that purpose. A discussion of considerable length ensued, for which we have no space. The second resolution was warmly debated, it being deemed by several members that direct taxation would be highly distasteful, and that the Council ought not to attempt to tax the people until their wishes and opinions on the subject were better known. The resolutions were ultimately carried. TUESDAY, 1 st November. The Speaker took the Chair at 4 o'clock. The Council received His Honor the Superintendent, pursuant to resolution of Friday last. His Honor delivered the following address: Gentlemen of the Council, When I had the honor to address you upon the occasion of opening this Council, I stated to you that certain financial arrangements had been made by His Excellency the Governor, pending any laws which might be made on that subject by the General Assembly. You have subsequently been made fully acquainted with the nature of those arrangements by the papers which have been laid on your table ; the main feature being that one third of the customs' duties is directed to be paid to the General Government, and two-thirds to be placed at the disposal of the Province. As soon, however, as it became the duty of the Provincial Government to frame a bill to be laid before you for the purpose of appropriating the Revenue thus placed at your disposal, a question presented itself as to the legal authority under which such appropriation could be made: and difficulties have arisen on this matter, which I have thought it right, by the advice of the acting Executive Council, to lay fully before you. The sixty-sixth clause of the Constitution Act contains the special provision under which it was the intention of Parliament that the Revenue of New Zealand should be appropriated. Under that clause the whole of the Revenue, after deducting certain charges specified in other parts of the Act, is subject to be appropriated by the General Assembly : and the portion not so appropriated is to be divided amongst the several Provinces in the proportion in which the whole Revenue has been contributed by each. So far, then, as this provision applies to the present question, it would appear doubtful whether the appropriation of any part of the Public Revenue, by the Provincial Councils, is a lawful proceeding, until the General Assembly shall have previously determined what share it will require for purposes of General Government. There are several objects to which the General Assembly might legitimately wish to appropriate public funds ; for example, to the establishment of steam navigation between the various settlements. But if, prior to the meeting of the General Assembly, all the Revenue of the colony shall have been disposed of by the Executive of the General Government, and by the Provincial Legislatures; either the General Assembly must submit to forego the constitutional right bestowed upon it by the British Parliament of having the first claim to dispose of the Public Revenue, or else the appropriation made by the Provincial Councils must be liable" to be overthrown, and the arrangements made for carrying on the Provincial Governments altered. It appears indeed from the 54th clause of the Constitution Act, that the General Assembly is prohibited from making any appropriation of public money, except upon objects for which His Excellency shall have been pleased to recommend that provision shall be made ; and it may be argued that, as the General Assembly might be thus debarred from making any appropriation of Revenue, except for the purposes determined by His Excellency in the instructions on your table, the portion allotted to each Province may be lawfully disposed of by the Provincial Council, without encroaching upon the constitutional privileges of the General Assembly. But the power thus vested in the Executive to limit the appropriation of Revenue by the Legislature cannot be interpreted to legalise the appropriation of that Revenue without the consent of the Legislature.

The fifty-fourth clause of the Constitution Act is founded upon a recognised principle of the English Constitution ; for the House of Commons has imposed upon itself a similar restraint. Since the year A. D. 1713, it has been a Standing Order of the House, " that they will receive no petition for any sum of money relatiii"- to the public service, but what is recommended by the Crown." But it has never been for a moment imagined that this restraint could be interpreted into a claim on the part of the Crown to appropriate the public Revenue without the consent of Parliament. Nor must it be forgotten that although the Governor may absolutely debar the Houses of the General Assembly from voting money for other purposes than such as he recommends, and from interfering with the appropriation of sums reserved by the •Constitutional Law: yet his Excellency is not free from the indirect control of the Legislature even in these matters. Heisboundby the Constitution Act to lay full accounts of the expenditure of these reserved funds before them, nor can he escape from the indirect influence which flows fmm the opinion of a popular assembly expiessing itself by resolutions, by petitions, by remonstrances. If the appropriation of the' Revenue by the Executive Government were lawful without the consent of the Legislature, the allotment of two-thirds of the Customs' duties to the Provinces, which has been arbitrarily made to-day, might be as arbitrarily un-made to-morrow; and the same authority which has withheld a portion of the public Revenue from your disposal might wihhold the remainder, and the constitutional privileges granted to you by the imperial Parliament would be exercised by you as a matter of sufferance, not of right. The Constitution Act would he a dead letter. I do not imply that His Excellency has claimed such a power. Whetherit has been exercised in the arrangements which have been made for distributing the Revenue, I shall inquire presently. But the intention appears to have been only to make such Revenues payable to the General Government, as are now by law appropriated to certain purposes, and to leave the remainder at the disposal of the Provincial Legislatures. But it must remain a doubtful question whether the consent.oi the General Assembly is not necessary to make this arrangement valid, if only for the purpose of placing its sanction upon the reservations l>y the Government us being according to law. it will he therefore for the Provincial Legislatures to determine whether they will accept of the responsibility imposed on them, knowing as they do, that it is acquired at the expense of the Constitutional privileges of the General Assembly. Gentlemen, such would be the question for' your consideration if your power to dispose of Revenue were defined solely by the sixty-sixth claiiM- of the Constitution Act. But another I difficulty has arisen which gives a different aspect to the question. All the Revenues contemplated in the Constituiion Act are Revenues raised in virtue of some act of the General Assembly. No other Reteuue is spoken of throughout. Even the Civ.l List is reserved out of Revenue to be so raiseo, and cannot be lawfully charged upon any odiev funds. Nor can I consider' this language so carefully adhered to throughout the Act to be ihe result of mere inadveriance. On the contrary, it would seem to mark the clear inU'iit'ioii oi tiie British Parliament that all consihutional action should commence with anri flow 'from the General Asssembly of the coiony. And whatever financial embarrassment* result from this strict interpretation of tbo '.aw, they might have been avoided had that nieeimu of the General Assembly taken place, which was evidently contemplated by the Act as ti.e commencement of all constitutional action in die c.iiouv. As I read the Constitutional Act, the special powers granted thereby to the General Assembly aim to the Piovinciai Councils to expend Her M;g-siy's Revenue, as well as the power sjiveu to ir.s Kxcelieney to reserve a'certain part of thai Revenue hy way of Civil List, are applicable solely to Revenue raised in virtue of some act of the Gem-rid Assembly, and cannot be lawfully applied to any other. But the Revenues with which you are called on to deal aie not so raised. Th'ev are Revenues rai-ed under old laws still in force because unrepealed. Aud to appropriate such Revenues tiie O'dtii clause of the Constitution Act <>ives

no special power. You must therefore seek elsewhere for some authority to appropriate the existing public funds. Now it is indisputable that the appropriation of the public funds must be by law. And the question for you to consider is—in whom does the power to make such laws vest at the present moment ? Had the General Assembly met it would no doubt have passed a declaratory Act setting the stamp of its authority upon all the Revenue raised in the colony, and would thereby have brought the Revenue within the meaning of the Constitution Act: but as circumstances are at present, the whole of the public Revenues appear to be subjected to be appropriated without limit or reservation, by any authority competent to make laws for the colony. But the General Assembly not having met, the Provincial Councils are the only powers iv action competent to make such laws. And as the appropriation of Revenue is not one of the subjects interdicted by the 19th clause of the Constitution Act, the powers of the Provincial Councils appear to me to be plenary jin this behalf. Hence it would follow that if the Superintendents and Provincial Councils made laws not disallowed by His Excellency, appropriating the whole Revenue of the respective Provinces, the Executive would be compelled to put such laws in force. Gentlemen, I have proposed two distinct points for your consideration. First, whether, supposing the 66th clause of the Constitution Act could by any interpretation be taken to apply to the present state of affairs, yon would consider it lawful, or if technically lawful, whether you would consider it consistent with your own dignity, or with your respect for the manifest intention of the British Parliament, to appropriate Revenues placed at your disposal by any authority other than an act of the General Assembly. And, secondly, whether, supposing the existing Revenue to be wholly beyond the operation of the Constitution Act, you would feel it your duty, acting under the general authority given you to make all laws for the good of the Province, to pass an Ordinance appropriating the whole Revenue raised in the Province without any reservation or deduction, to such services as you may think proper. When you have come to some determination on these two questions, a further point will yet remain for your consideration. I mean whether, supposing His Excellency to have been justified by law in appropriating certain portions of the Revenue without the consent of the General Assscnibly, the particular appropriation made is consistent with law and with justice. I have stated that the intention of the General Government appears to be to reserve only such funds as are now by law appropriated to certain objcts specified in the letter from the Civil Secretary of the Bth of August, which is on your table. The first of those sums is the Civil List. I have already given reasons for doubting whether this appropriation is according to law. The law by which the old Civil List was reserved*has lapsed. The law by which the new Civil List is imposed is inoperative, because the Revenue does not exist out of which that Civil List was to he raised. There seems therefore to be no lawful authority at present for reserving any sum whatever by way of Civil List. The second sum which His Excellency has reserved is a sum to meet the Government Debentures, outstanding under the Debentures Security Ordinance, Session viii., No. 11. There can be no doubt but that some payment may be lawfully demanded from the Province on this account. But the manner in which the demand is made does not appear to me to be admissible. In the* first place the law provides that the surplus revenue of the colony may from lime to time be applied to redeem the debt. Itis therefore clearly incumbent on the General Government to furnish accounts of the state of the public debt, before taking the funds to meet the interest, because there would otherwise be no security against sums being taken for the payment of interest on a debt tiie principal of which might have been in part discharged. Again it is proposed to distribute the charge upon the Provinces in proportion to the amount of* Revenue raised in each : whereas the Ordinance expressly slates that the burden shall be divided amongst the several Provinces in equal shares. No doubt the provision of this Ordinance is a most unfair one, but it is neverthe-

less law, and must be respected as such until altered. The next sum reserved by His Excellency is to meet the expense of" the Savings' Bank, but the 23rd clause of the Ordinance under which such Savings' Banks are established, enacts, that the expenses shall be charged on the General Revenue or on the Revenue of the Province in which the Savings' Bank is situated. It appears therefore if not illegal yet most unjust, that one Province should be called upon to contribute to the maintenance of an institution whose benefits are felt solely by the Province in which it is situated. And as the law does not absolutely impose this charge on the General Revenues, but leaves the option of fixing it in the Revenue of the Province which enjoys the benefit, I cannot help thinking that the General Government ought to have adopted the latter alternative. For the same reason it may be said that the next charge made on our Revenues is an unjust one—that for expenses under the Education Ordinance. No school has been established in this Province under the provisions of that Ordinance. If we adopt the principle of State assistance to schools, we shall probably find it necessary to repeal the Education Ordinance altogether, and therefore the authority under which this charge is made. For all these reasons therefore, Gentlemen, it seems to me that the financial arrangements made by the General Government are open to grave objections, and ought to become a matter of careful consideration to the Legislature of the Colony, and that you will pause before you give the weight of your sanction either to the arrangements themselves, or to the assumption of authority by which they have been made. Gentlemen, until the legal difficulties which I have placed before you shall be removed, it is not the intention of the Provincial Government to propose to you any Bill for the appropriation of* the Revenues: certain resolutions will be submitted for your discussion, and you will be asked to give a provisional sanction to the expenditure of such funds as may be necessary for carrying out the public service of the Province until you may be in a position to appropriate the Revenue by law. It is a matter of deep regret to myself, as I am sure it will be to you, that at so early a period in the exercise of the privileges conferred upon us, anything should have occurred to disturb that harmony of action which it is so essential to maintain between the various branches and estates of the Government of the Colony. But lam fully persuaded that now, a* upon_all similar occasions, we shall find our safest and wisest course in a rigid adherence to the strict letter and spirit of the Constitutional law, whereby we shall give the best assurance of our loyalty, and the best evidence of our gratitude to the Crown and Parliament of England for the privilege which it has been their wisdom to bestow. Mr. Tancred moved that the address do lie on the table. Seconded by Mr. Packer, and carried. SITPKEME COURT. The House then went into Committee, Mr. Bowen in the Chair. Mr. Tancred moved that the resolutions referring to the Supreme Court, of which he had given notice the previous Wednesday, be adopted. Seconded by Captain Simeon, and carried without any discussion. The Council resumed and the Speaker took the Chair. EMPOWERING ORniNANCE. Mr. Tancrkd moved for leave to bring in a Bill to be called an Empowering Ordinance to enable the Superintendent to [perform certain Acts which by law the Governor alone can do. Leave granted. The Speaker, not seeing the member for the Christehurch Country, Mr, Hall, in his place, announced that the Bill, of which that gentleman bad charge, the " Sheep and Cattle Branding Bill," and which was on the notices of the day, was consequently dropped. Mr. Tancrkd gave notice that on Thursday he would move the following resolutions relating to the address of His Honor the Superintendent :— That this Council, having taken into their consideration the speech delivered by his Honor the Superintendent, on the Ist of November, and the several mutters^rekiti ng thereto, resolve as follows : 1. That in the opinion of this Council all appropriation of the Revenue of the colony prior to the meeting of the General Assembly is

a violation of the spirit and intent of the Constitution Act. , 2. That until a meeting of the General Assembly shall have taken place, or until further information is laid before them, the Council will \ abstain from passing any law for the appropriation of the public Revenues. 3. That considering the extreme inconvenience which would be occasioned to the public service from the discontinuance of the functions of the Local Government, this Council will (so far as it may hereafter be within its power lawfully lo appropriate the public Revenues of the Province) guarantee the expenditure of such Revenue according to estimates lo be approved of by the Council. 4. That an address he presented to His Ex- , sellency the Governov, praying His Excellency r t<> acquaint this Council when the Genera. Assembly are about to be called together, in order that the Council may be guided as to the proper course to be pursued in the matter referred to in the speech of His Honor. The House adjourned at 5 o'clock, till Thursday. THURSDAY, Nov. 3. The Council met at 4 p. m. Mr. Tancked begged leave to postpone the consideration of the resolutions intended to be moved in answer to His Honor's Address. Mr. Hall gave notice that he would move the 2nd reading of the Cattle Branding Bill on Tuesday ; and the re-committal of the Scab Obdinance, and the consideration of the present state of the postal communication, on Wednesday. Mr. Tancked moved for the re-committal of the Government Gazette Bill, and the Government Executive Bill ; and gave notice that he should move for leave to introduce a Bill for establishing a Public Seal, .and a bill for the establishment of a Recokd Office. Mr. Hamilton gave notice that he would move the third reading of the Provincial Revenue Ordinance, and the Limitation of Patronage Bill on Tuesday. The House then adjourned till Tuesday, at 4.