LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEMONSTRATION.

Lyttelton Times, Volume I, Issue 32, 16 August 1851, Page 6

LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEMONSTRATION.

A public meeting was held at the Mitre Hotel, on Thursday last, to take into consideration the offer of his Excellency the Governor-in-Chief to erect Canterbury into a separate province, should it appear consistent with the wellascertained wishes of the settlers.

It was moved by Mr. Townsend, seconded by Mr.Longden, that Mr. Godley be requested to take the chair. Carried by acclamation. The Letter of His Excellency containing the proposition referred to, having been read to the meeting,

The Chairman said,-—lt is my duty to open this important meeting, important as to its character, because it is the first political demonstration in this colony, and important as to its end, because it will probably determine the condition under which you will, for many years to come, exercise your political privileges ; and I will do so by stating the objects which its conveners have had in view, and the question on which it will have to decide this day. But first, it will naturally be expected that I should take some notice of the circumstances under which Sir George Grey wrote the letter which has just been read, and of the manner in which he introduced the subject to the Legislative Council of the colony. About two months ago I addressed a letter to* his Excellency, in which I brought under his consideration'the understanding which had been conveyed by the Colouial Secretary to those by whom this settlement was colonized, that as soon as possible if liOAvaforeseen circumstances should intervene, it should be formed into a separate province. In that communication I did not raise, (as it was not my business to raise,) any question with respect to the boundaries of the Province which might be constituted in pursuance of Lord Grey's implied promise. I left it, as indeed I conld not help doing, to the same authority which has the power of conferring a Provincial constitution, to declare how far its jurisdiction should extend. With respect to our land-regula-tions, if I had asked, or if the Canterbury settlers were now to ask Sir George Grey (as he implies the possibility of their doing) to extend those regulations to other districts, we should be guilty, as he must know, of a gross absurdity, inasmuch as he has no more power to comply with such a request, than he has to extend our land-regulations to China. No such proposal, therefore, was made, or could have been made by me, and his Excellency's allusion to it, hypothetieally, in his reply, is entirely uncalled for and irrelevant.

Not content, however, with intimating to me his objections to comply with a request winch had never been made, Sir George Grey thought proper in his place in the Council, to found, nominally on the official letter which I have mentioned, but really, as it appeared afterwards, upon a private communication, " so far as he remembered it " made to him by me, and upon "rumours which bad reached him from other sources" of a desire

on the part of the Canterbury settlers to extend their block ; to found, I say, upon these " remembrances," and " rumours," an elaborate and unmeasured attack upon the Canterbury Association, although the Canterbury Association at least was upon his own shewing altogether guiltless of the offence which formed the text of his remarks.

Now lam not about to be betrayed by any provocation, however strong, into an unseemly personal controversy with the representative of the queen, I am not going to bandy reproaches and insinuations with him; I will not attempt to prove that the members of the Canterbury Association are as good friends of the church, and as well acquainted with the principles of colonization as he is; still less will I follow him into a disquisition on the good or bad effects of religious endowments ; but it would not be right forme, holding the position which I do, to pass without notice so violent an attack on the body which I represent, coming from so high a quarter; I will therefore, putting aside all personalities, make a few very brief, and I trust, inoffensive remarks on the essential matters treated of in Sir George Grey's speech (hear, hear). Sir George objects, as it appears, to colonizing associations generally, and to the Canterbury Association particularly, to the former because they interfere with the colonizing functions of the local government, and to the latter because it violates the liberty of conscience, by applying a portion of its land fund to the purposes of the Church of England. I will consider both these points. I must begin by saying that I entirely agree with Sir George Grey in his disapproval of colonizing Associations, whether they be composed of land- speculators or of amateurs. I believe that their existence and functions ire altogether repugnant to sound theory, and almost necessarily productive of great practical evils. Yet I have been an active promoter of the Canterbury Association, and I now stand here to defend it, on this ground alone, that it is better than the government (hear). If we had a government able and willing to make its waste territory available for British immigration, and to give facilities to intending colonists for managing their own affairs, and colonizing on their own principles from the first, I should be prepared to admit that an amateur Association like ours, was an intruder. But as it is, I hare no hesitation in asserting that our mission is perfectly legitimate and excedingly beneficial (cheers). It must have been really rather difficult for Sir George Grey's audience to keep their countenances while he denounced the Canterbury Association as an obstacle to the legitimate colonization of this district by the subjects of Her Majesty—in other words as keeping people out of Canterbury. If any one else but the Governor had used such language I should really suppose that it had been used in irony (hear, hear). Why, what is the fact ? Most of those whom I address know, and all of them ought to know, that for seven years, that is, from 1839 to 1846, the Government, of which Sir George Grey is the representative, possessed almost unlimited powers and- opportunities for colonizing these Islands. I say almost unlimited, for the New Zealand Company's interference was confined to the comparatively small districts of Wellington, Nelson, and New Plymouth, and the native inhabitants, in this island especially, would have been only too happy to dispose of their rights over the waste territory at a nominal price. For seven years then, Sir George Grey and his predecessors have had nearly the whole of New Zealand, for twelve years about half of it, under their control and in their hands. They have had every conceivable advantage and facility at their command; funds, troops, steamers, civil administrations, surveyors. They have spent more money in one year than we are likely to have at our disposal in five—and what have they done ? I will tell you. By means of an extravagant expenditure they have founded one settlement, or rather they have founded one seaport and garrison town which is not a settlement, to which I do not believe five hundred actual settlers have ever gone. That is al), literally all, that the Government of New Zealand has done for colonization. And yet Sir George Grey gravely complains that the Canterbury Association are keeping her Majesty's subjects from colonizing this district under the auspices of the Government*'; he taunts us, in fact, with being an obstacle to colonization. Why, if it were not for the Canterbury Association, this district would be a wilderness still, as it was for so many years before we came. We' discovered it, we surveyed it, we made it available for settlement, we made known its existence and capabilities in England and Australia; we organized and administered the system of operations by which this desert has been peopled; and after having done all this, at vast labour, and with no small outlay, it is rather too bad to be told by those who have been doing nothing all the time that we are keeping for our own purposes a great and fertile district out of the hands of her Majesty's subjects— I say again, if we had not come here, this great and fertile district would still be, as other great and fertile districts, over which Sir George Grey's jurisdiction is unlimited, still are, —unsurveyed, untenanted, almost unknown—when therefore the re-

presentatives of Government shall have performed some part, however trifling, of their coloirfzino- ( n ltv it will be time enough for them to attack others lor stepping in to supply their deficiencies. We may colonize badly, but they do not colonize at all. We have done more for colonization in a month than they have done in twelve years ; aye and more as every man in New Zealand well knows, than they are likely to do in twelve years to come (cheers). " And this leads me to a consideration of what Sir George Grey has said of our imposing onerous and $ prohibitive conditions on the acquisition of land by ( the working classes of this settlement. Why, the ] working-classes of this settlement would not be in existence if it were not for the Canterbury Associa- ' tion. What is the use of telling them that they would have got land on easier terms if it had not1 *" been for us ? Why, if they had never been brought here, they could not have got land at all. Neither they, nor anyone else got land here, I am inclined to think, while it was the demesne of the Crownonerous and prohibitive as our conditions may be, more land has been bought under them by working men within the last six months, than would have been bought by them or any similar class of equal numbers in ten years in England. That is the point I wish to insist upon. Our system may be a bad one, I know it is a defective and imperfect one; but it has brought the people whom I see around me here, and placed before them prospects which they could never have had at home ; difficulties, hardships, perhaps distresses, they may suffer in this country, and they may be often disposed to lay these at the door of the Association, but I am not afraid of saying here before them all, that I accept on the part of the Association the responsibility for their difficulties, if they will promise to give us the credit for their ultimate success. They may object, sometimes with, sometimes without justice, to many things we do; but the ti'ue question between us and the Government as it bears upon their case is this whether on the whole their condition will not prove to have been bettered by emigration 1 If it be so, then we who have enabled them to emigrate^ deserve better at their hands than the Government, which to die end of time, would never have stirred a finger for such a purpose.

I now come to the violation of conscience theory. Sir George Grey has endeavoured to make the people of Canterbury believe that we violate conscience by applying a part of our land fund to religious and educational purposes. I trust I shall not be guilty of impropriety if I say that such an argument does not deserve serious notice. In fact, it is not argument, it is mere ad captandum declamation. There is not, I venture to say, one individual in the settlement who ever dx earned of such a grievance until it was put into his head. When a man comes to buy land, as when he comes to buy any other article, the only thing he troubles his head about is whether he gets value his money. What use the seller will make of the price, whether he will build a church with it, or get drunk with it, is a matter in which, very properly, indeed necessarily, the buyer does not consider his conscience as implicated in the slightest degree. Perhaps the value of the accusation is best tested by an argumentum ad hominum. I wonder what Sir George Grey would say to any one who refused on the plea of conscience, to pay taxes to Government, because the Colonial Chaplain is paid out of the treasury ; and that is a much stronger case, because a man cannot help paying taxes, whereas no one forces him to buy land. It would really be a waste of time to dwell upon such grievances as this. But perhaps the most original and ingenious form into which it could be put, is that of complaint on the parts of the old settlers in Canterbury, They, it seems, are the persons whom we have most deeply injured, by forming our settlement in their neighbourhood. They are martyrs, poor men, for conscience sake. I think my friend Mr. Deans is not very likely to complain that we have injured him by planting the future capital of New Zealand within two miles of his homestead. My friend Mr. Rhodes is sometimes a little inclined to grumble and complain, but I don't think even he will join Sir George Grey in voting for the relief of his conscience, by the annihilation of Lyttelton. The persecution to which we subject him may be very"'' severe, but I doubt very much whether he be not effectually consoled by the market which we provide for his wethers (laughter and cheers, in which Mr. Rhodes joined).

In considering the objections against the endowments of churches and schools, we should never forget this most material fact, that it lias created the very fund out of which it is paid. If it were not for this provision, the Canterbury Association would not exist, and without the Canterbury Association neither settlement nor land-fund would exist at this moment in the plains of Port Cooper. I purposely abstain from arguing for the present, as I might easily do, this question on the higher ground that our scheme of colonization is sound and right, and that in providing endowments for religion and education, out of a fund voluntarily, contributed, we are right; because this"i£not the proper place for discussing such subjects as these, and because I know that of course there may be a

legitimate difference of opinion about them. I have therefore preferred to take the lower, but more obvious ground, that by means of our plan this district has been colonized with almost unprecedented rapidity and success, and that -without our plan it would not be colonized at all, and I have a right to say, that such being the case, Sir George Grey should rather address himself to shew the superiority of his system over ours, by turning to account his J^own great opportunities of colonisation, than by and discrediting the efforts of those I whom he cannot rival.—l will conclude my obser- / vations on the subject of the Canterbury Associajition, by saying that in my opinion its mission will have been accomplished when the settlement shall kave been founded, and when its local government shall have been constituted. I say that as soon as the people of this country shall be placed in a position to govern themselves, to choose their own officers, to make their own laws, and to administer their own. revenues, I for one hold that all our powers and functions ought to cease. There is no doubt that it improperly interferes with the powers and functions of the local government. Nothing can be more anomalous than that your land-fund should be administered by the representative of a distant and irresponsible body called the Canterbury Association. All I say is that nothing would be gained by our tranferring it to the representative of another distant and irresponsible authority called the Colonial office. I trust 1 shall not be misunderstood if I maintain that, putting of course a comparison of personal'merits out of the question, the Association's agent, living among you, and having no public interests to look after but yours, is more likely to look after them well, than the Governor, who is, comparatively speaking, a stranger to you, and who has a thousand affairs more pressing upon him than yours, to divert his attention. Until, therefore, there shall be a local government entitled to the confidence of the people established here, the Canterbury Association is bound to retain the powers of which it is trustee. When such a government shall be constituted, it is equally bound, and I will say, virtually pledged to surrender them. I assure you that my conviction of this forms one of the strongest motives which urges me to take a part in the movement which we are originating to-day. Those who wish, as I wish, that the anomalous functions of the Association should cease, so far as is possible consistently with the conditions on which their enterprise was undertaken, are bound to agitate for a local and responsible government.

I will now address myself directly to the practical question which this meeting has to consider this day. We are met. to declare, in compliance with the expressed wishes of the Governor of New Zealand, our opinions on the advisableness of making Canterbury a separate province. Now, I should he very sorry to exaggerate the importance of this matter. Certainly the question as to the boundaries of our municipal territory is much less important than that as to the nature and powers of its government. It is one too of what may be called "mutable and temporary importance,- for it is reasonable to suppose that in the course of no very lengthened period, whatever arrangement we may now establish of provincial jurisdiction, will be modified by necessity or convenience. As communications become more frequent and easy, and as in the progress of wealth and civilization a leisured class comes into existence able and willing to make politics a profession, and to devote their whole time to sucli pursuits, it becomes possible and desirable to abolish provincial distinctions and to centralize governmental power. The extent, therefore, to which political subdivision should be carried in any particular case is quite arbitrary ; it is a question not of principle, but of degree, and one on which I hesitate to speak with any degree of confident assurance. In deciding it, in fact, we are compelled to strike the balance between opposite inconveniences and dangers, and when I give my ovn opinion in favour of separation, I know I advocate a course which involves risk. I wish it therefore to be understood thatl advocate it only with this distinct qualification —that sepai'ation be carried out in a proper manner, tbat it be in fact, a reality, not a sham. Everything dep.ends on the composition of our Provincial and its powers. If the only result of separation be a repetition of what has occurred at Wellington ; that is, if we are to get nothing by it but the establishment of a petty court, and the appointment of a number of officials with fine names and nominal duties, while the real administration of the province is still to be carried on at the seat

of central Government, then I say emphatically, we are infinitely better without it. The Provincial "1 Government of New Munster is an expensive non)jjj entity, and I protest against the introduction of any '„ thing like it here. It is necessary to say this very distinctly, lest Sir George Grey should find in anything we do an excuse for saddling us with a costly Provincial government, and giving it, when constituted, nothing to do. But if separation he carried out with a real bona fide desire to make it work well ;in other words, if we obtain the real management of our own affairs at the lowest cost consistent with efficiency, then I think, in our existing position, the change would be very beneficial to us, aud I will

tell you the reasons why I think so. If I were asked what is the main lesson that I have learned from mj colonial experience, I should say it was the blighting and ruinous effect of distant government. I stand here, myself the agent of a distant and irresponsible governing body, to say that I think no amount of abilities, no imount of theoretical knowledge, no amount of zeal aud disinterestedness, can even approach to compensating for the enormous disadvantage of being without personal knowledge of the country governed, and without personal interest in its local affairs. It appears to me as indisputable as an axiom in Euclid that a country governed from a distance will either be jobbed and tyrannized over, or altogether neglected. Now, the Settlement of Canterbury under existing circumstances, is in the latter category; there is really and truly no government at all here at the present moment; we get on as well as we can ungoverned. And yet the circumstances of our position, are exactly those which require the greatest amount of present, active government. It is the greatest mistake to say, as I have often heard it said, that a new country does not want government. The exact converse is the truth. Jn an old country, like England for example, where long use has moulded, and fitted, and dovetailed, and oiled, as it were, every part of the machine of society, where every contingency has been provided for by a precedent, and every individual runs, as it were, on a tram-road of convention and tradition, from which he can hardly diverge, there is scarcely any need of government in the ordinary sense of the word. In England people would get on very well without any higher authority than that of the constable. But where a new society, like this, is formed under conditions in many respects unprecedented, an urgent want is felt for an ever-present, ever-living fountain of authority and law ; new institutions must be framed to meet new emergencies, and men must be taught and made to perform duties to which they have never been accustomed. Every step in the formation of a new community needs the sanction and regulation of a new law ; and requires, moreover, in the law giver, an intimate local and personal acquaintance with the details to be provided for. We want a law for the administration of our pasturages, a law for the making and repairing of our roads, lawa for the regulation of our hospitals, and schools, and cemeteries, for facilitating common drainage, for establishing ferries. -But I will not weary you with a catalogue which might be prolonged indefinitely, of subjects for local legislation. It is sufficient to draw your attention to the fact that the crude and imperfect state of our social relations, makes a present, active, government peculiarly necessary to us. And this is exactly what we cannot have without a restricted and local jurisdiction. Look at the matter practically, for this is a question which requires to be looked upon from the point of view of common daily experience. For all practical purposes we might almost as well be governed from England as from Wellington. Our interests and requirements, however important to ourselves, are not so to our governors, and we cannot get them attended to. Our letters are hardly ever answered under two or three months, and many of them are never answered at all I will illustrate my position by a somewhat trivial example, which may serve to indicate the practical inconvenience of the present system. Exactly two months ago, Mr. Gouland informed me that henceforth he could not pay any money out of the Treasury without a special written authority from the governor. Accordingly, I wrote at once to Wellington to ask for a general authority to some person or persons residing here to provide for the necessary casual expenses of government, and to that le.tter I have as yet received no answer ; so that with a very large sum lying idle in the Treasury, a considerable part of the current expenses of government, tlios c for example of the Hospital, aud the casual expences of the police, are actually obliged to be advanced by any one who can be found charitable enough to pay the money for them, and wait for repayment till the bills are sent up to Wellington and returned. Nor should we be much better off, I fear, with a central representative government as regards constant attention to our local concerns. Even supposing, which would probably not be the ease, that our own representatives could, if present, enforce such attention, it is really more than doubtful whether the men whom we should like to choose would be inclined to leave their business and live for a considerable period away from their homes. We are very busy, and not very rich just now, and what we want is a homely government, of which the members may take their share in public business without neglecting their own.

But this is not all ; our position among the settlements is altogether exceptional and peculiar, and requires exceptional and peculiar handling. The pastoral nature of onr country, the absence of natives, the existence of a landfund, the extensive immigration from England which is is going on, and above all, the presence and the influence of the Canterbury Association, all these things distinguish ns so broadly from Wellington, Nelson, and Otago, that I feel conviced that for the present we had better pursue separate paths. The laws which suit us don't suit them, and vice versa. Again, it is a natural and laudable instinct among colonizers, to desire the freest possible scope for ging effect to their peculiar tendencies, religious, political, and social. They like to try their own es-

periment; in other words to create something. And so it is with us. The people who have come out here have their own notions, no doubt, of the kind of laws and institutions that are best for them, and one reason with, them for coming out here was that they might be able to realize those notions. They only ask for liberty to try their hands. Even those who differ from us ought to be glad to give us the utmost scope for our experiments, in order that if we fail, our failure maybe the more conspicuous and tbe condemnation of our principles more complete. In any event we shall be useful to our neighbours. If we fail we shall be a warning to them, if we succeed, we shall be their model. But at any rate let as try ; let not our aspirations, and our efforts be crushed "and thwarted by swamping us in a crowd. Give us a chance, we ask nothing but that, and it is aurely not too much to ask; the right of standing or falling by our own exertions, and of turning to what we think the beit account the capabilities of our adopted country, and this we cannot do on fair termß, unless we work unimpeded and alone. Again I have heard it said that we are" too few to govern ourselves, and that our territory [is not large enough to be a province. I protest altogether against the assumption that the amount of population is in the smallest degree a test of fitness to exercise legislative powers ; it has nothing at all to do with it. Local position and peculiarities, not numbers, should determine the extent of political sub-divi-sion. I see no reason why the people conveyed by the first ship to an uninhabited country should not make laws binding on themselves the day they occupy their new home. It was so at the time when America was colonized, and I can answer for it that the principle has worked well there. The first body of emigrants to New England numbered but 120 souls, and yet from the hour of their landing they exercised absolute and complete power of self government. There were only 350 colonists in Massachusetts when the charter was transferred to the colony, Rhodelsland, Connecticut, Newhaven, had every one of them few<jr inhabitants than the town of Lyttelton when they established their municipal independence. In the middle of the 17 th century, a population of 20,000 souls in New England was divided into five separate and independent colonies, and I find the historian of the United States remarking on this municipal subdivision and the variety of laws which it produced, that they " exercised a beneficial influence on the colonists by prompting them to examine and discuss the merits of the different systems, and thus promoting a constant and animating circulation of political sentiment and opinion. It is very remarkable too that the constitutions which were then framed have scarcely been altered since, while under their shadow, those small and feeble communities have been growing into great and powerful states.

Another objection is the additional expense said to be entailed by separate Government. I really do not see why a separate government should entail any additional expense worth talking of. I do not see that we want a Lieut. Governor, or a new Judge, or any material in addition to the number of public officers, over and above what -will be demanded by the increase of population and business, if we remain a dependent settlement; what we want is a change iv the nature of their powers and responsibility. Laws made by ourselves will not require moTe officers to execute them than laws made by other people. A provincial council wil^cost us nothing except a law officer to prepare bills and the expense of building a council room; and that of a clerk or two. If we only try, we shall find that a few gentlemen can meet in a small room, and dispatch public business very efficiently without calling themselves by fine names or drawing high salaries. I assure yon, this fear of additional expense will turn out altogether unfounded, if this matter be properly managed. There are ample means at our disposal for all that we really want._^,Our

revenue is already more than 6,0001. a-year, and' no Colonial Government in the early days of British North America cost one-half of that sum. Within 1,2 months it will be doubted, and we ought to have a surplus of 9,000/. or 10,0002. a year from the Customs alone to spend upon our public -works. j

In fact, the probable existence of a surplus revenae form* a strong ground for claiming provincial separation^ Thejrar-' plus revenue of this settlement may and ought to be very large,—and if so, —if, through our industry, through th« exertions of our friends in England, and through the natural resources of our country, this settlement advance, as humanly speaking, I know it will advance, in prosperity in wealth, in population, I say it is fair and right that we the inhabitants of it should reap the fruits of its progress. But the chief reason which influences me, I fairly confess it, in wishing for a local government is one, by advancing which, I know I expose myself to be misconstrued, sneered and cavilled at, but I cannot help telling yoa ■what I know to be the truth. I want to see the people of this settlement taking an interest and a part |in politics, and thereby training themselves in the exercise of those faculties which are engendered and nurtured by freedom, and I know they will not do so unless jpolitiqs are brought to their doors. j

I am not one of those who think that the prosecution of agriculture and commerce, and the cultivation of the domestic virtues, constitute the -whole duty of man. Ido not think the man who " minds his own business:" only, discharges himself of all his responsibilities to God and to his neighbour. Oa the contrary, I hold that orobnjg ihs •

many advantages of free institutions, the greatest and most precious is, that they elevate and ennoble the characters of those who enjoy them, by drawing them out of the restricted circle of their private concerns into the arena of public life; by- teaching them to think, to speak, and to act, upon questions of universal interest, and by thus bringing into play the highest faculties and instincts of their nature. In the school of freedom are nourished patriotism, self-devotiou, energy, fortitude, and all the long train of civic virtues which cannot exist withoa t it. This language may be sneered at as high flown and sentimental. Yet I venture to say, almost every one here who things on that subject at all, is conscious of the practical evils to -which I allude, and which I am so anxious to avert. Pew, I think can fail to observe the tendency which prevails here, as in all communities despotically governed, to an apathy and carelessness about erery thing that does not affect oar personal interests, to a certain isolation and want of public spirit, above all, to a kind of cowardly dependence upon authorities, a dependence which is not at all inconsistent with habitual discontent. If provisions are dear, if there is a heavy sea on the bar, if the roads are soft after the rain, if the Bank refuses to discount bills, it is ten to one that the man who suffers by any of these untoward circumstances, lays it all on the head of the Canterbury Association, because in the absence of any real government, the Association stands in the place of a government here. Now what I want to see is the whole burden of setting these matters to rights thrown upon yourselves. No people was ever yet fostered and dry-nursed into prosperity. By being forced to do your own public business you will learn to do it well. If I had the produce of all California at my disposal, and the administrative genius of a Napoleon or a Cassar to deal with it, I should not be the less, in my present position, an incubus on your energies, and an obstacle to your progress. I shall never rest therefore till I see such institutions established here, as shall enable, aye, and compel yon to do without extraneous aid, as well as extraneous interference. One is as noxious as the other, your motto must be " Ourselves alone " (loud cheers).

Again, it is a great mistake to suppose tbat a people which interferes with politics, is thereby unduly diverted from industrial pursuits. History and experience have taught me a very different lesson. They have taught me that as a general rule, freedom and industry have gone hand in hand, and that just in proportion as institutions of self-government; with their necessary consequence, political activity, have prevailed among nations, has been their progress and success in all the arts of civilised life. I need not go back into remote history for proofs of this. I will take the examples immediately before our eyes, of the countries with which we are most familiar, England and America. It cannot be denied that the English and Americans are of all modern nations those which take the most unremitting and active part in political affairs, and so on the other hand, they are of all modern nations those ■which carry on most keenly, indefatigably, and successfully, every kind of private business, whether it be agriculture, manufacture, or commerce. They find time to look after their public business, and their private affairs as well; because freemen beat slaves at every thing, weight them ft 3 you please. Away then with the base notion, that because we have a great deal to do in settling ourselves just now, it is better for us to have the business of government taken off our hands. A people that acts on such a notion becomes every day not more, but less fit for selfgovernment. A people that acts consistently on such a notion, is virtually a people of slaves, and will soon exhibit all the vices, and all the weaknesses, which follow in the train, of political enslavement (cheers).

I have now concluded, I have laid before you to the best of my ability, the various points of view from which in my opinion the question before yon ought to be considered. I have not, I trust, exaggerated the benefits to be expected from the measure which I advocate. I have not concealed from you my conviction that there is serious danger of its being carried out so as to do more harm than good. If, notwithstanding this danger, you have the courage to aak for the measure, and after having obtained it, to reoist manfully any delusions and abuses which may be imposed on you under its cover, I believe you may, through its means, set a fruitful example to the British Empire and to the world; —the example of a people coutented and loyal, yat independent and free; —of an educated people fearing God, and a self-governed people honouring the King. (Mr. Orodley sat down amidst loud and long continued cheering). -

Mr. Gouland said, —I rise to address this meeting with considerable embavassment, occasioned .by the fact, that I neither am, nor ever professed to he, a public speaker. It sometimes 'happens that men not naturally gifted with eloquence, do attain considerable proficiency as public speakers, by dint of frequent j. raotiee. This opportunity, however, I have never enjoyed, as the greater part of my life has been spent in a. country where the pen rather than the tongue is the instnuneulchiefly employed in conducting public affairs. It may then be asked, Why undertake a task lor which you know yourself to be incompetent. My reply is, that I have been requested by those gentlemen who have taken in hand the matter which is this day to be sub-

mitted for your consideration to propose the first resolution. And as I yield to none in my desire to make myself useful to the community among whom I reside, I have cheerfully undertaken to advocate, to the best of my ability, a measure which I really believe to be conducive to the public interests, and to rely on your indulgence should my ability to serve you, fall short of my desire. With this preliminary apology, I will at once proceed to read to you the resolution I am about to propose.

1. That in the opinion of this meeting the erection of Canterbury into a separate province would materially promote the welfare of the settlement, by securing attention to its local interests ; by confining, as far as possible, the expenditure of its local revenue to local objects ; above all by giving to its people a direct participation in political affairs, and thereby supplying them with worthy objects of ambition, interest, and action.

To enable you to come to a decision on the important question you have met to consider, it is necessary that you should contemplate the sort of administration under which we shall be placed in the event of our being constituted a separate province. An ordinance has been recently passed by the Legislative Council now sitting at Wellington, called the Provincial Councils Ordinance. That Ordinance is now the law of the land ; and it is quite evident that if this settlement be erected into a separate province, it must be under the provisions of that ordinance that it is so erected. Now, gentlemen it is no part of my intention to discuss the merits or demerits of that ordinance. It would be indecorous in me, as an officer of the-Government which introduced it, to do so. But without pressing my own views on the subject, I may say that I very well know that it does not meet the approbation of many of you, on the ground that it does not confer on you a sufficient control over your own affairs. To such I would say,' take it as an instalment! It is at least a step in the right direction ! (cheers) If it does not give you all the control you would desire, it will still give you a very beneficial influence. If I were to offer bread to a very hungry man, would he refuse it because I did not likewise offer him butter? Would he not rather stay his stomach with the bread, and seize the first opportunity to procure the butter ? (laughter.) So I say to you, take the good that is offered to you, and it will afford you the means of procuring further good from time to time as opportunities occur. Let me now endeavour to shew you that it really will put such a weapon into your hands. One of the main provisions of the bill is the constitution of a council, composed of members two thirds of whom are to be elected by the people. No legislation can be enacted without the o-operation of this Council. Am I then wrong in affirming that with an absolute majority in your council, you will have pretty much your own way ? " Oh but," as has been remarked to me," the Governor will, by means of the loaves and fishes at his command, buy over some of the elected members, and thus secure a majority." Gentlemen, the remedy is in your own hands. Elect men who will not be bought over! (great applause.) Surely in a community like this, where men of station and honor abound, it will not be difficult to find such men.

So much has been said, and ably said, by our worthy chairman, on the advantage of local over distant governments, that he has left me but little to say on the subject. I will say, however, that it is my deliberate o]>inion that it would be greatly to the advantage of every settlement in New Zealand, if each had its own local administration for the conduct of its own local affairs.

Ami this I say irrespectively of the nature of the administration. For I hold it to apply as much to a despotism as to a liberal government. Even if it were a question between a little despot here, or a great despot at a distance, I would give my voice in favour of the former, for you are most likely to get your affairs attended to, and to have your wants supplied by the individual who resides amongst you and knows your wants, than by him who resides at a distance, and can only gain his information by written communication. Assuming then that the character of the local and the distant government' be the same, I assert that the local government for local purposes, is in every respect to be preferred to the distant government, whether the character be despotic, oligarchical, or democratic.

With this conviction, and being further of the opinion that the Provincial Councils Ordinance, even if it do not come up to the wishes

of all, will still give you a very beneficial influence in the management of your own affairs, I have much pleasure in proposing the-first resolution, which I will now again read for your information.

Mr. Alport said that it had fallen to his lot to second this resolution. He could wish the task had been entrusted to better hands, but their chairman had invited the free and fearless expression of opinion, and it was an invitation.',' from which no one ought to shrink. He seconded the motion made by Mr. Gouland with cheer- i fulness, perfectly coinciding- with him in the I opinion that half a loaf was better than no bread. He thought the subject was one they** had a right to agitate, when he looked at Lyttelton and Christchurch, and at the numerous homesteads that were beginning to dot the banks of the rivers, contrasted with'the appearance of things eight months ago. The particulars of government were matters for further consideration, and he had no doubt they would be well weighed, but all must feel that it would be infinitely better to have even the partial management of their own affairs, than be dependent on councils at Wellington, and other distant places. The resolution was then put to the meeting and carried unanimously.

Mr. Rhodes, in moving the second resolution, said he felt sure that those who were dependent for prosperity on their own exertions, would not be likely to make any unnecessary display. It was to the following effect: —

2. That by a strict economy, by the avoidance of pageantry and display, and by the provisional combination of offices (whenever such combination shall be possible) this change may be effected without any material increase in the public establishments. Mr, Davis, in seconding the above resolution, referred to Sir George Grey's recently expressed preference of superiutendants to LieutenantGovernors, and to the delay in public works which usually characterised the acts of the Government, instancing the offer by the N. Z. Company of 2000/. towards the erection of a lighthouse, which, after much delay, was ultimately declined. As a proof of the inconvenience of distant government, he might state that in the course of the next week, he must, at great expense and inconvenience, appear before the Supreme Court at Wellington, as a witness in a case in which he had not the slightest personal

interest.

The resolution was then put to the meeting, and carried unanimously.

Mr. Dampier said, —At tlie call of ouv respected chairman, I rise to propose a resolution which I would fain hope will have the entire concurrence of this numerous smcl highly respectable meeting, inasmuch as its main object is to put on record, in a spirit of kindly feeling, the earnest goodwill of the settlers of Canterbury towards their neighbours at Nelson, and a total disclaimer of any endeavour or design on their part, to encroach on the territories of that settlement. You are aware, Gentlemen, that the pasturage regulations of the Canterbury Settlement, framed by the Association in England, have been found wholly inconsistent with the requirements of the colony, and needed considerable revision, and that a committee was formed, of which I had the honour to be one, to consider and report upon the whole subject, and you will remember to have seen our report in the Lyttelton Times of the 12th of April last, which contained a strong recommendation to the Association, in order to accomplish the objects we then had particularly in view, either to request from the Government an extension of the block, or to effect some arrangement with the Government by which the pasturag.e regulations of the adjoining country in the Canterbury plains, but not within the block, might be assimilated with those of our settlement, that no unfair competition might be raised by the settlers on one side the border against those on the other, and we considered the natural boundary, to which we accordingly recommended the block should be extended, would of itself effect that object. In making that recommendation, Gentlemen, the Committee had not the , most remote intention of encroaching upon our neighbours' territory. They were not then aware, that the Nelson Settlement had any delined boundary whatever, which in any way reached the plain of which the Canterbury block comprises the middle part only —the report and the suggestion were occasioned, in fact, by the great mistake of the distant govern(For Continuation see Supplement.)

' mg body at home in attempting regulations on which they were not well advised, and is another evidence, if need require it, of the real necessity of a Local Government on all local questions.

The Government may not be willing to extend the Canterbury Block, or put further country under their peculiar restrictions, but the erection of it,

with the proposed adjoining districts in the same vpiain, into a province, will effect the object recom<sfcmended by our report, and will, I think, meet the ?rviews of the settlers in this district. t Now, gentlemen, that the Government propose '**,'to erect New Zealand into provinces, which will presently be divided into counties, and subdivided into hundreds, it is necessary that they should have one common focus and centre of action which persons from all parts may conveniently reach, for effectually carrying out the purposes and institutions, civil and political, of a province; and it is natural and reasonable to suppose that such division of the country will be adopted as shall define those provinces by those natural and determined boundaries, which, if not used as divisional lines, would wholly prevent all that communication between the various parts of the province which it is so important to preserve, and will be essentially necessary to its civil and political existence. We may not therefore unreasonably hope that the Government will take these points into consideration in determining the boundaries of the province of Canterbury, knowing it to be the desire of the settlers that this province should extend to the natural boundaries referred to in our report, although the Government may not think it expedient so far to extend the Canterbury Block and its particular land regulations. But inasmuch as it is not now our object to assign any particular boundaries to the province, but simply to protest earnestly against the charge of encroachment put upon us, and to record our good feelings towards our neighbours, whose interests are identical, though our districts should be separated and well defined, I will now beg to submit to the meeting the following resolution : — 3. That it is no part of the business of this meeting to poiut out the boundaries of the proposed province ; but that it distinctly disclaims any desire to encroach on territory to which other settlements may have a fair claim.

Mr. Templar seconded the resolution, remarking upon the natural and almost impassable boundaries of the great southern plain, enclosing a plain which was evidently intended by nature to form a whole, and which should be dealt with as such.

[This resolution was also carried by the meeting without a single expression of dissent] Mr. Fitzgerald rose and said—Gentlemen, I have to propose the following resolution :— 4°. That this meeting, while urging its claim to a local government for Canterbury, desires to guard itself carefully against being supposed to imply assent to, or approval of, the measure for establishing provincial councils which has lately been enacted, inasmuch as that, measure does not give to the people of this country any real or efficient control over the management of their own affairs, and the expenditure of their own revenues. The object of this motion is to guard the meeting against misapprehension. If we desire the separation of our district, let us clearly understand what we shall gain by such an arrangement, and also what we shall not gain. The present form of Government in New Zealand is settled by the Act of Parliament, 9 and 10 Viet. c. ciii., and 11 Viet. c. 5. By these Acts, the Governor-in-chief and his Legislative Council, which, as you know, is nominated by His Excellency, are empowered to create separate provinces in different parts of these islands, and to give to such provinces any form of Government which they may think proper. In the exercise of the power thus given, Sir George Grey has recently procured .an Ordinance, establishing a. certain form for all the legislatures of the separate provinces into which New Zealand is, or may be, divided. Hence, if the Canterbury district is declared to be a separate province, we know the form of Government which wilt immediately come into operation. Gentlemen, you are called on by the motion which I submit to you to imply that you do not approve of that form of Government. It will, of course, be unnecessary for me to go into all , the provisions of this law; it will be sufficient if M point out one or two clauses in which it is eyotally different from what we all desire, and, ys I conceive, different from, and utterly op- ■• posed to, the ancient and constitutional laws and liberties of the British Empire. Gentlemen, a Legislative Council will be established, one-third of which will be nomi nated by the Governor, and two-thirds elected by the people. It would be a farce if I were to ask your opinion of the Nominee system. I

believe there never was greater unanimity upon any subject in the world than that which the colonists of New Zealand have exhibited upon the subject of nominees (hear, and loud cheers). And I maintain that this is not merely a radical or democratic opinion : it is one entertained by men of all shades of political faith, and by many of the most eminent politicians and statesmen of our old country.

Gentlemen, I object to the nomination, by the representative of the Crown, of members to sit in deliberative assembly of the people. I object to it because it is an institution utterly unknown,,in the English system of Government. We Englishmen thoroughly understand the principle of election: it pervades all our feelings, and animates all our actions. In hundreds of social matters in which co-operation is necessary we frame our own elective Governments. We elect Committees in Societies, and Directors in Companies ; Common-Councilmen elect their Aldermen ; Kate-payers elect PoorLaw Guardians; and, finally, the electors of every county or borough elect their representative in the council of the nation—the Imperial Parliament. This principle of election pervades the whole social organization of the AngloSaxon race.

I understand a Government by King, Lords, and Commons. I can comprehend a Government by President, Senate, and Congress. A King1 or President embodying the idea of unity of action—of a one consistent and therefore vigorous executive; an Upper Chamber embodying the conservative principle; and a Lower Chamber, representing the more active and innovating energies of a people. These two principles are at work in every representative government in the world. In the only two successful popular governments which I know of, those, I mean, of England and America, these two opposing principles are recognised and represented. In England this is clone by an hereditary aristocracy; in Amerir a, by an elected second chamber. It is foreign to the present subject to enter into a discussion as to which of these two is the best. You must remember, however, that the English system was never invented or framed: it grew in the course of centuries with the growth of a great nation. The American system on the other hand was of necessity framed for the occasion ; but it was devised by statesmen of eminent sagacity and prudence, and it was devised wisely, because successfully. The Americans could not, had they wished it, create an aristocracy; but the great men who framed the American constitution knew well that the work which in England is done by the House of Lords, must be done by some one in the State ; and so they framed the Senate, consisting of older men, elected from larger constituencies, and for longer times, and generally of greater importance than the members of the Lower House. That was the scheme by which they secured the gentle tempering of the ardent and sometimes precipitate impulses of the people, and therefore the stability of the State machine. The most democratic states of America have adopted the same safeguard against such rash innovations. Gentlemen, I say these are the forms of government to which we have been accustomed, and which we understand, and which experience has shewn to be suitable to the genius of free communities of our race.

Now to what part of this system is nomineeism analogous ? (hear.) What is there in an English nobleman or an American senator in the slightest degree resembling a Colonial Governor's nominee ? The nominee does not represent the Conservative principle. He does not prevent rash legislation; for example, the most ultra loco-focoisin of America never accomplished a more precipitate piece of legislation than that which we have seen lately ha the passing of the Customs Duties Bill by the Nominee Council at Wellington (loud cheers). The nominee does not stand in the position of an hereditary peer; for he is dependent on the Governor ; but the peers are not dependent on the Crown. On the contrary, some of the most valued rights of Englishmen have been obtained by the opposition of the peers to the encroachment of arbitrary power. Gentlemen, what I am endeavouring to prove to you, is this, that the nominee in the Government under which we live does not represent anything which is known to constitutional government. There is no other political creature like him m any other Anglo-Saxon community. He has no intelligible position. He represents nobody— not even independently does

he represent himself (loud cheers) I was wrong when I said he represents nobody. There is unfortunately an idea which the nominee does represent, but it is one dangerous and unconstitutional. The nominee is the creature of the Crown, placed in the popular representative assembly for the purpose of obscuring or of neutralizing the decisions of the people. He must have this character. I have shewn he does not do Avhat a second chamber would do, and he is not elected by the people.

Sir, I am not prepared to abate one jot the ancient prerogatives of the British Grown; and amongst those prerogatives I would retain unimpaired the right of a veto upon the acts of Parliament, so long as that veto is exercised by ministers responsible to the English. Parliament in England, and to the Colonial Parliaments in the colonies. But there the prerogative stops : and this system of packing the house of the people's representatives with nominees of the Crown, is hostile to the ancient and recognized rights of the Commons ; I say it is dangerous to the liberties of the subject (loud cheers.).

Gentlemen, this question not only is not a theoretical one, but it touches you nearly and immediately in the most tender and sensitive part of an Englishmen,—in his pocket.

There is an ancient maxim, that the subject cannot be taxed without his own consent. In order to keep this sacred privilege of self-taxation inviolate, the Commons of England have ever guarded it with the most vigilant jealousy. Not only may no money bill emanate from the Crown or the Peers, but the Commons will not permit a money-bill once passed by them to be altered, to the changing of a letter, by the other estates of Parliament. Now what, suppose you, would be the condition of affairs in England, if a measure were to be proposed for allowing the Crown to nominate 220 members out of the 650 of which the House of Commons is composed ? (cheers). What would be thought if 220 nominees of the Crown were to tamper with the taxation of the people, a subject upon which even the peers are not permitted to do more than give a simple assent or dissent ? (cheers.) Do you not suppose that an able government with 220 members tied to their interests, could, practically, carry any measure they pleased ? Yet, Gentlemen, this is the Parliament which is proposed for you to live under here-(cheers). But it is not enough to shew you that the taxation of the country may be trifled with; I will shew you a strong probability that it will be so. Sir Wm. Molesworth proved unanswerably in the House of Commons that the expence of a Colonial Government, and the rate of taxation of a people in a colony was heavy or light exactly in the proportion in which they were subject to, or were free from the incubus of Governor's nominees. Let me read you a short extract from one of his speeches on Colonial Government.

"In New South Wales, in consequence of the power of the Executive in the Legislative Council, the expenditure of that colony in proportion to the population is very great. In 1846 it amounted to 28s. per head of the population, or twice the annual average rate of expenditure per head of the population in the colonies which possess representative institutions : or four times the rate of expenditure in Canada, where the people have the greatest control over their expenditure. It is a fact which I have never heard disputed, and which I proved to the house at great length two years ago, that the rate of expenditure of a colony per head of the population, depends chiefly upon the form of the local government. It is greater or less in proportion as the Colonial Office has more or less to do with it, that is, in proportion as there is more or less Colonial-office nomination. For instauce, in 1546, in the colonies in which there /were no nominees in the House of Assembly, the rate of their expenditure was 14s. per head of their population ; in those colonies which were governed entirely by nomination, the rate of their expenditure in 1545, was about 345. per head of the population, or 20s. per head more than in the colonies without nominees in the House of Assembly. The greatest rate of expenditure of a colony, was in Van Dieman's Land, entirely governed by nomination, where it amounted in 1844', to 86s. a head of the free population; and the smallest was in Canada, where it amounted to about one-twelfth of that sum, or 7s. per head. This fact shows the extreme effects of the two existing systems of nomination and election, with regard to the economical government of a colony. Between these two extremes stands the mongrel system of New South Wales, a cross between nomination and elec • tion. In virtue of election, the rate of expenditure of_ New South Wales was one third of that of Van. Dieman's Land ; in virtue of nomination it was four times that of Canada" (loud cheers).

So that unless there is to be some strange interposition in your favour, you will have to pay dearly for this form of government at present existingI.' But do you expect such an interposition ? Has the economy of the Government at Wellington been such as to entitle you to expect that you will form any exception to the universal rule ?

Hitherto I have been speaking of the form of the Local Legislative Council. I have shewn you a valid objection to its form. Now let me ask your attention jto its jurisdiction. Whatever be its form, it wiJl not have power to do what it ought to be able to dp. Your Provincial Legislature will have no real control over the principal part of the public revenues jof the Settlement (hear, bear). The provisions of the Provincial Councils Ordinance ars excellent as far as they go. -The whole revenues! of all the Provinces are to be paid to the Treasurer of the whole Colony. He is to take out of what js contributed by each province, its fair ■hare towards the expences of the Central Government ; and is then to return the rest to the treasurers ofithe respective provinces, to be expended at the discretion of their local legislatures. All this is excellent ; but let me read you a few words from the Ordinance, —"all this is to be subject to any change which by law or ordinance now in force may have been made on the general revenues of New Zealand, or of the provinces into which the colony may be divided." I have to enquire then, is there any such charge settled upon the revenues of the province? I turn to the Constitutional Act of 1846. There I find the Crown is empowered to reserve 6000?. a year out of the revenues of each province into which New Zealand may be divided, for the purpose of paying the salaries of the government officers. I turn to the Charter of 1846, which was founded upon the Constitutional Act, and I find the 6000 Z. is actually reserved, and directed to be accounted for in the manner specified by the royal instructions which accompanied the charter. 1 turn to the royal instructions, and I find that with this 6000 J. a year you will have nothing to do. It 'will be collected from you ; but you will not be consulted as to its expenditure, nor will it necessarily be accounted for to you in any way whatever. It is placed entirely at the disposal of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury (hear, hear).

N0w.6000/. a year is the full amount if it does not exceed the amount, of the revenues of this settlement at jthis moment. If then, our settlement were declared an independent province to-morrow, the localllegislature -would not be able to touch one farthing pf the public revenues. No doubt as the settlement advances, the public income will rapidly increase; but for a long time 6000/. a year will form a very large part of the revenues of the province, wHich will be wholly removed from the public control (cheers). ■ But thjs is not the only feature in the case. The object of reserving this 6000/. a year is to pay the salaries of the public officers of the settlement. The samfe authority which pays public officers, will appoint public officers; and officials will never be really responsible, except to those by whom they are paid.! Hence not only will the expenditure of the public revenues be beyond your control, but the public servants of the colony will be entirely irresponsible to yourselves. This is? the strongest instance in which the limitation of |the jurisdiction of the provincial councils will inflijct the deepest injury on the settlement. But it isjnot all; the General Legislative Council of the colony is to have entire jurisdiction over the provinces: it is to over-ride all the acts of the local councils. But the general council of the colony is nominated by the-Governor. Thus, the Governor, is able to determine arbitarily what shall be the general expenditure of the whole colon)', and therefore what shall be the contribution of each provinae Uo that expenditure. So you will first have the 6000/. a year reserved for the Treasury to deal with] and then another indefinite slice reserved tot the Governor to deal with, before you can come in -for one farthing which you may expend upon objejcta of local importance. In speaking of the jurisdiction of the council, I ought not'to omit to mention that it is required by one clause of the ordinance "to comply with all instruction^ which it may receive from her Majesty." Sir, I am!the last person to speak irreverently of her Majesty, but if the instructions so named really emanated! from her Majesty, that is to say from her Majesty's advisers, responsible to the people for the advice they give their sovereign, even then I should protest against such a monstrous and unconstitutional exercise of the prerogative. But •when I. Isnow, as all the world knows, that these instructions are the work of a few nameless and unknown clerks in a public office, practically irresponsible! to the parliament, and utterly irresponsible to you, —when I know that these instructions have become a bye-word amongst colonists for specimens of ignorance, incapacity, and presumption,! I am beyond measure amazed at the fatuity which could introduce such a clause into a bill, professing to grant English representative institutions to an English community (loud cheers). Gentlemen, if these things be so, you will natu-

rally enquire, what good shall we then get by a separate province at all ? You have already decided, as I think most wisely, that you desire to have your district made into a separate province. Remember, in the first place, that all the objections which I have urged against the Provincial Councils Ordinance apply with still greater force to the government under which you are now living. It is not as if the separation of this district would create those evils: whether you are an independent province, or a part of New Munster, you will still suffer the same evils. It is just as competent to the government to crush the settlement under a wastful public expenditure, or to fill it with useless officials in the one case as in the other ; and you would have even less power of resistance, if you were only part of a province, than you would have if you had a local government. In Colonial Government there t are two distinct questions, one as to form, the other as to locality. The fact of government being distant, is itself a great grievance, so much so that in many cases a bad local government is attended with less evil than a much better government which is distant. To reform government is one thing, to localise it another, and even more important. More important for this reason, that if government be really local, I am satisfied that it will reform itself. This then is the real advantage which you will gain by a separate province ; —your government will be local.

But there is another thing. This government will not, cannot, must not last (loud cheers). I am quite certain it will not (cheers). The Colonial Reform party in England is rapidly gaining ground, a new spirit has arisen amongst public men at home. A wholesome. state of public feeling upon the question of colonial policy is spreading everywhere. A very few years hence, and not a public man in England will be found to support such a form of government as that established by the Provincial Councils Ordinance, and therefore no governor of a colony will venture to force it upon an unwilling and dissatisfied people. In accepting, therefore, a separate province, we are uot accepting a permanently bad constitution, we are doing this, and this only, getting the seat of government "changed from a wrong place to a right place, being assured that the first step towards getting a good government is to get a local government. Gentlemen, I know it will be thrown in our teeth that it is very easy to find fault with the present constitution of things, but not so easy to propose practical measures to replace them. But Ido not understand all this mystery-making about the government. Depend upon it, all paper constitutions founded upon grand theories or whimsical crotchets, are ,worse than worthless—they are essentially dangerous. There is no more real difficulty in governing a community settling down as we have done, upon a wild and unoccupied country, than there is in the management of a railway company or the conduct of a corporation (hear hear). Let us take things as they are, not as we think they ought to be : let us build up government as we really want it, not pile up institutions which it is fancied we ought to want. In reality, and in fact, New Zealand is not, as has been said, " one great colony," it is what England was when our Saxon ancestors colonized its shores, a number of separate and independent settlements, having no communication with each other except by water, and but few interests in common. The settlements in New Zealand being really separate in most things ought to have separate municipal governments.

The main principles of the colonial policy for which we Rtrive, are very simple. They teach us that there are some few questions which concern the honour and interest of the whole empire of Great Britain. These are imperial questions ; and with such matters colonial parliaments should not be permitted to deal. Bat in all except these few questions, in all the great mass of questions which require local legislation, colonial parliaments should have entire and unrestricted authority. Similarly, in a country like New Zealand, consisting of a number of separate settlements, there are some few questions which relate to the interests of all the settlements in common. For example,itwould obviinsly be inconvenient that one settlement should be able to enforce a tariff hostile to the neighbouring settlements. The construction of a tariff, then, is a general question ; and all such questions should be regulated by a central legislature, and the local councils in each settlement should not be'permitted to touch them. But these general questions are few in number. The great mass of objects for which government is required, are local ;.and in all such, the local council should have full and uncontrolled authority. But you ask, how would you prevent the jurisdictions of the general council, and of the local council, conflicting. I reply, as in the United States the jurisdiction of Congress and of the assemblies of the several states of the Union are kept distinct —by the Constitutional law, interpreted by the Bupreme Court. If a state pass a law, and any individual is indicted for a breach of that law, he may plead that the State has exceeded its jurisdiction, that it had no right to pass the law. He appeals to the Supremo Court. The Supreme Court does not say arbitrarily whether the State ought to have passed the law or not. It simply says whether such a law is or is not consistent with the constitutional law of the State. This system has worked admirably in the United States, and by it the jurisdictions of the general and separate legislatures are kept entirely distinct.

Gentlemen, I have shadowed forth what onr government might be, instead of what it is—thisis not foreign to my subject—We are met here to-day to answer a qnestion which has been asked us by His Excellency as to the form of govorument under which we desire to live. "We may bo asked

other questions of the same nature. Should that time come I hope most earnestly that we shall all consent to cling to the institutions of oar fatherland. Bat by those institutions 1 do not mean the mere external forms of governmeat'ia England, I mean the principles which have given life and vitality to those forms. And I confess with shame that when I look at all tho communities to which England has given birth, I see thoso principles of government more faithfully preserved by tho colonies which have become independent of her rule, than in those which are still under her sway. I never hear of new forms of government being invented in the United States. State after state springs into exiat- \ ence, and each, naturally adopts the form of government of ,/j those which preceded it. California was a desert thousands of aJ miles away from the homes of civilized man,when the Colonial f office Bet about manufacturing a government for New Zea- , land. California is now a state of the Union with a settled ' government, and settled laws, while the Colonial Office is still occupied in tinkering up a constitution for this colony, and we are still grumbling, complaining, and struggling for the common and ancient privileges and franchises of Englishmen. Sir, lam not expressing unqualified admiration or approval of the American system—but in this one thing they far surpass ua. And depend upon it their success in government making is owing simply to one thing, that they never try to make it it all. The vital principles of their government are so graven on the minds of the people that they naturally and spontaneously recnr to the institutions under which they have been accustomed to live. Let ns imitate their example in this. Let us claim, tho institutions under which we and our forefathers have lived, —if not the identical forms, at least the spirit—forms as similar as forms instituted can be to forms which havebecome venerable by antiquity—as a new country can be similar to an old one. If wo are to have a representative of the majesty of the Crown—let us atleast protest against his being dependant upon instructions from the clerks in an office at the antipodes—if we cannot obtain an ancient aristocracy ■whose very names preserve the traditions of their country's greatness—at least let us secure that the elevated position of the peer in England shall only be occupied by thosu who obtain the esteem and respect of their fellow-colonists here. —And lastly, if we would have a real House of Commons, without which all government is an utter and most miserable delusion, let us never rest satisfied until that assembly is purified from every influence, except that which ought to be paramount in it, and becomes a full, free, and fair representation of the collective opinion of the people, (Load cheers.)

Mr. Wormald seconded the resolution, expressing his cordial agreement with it, and anticipating tbe advantages which local legislation would be sure to confer upon the settlers.

Mr. Cholmondeley wished to offer a few words before this resolution should be put to the meeting, as he thought it the most important yet proposed. First, the resolution shewed that they fell in with Sir George Grey's proposition, he had, no doubt, sincerely made it, they had as sincerely accepted it, it was to be hoped they had clenched that nail. Secondly, it behoved them to consider well how far they pledged themselves to that form of government it had been attempted to foist upon them, because if they did not, and they found out hereafter, the evils of that system, Sir George Grey might lay the fault on them. It was for them to say whether the constitution offered would satisfy them or not; whatever they did, let them clearly express their minds. They must determine their own political status. He would say, let certain grand imperial rights, as the making of war and peace, &c, be retained to the mother country, and everything not in that schedule, be left to the people |of New Zealand (loud cheers). [The speaker then expatiated at some length on the importance of right principles of government to the interests of the colony, and concluded by urging the meeting to side unanimously for the resolution last proposed.} The resolution was then carried unanimously by the meeting. Mr. Wormaid said in the unexpected absence of Dr. Donald, who had been entrusted with it, it devolved upon him to move the next resolution, remarking that it was but an act of justice to Sir George Grey, to whom, however much they might disagree with his measures, as he in toto did, they must accord the reputatiou of courtesy and candour. He therefore moved

5. That the thanks of this meeting be conveyed to His Excellency Sir George Grey for the gracious and constitutional manner in which he has referred the decision of this question to those whom it mainly, if not alone concerns.

Mr. Beamish seconded the resolution, whicV was carried unanimously.

Mr. Swinbournb proposed the last resolution in the following terms: 6. That a memorial founded on the above resolution be drawn up and circulated for signature among the inhabitants of the settlement, and that the magistrates be requested to form themselves into a committee for that purpose.

He would only remind the meeting of one point* it was that while they held up their heads in favour of the resolution, they must not forget to affix their signatures to the memorial.

Mr. Packer seconded the'resolution last proposed' .'. with a great deal of pleasure. He was delighted U v .find what he might call a section of England oi*"^ the shores of New Zealand, displaying so much zeal and energy in defence of their interests, and to find at their head a gentlemen so active in his cooperation with them as the Chairman of that meeting. This resolution was put, and carried unanimously. The meeting then dissolved.