FISHING INDUSTRY

Kaipara and Waitemata Echo, 27 February 1919, Page 2

FISHING INDUSTRY

EVIDENCE AT

HELENSVILLE

INSPECTOR AND GOVERNMENT

ASSISTANCE NEEDED

THE Fishing Commission held a sitting at the Court House on Friday last, 21st February. Mr J. F. Dickson represented the Fishermen's Union, and Mr L. F. Ayson the Marine Department.

William Johnson, examined on oath, stated : —

To Mr Dickson : I am a fishermen, at Helensville, and sole proprietor of the fishing boat named Victory. I have 5 old nets which cost me before the war £5 10s each, and a net 12 months' old which cost me £8 10s without mountings, four flounder nets which cost ma 18 months ago £5-10s each, and two small dinghies worth £7 each. A Fish Inspector was lately appointed to inspect the fish of the district in Auckland. He has since been dismissed. Prior to his appointment I had fish declared by the dealers several times to be bad. While he was in office none of my fish was declared bad. When fish are declared bad in Auckland we have to pay the freight. We ask that there should be an Inspector. I supply only the Auckland and local markets, the latter to the extent of a few odd bundles. In some instances we have caught fish about 10 o'clock, and sent them by mid-day train to Auckland, and sometimes the dealers have declared it bad. It takes us from an hour to three hours to get from here to the fishing grounds. We catch ou' fish in from 5 to 6 feet of water. In good weather we begin to catch fish after we have been on the grounds an hour or two. Then we bring them straight into the wharf, and send them to Auckland. On the average we ha.ye them landed at the wharf an hour to three hours after leaving the fishing grounds. We try to run it so as to catch one or other of the three daily trains. One starts at 7 a.m., another at 12.30, and the other at 4 p.m. The limiting system is still in existence here. The prices of requisites have gone up considerably during the war, particularly as to oils and nets. In the last five years the price of our fish from our point of view has not increased.

ToMrAyson: We fish at Otamatea in the winter weather. At times the Auckland market will not take our fish, It did not take any last week, though we could have sent supplies. We get 3/3 per dozen for flounders over llins., and 1/3 for small ones. If there was a market for a larger quantity we could send more fish than we do at present. I think the fishermen here could almost double their catches, I think the fishermen carry out the regulations as to the length of nets that can'be set fairly well.

To the Commission : One man here fishes only for the local market. If he has more fish than he can sell here he is not prevented from sending the surplus to Auckland. But we are limited to 100 dozen for each boat with two men. If we could double our catch we could sell the fish at lower prices, if all our catch were taken. *

To Mr Waddingham : We arrange the price with the City Council through our representative. I believe the Council will take all our fish on condition that all above a certain quantity aro to be sold at auction. I think some were offered at auction a week or two ago.

To Mr Richmond : At present flounder are particularly plentiful. There is a good supply all the year round, but especially in summer. Our orders aro not limited in winter.

To the Commission : The means of transportation to Auckland are not very satisfactory. The fish sometimes have to be sent in closed trucks. It is difficult for them to arrive in Auckland fresh in hot weather.

Herbert E. Barnsley, examined on oath

stated :—

To Mr Dickson : I am Secretary of the Northern Fishermen's Utiion. I interviewed the representatives of the Auckland City Council on B'ebruary 7th in regard to the price of Kaipara fish, and again on the 14th. It was arranged that owing to the market being glutted with flounder I should arrange for 600 mullet and 1200 dozen flounder to be supplied for the week ending February 24th. The price was 3/3 a dozen large flounder, 1/4 for small flounder, 1/6 per dozen for mullet, freights and charges to be paid by the fishermen. I called the fishermen together in Helensville, and we drew lots on all boats as to who should supply the 600 dozen mullet. We considered that if four boats were engaged for this they would make wages, about £i week over working expenses, we decided to send the other boats out for a week for the flounder, and the arrangements amongst the members of the Union were that a double boat should catch 100 dozen and a single boat 65 dozen ilonnder. I notified the two Batley fishermen that they could take their share if they chose to fish with the Kaipara fishermen. The Municipal authorities have recently intimated that tney will always auction our fish, and they did as a matter of fact a fortnight ago. Small flounder brought lOd a doz., large flounder 1/2 a dozen. It was in consequence of these prices that I interviewed the Council and made the ar-r-angnments I have spoken of. With the high cost of banzine and material it does not pay the fishermen to fish at auction prices. We have proved in Auckland that the auction system is not workable. As to railage charges, for some month s

I handled all the Kaipara catches. On August 20th, 1918, I received 509 bundles of one particular consignment. The freight upon it from Helensville to Auckland was £3/19/9. On August 21st I received 607 bundles, ou which I paid; £8/15/5 freight. Sometimes we have fci paid the freight and sometimes the ■'''"■' Council. It is a matter of arrangement.

To the Commission: Under the arrangement which expires on the 24th all charges are to be paid by the fishermen. At that time there was no arrangement with the Municipal market as to prices. At that time the current prices were 3/10 a dozen for large flounder, 1/10 small, 3/2 per bundle for schnapper, and there was no arrangement as to mullet. This occasion I have spoken of was the first occasion when I and the Council have arranged for a limit. But there ,has been a limit for the past tyro years on the part of the Auckland dealers generally.

To Mr Dick6on : The City Council has not to my knowledge imposed a limitation upon the Kaipara fishermen, prior to the arrangement I made. The Municipal Market has refused to take any fish from Kaipara. It was about 18 months ago. With Mr Constable I saw the manager of their market, who refused in my presence to take his supply.

To Mr Waddingham : The freezer was full at the time the fish were auctioned,

or I was told that it was,

George Constable, examined on oath, stated : —

To Mr Dickson: lam a line and net fisherman, and have been at Helensvil(e for 21 years. I am part owner of the boat Hauraki. I supply the Auckland market. When the canning factory is open I supply it with mullet, and the balance goes to Auckland. I have repeatedly been limited as to my catches. I have not been limited by the Municipal Market, but they have absolutely refused to handle my fish. This was 12 or 18 months ago. Since then they have not taken fish from me till within the last week. Prior to the appointment of the Inspector under the Act of 1915, my fish was more than once declared bad by the dealers. While he was in office he did not condemn a dozen of mine. I wish, to see an Inspector in office. The price of fish is not I think as good as it was four or five years ago—l refer to flounders. The price of our materials has risen very much. I produce bills for benzine. Four years ago it cast from 12/6 to 14/----per case. It now costs 27/6. Nets four or five years ago were £3/2/6 for the average net—not slung—and now the price is about £10. To sling a net costs from £4 to £4/7/6. The price of rope before the war was 7^d per lb; now it. costs 1/8 per lb. We use a fair quantity. Cork and lead have also increased —lead from 3d to 9d per lb, and corks from 7d to 1/9 a dozen, and twine from 4/6 to 16/-. On the average about 10 tons of fish are sent from Helensville per week* We could increase the , output to more than double. I think the same number of fishermen could increase it by about 115 tons, on the average. The weather does not greatly effect our work or our output. In winter we could send on an average about 14 tons, principally mullet. There is a fair supply of flounder all the year round. We can get to the fishing grounds in from an hour to three hours, according to where we are fishing. We have to work the grounds with the tide. After catching the fish it takes us on an average about two hours to bring them to the wharf. We arrange as far as possible to catch the trains, so the supply to Auckland can be practically sent on the same day they are caught. I have lost fish through not being able to transport them to Auckland. A chilling plant as Helens ville would be necessary if we were to double our catoh. To the Commission; Fish are as plentiful here as they were 20 years ago To Mr Richmond : I know nothing personally as to the weight of fish gent away. The figures I have given are hearsay,. Stewart's canning factory takes most of the mullet here when in operation. I believe they send tinned fish all over New Zealand and Australia. Our present number of fishermen oould catch twice as muoh as the factory could handle, and catch flounder at the same time. We oatch mullet in daytime and flounder at night,

To Mr A-yson : Our fish go to Auqk-* land in an X-B waggon with hooks ill the roof. I do not think it is quite ' suitable. What I would prefer is the . same kind of waggon with a greater number of Bliding hooks—l2o instead of the present 50 stationery, That would not bruise the fish so much. The waggons are ventilated a little at the sides and ends. I think Helensville the most suitable place for a chilling plant for this distriot. If we could dispose of all our catch, then for the two montb<»j for which mullet are plentiful we coiildil sell them at a shilling a dozen. Th'e^' average net when slung is 65 fathoms, and the average depth about 6ft 6ins. ''"'": The mesh we buy for flounders is generally 4M to 4^. We work with 4^. For mullet we buy 4&. The average H±e of a net will be about 15 to 18 months.

Willianx J. Scott, examined on oathstated :—

ToMrDickson: I am a line and net ;; fisherman, and have been fishing at-; Helensville for the last 19 years. I am' the Union representative of the Kaipara fishermen. There are 16 boats here, twQ Qt which are outside the Union. Their nft^n 6/ alUed at 700' and th* b^ts at AJ4UO. The prices we obtain for fish-to-day are much the same as those of tour or five years ago. The cost of our . requisites has increased by about 200%^

We supply only the Auckland market, except that one man supplies the town and sends any surplus to Auckland. Prior to the appointment of an Inspector fish was condemned or lost in transit.

Since his appointment fish have been gjjggylamned. We were quite satisfied by decision. Prior to his appointment, the sole judge of the • state of fish was the dealer. We had nobody to represent the fishermen. As to fish that has been condemned we have paid the cost of transporting. I have been repeatedly limited as to catch. I have been told sometimes not to send any supplies at all to Auckland. 1 produce a telegram which I received from the Auckland Municipal Fish Market on this point. Last week the limit was 100 dozen for two men on one boat, and 65 dozen for a one-man boat. I caught 65 dozen between Tuesday and Thursday—three days. I could have caught twice that

quantity.

Taking the whole year we

could easily double our catches. Weather does not affect us much, as there is 4f plenty of shelter in Kaipara Harbour. There is seldom a whole week when we cannot get out. The supply of fish is very plentiful. When the canning factory is open the Stewart firm takes about the fish from five boats' All the rest can be sent to Auckland market. Mullet are so plentiful that we can practically guarantee a constant supply in summer Last winter the mullet were more plentiful than I have seen them for some years. To Mr Richmond : The limitations are put on us mostly during the summer. We can sell all we can get in winter. Our seasons vary. We may even get two or three bad years and then two or three good.

To Mr Ayson: The supply of fish is as good as when I began fishiug. I think a larger number of men and nets could be

worked ■cithout reducing the supply. The supply in winter could be increased

if we had more boats. 300 fathoms of net per boat now allowed by the regulations are in ray opinion quite sufficient for a one man boat. I would recommend double the length for the larger boats. We could then catch more fish. I mean a greater number of fish' I have been speaking of the lower portions of the Kaipara, and do not include the neighbourhoods of Pahi and Batley. We fish right up there in winter, but do not go $go far in summer. On the present trucks we could not send fish from Batley. It would require a chilling plant. We could only catch the train in the neighbourhood of Batley when the tides are suitable.

To the Commission: We could fish from Port Albert, Pahi, and Batley in any weather. We could get ice up there from Auckland, but it would be expensive. More men are fishing at Helensville than before the outbreak of the war. If a better market were found there would be room for more men. We have six on active service now. If there were a chilling plant at Helensville all channels could be fished all through the year.

George C. Andrews;, examined on oath, stated: —

To Mr Dickson : I am a line and net fisherman, and have been fishing from Helensville for the last six years. I am owner of the boat Eagle and three punts. On two occasions my fish have been refused by the consignee at the Railway Station. The fish were sold for the freight by the Railway authorities. One of the consignees was Sanford Ltd. One lot ot mullet was 109 dozen, and the other between 30 and 40 dozen. I produce quotations from the Municipal Fish Market as to the price of flounder, dated February 6, 1919. In September 1918 I received 5d dozen for mullet from the Municipal Market. That would not pay for the cost of oil alone. That was a sale by auction, These were sold on fishermen's account at auction. 1 have been told several times not to send any fish because the market was glutted— that if I sent them they would be -subject to auction. I agree that, the supply of fish could be considerably increased. Mullet has been fairly plentiful in winter, and I got only 9d a dozen ja September.

To Mr Ayson : The fishermen have not in my opinion had any voice in the fixing of prices. The dealers generally quoie us a price, and we have only to accept it or refuse it. I have not insured my boat, because I thought the premiums would be too high. On ennuiring I was told that it would cost me about £6 10s for the amount of risk that would;be taken, It would be very much to qur advantage if the Government would insure our boats at a more r-easanable ra te ? The regulations do not allow enough net for the two hand boats. The quantity allowed now would be enough for a one man boat. I think we ought to have double the present j*r**^tfjpL&ce for a two hand boat, say ij^Tfathoms, " To Mr Richmond ; We have notified tije dealers in Auckland that we would «pt sell below a certain price, Our reason was that they would only take a certain quantity of fish. We have fixed the price on certain occasions without consulting the dealers.

To Mr Waddingham: In some instances the Council notified us when they propose to auction our fish. Generally the^ do- If they were not auctioned they would have to be thrown way Tlie fish sold at 5d Went d°Wn w the afternoon train, arriving at 330 p.m. They' had b^on' cangty the previous nightTo the Commiislqa : If we were ah inwed to use a longer net I believe that - \a would be causht, and no fish PIS be destroyed. More could be r&HgM' with°ut bio°kins the channei-

It is on the flats that we want to use

longer nets,

Augustus Tilby, examined on oath, stated :—

To Mr Dickson : I am a fisherman and proprietor of the boat May. I have been fishing at Helensville on and off for 12 years. About throe years ago I went through the Bankruptcy Court. I had too expensive a plant, and was paying to* much interest, and the Auckland dealers would not take all the fish I could supply, and refused to take fish as being bad when they were not. On one occasion I proved that they wore not bad. There is no provision whereby I could get Government assistance, either then or now. I have had to pay freight upon fish that had been condemned. I advocate having an independent Inspector of fish at Auckland, I endorse what has been stated as to the increased cost of requisites. In December 1914 I sent flounder and mullet to Sandford Ltd. I produce account from them, with note upon it. When I received it I wrote demanding 6d dozen more than he had agreed to pay, as I wanted the ruling price* of fish at that period. He wanted to pay me 6d less than the ordinary price. The fish were caught about 6 a.m., and were in Helensville at 10.30, and were good when I sent them They left here at noon. When I got this note I wrote Sandford stating the fish were not two-tide fish, and if he did not give me a further 6d dozen I would forward his letter to the Health Deparment. I produce the reply and also another letter, sending also the other 6d a dozen. There were other occasions when Sandfords condemned my fish. I suggest that Government should give financial assistance to fishermen, in the way of getting cheaper gear and nets, better means of transport to Auckland, and assistance in regard to

insurance. The Government could import gear in larger quantities than we . could buy it in, and distribute it to us. They could also provide a chilling plant here, and could assist us by lending us money to buy gear and boats by advances under the same system as the advances to settlers. I have a mortgage on my boat of £200, on which I am paying 6H%- The Government could lend us money instead of our having to go to the money market. I produce a telegram which relates to fish sent to Auckland by me, and was handed to me by the Railway authorities. I made inquiries and found that the flounders had been sold to Mr Clegg at 2/- dozon — over 80 dozen. The Municipal authorities could not at that time take fish from us on a Thursday, as they ha:l no freezer. Apparently more fish went down than I thought. I have lately had one lot of flounders auctioned by the Municipal people. They were put up in lots of 10 dozen, large fish, and they realised 11/9 per lot. Out of that they stopped commission, freights, and cartage. There were 90 dozen altogether. All that I received for the lot was £B.for these flounders and ■46 dozen mullet, which had been sent a day earlier. This did not pay me. I do not consider auctioneering fish a paying proposition.

To the Commission : If the Government insured us against all risks at say £2 10s per £100, I think all fishermen would insure.

To Mr Richmond : I would advocate the reduced rates uf premium applying to fishing boats of all descript ions.

Tony Antonovicli, examined on oath, stated :—

To Mr Dickson : I am a fisherman at j Batley, and have been on my own | account for two years* Prior to that I j worked for Mr Morgan. lam getting any quantity of fish, but cannot get the markets to take it. Whenever 1 can I send fisk to Auckland. I used to send large quantities, but the limiting system was applied to me. I have sent a good quantity to the Municipal Market, Sanford, and Williams. While the Epidemic was on the Municipal Market told me not to send fish. After the Epidemic I sent fish and they wired that the fish were in bad order. For those fish I got nothing, and I do not know what became of them. Later they wrote saying they made no arrangement with me, though they had previously written asking me to send fish. Before the Epidemic I was supplying them regularly. Since the Epidemic I have sent six consignments, and I do not know what has happened to the fish. I have received no returns or notifications. Christopher Diraka, examined on oath, stated :— To Mr Dickson ; I am a fisherman at Helensville and owner of the boat Laura. I have supplied the Municipal Market at times. lii August and September 1918 I consigned mullet to Auckland, and it was sold for 1/-, lOd, 7d, 6d, and 5d per dozen. From that had to be deducted charges for auctioneer's commission, Inspector's fee, and freights. To the Commission; The fish would generally arrive at Auckland in tho afternoon, and could not be sold till the next day. We sometimes send them by the 4.15 train. They would be quite fresh when put on the train, and should be quite fit for use next morning. 1 would be prepared to insure my boat if the premium were £2 10s per £100. James Kavali, examined on oath, stated :— To Mr Dickson : 1 am a fisherman at Helensville for the past 4]A, years. Jam owner of the boat ISfancy," valued £250. My. four nets are worth £60, and my total gear £110. I have been supplying the Municipal Market, San fore] Ltd., anq other dealers. While the Inspector was in office I had my fish condemned once, That-was cm o<n occasion when I brought it through from Batley. I agree with what the other witnesses have, said in

truck,

regard to State aid. I have been limited as to catch. On February 4, 1919, I sent a quantity of flounders to the Municipal Market, and they were sold by auction. For every lot of 10 dozen large I got 11/9, and for smaller ones an average of lOd dozen. I paid all freight and expenses.

George Bailes, examined on oath, stated : —

To Mr Dickson : I am a fisherman at Helensville, working on shares with Mr Tilby. On January 22nd I sold some mullet to Sanford Ltd., which they classified as stale mullet, for bait. There was no Inspector, he having been dismissed. They were not gutted. I received for them 9d dozen.

To Mr Richmond : There is always a possibility of our fish going down in an ordinary truck with simply a tarpaulin. I have never sent fish in a truck that required a tarpaulin, always in a fish

To Mr Dickson : I have been fishing for seven months, and have never had any fish condemned by the Inspector.