THURSDAY, JUNE 25.

Hawke's Bay Weekly Times, Volume 2, Issue 79, 13 July 1868, Page 3 (Supplement)

THURSDAY, JUNE 25.

jfMr,«" n H‘Lea:nv pursuant, to notice, q "j > feent - Pro viUci al icaii .be! excß ahgeil for- adless/ K§K^ii^oftw^pf : iloqa] : sG;oyt:r!imeiiC ; ; ••(■. !-'• ••;. improper. 1 sideratibU .of:’ tlie.; (Council. : t tliey’ : r ;^Mti|^m)!;^;^'tiXfSctionVin<tKeir-\-/details;';;; sb94§j]it inight'be ;subr*-’ - ; iustitiitions, -tli.ey mark-’apontlie nqiddixtraliG-overnment' ;,.;«^i^|^^i^*m^^y;^Vptibiic : -'.Vprfc's?. : -a§ :^K^li^i3o^b/^;'^^apprQr^d' : 6f tiieprin.7., ; ; designatioh'of' a" it- wasia.good onev ; » ■He invited the to express their opinion subject; Mr. jßfHpnEs seconded tlie motion. Mr. Carlton said that the Government --ougbKtp. baYe comp down with a .substan';tive: rnotioii, and not have left it to the

Council - to. bring forward -a resolution. r He>tliouglit .4lie province had already had ‘of .Wellington, and' would hot ’ >sanction, ;.j'any scheme of 're-aiinexatiPn.: %>l*faptfght,r-however, v that : whatever opinion-the might express/ would be, considered as - of ;no moment by the j .'(^epei:!^,Government, for they hadhitherr i;. k ito':trea.ted r .resplntidns; of the Council with • •'huiforai.: neglect. He was not prepared to say- whether' our representatives in ' theGenerali Assembly were to blame’ for ’?jfbisftor-noti Hetrusted’ that although ‘ - sorQx t gentlemen might dikes to see -the’ handed" * over : hound hand' and vofoot. to ithe.. General 'Government, the .fvG.ouncil wonld endeavour to let the pro- : yince keep the control own aifairs in. : itsrown hands as long as possible. - ~ f- v there- • .was any Ope rso'partiar to the Government .ht Wellington as, to dish to see the whole (control of this province placed in'its hands. ; i '3?here appeared'to him'to bethree courses ' :;openHir the '(future" for the province—the - . first/to lapse altogether and go under the j wing, of?the General Government; second/ : to cohtihuPhhe prpvih'eial ; system; third. : to; adopt the system‘ .of local boards :or '• He’ saw ;nc> advantage in subdivi- ■ < Y, sion';' itAwpuld;ohly-complicate mutters at

onapiyj, UIiUHB. vILOUgEu STTiail luLd.l I wouldtoon lose the. Confidence of swayed by mill'. '.due^iiifiueiiicesL r As regarded passing; un- : i; der the Grefieral Government, or continu- ~ ; hi& : odr < present systemif be thought weyloshould do <juite : as weUdiyitiiel second, as s He could seel no tiling to-be 11 i . gaingdibyla change; hewould propose to. - : i niaTce, the''.present* sy stem :; as cheap and; ; ; 'V effective ns'possible;, liekxv) ' J'Hel Vi agree ; lwitli;liliis' colleague that : tbe General,Government would pay no at-.- ■ > tent!on;fc tKe vrisb 6f the:io6iihcil ori< this ■ - subject. -rfpri however' they .might have. . o’; t. -They wptddi ; con- . sideredltbat alresoidtion bf Council ttould 1 not He'-^nritEptit: v J ;The. IquestioA of ''TcontmfianeApf \the pf esent sy stint? sol de-' economyiltKal; Ht; ;feieihedo& .: him tdbea mere' quest!orf* of figbres-o':' ' ' .. 1 ' as, %: s®' was' t b^^iLQuld:f'much-. y I ; : Hd we; ‘^ k^e?^m^r^siaplishmehts.'llHe;wonld\fead: ') ,(bef not think cient shires to .give satis-"r-*of - oyerwhelmed by a system of agents; and tlie errors into' winch .he . thought a General • Government He bp'lievedfhat'ifwe;didlbui*dutyinreducing the haye. no fear of -d the - 'of our own-affairs, he would

- r w snourdliavQ been, more definite,' and that ■-•■ - es's^fpfefSmsSe^

IcoursAh^ hoped tliat they would be; fairly discussed ; ;;on^'all^side^‘^f;i;ih^Vhpgge.;-^:;Hd^:6iild : ’ 'move, to the G_oliave PPhinims.]. :-.}a* : :. 31r, : obmond hopcd tliafc the member 'foiptlie'koutitryi'diStriet-ue^ ;i;espluti bus,. dp;give.‘members dime to.-.cop?' ; (>- dhc Cpuacil.;;/HeiWohld iidw take an. pp•portunity; of defending the- course- the Gpyenimentr.had 'taken ou this question;, . Several 'meimbers : ;-hadc.said 'thatpit was" ‘th eiipduty todiavb .brbjiighk forward , ;; sbine ;scheme for the cpnsideration'of the Oouunot tliinlc ifc; right to. expect ; that, his; . Honor and: himself,, both, members of the General'Assembly, .should 'take the.initiatiye in such a matter. - They . had purposely brought , the question . forward in a vague , form, in the expectation

that some, member would introduce something.more tangible. ;Ho thought that the proposed;; resolution of tho. member, for the-country! district seemed to be in a manner ;bound up with previous ones that lid had brought forward—at any: rate it rah ill the same channel: The! Provincial Governments is at first constituted were very different bodies from the present. They soon began' to mimic higher forms of Government; and one power after -another was added, until they present position, .The Provincial Government was nothing more or less-than amnnici-“ -polity, like .anordinary 1 borough in: England. The borough of Marylebone had : far higher powers than any Provincial Council, andyeb-it wasa mere municipality. He had never, heard of the lord Mayor, who possessed as much power as the Sultan of Turkey, havihg-an Executive. The Superintendent, by his notice, asked the ! Council;to consider what would be the cheapest form of Government we could adopt. The member for Te Ante (Mr. Cariyon) had. made an old-womanish

speech on the subject, and if that speech contained all he' knew’ liis information must be very meagre.. No one ever dreamt of.re-annexation. H'e hoped something, would be.done to check the over assumption of the power by Provincial Governments; but the statement that he was at any time ready- to exchange provincialism for centralism was unfounded and contrary to fact. He would not debate the subject now, but would -be prepared to go into the question when the discussion took place. , Mr; Buchanan gave notice of his resolutions. •- ■

' . ÜbsimieUon&inthe 3leanee River. ' Mr. Dolbel, pursuant to notice, asked—- ■ Whether the Government intend to bring in a Bill this session toprevent obstruction in ' the Mcanee river. ' / Mr. Caebyon gave, notice.that he wotild ask the Government a Question of the samekind, -as nearly, as possible in the same. :WOrds—?.> - ; ; -■•'Whether the Government intend to bring, in a bill this session to prevent obstruction to thie ; Pacific Ocean. ' ■ ■Mr; M‘XjEait said that the matter would be referred to the Provincial Engineer. ; • : ■ Bank of the Tutaekuri. '/ ; Mr. ’ PabsonSj pursuant to notice, asked— 7 l 'J- ' ' ■W'be't'her.it is the intention; of .the Governmenttp take, thenecessary means, (under the advice of;the Provincial Engineer) to prevent the washing ayvay of the hanks of, the Tutaekuri riyerjoitiing road. •

*.; ;JB[is Honoe said that this question, would also be referred to the Provincial Engineer. . ; ~ :On the motion > for adj ournnient, Mr. •Tanner- saidiitwas a . pity .that the Council should adjourn at kalf~past4 when they had made Saturday and Monday sitting -days ; : ';.but as- there was ho; more .business for the day the Council: adjourned. • Friday; jiine:.26.; ' ;.\j/. •The 'Speaker tobi theychairiatS o’block, F ; V. : . / V : ; llhopes, :ppursuaht t 6 mbtice, moved--;; ..'•••' :' : ;'C For.;.a,.select/committee on the Education ,iiqt.-);.‘Memher^to.consistof > Messes., Ferard; JandVihe. 'movers 1 Report' brought Up On W ed-' •:hesdty;hex't^.5 f Cf;'' : ' ' v " ' ;i: Mr.'. ; .EEirNEnT: seconded Ithei motion, agreedjto. . * - , , Commijbtee of Supply. <_

i' r JrXS-hf.2’y 7 - •,”• ’ JTX; • 7 < y • t:-\s. X CH airm an of the - finance committe e theestimates of 'expenditure, thfrCoimcil -r '.';The estuoiates --were considered in detail.: is^slsß^bsW^EScbSlifelß^b^^Oltjisdi^inc-fil

,/3'/‘Under the head/.6f lary of Harbor rin asteiL>wasv;y6ted at ; the /redueed rate3pf:;i£2o()./ /Ghpiboatman/ai Pending the rcpof fc of the /finance com : .‘mitte.e M sfirvey .departnient,’ ’ thisrportion of the •estimates 3was.ppstp.oneX-1//// ; ■ A;ibhg r dis^ .itemr--‘/Gpuhtry;membersmt/12s^.^j^pei 3 Shtton opposed 9 proportion to " -- province, 5 but it was jultimately chnied b) ■. alaTgemajority;"".j;./, 5 ! /3;Uuder3tbe^hcad(oP ■ ‘ inspector of Sliee] fcxneht,,\vthe ot ;SubAhspecto; 3/Wa^:/iX^^^A|®bto/'i^iS.X;t 0 ;£i2o. Th ’remaihclemoftthe estimates were passe< without alteration; after whiphi the Couh "cil adjourned, at a, late hour, tfil. the fol lowing day (Saturday.) • / ' V '' : " SATUR3DAY, JUNE 27. / The Council met at 8 p.m. .. Present, a .themeiubers.. ' 3 3 / / .. ~J Copvpany. Mr. Uombel. nursuant to notice, asked-

What number of sheep' have been slaughtered’ at the Haw fee’s ' 1 Bay Boiling-down station, under the “ Slaughter House /Act ;” andwhether /it lie . Inspector of Slaughter Hbuses has; granted a special license to the manager of the-said Boiling-down station; according to; clause 6 j and if so, .at what date; and if nny person or persons selling sheep or parts,3of.sheep, without’paying the: slaughtering fees, do not commit a breach of the “ Slangiiter House Ordinance.” His Honoe. in reply, said that, thp Inspector had., received, instructions to levy the usual rate on all sheep slaughtered for sale by the company, as they considered it unfair that butchers should be taxed, and the company free. A license under the Act had been issued to them by the Inspector, dated 17 th April. . / . Mr. Tannee asked if the. fee was levied on all the slieep3 slaughtered by tlie company. ... , •' His Honoe said it was only on those brought into town for sale as .meat. Olawis of Militwy Settlers. .

Major Lambekt, pursuant; to notice, -moved— /' ' That his Ilonor the Superintendent do obtain and lay 'upon the (able of this Council the opinion of the Provincial Solicitor on the point raised by the Secretary for Grown lands, vizi,' whether the'provisiona of the “ Auckland Wasle Lands Act 1863;” be applied to the cases of. military-settlers in Hawke’s Cay ; and whether or not in . .tho : - said Provincial Solicitor’s opinion, Capt, Russell has or has not forfeited, his claim as a military Bettler in the province of Hawke’s Bay,- to/the said granfc of land. Mr. McLean" said that; the Provincial Solicitor would he ashed to giye an opinion on this subject. ; ; ,

Delate <yii Provincial Institutions. Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to .notice, moved— , . That the Speaker do leave, the cliair, for the purpose of considering, in Committee of

‘the whole-Council/ the resolution.standing in. his iiame in regard to provincial institutions. . May suggested that the question .would-be- better discussed, in open Council., • ;

Mr. Buchanant did not see, in that,case, ;how; the-necessary, amendments were -to he made." It wasa simpler way of elicifting the opinion; of the Council in ; detail, 1 iand afforded easier, means of; amendment than'xdnp^pP l^ . - v : ' thought that/ as principle had heeh.a^medin'Gouheil,: the’most . orderly course would be tb .epnsidenthe;detahs in committee^:, ;: , : ~ , .^Mr.’Buchanan said .that such subjects were usually: considered in. committee. . -He’ 1 simply jprppbsed this; as a matter of; cohyenience..;’ • -7 • ' ■.. : '7' ; •i ‘

' TEB;AED thought tliatif this subject * was v it yould dc- ' cupy the ; House/until ■ the meeting oftlie (jehei^/^SKaibly; : ; 7 //• :; Mr. /OrMondi /thought "that it: would; occupy 'a 1 comibittee: to this" time "twelyet months.. Hehoped theresolutions would? :j^ jas; he saw no. : j: Major Grpyemment would mot : the House going-into ; committee; The resolutions,: wbre ' hot r veryMong—not a quarter;.the 'length, of those" of :0&' member for; the town (hTf. J Herard)r:who/was apprehensive, perhaps, get j // if thhOoiha-;' cil |iny;Olyed/infah/almbst^eh^esS/cqnTersa-;i

ifftheGbverriment; objected, ; as it was an immaterial point. the idea oPa committee ,'i f^!l^^^^®S^^inbvedir^3id:fi^sjfexesdlu^ S^E^^atith'e^ropnciafesjste^hfts^tttne: }w^K^^ked|tfd€unSa|iStfotprfly4hpKMfei^l iß^jlpl^le^^lfc^^alk^bi^fijeJSommul] ||ii|^^^|s^cQnpma|ui^ld£;«Sh®l4Bipiuua,n^ ? of the-fpjfiheiples Provlnce3?Aot,

/—rThougb hehad frequently-hadioccasion (to condemn' the . working; of provincial institutions, - he -badi never/yet/cbiidemued . them per se.r He 'believed that no other, system would have suited tlie;/,colony ;of ./New Zealand. He'came(into the colony -strongly-prejudiced against them j but in a: residence of’several years/in ; ifc, : he had ; seen fit to alter his opinion. /He had bceu /forced/ ;to admit;; tliat' they Werc good, and he now- believed that. ! tha spirit of een--3 'traiisnii had- done; infinitely; more barm to tlie,colony than; provincialism/much, as ;the/latteribad/. : often: bcen.'misc6nducted. •He .believed tliat tbe errors of Government . in ; itlie/new; provinces . arosk from • their., not/carrying ; out. tlie spirit of the Act :under;/whicli-they were con stifcuted, and he believed that the-Provincial- Councils were as much to blame, as the Government,for then* neglect in this matter. 3 It ’was not liis .purpose to speak on the whole of his resolutions- now ;; he would take them seriatim,. as_ho moved them, 3 for he did not’think that; hy any other way they would receive fair, consideration. He thought all the. members-would agree with the one now before them. 3 The resolution .was then put and affirmed. / ; ..... 3Mr. Eesaex* moved that the / chairman ; do- now report progress,'which.was'nega-’ • tived ou a division. . 1 , Mr.. Buchanan moved the second resolution: —: ‘ ’ " . 2. That, although costly errors of ndministialiou are apparent,, their development and ( growth have arisen j not through,defects inseparable from the. system itself, but rather because, the economical working, of local government being dependent on .tho ; firmness, r political educatiori, and * integrity of '.electors' l when choosing representatives, safeguards are ■ hot provided 1 for the discharge, free from exj traneous bias and pressure, of so gvave : a pubi lie-duty, : -

—His first resolution having affirmed the necessity of .retaining provincial institutions, this one followed the subject more into detail.. Instead ; of perpetually craving for new institutions, the best course would . generally be to see what, errors had been : made in working the old oiies, and to cor--rect them.. We had now the guardianship of the public interests in our own hands ; and we should learn when to refrain Irani expending* money, and not blame the system under which we: were living, for our own inability to say ** No.”. lie believed ‘that' under representative ins titiitions, on however small a scale, the Government would-be a reflex 6f; the people, for as the electors were, so would the. elected be. ; ' Mr.; Feeakd considered that this second resolution: had nothing whatever; to, do with the main Question. ' He thought that if costly errors had occurred in the administration of Government, they were hot likely to occur again. He bid notlike the implied censure to the electors; for-he could not believe that the result, of any election would be aflbeted by extraneous pressurei merit. that the Word costly ”be struck out of the first line. > Mr. ;.Tanneb thought the' proposition ; : ibefore the: committee a; very trivial one. He considered the allusion to the electors hardly a fair one, and-trusted that the resolution^wonldmotpass.- ; - > : ‘ >Maior liambeut could- account for the

obstmctivfeness of the member town-.: No. doubt he : was anxious to '■ bring on his little string of resolutions, : : and thought! their- fatei might" be ' seriously affeetednif: these-were: passed-first. -- = >/ IPeeaed consideredithat the second ,o£:these resolutionsr simply',contradicted ithefirst.; The.first stateathattheprovin'ciali system had Worked' well; the second was a complex statement that it had not iwbrked lwell, besides being equal to ayote of censure on the Council, the G-oyernraent, andvdhe electors. • [No.]i ;■ The costly errorsiof = olditimes were now nearly for-

L gotten ; ::the.‘ G;OTernment lately been well administered, and be:'did not think the Council at all called upon-to. give abstruse philosophical reasons forthewaste and extravagance of former days. He beilieyedtbe.unuecessary'erpehseeofgdyefn? rhent phieflyfipwing:sto tthe-Coimcil play irig ; at iparbamentary ■ praictice, ; ' and'to the “unprepared state of the Government business at the beginning o£ eac&session. He considered .the present 4 resolution an insult to the Council.;;v."•>. J:;:; . ;'was?no .more: drniger of; costly" errors Sarisingi Hehadalreadysaidthathewould • supporttheprovincialsystemiuntil;-some-thing:better;wasv ('substitutedlhutyhe Would;not>vote for.this resolutioh:- ;

p :V AZJJeane fpoulct not; ypteitor : resolution. He gave the electors - credit ■’"- r fpr.more self-rehahce thah in - thejr and'ho! would:;notJ-vote '; Ibuti6ns;iwasimdpubtedj^nt^h! ;tßpughfe ; 0 . r flytoiplliersthat?w !o£”iKHisrHbndr^ads^ - i ; |i^|S^^fe|»^|t'|i ; ; ••,■ y,pfiWhich

- would ialLmore on our'children than our- . selves. 'He heV.could r'i:support -the resolution;'but he'thought' 'ithpse errors would hot he likely to v again joccur. * * . { ' ,/Mt.\Tannee could not agree -with the f-ideafthatieither/the; electors;, or >memhersi

?of. Councibwere -biassed: He''thought -be hrbiight the eleetors|; and; "thought-^ -be desirable. . \ < r could not sce that; the voteof .censure to :;-vie%p£;tliegdvem ~ ciist any; Goveiriiment, : past for present.. .: As/for pressurecat selections’, ?.-;heibelieyed.ifchadVul^y^® e h se dj' a pd ; ; always\vouldbeused,tlTbiigh4t_mightßb 'icheclced'toagrcatcxtcntbyimproved .legislation. ;: : si?:'*4'’//.'•JviLi' would'beobliged/to vote not believe; v : the;mpyer intendcditas a want- of 'confidence, but from : vrhat followed in : the s other: resolutions', he members should";.;examine this, one in connection .with them/ arid not vote upon a superficial view. :s' • ‘ ;.. 'Mr. Buchanan could not see that there - was no danger of misappropriation in the future/and it was to the future that his resolution had distinct reference. To strike out vthis- resolution would be to seriously Injure the whole series. Major Llmbeut could not-agree with the membebforN apier that it was useless to - * look ; back "at past extravagance/ He thought it not only useful,, but necessary, : as showing hOw to guard against the same . errors in future. : He was# not aware to what extent undue influence might be brought to bear upon electors, but thought - Ihat a;aditional. precaution in that direction could do no harm. He would support the resolution/ . •/; Mr. A’Deane had to thank the member / yrhd had directed his attention to .the subsequent Resolutions : :He found that this one was intimately connected with the / fifth,, and. that if they, passed it they would ' hayetaken a, step towards aifirming a prin-. ' hiple which he, a Tory by birth andeduca- ' tiqn, could;riever give his assent to. He had always looked/upon the; ballot as a beautiful principle, but utterly impracticable, system which he should like ;to see/the world fit : to. have. . All - history proyed theT impraeticability of .any such scheme; If the electorswere-biassed in Mo other .way/ they; would be led?‘by men of strong opinions who happened to be popular. they consiaered how few of. the large constituency of Napier had ’Oyer- voted—-hoW few would leave their business/foR half-an-honrtoexercisetheir electoral: priyilege~-they : could see; that ■ the people were unfitted for it./ * He could : not‘ approve of knocking down lpngrestab//Kshed/principles/ unless they could be sure df Supplying better ones in their place..

r /ii3jieut;-Cdl&iiefl?'WHiTMoEE: thought the: - : ?r Qpimcil v .]^oiild : .fihd.Biit;sligiit advantage; in • > subjects, as their: opifrom: the fate of previous, recommendations, would have little:weight He could isee no advantage in alteringthe law of the. ; land, xmless somethihg better was substi--..jtuted.^• •.r t ' ,: : ••••' • : •' : : ; 4 sMiajor -LAMBhEX,thbught(itlwa.s.thewish. 'oftbe,whble:prbvince.;m Gouncil. Se:hhd:tKought,tiUhe>heard''4he -speech - bfi -theginexiiber for Hampden;Vihat;:^ ;> v-Eories vrerean extinctbody,: and thatltheir. placeshadj-beensuppliedbypeoplecalling . such names as -“ Liberal Goh-. . servativeSv iHe supposed, :however, that ! . :they had all; left England; and bnly iih§ereddh such parts of Jealandi fHe would-suppbrt this resolu- ' so. . -he was engaging tb suppbrfc the one - pro-.

by ballot. .! i S ;; . I (ques*i - 'tionilsfeemed r w^ < at.electiqiis; _ were (shfficient.;; ;Ifc : was-dndeniaHe tliat a .. -governmentyidthbirge sums of; moheyiat . have a -great influence; inade-quatW^^Ehe-Waiiba. had;( " offered.; .-^o^there^ in^tlib^ppe^]iQiisq> iwiihtaslitti^wa^^ 'iproranceS^iS^J:.yVS;?%-;:-tionif the ; word ** costly ’* were omitted., - - '??%*#&

iidba‘of:tlie: i wprd' , - M ;n6t-Vafter: ; -f* arisen” in the third litief and its insertion after - the word “ defects,” also that all the' words

after “ itself,” in the fourth line, be struck : out. He thought Members; could easily see that this resolution was intendedyto ihserithetlnnendo^ iinehfeof^the mehiber ofadministra- j ' tion” : sufficient safeguards at elections.’ : :^ieuK-G6l;/‘^iCTM6BB ; \toulcV propose that the' consideration of. this'' clause be pbstppnefeili ; after the fifth, from which it was evidently inseparable. . ; Mr.B DCHANAur r said that this , was. a

proposition, and that to defer it till after tHe fifth deprivo tlie series Of aiy, logical consistency. ; . 5 The amendment was; negatived/On a, division, and on tlie motion of Ijieut.-Col. Whithoee, the chairman reported progress.- __ ’ A point of order raised by. the. member for Wairoa was. disposed of ; the Speaker left the chair, and ;the‘house went in-* to committee on the resolutions.; : J After some discussion; the. second resolution was put and negatived on. the following division i—r, . - s \ Ayes, 9 Messrs. Tifleh, Dolbel; M‘Lean, Ferard, Ormond, Kennedy, Paiv sonsi "Whitmore, A’Dea.ne: ■; JN’oes, 6—-Messrs. Buchanan, Carlyon, Lambert, Tanner, Sutton, Weston; Mr. Bttchakab’ moved the the third resolution— . 3. That territorial dismemberment, or division, .of tliis province, while the population, .as at! present,’ is lew and scattered, would wideru the area foradmiuistrativeextrava-

gance, ana render its tmraen still more oppressive. ;• ; ; —He believed that no one in the Council would question the truth of this resolution; he believed they were all as much opposed to the dismemberment of the province as He was. * Mr. Tiffen proposed that the word “ expenditure” should be substituted for “ extravagance.” Mr. Buchanan could not agree to this alteration. Lieut.-Col. Whitmore thought it might probably be better for the province if it, was divided into two counties. The northern district had never had fair play. Mr. Buchanan said that the proposed alteration, which would make the resolution state. that division of the province would widen the area of expenditure, would simply make the resolution meaningless. Mr. -Bebard would not object to- the resolution if the words - “ complete admi- , nistrative” were inserted after the word “ or” in the first line. He did not, however, think the expression “ widen, the area” correct as the resolution stood. Y

Mr.- BtrcHAKAN saw that the expression referred to was : susceptible of improvement. With the leave.- of the committee he would substitute the words V extend the facilities” for “ widen the area.’’ ‘ ,'Heopposed the addition of the v words “ complete administrative,” as having .the effect of hampering the clause. . ' ' ; Major Lambbbt : did not think the words proposed by the member for the town mat-, tered a straw. It was no ■ wonder that the member for Wairoa would like the pro-’ fmhce to -be divided into North and S6uth. It wonldj no doubts suit him y ety well to' be dictator of the northern district. : . Mr. Tannee ; would support thb resolutionKHe believed .that if the province weredividedihtdshiresjthem class agiiihst- class wohld be much move stronglyfelfc,andtheminoriiywouldhave to submit to the inffiction of: heavy burdens. He believed alsp tMt: it’ was-, advantageous as regards works: .that the province should remain undivided. > Mr. Ferard’s amendment was ; agreed to on .’a'di^sion^

end at. the .clansej pi tne *£but ■ thatV'in; soine|matters|mor6fdiepfe; . Mr. Buchanan, said that this explained 'the meaning' of amendment .c;Tlie iueinber^for:^ was eyidently divisioiour v." '.\ri r ■ saidthat^ be gathered from his , own which had been before .the Council. some time. He wished to avoid.-centralisni; as jnueKTaS:^ iocjuia-

' Mr* BuckANAif said, that if;tliis clause, ; ,was „added td y the.','rpsoluti6h^its/AwlM)le.. ! asawte«#BagitetaßiaSteß^^ , * 'Z. , l r . ■ ■* >

Council would not stultify itself by Stating tbatldcjQadmim^ There was nothing in tlie resolution in its qnginal Hiappp^ was not ready for.systemsbH^ parts of the ; country it would "be. found quite irnpoasible' to - form a road board; \ ; >Mr. these amendments touched ground ;quite distinct from , the spir it of the resolution . He did not see the use. Of this ne;w matter. 'There was 'nothing in to prevent 1 local hoards. It left the matter perfectly free -; and he could not see any advantage in these additions. The amendment was then negatived, r and the resolution, as amended, agreed to. The committee then adjourned till half-, past 7. ’ / 7v ' . The committee met at half-past 7, when

Mr. Bu'cela.nan mored tlie ' fourth resolu-' tion, viz : r 4. That the improvements it may. reasonably he acknowledged the system needs, should not take the,shape of organic change, and had best be'limited to judicious restric,tionson ’the power of legislation, to altera- ’ tions in the mode of election of councillors, and vto the enactment of laws making the present insufficient checks upon financial maladministration,.more speedy in action and •punitive in effect. Mr. Tiffbjt moved the omission of all the words after “ legislation,” in the fifth line.; He said lie was a large employer of labor, and had’ never attempted to influence the votes of' those in his employment.; He did not believe that any sys-, tem of coercion existed, and.considered the

present checks-amply sufficient. Mr. Buchanan said that it -was evident that on the words now songht to be ad-

mitted'hinged the whole force of tlie resolutions, anctthat "without them they would be simply meaningless. He would divide against the amendment. After some discussion, the amendment was put and curried on the following divisiont; Ayes, 7—Messrs.' Parsons, Dolbel, Ferard, Ormond, Kennedy, Tiffen, M‘Lean. Noes, 7—Messrs. Tanner, Bambert, Buchanan, A’Deane, "Weston, Sutton, Locke. : -. The chairman gave his casting vote with the ayes ; the amendment, therefore, was agreed to. Mr. Buchan ait said he would now abandon the. resolutions. Thus emascu-. lated, they were of no use. ■Mr. did not think the member could abandon his resolutions. At any rate he ought not to do soseveral had been carried, and they had given the house, a great deal of trouble.. V . The Chairman-reported progress, and . the Speaker resumed the chair. Aiw&wr seri&xof Resolutions., Mr: Eebaed, before moving the resolu-’

tions standing in his name on tlie subject of provincial institutions, asked the leave of the Council.to withdraw all but the last of the series, referring to improvements in - the.present mode of transacting business. ." Major Lajubebt .opposed the withdrawal.'. . ... . V . Mr. BtrcHANAN also objected, He thought the whole question should be," summarily disposed of. ’ _ ; Mr. : Hebaed then moved the resolutions : in an elucidatory speech of about equal; length. . \, ' . ■; f ' \. t ' 4 Mr; ; SimoN seconded the motion. r 4 : 1 Mr; !BtrcHANAN could not - but admire the ; industry of • the member for the town, 'who appeared-tb have'studied every systemof government from Plato’s Pepublieto tlie Code Napoleon. His (Mri Buchanan’s) :mind was ; iitterly mcapable of contemplatihgj far less "studying, the system,- and yeti ther movers the Council/ at/ oheeto; bolt- a mass thatwOuld exceed even the digestion of an ostrich. - The member for the-town appeared very deftly •. t 6 have effected the duties of ahousemaia, andhhcouH^^ withwhich thatgentlemanhadsweptdoiyn : the cobwebs; apd,; killed- the spiders, and (haughterl): ;■ He: seemed-to be a kind of " /attempting to “ cl’ar de kitchen with a bfan new broom.” He would emuherate .some of the varied departments which ? were to ; r: bf resplutidhs. Eirst, there 'were legisla-

-tiv e Jphahges in the courts; ofsummary priation of public funds, then, 'the crown land, andsurvey departments, followed by. "centralpenal establishThents-and: common |&Mu^l^of|^eiiic&^ahdß^^an^iio^ r pnblicdfoiises^eeeiyedannmtepttentiom; f "iSi s, S , ’''h^^' ii l)se" ;I "'ed^ : i'"^s a 'tt<Mh r '"' ; 'ahd PSlll r ° a^*

schools, v hospitals,, courthouses/ and, thmigk.we lad but one poor library?in ; also. Suggestions: whiphtheniover oi these resolutipns liad girbn subjeetj he ;;cpuld not, helphotrcinowhfit appeared; to him to be a : very hotable omission, l and this,-too, 1 upona yery; grave apd serious subjecthe could mot ac- . - count for its absence in any other manner than that, perhaps, the member “or the town meant to provide for it in. his grand ' scheme of standing ruies and orders—he ;alluded to the:striding fact that there was ;/ ro^ ul - fon the social evil (roars °i t®) • thought that this series ot resolutions could only be dealt Tvithdn * ■ one way, and that was by tlie.'amehdment / ot, the previous Question, .which he'would l ' •; now move:' •.’■ ' ; ... _ . The Speaker read, for the guidance of members,#ie portion; of Kay’s Practice Parliament „• relating ' to.*the' previous question, after which, he put the amendment, which was ncgutived oß.ji division. The resolutions were accordingly shelved. Want of Confidence. Mr.. Cablysn, pursuant to notice, moved— ' . That this,Council has no confidence in an Executive Ministry which comprises the member for Pprangahau. —He confidently.expected the support of the Council, to this motion. On the recent question of confidence which had arisen, member after member had expressed themost perfect confidence in the. Super- - intendent; but it. became perfectly clear

that they had none in the Executive. On that occasion Members had- expressed themselves, as.feeling that.they were being dragged through all; kinds of dirt and mire, by the member for Porangahan, and he thought they should no longer submit to such degradation. He strongly objected to the Superintendent identifying himself as he had ; done -with' the two'"'or three members forming the Executive, -as it reduced his position to that of the leader of a party, instead of the independenthead of the Council. On a recent occasion he had .remarked that the whole of the~business of the City of London was managed without ,an Executive, and the member for Porangahau said: that, if this was all he knew, on" the subject he was miserably ignorant, and, not; content with thus, had called him an old woman. He -wished to Iniow who the member for Po;rangahau was, and what were, his. abili- t ties. ' He had felt sorry, almost disgusted, at the fulsome eulogy passed by his Honor oh the Executive. The member for Poranga,hau. :ha<i;-been in the -Executive ever since the time when the pfoyince had large funds and; rich endowments. ;In what position was .it now ? aiid who was mainly responsible for that .position ? If money had been wasted in the harbor, the member for Porangahan, ; was.

the solecause,-—if it had beemfthrown away at Eparaima, he was also tbe ; sole cause, and for liim to: call, ah independent member of Council. an old woman ; was going too far. BCe (Mr. rC.y. had a great respect for old.women, andhethpughtone df them could 'dd more good. on the Trea- ‘ sury bench than, the member of ' whbm he . was speakihgi and who was now ahseiit. From, his experience! of . that xhember "he had fonnd him tive,:insc»lent, fahty it; would take the whole of the slang; dictionaryto describe:his ifeeiings^ey; .gar^gthatg^ "jfehpr'heulogyps:.^; ,/V'//;i; r ;7-v/; V ; -V. • . Mr. Westok secphded the motion; r i ■ Mir. Buchanan said that the 'member for TeAute feelings, and he would ask; him 'to 'obtain permission to withdraw his motion//‘The - ‘Cpuhcir.hhd/aheady^pieditCstrehgtE^with! and he tboughtthat,riow the moyer of the SUestion before . the house had had- his ing atthe/ he " .hadbe^OT^let^hi^-r^st^m.'pj^cp;.-^' 1 /,// his / motion without/,lthe ; consent /rpjf 7the Council. : ■<>-;‘V ''' / /The 'mqfipn.wM/pnl^i^d/hegdtLve.^.j;-;

. . Major moved — < *) y j THat :his yHonor^the^apdmti^mt^i^iUi tHepurpoßebf'diatrib^ —He tliough.t : that: it would gctod in the hands of Inspector, wio| He ;i)e*;; 'peyedi|was:oor^era^|.^sii:^S|3r4^^ey fcordslnp jtheißistop,' too, w;pnld,bea:ygry Mr. PAESONslseconded dke^motioo^^ lin^njaenJ^^ar^^l^a^ejMUaßpr^ri^ IS