PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Weekly Times, Volume 2, Issue 79, 13 July 1868, Page 1 (Supplement)

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

;;;*TFESDAY*‘JIJNE -.23;"' ’ r ' : '; ' yit^nt^u^oa^ofdebate onMr. Eerard siresolutoons;); liihe^stUpeaker^fMr.^ *j was -.lOßEe j believed■ that the j at such ah unheard-of siimras ; £2iOpOiyer annnwi. >’\Nelsonwasnot - afair 4?©saiilrplejiffls Nelson s was a ; this was a poor fromthe speech fttookia'high Irehgious viewof'theduty of :' -education.|P.T - hat ;|ivieWtbut itWas not his own. : ; '-Hethought : religious duty head iihetteribe left - alone;: 1 There ; - was T no , dbr the idea. 7 If it was a* sacred ; duly to teach children tO ' read andwritej v i>it wastdso-'a sacred-duty to see that, the imoney-bfthe publiewashot wasted; and bethought that when there was only £BOC 7.' available for roads and bridges during the : year,;-Jit would ;be monstrous to spend Vmore than twice as much on education. He only wished that the province was in s • position to afford the money. He though! -that'one or ■ two good schools should be . established in central parts of the province and that those who lived in outlying dis -tricts 'should send their children to them -XU xl. ~—— ‘iv _;1 J __ —X. iUr.Mil 'i.A ’ ti ll n 4-Un

-It. they could not mtord to do tins tne Lto- ; • vernment should provide for their education. He thought the suggestion about ; . the Bbmah Catholics was a just one, and - all denominations acted as well in this respect as they did, there .would not 'be such questions about education endowments: The funds required to support such schools: as he had suggested would be -nioderatej and he thought that not more than' five orsix would be - required. His . idea was that if there was a poll tax, both sexes should pay. :He had heard a great ;doal of -nonsense talked about the poor man-; hut the poor man here was a very -different person from the poor man in jShigland. He was -simply, one who: was •nnaer-the unpleasant necessity of working ; for others, and was very seldom unable to provide himself with either necessaries or .Comforts. ’He had known several cases of •greatgricvance among these men, where -they; had to work one ‘ day; more in: the . week than they had. been accustomed to, jinstCadcf drinking. ' He lisid no sympathy -for the poor man .who considered it a hard- , •ship that he could not waste a day or two; •eachweek in thepublic-house. He did; mot think that those who really paid ; school fees;, would grumble about the rate; it. was only the profligate and -lazy Iwho would - complain. He . ob- ' jectedto ahouse tax, as single- men who " were :not householders! derived as much indirect-benefit from education as others. Hc thought there were too many, schools; - and should like to see tbenuinber reduced • to ffve or six; and-a poll-tax on every iuan and ; woman in the province. Mr. CJkBtTpN thought that the member for Napier shodld have brought his resolutions tip in the form of a bill. The first , • thatj>it; 5 ’ thaf'all should be educated; was : a mere axiom—-there were:

- UUUUUttvU) wao,; a> tuviv a.vium ujavlv »» v*v. ■ a fchmgs equally desirable. criminal and desfcitute:;ctiddrfen;should"be provided for; .. arid, above all things, it was desirable that we:lshouhL have. a lunatic asylum. This questionofeducationwas one -that - had ••• dEngiandrit .engaged the: attention’of such ’ menfus laowe and Gladstone, and when-ever-dt.:ha;d been. ; attempted by ; ririhor s,' siatesmeri 4hey-:had a bogi from 3«ba±e oft unutterable -despair *bf ever doing , ariyibihg-in thcfmatter. Ifiwe looked thehaations of worldwe: should find’thebestsysteiriof-educatiouinPrus--Bia; ; The second, perhaps, was the German sy&temy vand, third, : the American: If we looked fovErigland we would find that ;she^had;fther worst of all. - (Hear,' hear.) I'or-usto attempt tq imitate, the English system would be- like giving the an; old ( ]ady;,o£ eight centuries to w and thoughtless and improyident daughter of •twenty-one. /' In -England Stwooutpf •eve^three? - criminals signitheir name ; and, exclttding v L i?dphlalapn^tlm v i^^ ' was»s<|;b^h£thaticcH *- r whim^hdftbc^pied^he^ritt^fipfe'ahd s • V-lbe^euld|haye t ; : ; e^fseh^e4^^|v? ; |

u«<Mt.:sVood said that the going {into; ashor thill, iml- > 1 whichto beadministered on gbhfepresent systeim.Thbquestibnof cidtv. -If; the; Council^.expressed Itself 'as xeady ;tp would dobisbest to assist if Otherwise,• it was; simple waste- ;of (time. to discuss theiresolutions. In - those resolutions," which had been .there;wastknuch, to. approve, and; a good deal that. was ob--I’ectionabl e;: but he did hot think the time lad arrived for discussing them clause by clause. He would rather—and in this he was supported by., .the clergyman of his own -as well as of another religious denomination —that a temporary measure should be passed this, session, and. that the Superintendent should be .requested to appoint a commission, with instructions to COTisider. the subject in all its bearings during the recess, collect information, and. ascertain, by whatever means they might judge best, the; opinions of those most inj terested in education and most capable of making suggestions, of .value with.regard to it. The conclusions at commission, might arrive, to form the basis of a new comprehensive Education Act; which should be prepared and printed two or three months before next session of Council. . : - • Mr. M‘Lexn - said that this was no party, question. The necessity of taxation for educational purposes was generally admitted, as.the .G-overnmenthad not funds for. these: purposes : and the Government bill had been brought forward with a view to elicit the opinion of the,. Council on the subject. The Government were very much indebted to the member for (Napier for;tke attention he had given to the subject, and were' glad 1 that there was a : member in the Council who took so much interest in the matter. The Government would be disposed to refer the whole to a committee who could obtain the necessary evidence ; and would carry on the existing scheme, till a better measure could be elaborated during the recess.

Mr. Feraed said that the. member for ; Te Aute had laughed a,t his ideas of rough, justice in a household rate ; but all the objections that gentleman had made to it were: equally applicable to that gentleman s selieme of a poll-tax, with the additional one of its being.much more difficult to collect.: : He would now leave his resolutions to their fate, after having done what he could on the subject. • The resolutions were then adopted formally, and the Council adjourned at halfpast 10.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 24. j The Council met :at 3 p.m. i Toll-gate Act. Mr. Wood, pursuant to notice, moved— That in the opinion of this Council, the annual payment for which, under clause 10 of the Toll-gate Act, .persons may compound for the fight of passing through the Toll-gate,] should he as follows

For every horse,"ass, or mule. ... £3 10 For every dray, cart,. or other vehicle drawn by one horse £5 0 . .For every dray, cart, or other ' ■ vehicle drawn by two horßes £7 10 -—He said that this matter concerned more immediately. two classes persons who came daily to town with: milk and. other farm produce, and persons who (an increasing class); lived -out of town and drove or rode in and out daily. According, to present rates, a horse coming through daily paid £9 2s. 6d. per annum ; a cart and one horse,. £lB 55.; and a cart and' two horses, £27. 7s. 6d.—enormous charges, especially when the other taxation to which such persons were liable, were considered. One of.those charges, it was true, could be compounded for—that for, a horse and: cart—at £lO per annum; but even that was,far too high. The other classes had not the privilege at all, which he thought, a strange anomaly. He proposed, that all should., have the right to compound, and the xate to be calculated on a much lower basis: Such alteration would not, he was persuaded, in any way affect the revenue, for it would encourage ?travelling, instead of unduly restricting it, ‘while it would ;be, no more than an?act. .of * simple, justice; : those concerned. / • : V Slrl Sutton seconded the imotioni ; - mioipbvrdr’..to LmentjJitcpuldon^ [pTOposed^tewulffrnptbAmry ; imprbver; ;ment : ' perspn ihight haye to; pass- diiyhoisseback ;siecurepeifect&emption:.w ; for the tenders for, and if any take it *tlng aiiaftoro I twpvM Jffe tKp,u^t:-:>tlie' we the receipts

If ! ;mcrfeasm T^: jbh.e r ; traffic;' V"'H e' principle'was good, compound •fdrttbeifdailyfp^ :be;allowed tLe- samej privilege. » hr- >J / tom; should be adopted?; to leave xnatters of• Arrangement to tlie^discrbtionbftbe : toll-keeper. : ; ■' Mr: ATleane : agreed: huth the ' last speaker. /He thought the toll-keeper the bbst;qualified to assess-the rate' at which - differentpersons might cbmpbund for. the •regular toll. : r':?'.. ■ • " Sutton could certainly not approve of leaving the fees to the caprice of the toll-keeper. In England, ; so far as:his experience went, quite a different system was adopted. In the part of the country from which he came the gates were let for long terms of seven or ten years and it was not at all likely that the tqlhkeeper would make an arrangement reducing -his receipts, when the benefit was all on the other side. He thought the annual rates proposed in the motion j very fair, and not at all too low. . i-Mr. Feeaed agreed with the last speaker.that it; would quite defeat their-pur-pose to leave this mattehto the toll-keeper. He would certainly refuse to make am arrangement which would not be productive of benefit to himself. He considered that no‘power was given in "the Toll-gate act to make, any such alteration, and that nothing short of an amendment act could effect this object. He observed the sums for which it was proposed to compound for the usual fees did. not bear the same proportion to each other as those fees, and he-thought it ought to have been so arranged that they should. • Mr. Tannee said that the matter was now, under the Act, entirely in the hands of the Superintendent, and he did not think it should be taken from him. Mr- M‘Lean thought that the effect of this resolution would be to re-open the whole • question. The matter had better be allowed to rest. Mr. Wood said that he considered the present arrangement to be inadequate, and that, if the feeling of the. Council was with him in this respect, he should follow up his resolution’- by a Bill. There were still .three or four days before the end of the financial year, which would be plenty of time for the alteration so far as tenderers were concerned. As to the change affecting the revenue, he did not think this would be the case. There were many people -who would live out:.of town; but they could not afford to pay sucKa tax as _the present. He was satisfied that he was asking, for a simple act of justice from the Government. He could not agree with the member for Napier who had said that such arrangements should be left to the toll-keeper, as if that person should fail to meet his engagements, which was very possible when such a sum as £1,500 per annum was expected from the gate, the persons compounding with him would be placed in a very awkward predicament: He disclaimed any intention of taking Eower out of the Superintendent’s hands, at simply wished to give him larger powers, with the view of acting, justly and avoiding oppression. The motion was negatived. Repeal'of Executive Acts* Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to notice, moved— . Eor leave to introduce a Bill to repeal the Executive Ordinances. * -—ln investigating this subject he had found, somlewhat to his surprise, that the New Provinces Act contained not only the germ of municipal institutions; but it,was evidently ; and plainly its intention that the new provinces should be municipalities, and not exercise the functions of the older provinces. He would read the 11th clauseof tbe-Act, which showed that the Superintendent was intended to be the Speaker Or President of the Council; and he denied that an Executive was at all necessary : 'ln the older provinces, where the Superintendent had not a seat in the Council, it was necessary to have some one to represent : him, wlio must be acquainted with his views, andin some degree responsible; buthere nq such- system could apply. The first Executive, Act of this Province was passed in 1859, and was copied from ah old Wellirig- . ton Act. . ' After this province was sepaj rated from Wellington, the Council ' ap- ! peafed to think it necessary to .take province as a model, and foliow it in every. : particular; like tKe Chinese tailbr,'wlio put lai patch oh the clothes he made, because ‘there was one in those whichhad beeh given ; liinfas a ; pattern.: There \w ere, no'doubt, f membersatpresentiri.theCbuxicilivh'obe- ! lohgedtciifat the time when this Act: was ; i with, the Council would have taken the (first iloomingin-thedistaheeftheywquld’he; jtvhlkirvgpih-conformity with =the': v settled ! policy-of the New Zealand Government;; iand,lie believed, carrying out the.wishes lffe^qSd|bhK.%he^last'-iw^p^sent'i^d/^HL(|irl set : terms that;they, were- responsible merely for thqihf^c^mu

adyice ; and wli'eii' asked for. a; record of their proceedings r had Je£used; jtq’; state he ;had received;.this reply he had remarked upon tlie r extraordinary position occupied by the a ; body should not keep {ihiiiutes .of, its ceedings when its action s. ■ had involved loss; of property' to a great extent, and even of life; ; He wished; how to know if the

Council were to.submit to;haye, their : time wasted and to be dragooned any longer, by the' member for Porangahau-. . Little,-Us he approved of that. gentleman’s actions, he could not help admiring, him, for , .he loved a bold opponent. He did not think, from the manner in which: that gentleman and the other - members, of the Executive

had used their power, that they. w;ere prpperly qualified to hold so much in their hands. When lie reflected upon the. scene which had; lately taken, place in that, room, he thought what a subjectiit would be for a colonial Punch—Doctor Ormond admi-

nistering ; brimstone ; and treacle’, jto the

members on liis (Mr. B.’s) right, and tapping those at his left over the, head with the spoon. There were sdmememhers who had not submitted to that operation-. so quietly as that gentleman might .have wished, and' he thought that, in the motion : he was bringing before the House he : was affording them an opportunity of giving public expression to their ideas -on the subject of the Executive, and of. escaping from a very awkward position. He thought he had made. it sufficiently ; apparent that there was no legal necessity for, an Executive, and he did not know that they were necessary in any other way. The business of the province was not so complicated as .to need more than the Superintendent at the head of its affairs, of course assisted by his legal adviser ; and he. trusted that the members would all unite in removing the. incubus of an Executive .from their shoulders. Let the Superintendent be guided by the majority of the Council, and not by , a triumvirate gathered.,in a. united band, to dictate to the Superintendent or Council what they were to do. Mr. W eston seconded the motion.

Mr. Tanneb said tliafc if he bered rightly, the Executive Act was passed at a time when the Superintendent did not possess the perfect . confidence of the Council; and was designed to -control his actions. There' was no longer- this necessity,—on the question of confidence in his Honor there would not be a dissentient woice; but he thought the Executive might very well be dispensed with, and that tinder present circumstances that was the best course; the Council could adopt. He. scarcely thought it right to ask/them for their records when they ; disowned responsibility. Were they. Responsible Ministers, holding paid offices, the.; question might have been a fair one,; but.-he did -not think, in the position they occupied, that they were 'at all bound to keep a iiiinute-book. . The Executive should either be made a reality or dope away with altogether,; for his, own part he would prefer to see them a reality, but as this was not likely to come to-pass,. he felt disposed to support the motion of the | member for the Country District.;Mr. Ormond said that the.question before the Council was a very proper one, and well worthy of their attention. The member for the Country District was quite' right in saying that an Executive was not required -by the Hew Provinces Act ; and in'fact they, were not necessary in the old provinces either. The Councils had fouiid it difficulty to conduct their business without some one in. their midst to. represent, the Superintendent,, and ac-. cordingly they had appointed an Executive ; but in all these, cases the Executive were paid - officers, and directly responsible for the actions of the Government. They were prepared to conduct the - business of the province to , which they v be- u longed as long as they possessed.;the confidence of the Council; and to change' places with gentlemen on the opposite side on an' adverse dent being simply Ihe administrative; pflb cer of the province. These Executive Governments had.! frequently exercised. ' their powers hurtfully to the interests ; qf their province, as might be noticed, in , the serious dead-locks,, caused, by the clashing of power of the Executive,amf Council.. • The object of the’New Provinces Act; was to rednee the powers of ! the , Provincial Governments,' .and,: by concentrating; the: ; remaining powers in a smaller /compass* to render tbem less ofa sham. Their ob- , ject the. Superintendent i f a ~seaf in tbe Coiuicil was, as" had berii said>, ,td |; reducefiiein foakindofbqa^^ /tfoeoldpiorincesV^T^ beenaldneimltakingtheoppqsite-’ebuTse.: !Busiijess,!im a nearly, aspos-, ibstd|seeif;M^^ simple. ' He could not now support the iide^Of; the; Counl^; Dis-‘ ! - of

- things he: proposed t would;not -be preferableto the present s'*l)ut that;: considering! ■,;'' of/exe^^^ •;' trict~i& / ’ he' took4thSnt dovni: afethe'iime^had^ai3L? ; /,\ t]he/;3SxecutavQ:iiadlde^iareii^KaiiitHe^; - m '.■,f.'shap'e%r^tmfair/as no : made ■ vthat V ’ He/ (Mr; •; ,0.) -fcadi/overi - oye£;agam! 4 .admitteci.: ahJ?amount;,of resppnsihmty-.jiii measures ;- : biifeas and every-day "■_:'. matters*of Government, they nved too fsi frpm 'towh to advise: the. Superinteiideht^^depTddnotthereforehehcldre- ■ sponsible them. He had never said ;ihaii i had, never : Superintendent as bemginbre than inn responsible fortheactidn of '■ the andhethoughtthatunder '‘the cireu&staiices, position they took. For himself and his ’ coneagTieSj they might possibly findthemselves in‘a minority' on this question;' but : he: would remind the Council, that 'in con-; ; idehunng the Executive they would also " condemn the Superintendent, for he : was ■ part and parbel of the Government, and to shy that s he was separable from the Execu- ! He would now take' ;up the : inam question. ;If by the : vote 1 of' the'Council the present Goyernmenf were to fose their seats, the/Cbuneil WoMd fLnd . difficulty in supplying their" places: They must either' have a Govern-' r merit composed entirely of town members, , ; or provide 'country ones with an' eruolu;ment equivalent to their loss of time, and the Province had certainly not sufficient means to do this. He would say that if this f vote was carried, the Council: would: have' taken, a very nice way to removehimself and his colleagues from a Very troublesome position. He was 'to have to allude to certain charges, principally of petulance, that had’been brought against nim:j v He ;could ohly : say that it was very unfair to single hun out from his colleagues for attabk in a ease, of this kind. : He found that every member of the Executive had come to the same .coin'clusion as himself bn the vote for a, finance compiitteevbeing passed,, and that they were all equally determined with himself to make; it a Government question. It was not right for the Council to treat him as if his reisponability was hot shared by his colleagues/

.Lieut.-Col. W hitmoee, in a long speech, said that lie did not think provincial institutions were any nearer 1 their end than they were last year. In reference to the question' before the house, if the Superintendent were to say that" he had taken office on the'Understanding that -he might retain Executive, he would consider it a breach of-faith to do away with them; but if this was not the cS.se, he did not consider the Council bound to retain them; / r ; MivEebabd agreed that it was time that the present system was abolished. He would, advocate a standing committee, appomted by the Council, in place of the Execiitive. ' Mr. Hhodes-said that several members had spoken of a board in preference to the Provincial Council; j 'df the SiiperihtC ocCupy the chair-as President, thehumberofmembersshould bebeducedtofive, for he could not see how any man could" exist in. that s position among eighteen members.. [Laughter;]■ A. : member, he believed the member 1 for Wairoa, had complained of the the previous week as a breach of decorum. 'He thought it had already been siifficienthr explained that this delay arose entirely' nroin 'the visit Of his Excellency the Governor. explainedthat he complained of the: secrecy that had been observed by/tlie Government in this mat? ■r ter. The statements made by theGovernr , ment causedthemost'intensesurjprise.to thememberSjWho, hadhosuspiciori.that the motion was at all in effect like that of last'ryefari??' - "?'' I '?' J mustdeby - ber j ; forlPorahgsdiau '.wanifr^any^way-'U .nmin' : inbvei??m'’'^^cdifrse ; v^e;: ! jGF6yetp? . ment had - : hisopimoh?ahd'hk^ . ■, l veralihemberkcht&detl^ :"3 : tPhre^tffrbm;^^ ‘ what was nion." painful''sia^gle|'l^^een'^s^se^pj||c i j • * , . 'cial?ipstiVhWonW\i^tMiiS^s^.^^|^>e^ir - now as^next^year^but 1 he f woul^not,!^

to see system" altogether abo-, iishei.;.|pie^ would prevent a Government assuming, as r •thro^--ixig up "their office when a slight difficulty arQse ; avbtel assuyedlhemwas^ nbfcgiyemln^^ ; . Sutton ; said that: hie should support • IhebnotipnAA^^ ti d h et-very' well di St iCoiihicU^ahd \Oo’u]|cQ;. pleasimt position'in which the ; :Gouncilliad; beenplaced this was - epersonallytothemembersbfVthe-p Executive ;;he-believed they: were: asigood as could be ifound; but he i< would- always consider it: his: duty-toussist in doiqg away with that body. :• v '-< •• ■ . Mr. LoeKE could not apprbve of the suggested scheme. -. lie cases of-emergency might arise*: yrhere .the ad.vice ■of the ,Executive would be absolutely necessary to the Superintendent: Mr. M‘Lean said that long before

j separation, : took place many-people had | suggested fche idea of governing districts . by boards? with - a kind of . President to j hold ; olOce for two years, and .no other ! officers exceptclerks, and surveyors, and one,or two. others. This had never been carried put, and lie could not see the advantage how of a radical.change like the one proposed. : He should not at all like to be deprived of an Executive who had i always worked so cordially, and thought that there was. not time, to test the work-, ihg of a measure of this kind before provincial institutions would ;be done away with. He would vote against the motion. , ' The Council then (6 p.m.) adjourned to; half-past 7.

The Council resumed at half-past 7. Mr. Buchanan spolce in reply. He said that he liad not consulted any person.; on the subject of this motion beforei placing .it before the Council, and the. opinions that members had given on the! subject had therefore been entirely from their own ideas. The idea, of this motion had struck him at the time, that the question of confidence was before the house.: For himself and other members he quite disclaimed any intention of making, a personal attack, on the member, for Porangahau, or either of lxis colleagues ; but he; had brought this question forward on the: broad ground that some change was. desirable in the present sy stem of Government,! and that this would be in the right direction.'; ,H_is!,Honor>.in speaking on the subject had said that this was not the time

for a radical change, and had laid great stress oh, that idea. He did not attempt to initiate any radical change, but simply to; bring, the form of Government of the pro-, yince a little nearer the intention of the law which/wasthe charter of the new provinces before he entered the colony. It was fully in the power of a provincial government to, work economically /if they chose so to do; and he-thought it was their duty to try to: avoid being : split up into petty municipalities. Desirable as he believed self-government always to be, he could nof approve of splitting a small province like tlus into infinitesimal frag-

ments. He wished the province to; be kept intact, and with only such powers withdrawn as it had shown itself unfit to exercise. Ho believed the fault did not He in the constitution, and had only recently read an interesting debate in the Canterbury Provincial Council, when the general wish seemed to be that the constitution of the province. could - be changed to that of the new ones. He could form a pretty good idea that whatever changes might be intended by, the. General, Government, the province would. not profit much by them. They would allow them as much as suited their own convenience, and .nothing more, leaving the provinces to tax themselves for any money they might wish to spend. He would: now allude to two objections that had been made to the motion, one by the member for Porangahau, that in view of approaching, changes in the, whole system it would be useless to make alteration, and the other, that pf one,: of the town members, that nothing was offered in substitution for the ; Executive. With regard to, the first objec-. - tibni it seemed,to be the only real one the : member fpr v Poyangahau had given against : tkouglitthat, a ; diyersityvpf:! ; opihiph.therdwas sM^^^§si^e^3^rey^T^|nph:a|3^ ; pear to be any reason . to suppose that it i |won^^d . : sidered,.too that the .of . the ques-, i vtion rendered |it the more runfair to attempt ; l ■ - ppinipns pfC the Provinces, w.ould not be l i^t^opt^ei^wei^lit^henlthe^C^^dis|: i .sawjno validity or, fprce .in:this pbjection., ahd'itiwas a poor tribute from

(a supporfer tospeakof 'him as if te was plameii that' he htidvspbkeh of emergency.] ’ f, emergency:: should arise; no?;difficulty in calling the 1 Council tbgetherl' ; Hedid i gehcy hade ver the• one ‘ of Omarunui.* The-memberfor Waipukurau • had? said'that the ExeCutive were nbt cOncernedin this matterj ; asthe Superintendent acted merely as General Groyemmentagent. 4 ibr’he ?had seen: some letters phthat subjdct signed bydVEr. M'Lean as i Superintendent, and } iiot as /.General Government agent. He •cOuld not fail to T notice 1 that' the Government had almost-inrited-this’ discussion.

They -had asked the Council to see if a simpler form of Government could be devised, that they might go to the Assembly • armed with the expressed opinion of the Council,' and he thought that although this question-was'not'exactly the same, it was so necessarily connected with the other, as to be scarcely separable fromit. Above all things, Ee thought that feelings of a purely personal kind, whether of friendship or otherwise, should be guarded against in this matter, as it was not fair : to. allow such feelings to influence a vote. The member for Porangahau, in defining the responsibility of the Executive, had drawn a line so fine as to be scarcely perceptible. He had said that he admitted his shjjijre of responsibility in all important Govcimmenkquestions ; but he lived at too great a distance from the town to be consulted upon, or to be responsible for matters of a trivial character. .How, it was precisely upon these trivial and every-day questions, to a greater extent, perhaps, than those apparently of greater moment, that the welfare of the province depended. He believed that if gentlemen really took the matter into consideration, they' would find his scheme to be to the interest of the province. The motion was then put and negatived.

Locm Appropriation Amendment. Mr. Oemond moved the second reading of this Act. He said he must explain that many of the objects for which the loan was originally intended to lie appropriated, had now, from lapse of time or change of circumstances, become unnecessary or undesirable, and that others had arisen in their place; but the money could not be applied to these without a special Act of the Council; and so the* present bill was -brought forward by the Government. The Council would notice,-in the first'instance, that a i great. reduction had been 'made' in the stun appropriated for a' lighthouse for jNapier harbor. The sum had been reduced from £IOOO to £l20 —the Marine

Engineer having reported that for that sum they could obtain a light equal to all their requirements. . The next item he would notice was the appropriation for the purchase of native laudsand he would explain that the Government intended to confine the expenditure to three blocks, and that these would‘all be valuable acquisitions to the province. One was an unpurchased block in the Wairoa district, another, a portion of the 70-mile bush, and the" third, the Hikutoto Block, which had hitherto been held on lease from the native owners. With regard to the 70-mile bush, and to show how bush land became ■ settled, he would refer to the. vahey; of the Wairarapa. That settlement had increased till it now sup-

ported a population of four or five thousand, and, apparently, simply because there was abundance of bush and. water. It had no qualifications beyond those of the 70-mile Bush - it was distant from the centre of Government, and its spil was not of a superior quality, but it had flourished until, it possessed a population approaching that of Hawke’s Bay. The reason seemed to be, and he had noticed the same thing elsewhere, that where there was bush and water men would make a house/ With the next item, main lines of road, he would hot go into detail, simply stating that the lines on which the money was proposed to; bo spent were from Ifapier to the Southern boundary of the Province, the Middle road, West Coast road, and north line to Wairoa. The next item was the harbor wprks. . To thispurpose the Government r had ; originally proposed to devote£2,ooo; but having i saved, as* he-had already' said,' nearly £9OO ; on the lighthouse, they had added this sum to the other, making the 'total for harbor improvements nearly £2,900. This' amount would far tprwards carrying out Mr. Balfpur s scheme, =though it would not •'dov it entirely. :>The. mhlyremainihg’^ cause they -Could -see nb chance in future ;ofprpvidmg^forlthisobject butjpf 'their iS^^h^'rpve^^fltvwaslvei^prbb^l^ rto> iwouldbe pfibourspa ;zation; and hetter fitted than tbe Govem|&h&^Oib,^yiS^h|hhde^ils:?/p9.^^^|3al datepemdo^ • grants"hadfallen. into arrear mththeirre:payfiaehts ;y but, cbnsidering circumnot considered, that it would be’'fair to re-

sort to pressure.. 'Matters of this kind would be far better controlled by a board than. should be,;, deyoted-■,to; a;; lunatic . asylum.It was a! shame * t!hat madness should he treated as a cximel ahd unfortunate Idniar tics %ept jMfv withn He would propose tnat a wing ,sh6uld.:be i added to the jail, if possible ;with a.cheerful aspect,-;t6. be devoted entirely to. I lunatics, who ought, to; haye. an experienced keeper. He might also be. .of service to the .-jailer in. ease Of Ho did ? not atiaJl approve qf spending !the loan on roadslso long as there was a land fdndj and' would like to see it all devoted to reproductive works. : ; - • .

: , Mr. BhchaNan: cordially agreed with the member, for: FQrangahaur that j.it , was necessary that therd . should be a re-appro-priation of the.; unexpended portion of the immigration board, he would. ask if the Government intended: to endo w them with the £2;000 set aside for immigration - purposes, and; whether; such a board would have the: power to sue immigrants who had not fulfilled their obligations. : In his opinion it. would-be simply powerless and delusive.:: He thought the 70-mile Bush was a long way off to go land-purchasing; and. could now understand why < a? road had . .been. made -sin that direction, r He thought any. settlement there: would be of fai‘ greater benefit to Wanganui than Napier. He should have been much better pleased to hear that purchases, were likely to be made in /the Te Aute Bush. He looked upon the proposed purchase:at Hikutoto as being beneficial to the province ; hut he could not say the same about Wairon. It. was useless,, a place .with which conmiunication was: vii’tually impracticable by land, or sea, had: been ! a constant expense.to the province, and was now being rapidly deserted by its inhabitants, simply.,.because they were, starved out. ..A vast Government -expenditure hail forced it into a. brief existence, .and town allotments had realized £4D or £SO, which could now.'be obtained for. an old song. Yet the Government sought to revive and rejuvenate, this once brilliant “Eden” by more ! expenditure in buying land on the opposite side of the river.

: Lieut.-Colonel Whitmore said that the last speaker had disparaged Wairoa and said that it was deserted. In reply he would say that he observed from the last report of the Inspector of schools that the average daily attendance at f Wairoa was 19,'while rtliat- of the other country- districts' was about 6. [Mr. Buchanan : The schoolmaster hais since been, starved out.] His district had suffered more severely from the present depression thanany other ; .but it was only because the Government had withheld from it its proper due. The Government seemed to care only, for the large sums they had derived from it, and. when they could get no more, seemed to have abandoned it to its fate. In other, parts of the country that had not contributed : so much to the provincial funds as the district he represented, subsidized, coaches were runnirig •on highly-finished roads ; but the Government did not even now subsidize a steamer to trade between : ; Napier and Wairoa. He was confident that ,if Wairoa had;received. equal attention, and assistance with other country settlements, it would have been as prosperous a district as any m;the Province. . ~ v " .

Major- Lambert said-that the Government had at one time subsidized:a steamer to trade with W airoa, but: it < was * found that there was no trade for her, and/she was. principally used for pleasure parties: He believed she went lit last? and-foundered somewhere. - . He;approved'of: the idea of the. member> for: the country- district of appropriating a portion of the money to purchasing halting places for- stbek on the main lines of the He-regfetted that the lands likely to; be purchased did not include the; Te Aufce/Hushi; dst-if J the

Government did not quickly purchase it, it.would all fall into the. hands ofprivate speculators.: “Withreference to the school at Wairoa, which. was spoken of by the member,, for Wairoa as - containing 19 scholars, he was not quite clear whether it was entirely, deserted, or whether there" was merely a dame school there. ' -v;/ ' The motion was then-put add-agreed 5 to and the bill read a second time accord-; , ingly, ' c '; ; . ■ ■ Sujyply. : • . / k .. (In'thd- niotipn..of the or-, !derdpr;commijl^^^ ‘v’’ < JEJ&ucaUon Acttr' .. -r - > ,Mr. Rhodes pf the iyids&dnerematt^o&ffonQ^^ for Friday,' the Council Y ' 1 z\Y " y ' j.'.' . . : Y'\Yv" -Li >U d * ’ •.