Provincial Council.

Hawke's Bay Weekly Times, Volume 1, Issue 41, 7 October 1867, Page 246

Provincial Council.

TUESDAY, Ist OCTOBErT~^~ 'Phe Council met at 3 p.m.-;);; .; ■; r; * : .Presept?—The Ormond,. Kennedy, Parsons, Wood, Dolbel, Irvine, . Sutton,. Locke, Weston, Buchanan; Whitmore, Tanner; Tiffeni ; -- • The minutes of the' last meeting were read and confirmed. •■, r . ;: ' ' •

. -Mr. TANNER wished to know, before the house proceded to business,, whether or not the Government. wasSrespopsible,? If they Were not, they certainly could not proceed with business in the absence of the Superintendent. ' He thought, that aftep Ihe house had been twice 4 adjourned through the absence of-the Superintendent, that he-might have ; made an- effort to be present ou this occasion.'- It was evident that the Government must now take some position with regard to their responsibility.

Mr OhMOSD said that his Honor was sufficiently represented in‘his absence by the Deputy-Superintendent. He would not enter into the question of Responsible Government, • as- it had been sulliuiently debated on a former occasion. Mr TANNER could not understand how, if the gentlemen opposite were irresponsible, the Superintendent would b'e bound ,by their actions, any more than those of the other members of. the Council. ’ . . . '

Mr ORMOND repeated that the De-puty-Superintendent sufficiently represented his Honor, and said that the Government were to a cenain extent responsible for their advice. The matters they would bring before the Council had the full concurrence of his Honor- As to. his having slighted the Council by- his absence, fie might state that he had made arrangements to leave by the steamer on the 29th, and had very reluctantly remained, at the urgent request of the General Government-. The business of the Council was quite ready for them to go on with if they wished it, or the Government had no objection to defer it until after the arrival of Mr M'Lean, which would most likely be on Saturday. It now rested entirely with the Council whether or not the business was postponed.

Coi. WHITMOItE said that he should like to see a ltespon&ible Government. As the Council was at present constituted, the Executive were the exponents of the S‘aperintendeßt’s views, instead of those of the majority of the Council." He did not approve of the Superintendent occupying a seat in the Council. It' was equivalent to giving him a double vote. He hoped the question of R-sponsibij Government would be taken into consideration, and expected an answer from the Government on the subjeci. Mr TIKFEN agreed with , the member for Te Aute, that the Council should know the degree to which the Government were responsible. “ The answer' of the member for Porangahau had been very ambiguous, and the Government had shown a great want of consistency, in .Their actions throughout. 1 7

Mr BUCHANAN said that last sitting when it was proposed by the opposition that the business of the Council, should be conducted by the "Deputy-Supeiintendent in the absence of his Honor," the Council had been told that his presence was absolutely necessary, and that the business could not be conducted without him. ~ Ha did not believe it at the time, and now the same proposition had come from the (Government. He did not. understand the manner in which they blew hot and cold. The sooner the position and responsibility of the (Government was clearlj defined, the better would it be for the Council. He would not commit himself to any" opinion upon Responsible Government: THISTLE BILL. : - Mr ORMOND inforun d the Council that the Thistle Bill had been disallowed. £Laughter.J . CE3SIETERY ACT., . On the motion of Mr TIFFEN, this Act was read a second .time, and ordered to be committed presently. . POSTPONEMENT OP BUSINESS. • The consideration of the Slaughterhouse, Toll-gate, and District Roads Bills were deferred, on the motion of Mr ORMOND, till next sitting day." ' '■" -- " committee. ; : , The Council then went into’’Committee on the Cemetery Bill; It was. passed through Committee, with the. exception of the second, ciaiise, the consideration of which was defer rod till next sitting, day. , The Council then adjourned,. . WEDNESDAY, 2nd OCTOBER. < The Speaker toot the chair at 3 o’clock. Present,—The Speaker, Messrs. Rhodes, Ormond, Kennedy, Parsons, Wood, Delbel, Irvine, Sutton, Locke, Uarlyon, Weston, H uchanah; Whitmore, Tanner, Tiifen,. and Lambert. . \ ■ The ‘minutesof the last meeting were read confirihed. ,; } ■ ;;'; baM: adyances.'.; v ‘• .C. .Mr TANN'EBijjuoved.T-r-■, ; ■ •K . - Por 'tlie.i-proiTicfiioif’df'aHi correspondence-be-tween the Government: and; the .Manager of the . cordance;wifch;Ghev supplies voted at the sitting,. , -jrlt "would ,he remembered that wdieh . some show .of -opposition: was made to-the theYGoveroment had said that suph-opposition iwasv'duLofcplaee:' They had - mbney wouid to ‘-some' extent relieve the then existing. ; IReGouncillhadpdsscdvthelEsrimateeih good; faith ;ohstfiisfy^pdMd6h^ : since heardbitteticduiplaiiitsfrorn it hose

Aeen UMblepte/Jnejet 7 _iheit ;eiig^eiaentß „ owing;.^ltbe^^y^t^e^(^e^^enV;^- : BC®” liad^lM^-^’ia^^v^^mt^oheque.l^ng - dtehttn&red New Zeal^n?^ - r aind/tHat/tHe managerlfed stated^fiaft|&» -drawn that he could not make .: •/ad+ance^' T" MriORMONB: * Government'cheques ?, Mr TA&N1EB1; Theset* cheques .. authorisediofficials of *the Gover hment*r< and 1 - were therefore jQ-oyern* y went ; cheques, j An : idea appeared to he . pretfy Superintendent be set right, in fact, that']he was aVkincl of peripatetic money- chest.': ! . The: .payment.'of Government creditor* should , rest upon more reliable basis than the"accidental presence or absence ofone, . The opposition to the ? 'had ii! been l: characterued'as : something wicked, but. he tbought the wickedness was, on the part of tho Go? vernment, in voting sums of'money which had'ho.existence. 1 ' 1 f *. 4 y-' 7 Mr WESI'ON - seconded the Mr ORMOND t 'said that Jha of the memjber Jor. Te Aute did hot bear so '■/ much* upon its face as'he had brought into t the remarks with which_he had introduced it; The; only.,correspopdence'whujh'had passed between the and the Sank on this subject consisted of two letters—one from the Government' to the Bank, asking for' an advance of, £5,000, and the other'from, the Bank, stating that they could not advance the money till they were assured of good security, by tbq passing of the Loan Consolidation Act. , He (Mr O.) had, whhe in; Wellington, obtained from the Bank an advance of £2OOO, which he had paid to Mr Morrißon, settling the Montmorency claims. It was in consequence of the refusal of this advance of £5,000, which had almost been directly promised, that theT Government, had not been able to carry out their intention of clearing ; off,; their) liabilities. Thp- -Loan Consolidation Act was how most" likely passed, and/ifi so, off the arrival pf the ct. Hilda on Saturday,.his Honor would bring ■with bim;au advance of £IO,OOO fro.m the Bank, which would fully pay off all- outstanding claims. As for what the member for Te Aute had said about the cheques of Government officials being dishonored, he appeared' to bonfouhd them with Government cheques —a very different thing. -No Government cheques hhd been dishonored, hut there ,was no .reason that those of Go,-, "vernment officials should be treated differently to others.;; If the manager of the Bank had made any-sucb statement as that attributed to Kim/ all he (Mr O;) .could say was, that he had-been-very unwise; but from-what he knew of .that gentleman, he considered it ! -very unlikely that such was ■ the case. ";- x ' " - Mr BUCHANAN said that if he had understood for. ,Te Aute rightly, he had -nfet referred to private cheques oiGovernhient officers/butblieque’s against the public funds, which these gentlemen were authorised. tojgive. Mr RHODES said that if the Treasurer’s cheques were/Meant, he could say s that none of them,had Seen dishonored.' Mr. BUCHANAN, said he 'believed-the particular cheque referred towas.ope of;the Provincial Engineer’s. If ; that gentleihan had the authority; of the Government 1 , tq give; cheques for Government services performed, , they were -as much Government cheques as if drawn By tHe 1 Treasurer. ;; Mr TANNERY said, .that if the Government were responsible for the performance of the work, - they, were also responsible for the cheques. .

, ...... BATTERJ /ROAD, ... Mr SUTTON Government,— Whether the works now being carried on in Battery-Road are to bet paid for out jo( Provincial funds:;: if so, out of which item on the last Estimates they are toJie.paid for, —He had seen ah-Advertisment by /the Provincial Engineer, calling for tenders, to make a Qf::this';road-.ih He saw no 1 sum in the Estimates devoted to this purpose,';abd; considered it'i.to bera waste, of money undeE thepreseqfc circumstahces of -the Province, as there was no.tre'ffio in that direction: ';t-:Mr..lOßMOND^shid c that thisowas paid; for under the system of grants?in, aid iff force in the Pro vouch: < The: residents along' that road, had . subscribed ; £sOll to - this -purpose,- and :the.-Government jihad supplemented it by a similar sum, The. Government did net considered it a waste of moneys bu.t, ! ori the contrary, a good in-i yestmentj as it would- afford-aceess to a valuable, reserve irqthat pajt> .of’.the: .town known as Curling’s Gully, which they intended shortly tq lease., , .j

. SHEEP AND SCAB.ACT. / ! j For leave to-bring jin.a.Rii], exist' ing.Scab and i —He stated that ;the former bill liad .been disallowed, on account, ofi ani informaityi which'hadbisen -corrected in;the, one he siderable length into thei objects qf( the l3ill; ;; ; . Leave.was-grarited time, add; tHe rapcond; reading for Tuesdhy.sSVAM--V . 7 -■•'" ."*vi ■£ REPAYTVTpJTS. \ " Mr'Blj|teASMoved;^ -r-, v •;! , apetiirn* of .'tHe i on acf « couhiti ? of tijuimlffcationi [the: frojn this Source.; C; He ?Had . ms -yvi3H^|tdi>knp»r|e^ctiy*liq3^;fer^|HeJ:^ pecjbktiona|bf^tbElG^eEnmei^‘fHa^tbpep:

j seconded . the .mbtkraV, .. wohlds pu ftHe tablje.> ThpiestijUjate f -no* baanii nearly realizedl* ‘■lt everf that the ;GomfHihentihad??xp r ekßed receive; so large jiue.? ’• THS>»Gbyerhmentl.might> Have impye* -p»oegigg< .iTX < ,t^e,-. ( paattpJ’» ,;b]afe ; .they considered iS would; searbely; be just, in the ,ex6E&me' dulhess pf:the times.. y : < ;;t, :xn al': i ; - POSTPONEMENT OE BUSINESS.: ; : r ;Oh imottioHSjjJby^■ the sjeepnd. reading of tho t SHeep, Branding Act,' and Dog' iNuisahce 'Act' was- postponed tilL Tuesday, Mp,ORMOND, the ; :DlßTßlCT^RqMbs.Bilffj, ! Mr'ORMOND Moved— '

! Thatjihe; ; District Bill .be reajl.a pecond time..",.., '.' J ‘ ■ ■■■>> :■:

T-He explained that tile Act at* present in apd in, many respects inapplicable to this' Proyince, and thatithe propos'ed’Act hacl been constructed with great; care;,\abd a yiewr to, the.pgpuliar cirpumßtanees.pf.Hawke’p Bay. ciple bf'tne" bill the managegenfc of ;distriftVTOads. into, thp. hands of cal boards, retain to the Government the management ; of : trupk lines. The Government yyould.sopp^,have no funds to garrv out these works, and such' a system would be actually'necessary! This would be espeeially the case,when the interest of the,lpan wpuld addi a large sum. to the expenditure? ; ‘W‘ith regard ; to thfeloan, some members hod; regretted that the Proyince had ever.borrowed at allon the contrary, he thought the only matter of regret’ was that they .had not horro.vy.qd more than tliey had done’.'While the Provincial system lasted,' under the financial system of.Mr Eitzherhert,. .each province would be charged with the in terest of its own lbans, but when the Provinces cameito an end—which ,m,ust be very poon—the, loans would be and the interest charged to the Igeneral ’ revenue of ’ the Colony. There were, still .certain, amendments .to be made in the bill,, put .this could be done in committee! . ' '■ :: :■ : ' i

Mr BUCHINAN, said that he, would move that the bill be read that day six months. ■' It could not be expected that in such a; district as Mohaka, the few settlers there should have, to pay the whole cost of .making and, keeping'’the roads in repair, ft' would be -better; to introduce ,the system pf eyery settler fipding a. certain amount pf-labor! This 1 had worked well in Canada ;and elsewhere.. ; With. 'regard to the loan, the - memjber, for Porangahau had stated that’‘the Province would'" have-'been in a petteriposition. had it ..borrowed £30,000 .more.;, .This wm not the case, as, under jMr Pitzherbert’s system, half of the Proyiueial revenue was to he: .charged, with ■the .interest of its loans. He. should give (the bill his uncompromising opposition, and, ; moved that it be 'jread that day six ■months.

''Mr IRVINE seconded the motion.

, Messrs.. ,J,ambeyt,r.Tiffen; Carlyon, and 'Whitmore spoke against the bill. Mr ORMOND said members seemed to consider the-; bill '.a, new; thing. = . The Wellington District Roads Bill, a similar Act, but far less applicable, was now in force.in this Province. nMrOrmopd continued at considerable .length,., and, Mr Buchanan’s amendment; was put and negatived on a division;’ ■.: -i;,. - r ;

, My-ORMONDjinoved that the foUowing gentlemen be appointed as 1 a select committee on. the I bill!: 4-Messrs?. Buchanan, Uarlyon, Tiffen, Whitmore, Rhodes, ParsonsV'Tiocke, Dolhel? : Lambert, and the moyer.-, . , . ■ Major. Lambert and Messrs. Tiffen and Buchanan objected to serve in the committee; and their,; names were. accordingly struck out. „ ' • Mr BDCHANAN 'moved tHe : addition of .the fdllqwing words,;, “with instructions! iherely to. bring in a. bill repealing, the ac- : tidh of 4 ’the ' W ellingtou ' Act on the subject.” - The amendment was lost, and the, original motion carried. “ 1

TOLL-GATE BILL. Mr ORMOND moved— ~

.That tHe .TbU)Gate Bill bft read,a second time. ) —He was that this bill would; meet with considerable J opposition, but if •it'wafl'hbt',passed : itlwohld. cause the Government . considerable ' embarrassment; had .been, heavy, losers in the-C.ustomp revenue’.and, .either ways by the recent of the. General' ihent? '"'.‘A 1 sum ofi£2ooo was required* and hot'S’ee/any .better way of raising the sapne.:?. «*7s f ; Colonel WHITMORE, supported the bill. He could not conceive a mucli fairer 'tax:flian'tliiß. r: '~7'-'--' '•rr.-'-rr.-rr- rv- ’

.i.Mj^.lßXlME.thought the,tpHs- would nbt 'exceed £7OO/,and!;they c’ouid ;not ‘get ,a cohecto^'for'less than *’£2oo.’ No law hould prevent peopled evading^the.: toll' by riding beach; below, highwatep.-mark. , ■ jv QP,I), saidf tlierqiepiberfqPiWahrpa had said he ; cquld. not conceive afmuch fairer tax.! He (Mr Wood) could not" oon ; Eeive‘ j of‘‘one rmore unjust br ineqiiitable. If ahyisuch sum as! the. Government esfcipeople of Napier7ahd‘ tbe^ t ßtruggUnghmall-farme rs;of Meanee! J ;He had 1 Heard tiiat' the''rates weruto. he as those of<the.ferry thp bH-mepaand milkmen who daily supplied,Napier % with theirproducewouldhetaxedtotheexteht had: often Heard that- gentiemah o*P.reß?j:.feihympathy:; .small!farmeps'ahd 'poseibl^heMtigh^giyetihe©

the bene&t;’of,his'vbte;! The' .amount',of the toUs collected ! -at: the ferry punt'never jexce§ded: apnum,' and .so the; difference between this amount and £fie* &oyernment: inhde ./inhabitants,, df Napierijand Meanee.; He: was;,pledged ’to opposutbis billi'andut tvsls the only pledgb’Mith Which hjahad: eptgred the hous§. thei risolutioujß standipg inhis name :—/ " J ' l;'That'the' establishment of>. a Toll-gate’ for mere revenue purposes, ' the levies at which. it should be' contemplated applying" to "general, in-, stead* of to particnlaf/and' Specially' deflnedCpur • poses, would be, ineqaitable,- and press, imeyenly .on a.section of the commhiiily; ’ --t* 5 ■ i2; That if ,a;Toll-gateLbe f established at or near the. town boundary, it is. the opinion of this Council 1 that the-dues collected thereat ought' to be applied to maintenance of the roads between Napier' and Ngariiroro’ Bridge aiid TaVeha’s Bridge, and/ base* of the Puketapu hills. '

.; Major LAMBERT wotild have opposed the hill, b,»t he sa’w Jit was -a; necessary measure. As for injustice to {; Meanee, he considered it a .highly favored "district. ONo, no.] THe“Meanee settlers had’had the use: of .a bridge.,which. cost, . £9op to £IOOO for seven years, and had not’paid anything for its use. He thought’;'that people whorCQuld afford to. ride on horseback on Sunday could afford! 6d toll. On tjhat road' every twentieth ‘man yon met was in his carriage. Surely a person who. kept his carriage could afford a’shilling; He would support >the., bill,, thoughppe r , sonally he wouid at any time ride a mile to evade a toll-gMe. • ’ , A long disc'usßiqU then ensued. : At. 6 the . Council/ adjourned: till 7 p.m., when they again met and sat'till 9. ’’ j ' i Mr I-RVINE moved as an amendment* “That the further consideration of tliis be postponed until the Highways Act be disposed of:” '< -• ■ - •

! Mr DOLBEL. moved as an amendment, “ That the biil be read this day 6 months.” , The -‘Council divided on each amend* ment, with the following results : , On Mr Irvine’s amendment. —Ayes, 3 Messrs Irvine, WHihnore, and' Dolbel. Noes, 13—Messrs. Parsons, Rhodes, Kennedy, Carlyon, Locke, Weston, Lambert, Buchanan, Tiffen, Ormond, Wood, Siitton, and Tanner.

. On Mr Dolbel’s amendment.—Ayes, 5 •—Messrs. Dolbel, Buchanan, Dolbel, Tiffen, and Locke. Noes, 11 —Messrs. Parsons, Kennedy,. Rhodes, Carlyon, Weston, [Lambert, Whitmore, Sutton, Tanner, Ormond, and Wood. On Mr, Buchanan’s ffrst resolution. — Ayes, B—Messrs. Buchanan,' Locke, Sutton, Irvine, Wood, - Parsons, Tiffen, Dol-. bel. Noes,, B—Messrs. Ormond, Weston, Carlyon, Rhodes, Whitmore, .Tanner, and Lambert. The. Speaker gave his casting vote with the noes, and the resolution was lbst. On Mr Buchanan’s second resolution. Ayes, 9—Messrs. Locke, .Sutton, Irvin , Wood, Parsons, Buchanan, Tiffen, Dolbel, and Tanner. Noes, 7 —Messrs. Ormond, West >n, Kennedy, Rhodes, Carlyon, Lambert, and Whitmore. . The bill was then read a second time, and ordered tio be considered iu committee on Tuesday. CEMETERIES BILL.

The Council went into committee on the Cemeteries Bill. After, a petition with reference to the biil, brought in by Mr Wood, ,had* been road and received, the committee was adjourned till Thursday. The Council adjourned at 9 p.m.