Licensing Bill Passed

Hawke's Bay Tribune, Volume XVII, 1 December 1927, Page 6

Licensing Bill Passed

For 39: Against 32 All-Night Sitting in the House Amendments in Committee

Wellington. Nov. 30. The House of Representatives went into committee this afternoon on the Licensing Amendment Bill. Discussing clause 5, which deals with national restoration. Mr. H. £. Holland (Leader of the Opposition) said he still could not believe tnat there was any serious intention to put the bill upon the Statute Book. He had tried over and over again to get from the Prime Minister a direct statement as to whether he did or did not intend to pass the bill into law, but so tar he had failed to get a direct reply. If the Prime Minister would give the House an assurance that the bill would pass into law rnat would alter the whole situation. The question was whether the bill was going on to the Statute Book or whether they were just going to fool away hours of time and get nowhere. The Prime Minister said that so far as the amendments made in the bill were concerned, he was in favour of them except the bare majority. He would not support the bit] so long as it contained that provision. He would not even move the third reading of the bill. If it passed the House and was sent to the Legislative Council, that bodv could overhaul it as they liked and then the House would have an opportunity of reviewing it again. He asked the House to give the bill fair consideration. The majority of the members wanted the bill brought back to where it was. Mr. W. D Lysnar (Gisborne); It would have been better to nava left it there. The Prune Minister: That is tnj opinion, too. Sir Joseph Ward (Invercargill) asked the Prime Minister whether, if the bill passed both Houses with * bare majority in it, he would sign the requisition to the Governor-General to assent to it? “WAIT AND SEE.’The Prime Minister said he uad no desire to be disrespectful to the right hon. gentleman, but he must as« him to “wait and see.” Hie Prime Minister then moved an amended sub-clause providing for a poll for the restoration of acetifies, such poll to bo earned it more than one halt of the voters vote .n favour of restoration. This was agreed to on the voices. The Prime Minister moved an amended sub-clause which would enable licensing committees to restore licenses on a maximum of one to every 500 electors of a district and a minimum of one to every 1500 eleotoil's. • The amendments proposed by t,b» Prime Minister were agreed to. The Primo Minister then moved the following addition to sub-clause (e): Notwithstanding anything to the «>i>trary in the lust preceding paragraph >f a proposal in favour of national restoration is earned at the first poll taken after, the no-11 at which a pro posai in favour of national probition was carried, the following provisions shall apply namely—U) No licenses shall be granted in a former no license district unless the determination of the electors of that district at the poll in accordance with the next succeeding section is in favour of tho restoration of licenses therein, and (2) the number of publicans’ licenses to be granted in any other licensing district shall not exceed the number of such licenses in force m such dis tricts or in such borough as the ease may be immediately prior to the coming into force of the determination in favour of national prohibition, A technical alteration was made in the definition of "private bar” >n clause 9 ACCOMMODATION PROVISIONS. The Prime Minister proposed to strike out clauses 16, 17 and 18. dealing with the standard of accommodation provided bv licensed premises. Mr T. W. Rhodes (Thames) and Mr G. W. Forbes (Hurunui) tested against the decision of these clauses, which they regarded as most important to the public. The Prime Minister ouid he put these clauses in as compensation to the public for the extended tenure given in the original bill, but as the tenure had not been extended and the majority cut down, he thought they must be lair and give the licensee something. He therefore preferred to let the law stand as at present. Mr. Forbes maintained that men who were keeping good houses wuuirt not object to clauses 16. 17 and 18. The Prime Minister’s proposal to strike them out was al] in favour of those houses which would not supply decent accommodation. Either the trade or prohibition seemed to dominate the position, and the general public had no say After further discussion tne clauses were withdrawn, the Prime Minister promising to reconsider them. At clause 24 Mr. K. W. Smith (Waimanno) moved an amendment intended to give the press in the King Country the right' to publish liquor advertisements. The Attorney-General, who was temporarily in charge of the bill, said he agreed with the principle of thu amendment, but' could not accept it as drafted. He suggested the postponement of the clause to give time for further consideration The clausa was postponed. At clause 28 Mr. P. Fraser (Wallington Central) asked, and the Min ister promised, to take into consideration a proposal to prohibit the employment in breweries and bottling stores of persons under 21 years of age. Mr. E. P. Lee asked that clause bu be so amended that the law relating to the taking of liquor into pro. claimed areas and into no-lioense districts be made uniform. The Minister promised to look into the discrepancy pointed out After t>ie adjournment progress was report rd to allow of the introduction of the Finance Bill. On resuming in foinmittee, Mr Potter objected to clause 33, granting an extension for the sale or liquor at social functions on police recommendation. Messrs Milford, Veitch Bartram and Bud to favoured the extension of this favour to chartered dubs.

The Prime Minister said this coulu not be done without the new clause. Mr. Lysnar urged that the concession should also extend to resi-aur-ants. Mr. J. A Lee (Auckland East) argued that so long as we have continuance there should be less restrictions on the use of liquor at Banquets. If people had to drink six or eight toasts in water they would suffer from rheumatics. Mr Forbes urged that the extended hour should be to 10.30 p.m. The Prime Minister said he could not accept that proposal, but he wits prepared to include chartered clubs if they have a dining-room on their premises. On the motion of Mr. T M Wilford (Hutt) an amendment was inserted to give effect to this. REGISTRATION OF BARMAIDS. At clause 34, providing that the registration of barmaids be transferred from the Labour Denartment to the Police Department Mr. Holland said that although he was certain that the bill was not going on the Statute Book and that the whole discussion was farcical, he would object to any section of male workers being taken out of the control of the Labour Department and being placed under the Police Department. He wanted to know why such a clause had been placed in the bill and who asked for it. It could do no good and would only irritate those most concerned. The Hotel Workers' Union should be consulted before such a step i s taken. The Prime Minister said the Labour Department was anxious to be relieved of the duty of registration of barmaids. The police administer the law and are in a better nosition to watch the observance of the Inw. If was many years now since barmaids were compelled to register, yet many of them were just as young and good looking as ever, and a suggestion had been made that a certain amount of trafficking in certificates was going on. The clause was struck out on the voices. A new clause was added providing for restoration on a bare majority. Mr. Fraser objected to a new clause proposed by the Prime Minister, proposing to register barmen bv the police. He urged that this placed these men on a plane with criminals. The clause had not been asked for and he suggested that it he held over until the men concerned had ■ been consulted. The Prime Minister said he took full responsibility for the clause. It was necessary to have reliable men retailing liquor and this ornvision would, in course of time, get responsible men behind tho bars and so elevate the tone of the trade. Mr. Potter: It is raising if. to the status of a profession. He will be able to put B.M. after his name. The Prime Minister: I am not ioking; 1 am serious. ft might create a close corporation, but : f th-t will improve the character of tho trade. 1 will vote for a close corporation every time. THE PLIMSOL MARK On resuming after supper, the Hon. F. J. Rolleston. whn was in charge of the bill, said the Prime Minister was quite prewired to moot a representative of the barmen and to consider the clause in the light of their representation Mr J. R. Lee said that if this registration was insisted on every barman would be expected to estimate at a glance the cubic capacity of each customer. In these circumstances a barman should have some measure of protection, and to that end every customer should have his phmsol mark plainly exhibited. If this were not done they would require some mechanical means of supply, and it would not be long before we had bowsers for boozers as part of our social equipment. Discussing on. the clause providing for the registration of. barmen was continued until 12.40, when a division was taken, the clause being agreed to by 51 to 21.' A new clause was also passed : That future restoration polls in districts which voted licenses out shall be carried on a majority of 55 per cent. Mr. J. C. Rolleston (IVaitomo) moved a new clause giving the right to residents in the King Country to take a poll as to whether there should dr should not be licenses in that district. He suggested that if licenses were carried they should be only for beer and light wines. Discussing the proposal Mr. J. McCombs (Lyttelton) raised the question that as it was a special poll it would involve additional expenditure and was therefore an appropriation clause. The Chairman of Committees ruled that as the poll would be taken simultaneously with the vote on national prohibition there would be n 0 extra exwnditure and therefore no appropriation Mr McCombs asked flint the ruling of the Speaker b e taken on the point. This was done and the ruling was that the taking of the poll woulcf involve expenditure and that being an appropriation scheme coukf not be moved. Other amendments were either withdrawn or lost on the voices, and at 1.35 the bill was reported with amendments. A NOVEL SITUATION. On the Speaker resuming the chair a somewhat novel situation arose in the Prime Minister refusing to move the third reading of the bill he introduced. This duty was taken up by Mr, E. F. I .co (Oamaru). who pro--ceeded to traverse the history of liquor legislation since the special polls of 1917. when State Purchase was an issue. This was a chance for the trade to be paid out. but they tailed to take advantage of this opportunity. After the. telegraph office closed Mr Lee continued his speech. Dealing with the bare majority ho said this principle was established in 1918 and in putting it into this Bill the House

was only presenting to the people what they already had. They introduced no new principle. The National Cabinet established the bare majority and the Minister of Finance supported it. It was reasonable to suppose that thev thought out the questions of finance and unemployment but the vital point of the Bill was the right of the people to decide the issue on a bare majority, which right they had enjoyed for some years and held sacred. The Leader of the Opposition said he did not believe the Bill was intended to go on to the Statute Book. It had been deserted by its lawful parent and would meet a violent death in another place. He raised the point that as the Prime Minister had introduced a Bill bristling with appropriations, could a private member now take it up and carry it on and be BMponsible for its appropriations ? The Speaker ruled that the Crown, having given its assent to the Bill when introduced, change of ownership did not affect the position. Mr. W. D. Lysnar denounced the Bill as propagating the "poisonous humbug of prohibition.” OPPOSED THE BILL. Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt), as a supporter of State Control, opposed the Bill, which he regretted the Prime Minister had brought back to the House after progress had been reported. The Hon. O. J. Hawken feared the bare majority but ridiculed the idea that there was no intention to pass the Bill. Mr. J. McCombs quoted statistics to show that America was having no difficulty with finance and unemployment as a result of prohibition. It the £12,000.000 ndw worse than wasted on liquor in . New Zealand were turned into useful channels of production there would bo no fear of unemployment. Mr. V. H. Potter (Rcskill)'declared that the finest thing that could ever happen to New Zealand would be prohibition if carried, and if carried it could be kept. DIVISION TAKEN. The debate closed at 3.35 a.m. and on the question that the Lili be read a third time a division was called for, uie voting being: For the Bill, 39; against, 32. The Bill was read a third time and passed. The House rose at 3.50 a.m. until 2.30 p.m. The following is the division list:— Ayes (39): Anderson, Bellringer, Bitchener, Burnet, Dickie, J. MoC. Dickson, Eraser, A. Hamilton, J. R. Hamilton, Harris, H. Holland, Howard, Hunter, D. Jones, W. Jones, Jordan, Kyle, E. P. Lee, Linklater, McCombs, McKeen, McLennan, MacMillan, Martin, H. G. R. Mason, Nosworthy, Potter, Ransom, Reid, Rhodes, F. J. Rolleston, Stewart, Sullivan, Sykes, Tapley, Waite, Walter, Wright, Young. Noes (32): Armstrong, Atmore, Bartram. Bell, Buddo, Campbell, Coates, J. S. Dickson, Elliott, field. Forbes, Glenn, Hawken, Henarc, Hockley, H. E. Holland, Horn, J. A. Lee, Luke, Lysnar, McLeod, J. Mason, Nasn, Larry, Pomare, J. C. Rolleston, Savage, Seddon, Veitch, Ward, Wilford, Williams. Pairs for the Bill: Uru, Forsyth, Girling. . Against; Ngata, Hudson, Smith.