PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Hawke's Bay Times, Volume 13, Issue 682, 17 May 1869, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

THURSDAY, MAY 13, 1869. The Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m." Present —All the members except Messrs Locke and Wbitmore. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. PAPERS. His Honor laid on the table thefollowing papers :—Estimate of Revenue for the financial year 1869-70; Abstract of Expenditure from Ist July, 1868, to 30th April, 1869 also probable amount of Expenditure, to 30th June, 1869; Statement showing amount realised, estimated and due to 30th June, 1869, of theEatimated Revenue for the financial year, 1868-69; Abstract of Expenditure under Loan Appropriation,. £60,000, from Ist July, 1868, to> 31st March, 1869 ; Abstract of Expenditure under " Loan Appropriation Amendment 1868, £28,000," from Ist July, 1868, to 30th April, 1869—also, amount of Expenditureon account of contracts in land, &c. Mr Fekakd asked if the Printing; Committee was still in existence. The Speaker could find nothing, to lead him to suppose it was a standing Committee, LIGHTHOUSE RESERYE. Mr M'Lean moved--For leave to bring in a hill to authorise the leasing of the lighthouse reserve. Leave granted, bill brought in,, read a first time, and ordered to be?, printed. Second Reading ordered, for Tuesday. EDUCATION COMMISSION. Mr Rhodes moved— That the Report of the Education Commission* be taken into consideration. —The report, which was very short,, had been on the table some days,, but he would read it for the information of members. [The report stated that the members of the Commission having been unable to agree upon a measure, had decided to allow matters to remain in their present state till next session of Council.}; The Commission wished to elicit from the Council some decided expression of opinion before they could do anything. Each member of that Comission had a different idea or what amount was required, and how it should be levied; thus disagreeing at the very outset. They thereforeconsidered that until a majority the Council should settle some definite ground to work upon, it would be useless to bring up a bill; and thai until this was done, the existing Education Act should be allowed to remain in force If a tax of some kind was not levied, the schoolmasters would have to be dismissed, many of them would leave the province, and education, would be in a short time utterly neglected. The rate had up to this: time produced £520; £3OO more was expected, making a total of £B2O. Deducting from this £7O, the salary of the Inspector, the result was £750 ;—just about sufficient tocarry on education in ics present state. Possibly the Council might suggest some better scheme of taxation, but until this was done ha would advise them not to repeal the present act, but leave well alone. Mr Cahlyon thought it was impossible to suggest a tax which would meet the views of the public. They would wait till a measure was passed, and then object to it, to the end of the chapter. It was a pity the present act was not drawn in a more shapely manner. He had heard of hard cases under the present act—where a man with two or three small houses had to pay £2 or £3, while the proprietor of large domains had only to pay £l. Mr A'Deane regretted that 12 months had been allowed to elapsewithout any result being arrived at. Mr Tanner said that though no result had been arrived at by the Commission, it did not follow that nothing had been done. It appeared to have been overlooked that theEducation Rates Act was not intended to be a permanency ; and thua as the Commission found they had no permanent means it became very doubtful how they should act. An Education Act was different from an Education Rates Act; they knew that the latter was only temporary,.

pending something being produced more palatable to the public; and they thought that if they framed an Act containing any clause referring to a Rate it might be the means of its being thrown over. The first question to settle was what was to be the permanent rate—as a basis for the Commission to work upon. The present Act was only intended for 12 months, but as it contained no limitation clause, it would remain in force until it was repealed. He trusted, with the member for Give, that the Council would not for one moment think of allowing the schools to be closed. He had written to his constituents to get their vie'vs on two points—first, whether they would like the schools closed or not, and secondly, what sort of rate they thought would .be tfye most palatable. He wished to know the views of the peculiar class of whom his constituency consisted. Mr Rhodes said that as the opinion of members did not seem averse to it, he would move that the report of the Commission be adopted by the Council —that, in fact, the present tax remain in force for one year more. Mr Ferard thought there was some error in the printed Act. He was under the impression that it was passed with a limitation clause. Mr Carlton remembered the clause ; but he also perfectly remembered it being struck out in committee. Mr Ormond said that as the Act contained no limitation clause, it must of course remain in force until repealed. Mr Rhodes said there was a no tice for next sitting day by a member for the town that the Act should be repealed. If that motion were not withdrawn the discussion had better be taken upon it, as it would otherwise only be twice, going over the same ground. He did not think much information would be derived from the appeal of the member for Te Aute to his constituency. He believed we should find any constituency in the Province almost equally divided on any given subject. He would instance as a sample his own constituency. At a meeting they held on the subject the only thing they could agree upon was that there should be no education tax. Mr Sutton said that if it was the wish of the Council to take the discussion now he would withdraw his notice of motion. Mr A'Deane was not in favor of going into the subject to-day. He thought it advisable to leave one night for its consideration. Mr Ferard thought the question of the repeal of the Act would give a fairer ground for discussion. Mr Rhodes would like to see the debate more animated. As yet it had been of the dullest description. People seemed to take so little interest in the subject that he believed that if it was not assisted by the Government, education would die out altogether. There was one impi'overoent which would give satisfaction if it were made in the Act. He had heard working men say they would not object to the annual rate of £1 if they had the power of appointing their own schoolmasters.

MR BODDINGTON'S PETITION. Mr Ferard moved— That the petition of Edward Boddington be printed. —-He thought it might be of use as a record if the Council took any action in the matter. Mr Carlton seconded the motion. He would have opposed it but for one word used used by the member for the town—that it would be a record, Mr Westox thought the consideration of the petition had been deferred until tbe case in the Supreme Court had been decided. Mr M'Lean said the case had been decided, Mr Boddington having confessed judgment <for the amount claimed, Agreed to. THE PRINTED MINUTES. Mr Ferard moved— That the Minutes of the Proceedings of the Provincial Council during Session 13, as printed, are untrustworthy, and not recognised by this Council as authoritative.

The Speaker said that before this subject came under discussion he would call attention to the fact that at every meeting of the Council the minutes of the previous day's sitting were read and • confirmed by the Speaker, and that it was from this minute book that the copies in the possession of members were printed, Therefore the statement that these books were untrustworthy was a reflection upon the Speaker, and on every individual member ; for if any member, when the minutes were read, found any discrepancy in them from what he remembered having taken place on the previous day, it was his duty to direct the attention of the Speaker to the fact. Mr Ferard wished to point out that his motion did not refer to the minute book of the Council, but to the minutes as printed. It would be remembered that last session the Council appointed a Printing Committee to determine what part of the minutes should be printed; and he did not intend his motion to reflect upon the Speaker, but he did intend, it to reflect upon the members of that committee. That committee was first suggested by the member for Te Aute, who stated that the former minute books contained so much rubbish as to render it almost impossiWe to find anything to which reference should be made. The Council agreed with this, and appointed a committee to strike out the superfluous matter; but he (Mr F.) never supposed that it was the intention of the Council that anything beyond mere formal matter, such as division lists, notices of motion, <fec, .should be omitted. Certainly it was not in tended that any deliberate resolutions of the Council should disappear from the book. Curiously enough, an instance had occurred that very morning of the utter uselessness of the book. A member, wish ins: to find the resolution appointing the Education Commission, looked for it in vain, and the manuscript minute book of the Council had to be refeired to. The first omission he would mention was that of an Act passed by the Council—the Overdraft Bill, all notice of which had disappeared from the book. The commitee, he thought, took a great deal upon them in omitting the Act, because, he supposed, it had not been legalised by the General Assembly. Many of the important subjects of which no notice had been taken had no doubt vanished from his memory, but he could instance a resolution referring to the Papakura Road Rates—one of importance, and having a bearing on the future, — and the resolution appointing a Charitable Aid Board. To none of these subjects could he find any reference. Again, the member for Mohaka had asked the Government if they intended bringing in a Cart and Cab Act, and he could find no mention of this, He (Mr F.) had moved a long string of lesolu lions on the subject of education, which, after occupying the Council two nights in discussion, were carried unanimously. He thought certainly that this should have appeared in the book. That the work had not been carried out in an orderly manner was shown by the fact of papers laid on the table by his Honor being enumerated on one occasion and omitted on many others. There was also omitted a legal opinion on the working of the Auckland "Wasle Lands Act, and an answer to the question what fees had been taken from the Boiling-down Co. Among measures omitted, which did not pass the Council, but were still of importance, he might instance the motion of the member for the Countiy Districts for the repeal of the Executive Act—a motion which caused a very close division in the Council. He should ask the Council to consider what was the value of the contents of a book got up in that matter. In one place there was inserted a whole string of trivial questions by Lieut. - Colonel Whitmore—who was on the committee —while really important matters, such as rulings of the Speaker, were omitted. The Committee never omitted to tell us that the Council met at 3 p.m. and adjourned at half-past 7 ; and in one place we were told that the Council divided, but were not informed as to the re-

suit of the division. Altogether, he considered that the public money had been spent on a book which was valueless for the purposes of reference. The Committee had acted quite contrary to the wishes of the Council, who could never have Intended their deliberate resolutions to be passed over without notice. As an instance of the untrustworthiness of the book, he could «how that the Council was one day stated to have adjourned for want of a quorum when in reality there was a long debate, and a great deal of business done. Mr Orhond seconded the motion pro formd, in order that ic might be discussed. Mr Carlyon said that it was clear what the opinion of the Council was upon this subject; from the difficulty the mover found in finding a secon ler. Whatever was meant by the motion, it was very unfairly worded, ,<o as to cast a reflection upon the Speaker and the Clerk of the Council. To say the book was untrustworthy and not recognized by the Council was very like casting an imputation upon the Committee, and in bringing forward his motion in this form the member for the town had made a mistake he was not often guilty of. The principal ground of offence seemed to be the omission of a long string of resolutions by the member for the town on the subject of education, which the Committee unanimously thought were not of sufficient importance to be placed on record. If they were, let the mover bring them forward session after session, instead of allowing them to be buried in that chamber of oblivion, the blue book of the Council. As a proof how little was thought of these blue books, he had no hesitation in saying that there was not a complete set of them to be found in the library of any member of that Council—a fact which showed more than any other in how slight estimation they were held. The fact was, they were stuffed with so much nonsense as to render them valueless as books of reference. As for the omission of the Overdraft Act, that was an unpardonable mistake, but it was not the fault of the committee. Every resolution passed by the Council had been inserted. Mr Ferard must correct this statement. His own string of resolutions, which had been omitted, were affirmed by the Council. Mr Carlyon believed he remenr bered the member for the Town saying he left those resolutions to their fate, and ihat the Council negatived them one after the other. The minutes were then referred to, on the application of Mr Ferard, who pointed out three or four instances where resolutions passed by the Council—his own being among the number —had been omitted from the printed minutes. Mr Carlyon would give an account of the principles which had actuated the Committee. Anything of a mere temporary nature, they had omitted —the resolution of the member for the Country referring to the Executive Act, for instance. If anything had come of it, it would ha«'e been recorded—as it was, it was unnecessary. What had been omitted were simply resolutions leading to nothing—so very useless as not to be worth printing. As for the Education resolutions, they might be found in the Canterbury Act from which they were taken. If a resolution was of a mere temporary nature, it was unnecessary to put it on record, and if it was carrie 1 out, what need was there of doin % so 1 The fault of the book was that it was too complete, but if the Councilwere dissatisfied, let them appoint a new printing Committee. Mr Tanner was surprised at the shape the motion had taken. The Committee had acted to the best of their judgment, and in the instances that member had given—principally his own resolutions they had thought it would be no great hardship for him to refer to the minutebook. The term "untrustworthy" was a strong and unwarrantable one, and the meaning of the resolution would have been better expressed had it said not sufficiently comprehensive or voluminous. With re-

ference to the Education resolutions of the member for the Town, they knew that a Committee had been appointed to from an Education Act, of which the resolutions would probably form a basis, and that under these circumstances they thought it unnecessary to retain the crude resolutions. He trusted that the Council would reject the motion in this form, as unjust to the Committee. Mr Ferard, in reply, defended the term untrustworthy, and condemned the book as being utterly useless and a waste of public money The motion was negatived. CLIVE SCHOOL PETITION. Mr Rhodes moved— That the Petition of the inhabitants of Clive for a school reserve be taken into consideration. —After some discussion the mover gave a specific notice for next sittingday. SHEEP AND SCAB CONSOLIDATION. This bill was read a second time and committed, Mr A'Deane, in the absence of Mr Wood, being appointed Chairman of Committee pro tern. After considering a portion of the bill in Committee, the Council adjourned.

THE NATIVE MEETING AT OHINEROA. HOBRIBLE MURDER OF A MAORI WOMAN. (Prom the Weekly News, May 8.) We have received from a gentleman well informed in native matters, and who has recently visited the East Coast, some important information respecting the native meeting at Ohineroa, and the doing 9 of the leading Hauhau desperadoes Our informant has nerived his information from the very best native sources. The native meeting at Ohineroa was attended by the Hauhaus in very large numbers, the Hauhau felon Kereopa being amongst the number. The meeting also included a number of so-called friendly natives. Over 600 gallons of rum, which had been purchased in the Waikato ,was drunk. A great deal of speechifying took place, as is inevitable where so much rum and Maori loquacity and impudence are found in combination. Amongst others the notorious Kereopa, who like some bad spirit, seems ever present in the midst of evil, made a speech in the course of which he boasted that had Te Kooti come to Tauranga he (Kereopa) would have joined him. This miscreant goes a bout in a kind of body-guard of eight men, who are decked out in a kind of uniform—in all probability the clothes stripped from Europeans —and are armed to the teeth. He goes about himself with a. double-barrelled gun, two revolvers, and a sword. Kings and other trinkets, as well as money, are said to be very plentiful amongst the Hauhaus, and which have been taken from the homesteads of the settlers or stolen from the persons of murdered victims. Another feast was being held, in a forest a short distance above Ohineroa, and was of a more private character than that at Oninei'oa itself. Several women from Te Kooti's band were present. It is said that Tawhiao had intimated his intention to attend the meeting. The Hauhaus boast that they are in receipt of money from the Thames district. Our informant furnishes us with particulars of a most diabolical murder committed upon an unfortunate native woman. It appears that a native who had previously professed friendship towards the Europeans decided on joining Te Kooti, and endeavored to persuade his wife to accompany him. She, however, absolutely refused to do so, and the man went without her. Subsequently a party of Te Kooti's scouts, amongst whom was this native, captured the women while she was travelling. She was in an advanced state state of pregnancy, and a messenger was despatched to head quarters to ask Te Kooti what was to be done with the women. The order of the demoniacal Hauhau leader was that she was to be disembowelled and cut to pieces, and the monsters faithfully executed the order. This intelligence was given to our informant by a native woman who is well acquainted with Te Kooti's doings. Kereopa has decided that he will not move out of his own district to assist Te Kooti, unless the latter is successful.