Presence of Public

Hawke's Bay Herald-Tribune, Issue 127, 15 June 1937, Page 6

Presence of Public

EXCLUDED FOR SOME OF EVIDENCE Dr. Berry Not Permitted to Remain in Court COMMISSION'S RULINGS The public have been excluded from attendance at certain portions of the hospital inquiry relating to the Shrimpton Ward investigation. This order was imposed when the Royal Commission resumed its sitting yesterday afternoon. An order was made that the names of witnesses and parents and children involved he not published When the commission resumed in readiness for the hearing of eVidence, Mr N. A. Foden, Crown Solicitor, said that it might be deemed desirable to consider the question of excluding the public, either fiom the whole of the inquiry or from such portions of it as it thought desirable. There was also the question o± excluding witnesses until such time as they were required to give evidence. "It seems to me," Mr Foden continued, "that tha situation that has arisen renders it most desirable that every precaution should be taken to ensure that there is a full and frank disclosure "on all pomts on the part of every wiiness. Unless this is done it might be found that there is a certaiu reticence or disinclination to speak i'reely and openly." "I have been considering that point, and all I am concerned with is that the interests of justiee in this .district, as f'ar as the Royal' Commission is concerned," should be maintained," said Mr Mosley in reply. "In order that that might be so, it is necessary that every witness who comes before us should speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That is what we want, and I am eatisfied that is what the people in this district want to get at. If the witnesses speak the truth, they can safely leave themselvea in the hands of this commission. Interests of Justiee. "It seems to me that it would be in the interests of justiee to exclude the public during ponods in which certain witnesses give their evidence, and I propose to do that. When it becomes necessary that this should be done, I will make * an order excluding the public.' This applies to only certain aspects of the hearing, as we desire, and I am sure you all do, that it should be as open as the day." Mjr Foden pointed out that the Shrimpton Ward disease was a question which would cause diificulty. It seemed to him that the names used should not reach the public. ' Mr Mosley: Qh, I am with you there." He then made an order that thc names of children or their parents should not be published by the Pre3s. Mr Foden: Are you making a ruliug regarding the public, otherwise the object of not publishing names would be defeated? Mr Mosley: I think we will have to carry dt further and exclude the public during the hearing of that portion of the evidence. I think that the public will. not objeet to being excluded during the- hearing of paragraph one of the order of reference. An order to this effect was then inado. A Diificulty. Mr Mosley suggested that as a right the chairman of the board, the medical superintendent and the matron should be admitted. Mr Foden: That will create a difficulty. They are represented by counsel. If it is in the interests of a witness to have them present, counsel can make che suggestion. If tho matron is here while the nurses are giving; their evidence dt may defeat the obtaining oi the f rankness which we desire. Mr Lawry: I would like it made clear as to whether the order excludes Dr. Berry. In the interests of justiee no serious disadvantage would come ihrough him being here. He would be of material assistance to me. Mr Foden: I must opposo iho application for Dr. Berry to be allowed to remain. Dr. Berry as certainly paramount in the matter relating to •Shrimpton Ward. It is well known that Dr. Berry 's position at the hospital is such that his presence would not be in the interests' of tho objects of the inquiry. I don't think that any exception should be made in his case. My friend is well enough versed to take notes and ko can confer with Dr. Berry in the evening. Dr. Berry 's position in this matter is of such a nature that his presence would make dt difficult to couduet an inquiry in tho interests of all concerned. Mr Grant: Dr. Berry is not on trial. lle is merely a witness. and like others ho should bc out of tlie Court if we arc to gct at tlie truth of the matter. Mr Mosley: I am afraid that the presence of Dr. Berry would have a detrimental effect on some of the witnesses. Mr Lawry: If this is the case, I will wjllidraw my opposition. Dr. Berry then left the courtroom. An order was then made that all witnesses except expert witnesses be excluded from the courtroom.