RAILWAY EXTENSION COMMISSION.

Globe, Volume XXIV, Issue 2690, 21 November 1882, Page 3

RAILWAY EXTENSION COMMISSION.

The Middle Island Railway Extension Commissioners commenced their sittings in Christchurch yesterday in the old Provincial Council buildings, all the members being present—namely, the Hon. Dr. Pollen, M.L.C. (chairman), Mr J. Pulton, M.H.R., and Mr J. Thomson, late surveyorgeneral. At three o’clock the deputation appointed by the committee of the Railway League waited upon the Commission. The deputation comprised the following gentlemen:—The Hon. E. Richardson, C.M.G., Messrs T. S. Weston, M.H.R., J. G.Ruddenklau (Mayor of Christchurch), T. Pavitt, W. Chrystall, C. E. Button, D. Reese, A. G. Howland, J. Inglis and T. B. Craig. His Worship the Mayor having introduced the members of the deputation to the Commissioners, Mr Richardson said—l have been asked to bo to some extent the spokesman on this occasion, and I have first to ask you, as Commissioners, whether the terms of your Commission will allow of your examining the various routes that have been surveyed and reported on from time to time between this part of the island and .the West Coast. The Chairman —The terms of the commission, which, no doubt, the members of the deputation have seen, confine us to reporting upon the several main trunk lines, or any of them, leaving Canterbury and going northwards, and any West Coast line, properly so called, would scarcely come within the terms of our commission. The terms of the commission are very distinct in that respect. It says that we are to report and inquire “ into the probable cost and the economic value of the several linos proposed for the extension of the main trunk line through the Middle Island northwards from Canterbury.” And it says also, “to inquire further whether any other line would be less costly and more advantageous to the colony”—that is, any other line going northwards in that direction. Mr Richardson —Of course the Commission understand that there are various interests represented in this room, and some of the interests here are particularly anxious that the Commission should deem it part of their duty to take into their consideration some, at all events, of those routes which have been so far called West Coast routes, but which at the same time might be considered of such importance that they would be called trunk lines, without absolutely in the first instance going direct north. I need hardly mention any of the routes, but I think the Commission will follow me that the nearest possible way that communication can be got between this side of the island and the two main centres of population on the other, and that could in any way be considered by you to form part of the main trunk line—that in regard to such route or routes the deputation would only be too glad if you would examine and report upon them.

The Chairman —That, I think, is a matter that would fairly come within the scope of the Commission.

Mr Richardson—The deputation understand that the Government have placed before you all.the reports that have been so far made by the various Government officials since the inauguration of the public works scheme, and amongst them will bo found two or three routes, and one at all events that was particularly referred to by Mr Macandrcw in his public works statement of 1878 as being a line which it would be very desirable to make as part of the trunk line. That was the line through from Amborley to Brunnerton, part of which has already been constructed. I think from your answer to the deputation just now that possibly you may bo able to take that into your consideration and report upon it. The League which has been formed here has viewed with considerable alarm the intention, or supposed intention, of the Government to construct a railway along the East Coast of this island direct north ; and one object of the league will be to convince the Canterbury members and the Government, and now to endeavour to convince the Commission, that it is absolutely inadvisable to construct such a line. I think I am safe in saying that they also consider that what is known as the partinland and part-coast route has very much the same objection: and, further, that the line which from public rumor the deputation are led to believe the Commission have already examined, namely, the route coming down direct from the Top House through the centre of this part of the island, is also objectionable for many reasons. And we now wish to ask whether you will take into consideration and critically examine and report upon the route which was proposed in 1873 and XS7-I. In fact, I think from your position, Mr Chairman, you will remember that at an earlier date than that it was proposed that the trunk line northwards should go somewhere through the hills, and join the line which was adopted by Parliament, and has been recognised all through, to connect Nelson with Greymouth and Hokitika. That, the deputation consider, must come within the scope of your Commission without a doubt. But we are not aware from the papers wo have seen hero that sufficient attention has been called to that route, and we are particularly anxious that before reporting on this question you should, at all events, have all the information, and I believe I am right in saying that there is ample to enable you to form a conclusion as between the various routes without requiring more detailed obserlßltion, except it be a verification of

the statements which have been made as to the natural resources of that part of the country, by the Government Geologist or whoever you may deem necessary to consult in the matter. I think the Commission will see that there are two points there. One is, that one large interest that is represented here to-day is particularly anxious that the trunk line should, as far as possible, accommodate the interests on the West Coast; and the other is, that in whatever direction this lino may go, it should bo taken where, in the terms of your Commission, it will be of the greatest advantage, commercially and otherwise, to the interests of the colony at large. I think that is about what I have been requested to say here to-day. You have already said that you think any line which can be shown to form part of the trunk line will come within the scope of your Commission, and we will hope to hear from you that one or two, at all events, of the lines we desire, will so come within your Commission.

The Chairman—l can only say, gentlemen, that the Commission are in search of information, and will most gladly receive any information on the subject which has been committed to it for investigation from any quarter from which it may come. I am quite aware, from my own personal recollection, that the line originally contemplated by the Government in 1873 and 1874, proposed to make a connection with the West Coast of the Middle Island. But I observe, from the terms of the resolution which has been transmitted to the Commission by the League, that the deputation have been instructed to prepare statistics and other information for the Commission with respect to the main trunk line northwards, as well as to the West Coast. Although, as I said, we cannot report specially upon any West Coast line so called, we shall be very glad indeed to receive information upon a particular portion of that line which may bo said properly to form a portion of the main trunk line northwards—that is to say, that any portion of the line from Canterbury northwards across the ranges to the West Coast, to any particular part of the West Coast—which might properly be said to form part of the line to the north, would be held to be part of the subject upon which we would require information, and which it would be competent for us to report upon. The only question that would remain then is as to the form in which that information should be communicated to us. It will be, I think, convenient, if the deputation see fit, that one of their number should be deputed to prepare all the statistical information which you desire to give us on the question of this route generally, so as to present it to the Commission in as compendious a form as possible, that they may have it in the clearest and most convenient shape. I don’t know whether I have sufficiently answered he question which you put to me. If there is any other information you desire to have as to the intentions of the Commissioners and the purport of their visit, I shall he very glad to give it. Mr Weston—l understand from the remarks you have been good enough to make that you would not regard a direct line from Christchurch to Brunnerton, for instance, as a line within the terms of your Commission.

The Chairman—Clearly not. Mr Weston—Would you and your colleagues regard a line from Hanmer Plains to Nelson Creek as a line within the terms of your Commission ? The Chairman—l think not; unless you could show us that that was really a portion of a trunk line North—that is the indispensable limit, I take it, of our jurisdiction.

Mr Weston—But from your answer to Mr Richardson I conclude that you would regard a line, for instance, from Hanmer Plains up to Reefton, and from Reefton direct to Nelson or Blenheim, as the case might be, as one within the terms of your Commission. The Chairman —Not even so I think. I cannot specify any particular route. I said, generally, that any line taking the west side of the main range that would properly form part of the main trunk line would come within our inquiry. Mr Weston—Then I understand that the Commission would not even bind themselves to take in Reefton en route 1

The Chairman—Not specifically at present. We have only to do with that which is within the four corners of our commission, and making a line to any particular point on the West Coast would be certainly outside of it.

Mr Weston—l followed you somewhat carefully, and you said that you would be glad to regard any portion of a line that might ultimately lead to the West Coast— The Chairman—To receive information. Mr Weston—But of course it would be quite evident that half a line, or for instance half the length to the West Coast, would be for all profitable purposes per sc useless. * Mr Button—Would it be competent for the Commission in the report which it will send in to make any reference to the strong representations that might be made as to the urgent requirements of a West Coast line ?

The Chairman—We should be very glad to receive that as part of the information which the committee might submit to the Commission.

Mr Weston—l understand you to say that you would not report specially upon information of that kind—that it; would bo beyond the terms of your commission. The Chairman—We should be very glad to receive it, but we have no authority to report upon it. It is entirely outside our commission.

Mr Ruddenklau—lf that is your answer I think our mission will have been .almost useless. It was understood to be part of your instructions to examine into and report as to the utility of a trunk line to be extended along the West Coast to Nelson. As far as Canterbury is concerned we consider both the East Coast line and the inland line to be premature, and not in the interests of the public. We consider that the only line in the interests of the public is one via the West Coast. The whole province, I may say, is unanimous in that opinion. We have formed a league consisting of representatives from the different local bodies, and they are all of opinion, without exception, that the .£IBO,OOO should be devoted to a line via the West Coast. As the Commission is going to examine into the best route, we want to ascertain positively if it comes within their powers to consider the advisability of constructing the main trunk lino via the West Coast. We consider that the other lines are premature. They are at present fancy lines. The country cannot afford to construct them yet, and they will not pay interest on the capital expended, nor will they be beneficial to the public. Mr Weston—lt seems to me, from the remarks you made, Mr Chairman, that after all you will be left pretty much to one of two lines—either the East Coast proper, or from Canterbury to Top House. Could you not regard Reefton as a point en route. I have here a plan. [Plan produced and examined.] Mr Reese—l gather from the answer given to Mr Richardson, that the Commission will be prepared to receive any information with regard to the necessity for a railway to the West Coast, so long as wo do not attempt to lay down a particular route.

The Chairman—lt being understood that it is entirely without our province. Mr Eeese—Tho only question is whether the latter part of tho commission does not give you that province, and the answer we have received from a member of the Government here would leadns to believe that you are prepared to report on the advisability or otherwise of a railway to the West Coast.

The Chairman —Nothing is clearer from the terms of the commission than that our duties are confined to discovering and reporting on routes for a main trunk line northwards.

Mr Eeese —I think the latter part of the commission refers to any other railway that would bo beneficial to tho interests of the country. The Chairman —The meaning Is very plain that the line must be carried northwards —“ any other trunk line.” Mr Eeese —Mr Foy reported on a main trunk line northwards going from Amberley to Brunnerton and from Brunnerton to Nelson. Would that not come within your

province as a main trunk line northwards ?

The Chairman—Hardly, I think. A line going south-west can hardly ha said to be a line going northwards. The object is by the shortest main route to connect the ports of the North Island with the ports of the South Island.

Mr Reese—The whole object of the Canterbury people has been to get, if possible, connection with the West Coast in preference to having the East Coast railway. We cannot see the necessity for the E.ast Coast railway, and I would like to give yon a few statistics to show that Canterbury is a great producing province. East year Canterbury exported more than all the other provinces of New Zealand; consequently we want consuming power, and if we had railway communication with the West Coast we would be able to get minerals to supply our local industries in and around Christchurch. We want to be able to encourage our local industries, and at the same time to increase the population of the unexplored portions of the West Coast. We desire to get as direct communication with the WestCoastas possible. We are prepax-ed to leave the route to the Government, if they will only consent to go into the question of a West Coast railway.

The Chairman—That of course is a question not for the Commission, but for the Government and the Legislature. All we have to do is to follow the direction and use the authority which has been given to us, which is very definite, as you see. Mr Reese—Then anything we could do would not have the effect of getting you to report on the West Coast railway ?

The Chairman—Of giving us authority to make a report specially on the West Coast railway, certainly not. I put it to you plainly, as being quite outside our jurisdiction. I would point out that there is another way in which the interests of the West Coast might be very greatly forwarded, and that is by a deflection of the line to the west side of the main range. In that sense I think it would be well for you not to give up the further prosecution of the inquiry you have begun. Mr Reese—Mr Foy’s No. 3 route is an extension northwards, and goes over what is known as the Amuri Pass, up the Wairau and up the Hope river, and down to Brunnerton. Anything like that would suit the greatest population on the West Coast. The population on the West Coast is something like 15,000, as against 7000 on the Nelson side of the Grey, on the Reefton goldfields ; and there is an unexplored portion of the West Coast extending for 150 miles, from Hokitika to Jackson’s Bay. What we want, if possible, is to try to divert the construction of the East Coast railway to the West Coast, and give Canterbury as direct communication with the West Coast as possible.

The Chairman—That the Commission has no power to do of course. Mr Pavitt—l regret to find that the duties of the Commission are so strictly limited to the extension of the Northern trunk line. We as a body have come to urge the necessity for the construction of the West Coast railway, but as far as I can form an opinion any information wc might be able to supply you with would bo almost valueless to achieve the object we have in view. I take it that unless we can prove to you that a line to the West Coast would form portion of the main trunk line to the North, whether to Nelson or Blenheim ultimately, our duties are simply at an end, and it seems that we have occupied your time this afternoon needlessly. We were led to think from the remarks made by the Minister for Public Works the other day that you would be in a position to receive information regarding the construction of the West (.'oast railway, as well as to hear what we had to say why the construction of the East Coast railway should be delayed. There can be no question that the whole body of the Canterbury public are very clear as to the uselessness of the construction of the one, and the advantages to be derived from the construction of the other. lam sorry that our duties seem to have been almost valueless so far. Mr Ruddenklau—l would add to what Mr Pavibt has said that as you have no power to consider the West Coast line the best plan for us to pursue would be to endeavor to induce the Government to amend your instructions, so as to enable you to report upon the West Coast line as one of the main trunk lines. I am quite certain that Canterbury will not he satisfied with any other recommendation, and that the work of the Commission will not he satisfactory to ths province. While there is time I think it would he well for the League to ask the Government to enlarge the powers of the Commission, so as to enable it to consider the advisability of the trunk line going via the West Coast. Mr Weston—After what you have said, Mr Chairman, perhaps I need hardly ask you whether you will he prepared to inspect any of the routes connecting the East and West Coasts.

The Chairman—That would depend altogether upon the evidence as to the practicability of the routes, and the advantages that would be gained by a deflection of the line in that way. It was on that point that we expected to receive assistance and information from the deputation. We do not refuse to listen to information on the subject of the West Coast proper, hut we cannot report upon it. Our duties are strictly confined to the main trunk line, not going to the West, but going to the North—that is, the main trunk line connecting Canterbury with some port in Cook’s Strait.

Mr Weston—Of course you have before you the reports of the several engineers on the various routes, and I think Mr Blair, reporting on Arthur’s Pass, refers to the commercial value of the line, and Messrs Thornton and Brown in their survey, and Mr O’Connor in his report, also touch upon its commercial worth. If you thought fit to inspect that line, with all that data before you, we should be glad, on your return, to supply you with further information that might perhaps assist you in estimating its business value, and so forth. But wo are not prepared at this moment with a bundle of statistics, seeing that it was only a day or two ago that we heard you would be here shortly. Mr Howlaud—l understand that the Commission is prepared to receive information on any of the proposed routes, and will report on the information but not on the lines—that you cannot report on any line unless the league can show that it will be part of the main trunk line ?

The Chairman —I have said that the duties of the Commission are confined absolutely to reporting’ upon the best route for the main trunk line connecting Canterbury with some Northern port in Cook’s Strait; that the West Coast line properly so called is not included in our Commission at all, and is entirely beyond our jurisdiction. And I will say more, that the West Coast lino proper has not been, so far as I understand, in contemplation by the Legislature at all, inasmuch as no specific appropriation has been made for a West Coast line ; and that being the case, before the mind of the Legislature was known on the subject, it would not be competent for the Government, except for the sake of collecting information, to issue a commission for the purpose of determining such a question. What we have to do is outside that. But it is possible that in exercising the jurisdiction that has been confided to us you might be able to show that it would bo exceedingly desirable to take the lino northwards on the west side of the range, and if that could be accomplished I think that the interests of the West Coast would be very considerably promoted by such a deviation of the line. At any rate it would be worth while for the deputation and the persons interested in such a subject to assist us in the way in which it is proposed in tbe resolution of the League to do, by giving us all the information and statistics which would show that such a deviation was desirable. Once the railway was made through any best available pass in these ranges to the West Coast all the rest would follow as population increased and the necessities of the districts arose. No doubt Parliament would take care that the interests of the West Coast would not be neglected in the future as they have not been in the past. Members have hitherto been active enough in the discharge of their duties in protecting the interests of their constituents, and no doubt in the

fnture there will be an opportunity of getting something more done. If to much could be accomplished, or if it could be shown to us that this portion of the West Coast lino could properly be regarded as a part of the trunk line northwards, a groat deal of what the advocates of the West Coast line desire would be attained. It is on that account that I think it would be wise for the deputation not to throw up the sponge at once, but to apply themselves to showing the advantages of that particular lino, and the nature of the country, and give the Commission such information as will enable us to come to a proper decision on the subject. Mr Howland—l understand that yon would he prepared to receive information on a line which is considered a main trunk line—any information regarding the West Coast line. The Chairman —We must not fence with words. I endeavored to make myself perfectly plain. The Commissioners have no sentiment whatever. We have no prejudice and no preconceived opinion upon any possible line. We seek to do the best we can, and we seek the assistance of everybody disposed to help ns in arriving at a proper decision. But do not let us fence about words. I say at once that the West Coast line proper is entirely out of our jurisdiction; we have nothing whatever to do with it. No provision for making it has been made, and cannot be made just nowMr Button—You have to report on the way of getting to Cook’s Strait, not to the West Coast ?

The Chairman—Exactly. Mr Inglis—l presume that if we could put before the Commission information that would show that the probable traffic on the East Coast line would be extremely small, and that another route might be pointed out which would bring an amount of traffic very much in excess of that on the East Coast, you would he prepared to receive any information regarding that other line.

The Chairman—We would he very happy to receive such information.

Mr Inglis—With regard to the East Coast line, the general feeling in this part of the island is that there cannot possibly be any paying traffic on it for many years to come. As to the line direct by Hanmer Plains and by the Top House, of the engineering difficulties of course we know very little, but it is at all events known to be a somewhat impracticable line, inasmuch as it is subject to snow to a very great extent, and that the nature of the country itself is not such as would ou' likely to produce any trade whatever. Then, on the other hand, leaving the third route, which is merely a slight alteration of the East Coast line, there is the route to Reefton, which, as I understand, was proposed as far back as 1873 or 1874. This is supposed to start from the Red Post on the Waiau, to go up the Waiau and over one or other of the saddles and find its way to Eeefton itself. If the League can show that along a considerable part of that route there is a great quantity of timber, gold, coal and minerals of all kinds, which would be carried by the line and a traffic, then I presume it would not be unreasonable for the League to expect that the Commission would receive such information, as in the direction of connecting Christchurch say with Cook’s Strait. I know something of the route myself, having been over a considerable part of it, and by getting to Reefton we meet the railway which is proposed to go to Nelson, and at the Tophouse, if funds are available, there will be no difficulty in connecting with Blenheim. So that we narrow it very much to this position—that as long as we can show that there is a route that practically takes us north the Commission will be quite prepared to receive all information we can give on the subject. The Chairman —Quite so. Mr Inglis—l may say that I can help the Commission and, I think, can produce the evidence of gentlemen acquainted with the country to show that a direct route to the Tophouse is quite inadmissible. I should be very sorry by anything I might say to induce the Commissioners to go over the routes themselves. It is quite unnecessary. I had the pleasure of having a very nice trip, though a wet one, to the West Coast some little time ago, and the conclusion we came to was that we could have got our information without going over the route at all. I think the League might assist the Commission very much by furnishing statistics of all the different routes proposed. The Chairman—That is exactly the information the Commission most desire.

Mr Chrystall—l understand you to say that you could not report upon any line involving a deviation as far west as Reefton ? The Chairman—l cannot answer that question. I cannot say any more than I have done—that generally we are bound by the terms of the Commission, and that while we are willing to receive any information on the subject of the West Coast railway, it must be clearly understood that the duty of reporting on a line to the West Coast is not in any way within the four corners of our Commission. We are directed to report on the best route for a main trunk line northwards. Mr Richardson—All the routes that have been directly or indirectly referred to in this room to-day are. laid down on the various maps, which probably are in your hands, and I would suggest that two or three gentlemen should be appointed to wait upon the Commission and ascertain on the map which of the toutes you would take into your consideration, and then we could get any statistics you might want to enable you to come to your own conclusion thereon. The Chairman—l think the Commission would be very glad to adopt that suggestion. We may be said to have broken the ice of this inquiry. The work of collecting statistics and giving evidence can. of course be more conveniently done by one or two persons. Mr Richardson—l might perhaps ha allowed to ask you to indicate what your movements will be—whether you arc going to remain any length of time in Christchurch, or whether you are going away to return again. The Chairman —If the deputation is prepared to go on and give us the information we want w r e will remain as long as it is necessary to get it. W T e are waiting for Mr O’Connor, who is expected here on Wednesday. The information we would be glad to get would be with respect to the nature of the country and the difficulties of that particular line that would cross through the Cannibal Gorge and up by the nearest route to the junction of the Maruia and to the Top House, and so down the Wairau plains to Blenheim, or the other way to Nelson.

Mr Weston—Would you require special information with regard to the Northern routes ? The Chairman—Yes. Mr Reese—Do we understand that the statistics and information we may give with reference to the West Coast lino will have some kind of report attached to it ? or are we to gather information without any hope of a report on the West Coast Railway ? The Chairman —I do not know that wo could report on the West Coast Railway officially at all. No harm would bo done in giving us any information. W; don’t refuse to receive it. We have no authority about tbe West Coast Riilway at all. Mr Richardson—l think as far as this meeting to-day is concerned, that is all wo need trouhlo.you with. Wo thank you f'” - the patient hearing you have given us,‘and, no' doubt, the hints you have thrown out will be availed of, and a communication will reach you as to who has been appointed by the league to afford you all the information they can collect. The deputation then withdrew. The Commission sat at two o’clock, and took the evidence of Mr Edward Dobson, who was examined with reference to a survey of the East Coast route made by him for the Government about four years ago. His evidence chiefly had reference to the section of the lino between the Waiau ond Kaikoura, a distance of twenty-seven miles. In describing the character of the land through which the line would pass, Mr Dobson said it was mostly pastoral, and a very small area was under cultivation, and there was little or no population in the district.