GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXIV, Issue 2584, 19 July 1882, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PRESS ASSOCIATION'TELEGRAM.J

LEGISLATIVE. COUNCIL.

Tuesday, July 18. QUESTIONS. In reply to the Hon, Captain Fraser, The Hon, Mr Whitaker said that the question as to the Omarunui block, Hawke’e Bay, and how it shall be settled with the Natives, was under the consideration of the Government. LAW PRACTITIONERS ACT. The Hon. Mr Whitaker moved the second reading of his Law Practitioners Bill, and a Jong debate followed, several members objecting to the Bill being gone on with until Sir George Grey’s Bill came uc from the House. Ultimately the second reading was carried, and the Bill was referred to a Select Committee, it being understood that in dealing with it they would take aleo the Statute Revision Commissions and Sir George Grey’s Bills on the same snbjoot, and put what portions of each they think desirable into it. RIGHT HOURS RILL. The Hon. Mr McLean moved the second reading of the Eight Hours Bill. A large number of members spoke against it, contending that it could do no possible good, and if it had any effect at all it would be a mischievous one, as disturbing the present relations between employers and employed. The Bill was thrown out by 17 to 9. For the Bill—Messrs Dignan, Fraser, Henderson, McLean, Pharazyn, Bobinson, Scotland, Whitmore, and Wilson, Against the Bill—Messrs Brett, Grace, Gray, Hart, Holmes, Menzies, Millar, Nurse, Oliver, Peacock, Pollen, Reynolds, Richmond, Stevens, Whitaker, Williams, and Williamson. The Council adjourned at 6 p.m.

HOUSE OF BEPBBSBNI ATI VES. Tuesday, July 18. The House met at 2 30. NATIVE AFFAIRS. Nearly the whole afternoon was taken up with the discussion on a report of the Native Affairs Committee on the petition of some Natives at Birerton, complaining about being deprived of certain reserves. The committee reported that the petition should lie on the table and be referred to the Government. Mr Daniel objected that the evidence of the Natives had not been taken. Mr J. O. Brown moved that the report be referred back to the committee to take further evidence. After a long discussion this was agreed to on the voices. Mr Peldwick moved that the committee be empowered to pay the expenses of all necessary witnesses. A further discussion, in which a large number of members participated, took place. On a division the ayes were 42 and the noes 42. The Speaker said that on the ground of saving public expense ho was bonnd to vote with the noes. Tho addition therefore was negatived, and the motion to refer it back was carried, CEMETERY BILL. A Bill intituled the Auckland University Bill was received by message from the Governor. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr J, G. Wilson, The Hon. Mr Bolleston said he could not give a decided answer as to altering survey regulations, to have the side and back lines of bush sections out and pegged before sale. It would be done where necessary. It would be unwise to legalise the lines of private surveyors. Replying to Mr Joyce, The Hon Mr Dick said the Government did not intend to bring in any Bill enabling part of one borough to sever its connection in order to incorporate with another more conveniently situated. Such an alteration might be desirable, but it was impossible to make it this session. The Government also did not propose to select the area of town districts under-the Act of 1881.

Replying to Mr Joyce, who asked if it wn true that the locomotive foreman, M'Kenzie, at present stationed at Invercargill, war some years ago dismissed the public service, and it so on whose recommendation he was reinstated and placed in a position of responsibility over the heads of other servants, against whom no disqualification existed. The Hon. Mr Johnston said that when the present superintendent of locomotives took charge some years ago, M'Kenzie was found employed on the Canterbury lines as a driver. He had distinguished himself by steadiness and ability, and had therefore been promoted to his present position. It was true that some thirteen years ago M'Kenzie had been dismissed by the Canterbury authorities, not for drunkenness as Mr Joyce said, but for inattention, but he had been reinstated, and had since proved himself a more than usually meritorious servant. He thought it most ungenerous to rake up this matter as the hon. member bad done.

Mr Joyce said he thought be had done a generous thing in giving M’Kenzie a chance of having his character vindicated. He did not know the man personally. Replying to Mr Harris,

The Hon. Mr Johnston said enquiry would be made as to the expenditure of the sum of £3OO paid to the Rangitobia Bead Board for the road Te Awamutu to Pueri river.

Replying to Mr Bracken (for Mr Pish), The Hon. Mr Johnston said that some engines bad been sent from Invercargill to Christchurch for repairs, as the workshops at Hillside, Dunedin, were unable to overtake the work required of them, Replying to Mr I. Wilson,

The Hon. Mr Johnston said that when the Government had called for tenders for the manufacture of railway rolling stock in the colony, the cost was found to be prohibitive.

Replying to Mr Petrie, The Hon. Mr Johnston said that the railway employes on the Brunner line were paid according to a scale which had not been affected by the 10 per cent, reduction. They received £5 per cent, goldfields allowance. Replying to Mr Levin, The Hon. Mr Dice promised to consider the propriety of offering a bonus for the first 100 tons of wattle bark, suitable for tanning purposes, grown in the colony. Replying to Mr Tole, It was stated by the Hon. Mr Dice that to provide all the Auckland married constables with rent allowance in lieu of free quarters, would cost £9OO a year, and of canrse if done there it would have to be done elsewhere, which would cost another £3500 a year. The Government did not feel justified in incurring such an expenditure.

Beplying to Mr Tola, The Hon. Mr Johnston said he could not promise any reduction in rates ot the Auck-land-Helensville railway in connection with the fish curing industry recently established at Helensville. Beplying to Mr Daniel,

It was said that the Government were not aware of any representation having reached it of the loss likely to arise to individuals in mining companies by the destruction by fire of the important documents in the fire at the Biverton Court house,

Beplying to Mr Pearson, The Hon. Mr Johnston said he would miquire as to the propriety ot converting the old engine shed at Bennett’s junction into a goods shed. The Government had not sufficient information as to whether a refresh-ment-room was required at Kangiora junction, but if ono were found necessary it would be erected.

Beplying to Mr McMillan, The Bon, Mr Johnston raid ha would arrange for a station-master being stationed at the station on north back of Sslwyn river at least during the grain season, Beplying to Mr De Lantour, The Hon. Mr Eom-bston said the Government were taking steps to ascertain the intentions of tho Dunedin High School trustees with regard to their intention* as to tho disposal of the High School endowments in Strath Taiexi.

Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hou. Mr Bbyce said that a provisional agreement with Messrs Studholme,

Moorbouse and Co. for a lease to them of the Murimutu block would be found in the Parliamentary papers for 1875. Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon. Mr Boixbbton said he considered the Volunteer Land Claims Commissioners had adhered to the terms of their commission in the inquiry they had eon-' ducted. Mr Tohoana asked whether the Government have considered the letter of the Chief Judge Fenton in reference to the Omarnrui block, dated the 13th day of October, 1881, and whether it it intended to take any action

thereon in accordance with the suggestion of the Chief Judge. He read a letter from the Oluef Judge Fenton, admitting that the Court had made a mistake, and improperly included block 6 in its award without having _ any power to do so, and expressing an opinion that the Crown grants could be rescinded by writ of scire facias. The Hon. Mr Betob said the question was one of considerable difficulty, and one whioh had frequently been before committees of the House, As to the legal question, he did not wish to give an opinion, but asked for a postponement of a week, to enable the Government to more fully consider the matter. WEST HEADING. The Gisborne Harbor Board Bill, introduced by Mr McDonald, was read the first time. The House adjourned at 5.30. EYfiNING^irTING. The House resumed at 7.30.

LAND BILL. _ The debate on the ]>,nd Bill was con-

tinued by Col.’ Tbimblb, who spoke in favour of tbt Bill. It was an experimental measure, to be applied only to a limited extent, until iti value _ was tested. That was one of its great beauties. It only proposed to add anoth r te the existing systems of dealing with the public estate. So long as a sufficiently secure tenure was obtained, it mattered little whether the land was freehold or leasehold. The proposed leasehold tenure was, he thought, absolutely perfect. There was only a very small percentage of defaulters amongst the deferred payment settlers. There were only about 600 out of 10,000, and all the complaints came from one part of the colony. The very largo number of these settlers in his Dart of the country were quite satisfied, Dnder the leasehold proposals a tenant could mortgage, not his land, but his improvements, and that was quite sufficient. He would like to see the leasing system first applied to the reserves for various purposes throughout the colony. He quoted Indian experience to show the value of a leasing system. The only difficulty, he said, was t’ e possibility of constant political pressure to obtain a reduction of rents. In certain cases of the value of money decreased this would only be fair, and the percentage of rent here, as in India, would at times have to be revised. It had been argued that during the last few years of hisrtenanoy the tenant would take all he could out of the land, depreciating it in value, but the valuer would take this Into account, and he did not see how the tenant would escape. He was of opinion that the Bill would do good. Several alterations might be made in committee. He would give the Bill his very cordial support. Mr _ Hutchison was desirous of expressing his gratification at the introduction of the Bill. If worked well the Bill would have very beneficent results, perhaps more than the promoter anticipated. Several members had referred to interpretation of the word"improvements.” He (Mr Hutchison) would in committee endeavor to introduce into the BUI his idea of what interpretation should be put on this word. It was high time there was a change in the land system. It had been said that the occupiers would not pay their rents, and the State could not compel them to do so, but he was unable to understand such a notion. What was wanted was that there should be a numerous population settled on the land, and he would do all in his power to bring about such a desirable state of things. The principle of the Bill was, in some degree, theoretical, but he hoped the House would make it practical. The Government had an opportunity of settling a larger population on the Otago runs, and such an opportunity would not soon occur again. It was said that the Government were compelled to act es they did, but he entirely dissented from such a statement. He thought 200 acres would be a very fair average in this country, and in committee would try to make an alteration in this respect. Clauses 3 to 4,0 should be eliminated, as he thought they were obstructive. With regard to the deferred payment settlers, he thought this Bill might be made to answer all the purposes required. Mr Peacock would express bis entire disapproval of the Bill if made applicable to the whole of the colony, but was reconciled to the Bill to some extent as it was only to be partial in its operation. He would vote for the second reading of the Bill, but ii committee would endeavor to effect an alteration.

Mr Shepkeed thought the changes proposed in tha .Bill were of such a nature as to require tha closest attention. He did not wonder at the term “ revolutionary ” being applied to them. Ho admitted that the Bill prov ded for “fixity of tenure at a price,” but “fixity c£ tenure” as to its condition would depend upon the Government who appointed Che umpire, or tha third arbitrator. The conditions of fixity of tenure wore exceedingly harsh and cruel, and the people under such conditions would be slaves to the soil. Free sale was limited at the will of the Board aa provided in clause 20. It would be far better to say that mortgaging should not bo allowed than impose the conditions of this Bill. There could be no danger in the ballot system which had been proposed if there was sufficient land thrown open at one time. The cultivation conditions and the obligations entered into by the lessee were the key of the whole Bill. Moat of the land to be dealt with by this measure would be bush land or land covered with scrub, and provision was not made for the coat incurred in clearing the bush, breaking up the land, or even’in laying down grass, but these were improvements which would coot more than the building to be erected. A good deal was to be sail for the nationalisation of tha land. The interpretation of the word improvements ih the Land Aot of 1878 should take the place of tha words in the present Bill " improvements of a permanent character.’' If a new departure ought to be taken, it ought to be taken aa much in the interest of the oul ivator as that of the Colonial Treasurer.’ The terms of leasing ought to be altered, so that the terms of the bargains could be carried out uprightly. As the Biil slocd ho regretted that it had been brought down. It was unsound, unjust and unworkable. It was certain it could never get through the House in its present state.

Mr RriHEBroED, speaking from Irish experience, defended the leasing system. Ho denied that its effect was injurious there, or the cause of tha existing difficulties there. In Scotland too tha landlords and tenants’ system acted well, although the conditions of the leases were being revised in accordance with more scientific knowledge as to rotation of crops, artificial manures, &c. This Bill would put the Now Zealand tenants in the same position ae the Scotch, Irish, and English wished to be put in. Ho had no fear of the political power of the tenant or of their exhausting the land by overcropping. He would not object to see proof required that men possessed, sufficient capital before being to take up a lease. He did not wish to sefiP“tne other existing systems of disposing of land dons away with, nor would he hamper any man aa to the quantity of land ho could take uc.

Mr Stbtbis's strougly urged the necessity for elective Land Boirda. Ho considered the Bill a liberal one, calculated to promote settlement. Be thought the leases at 5 per

cent, should contain p. clauso providing for this conversion with freeholds on liberal terms. There should be clausa. The sentiment of desiring to acquire a freehold was deeply implanted in the minds of the people. The deferred payment system was a success on tfio West* Coast of" the North Island, and not one of the settlers bed repudiated, although they had given £5 or £S an acre. The land laws should offer inducements to capitalists as well as to men of cma 1 means. This was especially the_csee in rr s ard to settlement or the bush lands or the North Island. He would allow ary HOEtmaster to receive applications for land, me warmly supported the general principle of tho Bill, although all the details were not perfect. Mr Shbimski supported the idea of eleo live land Boards. The great fault of tho deferred payment eyetom was tho land being subjected to ouctio'n. He approved of thleasing proposals. He was astonished at members on the other fide of the House opposing Uioso provisions or the Bill at all. Mr Turnbull thought the fate of tho Bill had becQ settled by Sir John Hall’s and Air Weston’s speeches. He could not at all approve of the Bill, Ha condemned the Go yernznent for not taking a stand on such an important measure, and making it a Government one to stand or fall upon. He maintained that the whole of the success of the colony depended on the disposal of the land. The present measure would be detrimental to the colony at large, and prevent immigration generally. He warned the Government to! to deal with the lands in such a way as to injure the present or future generation. li this leasing system were introduced at all it

molt extend oxer the whole colony, and whero was the ooit of surrey to come from, and whet became of the security to the pub lie creditor (or the ten millions borrowed. He would let anyone have land and occupy it who would pay the oost r of survey—the land, however, remaining subject to such a land tax as would afford ample security to the public creditor. The sixteen million cores already sold in the colony had coat twelve millions of money to survey alone. He concluded at 12 40, and Mr Bsacekk moved the adjournment of the debate, and the House rose.