PARLIAMENTARY.

Globe, Volume XXIII, Issue 2300, 17 August 1881, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY.

[PRESS ASSOCIATION TELEGRAM,J LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, August 16. The Council mot at 2 30 p.m. The Hangitata Traffic Bridge Bill (Hon. W. Peter) was read a first time. The Hon. W. H. Reynolds gave notice to ask if the Government would appoint Board* to act as a medium between employers and those seeking employment. The Hon. P. Whitaker gave notice to introduce a Bill to amend the law relating to the practice and procedure of the Supreme Court. The Volunteer Bill was read a third time. The Licensing Bill we* then recommitted and several further amendments made, but none of importance. The Hon. H. J. Miller again moved tho rejection of the elective system, but it was rtslfirmed by 16 to 13. Division List—For tho elective system: Hons. Acland, Buckley, P. Chamberlain, Dignan, Fraser, Grace, Waterhouse, Williamson, Hart, Mantell, Martin, Menzie*, Ngatata, Pharazyn, Whitaker, Wilson.

For tho present system—Hons. Brett, G. Buckley, Lahmann, Nurse, Pollen, Robinson, Wood, Henderson, J. Johnston, Miller, Peter, Richmond, Wigley. Tho Bill was then ordered for the third reading on Thursday. Notice has been given for a further committal. Tho Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 16. The House met at 2 30 p.m. REPORTS. Tho report of tho public accounts committee was brought up on the pensions of Dr. Pollen, Messrs Gisborne, Domett, and Sir W. Fifzherbert, and on the question that it be considered on Thursday evening. The Hon, J. Hall said that this was the first Government had heard of the contents of tho report, and they could not be expected at once to say what they would do. Ho had, however, hoard enough to say that in all probability they would decide upon taking some action to bring a Bill in, and then tho whole question would bo brought forward for consideration by the House. On that understanding the proposal for the consideration of the report ou Thursday was withdrawn. The report of the local industries committee was tabled relative to tho growth of olives. On the suggestion of Sir G. Qbey the report was referred back to the committee to take further evidence on tho subject. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Bowen, The Hon. W. Rolleston said that Government considered the maintenance of botanical garden# devolved upon the local bodies so far as their being recreation grounds was concerned. Government, however, was of opinion that these gardens might be utilised for the cultivation of plants requisite for promoting local industries, as in the case of tho olive, and a vote would be brought down for that object. Replying to Mr Macandrew, Tho Hon. J. Hall said that, despite the recommendation of the waste lands committee, hia predecessor (Mr Oliver) refused the claims made by the Shag Point Coal Company. He would have the matter fully investigated, with the view of seeing what could bo done under the circumstances. Replying to Mr Bunny, Tho Hon. J. Hall said that Government would direct an independent inquiry to be made regarding the cause of the tram being thrown off the railway lino at Kaitoki. Replying to Mr Hurst, The Hon. T. Dick said that Government would re-offor tho bonus for the production of iron ore, subject to the condition mentioned. Replying to Mr Pitt, Tho Hon. W. Johnston said that Government would consider the propriety of providing for tho issue ot license# to vendors of tobacco and snuff, so a# to increase the revenue and prevent smuggling, and he had reason to believe that the vendors themselves were favorably disposed to such a step being taken. Replying to Mr McDonald, The Hon. T. Diok said that since the bonus of 1874 was offered to encourage tho development of crude oil products of the colony, kerosene had been discovered, and a company to work the same had been formed in Sydney. In that case. Government did no) consider it necessary to repeat the offer of a bonus. Replying to Mr Hurst, The Hon. J. Hall said that the question of assisting the Auckland Harbor Board to erect docks was a question which would have to be decided on its own merits, and without regard to what had been done in tho ease of Port Chalmers. In the latter case the grant consisted of a reserve, and if Auckland had a similar reserve, Government would ‘consider the propriety of handing it over to the Harbor Board for the purpose mentioned. Replying to Mr Speight, The Hon. J. Hall said if anything further were done in the reclamation work at Auckland the money would have to come out of the vote for roads and bridges provided for Auckland provincial district. Replying to Mr Mason, The Hon. J. Hall said the Government would be glad to facilitate the obtaining of passengers tickets at railway stations, which would be available at any time throughout the colony, but he was afraid the course suggested would open the door to frauds. HANGITATA BBIDQZ. Mr Wakefield asked whether they have any reports from tho engineers condemning the iron pile design for the repairs to the Rangitata bridge as unsuitable and impracticable, and, if so, what is the tenor of these reports ? (2) whether they are aware that the Ashburton County Council, to whom they have handed over the control of tho work, are persisting in that condemned design ? (3) whether they are aware that out of eight piles already attempted to bo driven, five have broken, and that the machinery has broken in tho attempt to withdraw the broken pile ? (4) whether they contemplate taking any steps to put a stop to this waste of public money ? The Hon. J. Hall replied by reading a lengthened report on the subject, and concluded by stating that he saw no reason whatever for interfering with the progress of the work. NEW BILL. On the motion of Mr Shephard, a Bill to Amend the Neglected and Criminal Children Act, 1867, wag introduced and read a first time, KBPSBSENTATION BILL. The debate on tho Representation Bill was resumed by Mr Lbvbstam, who spoke in opposition to the Bill. Its tendencies were altogether of a dangerous character, inasmuch as it proposed throwing a largo preponderancy of political power into the hand* of already powerful provinces in the South. He also complained of the great injustice proposed to be done to Nelson, and ho called upon the Northern members to combine with those of Nelson and Marlborough to have it thrown out. Mr Hutchison stated that he had very strong objections to the Bill. Instead of increasing tho representation he thought they could very well limit tho number already provided for. He denied that the Bill fulfilled the conditions ot representation on a population basis. He pointed out that Wanganui, with a population of 4000, was proposed to be given an equal representation with any one of the subdivisions of Wellington or Christchurch, with a population of 7000. Again, places like Timaru were treated on the town population basis ; and the Thames, with a much larger population resident in iho borough, was treated on the country population basis. Ho hoped that they would go into committee on the Bill, and that they would rise equal to the importance of the question. If they did so he was quite sure they would succeed in remedying many of the defects, and in that way produce at all events a workable measure.

Mr Rubseix contended that the Bill did not affirm any of the true principles of representation. He judged from what had fallen from the Government Benches, that the result of this motion would not be taken as a party question. Although voting against the Bill, ho wished it to be understood be had no intention of withdrawing his support from tho party with whom he usually acted. He argued that special Maori representation should be abolished, and the Maoris be included in tho population basis. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.80 REPRESENTATION Blli. Mr Bubseld resumed the debate. He argued that the Parliament was more a Board of Works than a legislative body, and as such they were bound to take into account the trade of the different districts as well ns population. In Hawke’s Bay and Westland they exported at the rate of £22 8j 3d per head, which was greatly in excess of any other district. Such being the case, he urged that they had a right to have special consideration in the matter of representation. The proposal as it stood, only gave them at the rate of one-sixteenth of the entire proposed representation, while they had a fifth of the exports. If population were the sole basis at Home, London would return more members than all Scotland put together. Then again, the excessive town representation was objectionable, inasmuch os that towns wstj largelymade up of middle men, and not of a reproductive class in the strict sense of the word. There were practically eight members for Wellington city at present at least, and who lived in it, and it was proposed to increase the number by one. In addition to that they had the Upper Chamber, which increased tha existing ropreeentation of Wellington to seventeen. In .that way the balance of power came to bo centred in the towns to the prejudice of the countay. In the matter of Maori representation, they had affirmed the principle of rating Native lands, and as such they were entitled to representation on the ordinary basis. The objection made re the King Natives had been removed, Tawhiao having now come in amongst them. His contention was that the Natives should be placed on the roll in the ordinary way. Tha North of Auckland contained a Native and white population of 27,627, and yet it returned only four members. The proportion of Natives was about two and a half of the population, and they ought to bo able to return at least one additional representative. Its advantages would be a tendency towards the consummation of the talked of unity of the two races. In token of the 1- , ability to exercise the franchise, he that some time ago in Napier tho were largely put upon the roll for tb* express puroose of defeating his election. The result, aowever, was that when it came to an election they took good care to acquaint themselves wish the true fftots of the case, and in pursuance thereof he polled at least three-fifths of those who had bean enrolled to vote against him. Mr Bunny said that the Wellington members had been threatened with the removal of the seat of government. That consideration would not weigh with them. They would neither be intimidated by it, or bribed by the offer of a direct steam service. He approved of the Bill, also of the population basis. They were there to represent population, and net landed estates. He was not at all afraid of the preponderance of representatives proposed for Canterbury and Otago. He would rather trust to the sympathy of Canterbury than the tender mercies of Auckland. The seat of Government was brought here for the convenience of the colony, and so long as that convenience existed the seat of Government would remain in Wellington. He approved of the single seat proposal. The sympathy pretended for the Natives was quite transparent. It meant that five more members should be got for the northern parts of the North Island, and the Maori members be dropped out. They would most assuredly resent such a proposal, and he hoped sincerely that the motion would be carried, and the Bill get through committee with very trifling alterations indeed.

Mr Tawhai, could not consent to forego the special representation, ei it was a right conferred on them by the treaty of Waitangi, and he defended the right of Maori members to vote as they might see fit on this and other matters.

Mr Ballancs said no one desired to exclude the Natives from the representation. If a radical change was to be made in the representation, then they must be prepared to give up the special representation. If the special representation was not abandoned, then they could not. apply the population basis. The injustice of the Bill, then, was to the European population and not to the Maoris. Its advantages to the Natives would be that they would be enabled to exercise a more diffused influence on the elections as a whole. In that case they would have a large number of European members more or less closely identified with the Maoris, and to that extent prepared to advocate their interests. Population, ho contended, was the only fair basis of representation. If they took the districts, then it might appear unfair, but if they took the provincial districts they would find that the proposal was pretty equitable as a whole. The preponderance in favour of the South created no real alarm in his mind, as they never found these districts united upon any one subject. They would find in the future, as they had in the past, one portion would vote on the one side and the other portion on the other. The number of 91 was not a question of principle but purely one of expediency. He did not think it was an undue increase as compared with the irsrease of population. He disagreed with the suggestion that the proposals of the Bill would be a salutary lesson to the Natives. Hie opinion was that the Natives were even more loyal than the Europeans. If enquired into, be believed that all their troubles originated with the Europeans rather than the Natives. He thought there should be no difference made as between the towns and country. He always found that towns wore prepared to conserve the interests of the country. The cutting up a property and the location of people on the land was one of the features developed by the proposals of this Bill, and ho asked Nelson to take that fact into account. He defended Sir G. Grey against the imputations made by Sir W. Fox, alleging that the anxiety of the latter and his friends for the introduction of responsible Government was to enable them to secure large landed estates on a secure tenure. In that they had succeeded, and but for the action of Sir G. Grey they would have succeeded even better than they had done. Ho denied that equal electoral rights had not a tendency towards ameliorating the social condition of the masses. The contention that representation should be given in accordance with productive power was quite as fallacious as the argument that population, as in the case of large cities, would swamp all the other electorates. Ho defended the Grey Government for having called so many members to the Upper House. When they got into power they found that it was absolutely necessary to neutralise the Conservative element that then existed in that Chamber. The Bill as it stood would tend to build up the colony and make it a united whole, and for the same reason he would support the motion. Mr Tomoana said the Bill would have an evil effect upon the Native population, and he suggested that it should bo postponed until they had an opportunity for consulting their constituents on the subject. Mr Sbddon denounced the Bill as a most vicious measure, and argued that it was basep on conservative principles. Ho denied that population was the only sound basis. He urged the case of the goldfields in evidence of his contention. Another cause of complaint was that in the districts proposed there was a want of identity of interest, consequently it would be utterly impossible to expect that substantial justice would be done these electorates in all their parts. The proportion as laid down did not affect his case personally, still in justice to the colony at large he could not support the Bill. Mr Bastings protested against the Bill, inasmuch as it wiped out Waikaia, the district he represented. It had increased rapidly in population, and was now one of the most important agricultural districts in Otago. IE the arrangement of these districts had been left to the Surveyor-General, he believed much more satisfaction would have been obtained. He denied that the towns were in the habit of conservating the interests of the country districts. The town basis was not so high as it should be. He had done all he could to prevent the iujustice proposed to his district. Still he would [vote for the Bill, reserving to himself in committee the right to endeavour to get the Waikaia district inserted. Mr Reeves insisted that the mining centres ought to have more consideration than that proposed by the Bill. The population might be at a low ebb to-day, and a very different state of matters existent to-morrow. Before another Representation Bill could be passed he was sure the district he represented would have at least doubled in population. The representation given to the towns was out of all proportion to that proposed for tincountry districts. The proposal, as it stood, suited him individually, but still ho was bound to vote against the bill. Mr Shbimsei would vote for the second reading, but in committee try and|alter it as ■: I affected his district. /

Mr Bsown alio complained of the injustice proposed to bis district, and asked the Government to revert to its previous proposal*. He would vote for the second reading, believing that the Bill a* a whole was one which reflected credit on the Government. 2 Mr Andrews considered the Bill was an improvement on the system at present in operation. He would vote for the second reading, but in committee he would support any movement to place the Maoris on the same footing as the Europeans. Hon. J. Hall said that while objections had been stated to the population basis, no one had ventured to say what should have been accepted as their guiding star. He denied that the increase of population in certain districts was duo to the unfair expenditure of public money. The secret of their increased population was their natural adaptability for settlement. It was objected that certain provincial districts had got a largo increase of representation. This was not given to them as provincial districts, but as integral parts of the colony. He denied that an undue preference had been given to party. When the question wag one of duty to the party and to the country, duty to the latter prevailed. So far as an expression had been given the Bill was acceptable to the country, and that was a fair criterion of its intrinsic merits. The House divided on the question of the second reading—Ayes, 49 ; nces, 16. The following is the division list:— Ayes, 49—Messrs. Allwright, Andraw*, Bain, Ballanoe, Bastings, Beetham, Bowcn v Brandon, Brown, Bryce, Bunny, DeLautour, Dick, Fisher, J. B. (B’.n.lt’ Fisher, J. T. (Efeathcote), Fulto* - q.-, A' Grey, Messrs. Ball, Hirst, ** fvp a ii aee %' Hutchison, Johnston. Ke'd _ Macandrew. Mason, McLean. M o ntgom; ery> Murray, Oliver. Ofond, nar d Boni Eolleston, Saunders, Seymour, w a4n fcs, gp lr £ rnt y i Stevens, Stndnoime, “ atton, Swanson, Thomson, Trimble, v ’ £,, ..aker, Wood, Wright. Noes, 16—Messrs. Oolline, George, Gibbs, Gisborne, Harris, Hurst, W. J. (City of Auckland West), Hursthouse, Levestam, Lundon, Moss, Pitt, Beeves, Seddon, Sheehan, Shephard, Weston. Pairs: Ayes—Messrs. Atkinson, Finn, Moorhouse, Turnbull, Jones, Kenny, Sir W. Fox, Messrs. Barron, Wakefield. Noes—Messrs. Taiaroa, Hamlin, To mo ana, Reid, Speight, Wallis, Bussell, Te Wheoro, Tole. ’ The Bill was ordered to be 'committed to-morrow. MtMcLban moved tha suspension of the Standing Orders, to enable certain petitions not strictly in order being received. The Hon. J. Halt,, as an instance of the necessity for adhering to the Standing Orders, mentioned having received a petition from Oamaru representing that the petitioners wanted employment, and their wives and children were starving. On inquiry he found that the signatures were those of well-to-do Oamaru settlers. These had been cut off another petition and stuck on to this one. _ The motion was agreed to, and several petitions were then presented. Mr gave notice of amendment to bo moved by him on going into committee on the Representation Bill. The House rose at 12 o’clock.